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[VisceralBowl]

That whole scene was a giant WTF for me. I have issues with the point of this movie, but the film making was impeccable throughout.

It felt really rushed.

1) Where were they going? I think a space port maybe?

Yes. It says they were heading "off world" two or three times iirc. They get clearance from the space port as well.

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed this movie. The only thing I didn't really like were the undercooked Replicant uprising group.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

For those whose opinion is that Joi's love for K was fake all along, how do you explain the moment where K was unconscious and she struggles to him wake up ?

 

[Zakalwe]

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed this movie. The only thing I didn't really like were the undercooked Replicant uprising group.

The uprising was supposed to be in the background. Remember this is a slice-of-life style tale told from the perspective of the characters. They're being swept along by these great events, but the events themselves aren't the focus.

Much like the only glimpse we've had off off-world is via Roy's poetry, the adverts floating throughout the city, the brief mentions by characters. The greater events in BR, the true scope of the universe, all of this has been kept from the viewers eyes.

That's why these stories are so special, imo. They're incredibly personal and human tales set against the backdrop of a turning point in history.

 

[Sanjuro]

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed this movie. The only thing I didn't really like were the undercooked Replicant uprising group.

The more I thought about this, I thought how much of the world's politics were undercooked in general. In the end I didn't think it was such a bad thing.

 

[Sanjuro]

For those whose opinion is that Joi's love for K was fake all along, how do you explain the moment where K was unconscious and she struggles to wake up him?

Wake up! Your credit card did not approve your last in-app purchase.

 

[More_Badass]

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed this movie. The only thing I didn't really like were the undercooked Replicant uprising group.

I think you’re looking at it from the wrong perspective

If the finale was some big uprising battle or something like that, I’d agree. Just introduce this out of nowhere and suddenly it’s this big important part of the plot

But it’s not. The uprising is as much a part of the background as the sea wall or the off-world colonies, just one thread of the tapestry that forms the world-building backdrop. Just something that K learns about and then moves on; we don’t know about it until he does and then he moves on with his own goals and purpose, and so does the plot.

 

[Zakalwe]

The key scene that speaks of Joi's consciousness is when she tells the sex worker replicant to get out.

She was clearly upset, jealous, angry. Dealing with emotions that had no place in pleasing her owner. K wasn't even there to be performed to.

Debates about the extent of her agency are valid, but the fact she was genuinely feeling and conscious of these feelings aren't imo.

 

[kirblar]

I think you’re looking at it from the wrong perspective

I’d say the finale was some big uprising battle or something like that, I’d argue. Just introduce this out of nowhere and suddently it’s this big important part of the plot

But it’s not. The uprising is as much a part of the background as the sea wall or the off-world colonies. Just something that K learns about and then moves on; we don’t know about it until he does and he moves on with his own goals and purpose, and so does the plot.

It was a very Hunter X Hunter-esque narrative move

 

[taybul]

That whole scene was a giant WTF for me. I have issues with the point of this movie, but the film making was impeccable throughout.

It felt really rushed.

1) Where were they going? I think a space port maybe?
2) Why wasn't Leto there? Was he never really on earth? It probably doesn't matter, but as an audience member I would have liked some explenation. It felt like he wasn't there to keep him alive in case there was a sequel.
3) The entire dog fight sequence was weird and needless. Like, these things have missiles on them? But no defenses? Why didn't he use those in San Diego? It was real dumb. He should have just crashed his spinner into theirs and then fought from there.
4) The fight choreography wasn't good. They should have set this fight somewhere else. They didn't play with the waves much at all and the interior fight was far too constrained. It's odd because the Batista fight was fantastic earlier int he movie and the Deckard fight was visually interesting.

That was the one bit of film making in the movie that I thought was just sort of blah.

Also I found it weird that Deckard was kind of just sitting there most of the time. Didn't really struggle until he was neck deep in water. You're in a cruiser with the door wide open on rocky waters, surely this thing won't sink, right?

 

[Zakalwe]

Also I found it weird that Deckard was kind of just sitting there most of the time. Didn't really struggle until he was neck deep in water. You're in a cruiser with the door wide open on rocky waters, surely this thing won't sink, right?

Survival instinct kicking in at the last moment?

He seemed pretty exhausted/defeated prior to this.

 

[BorkBork]

The more I thought about this, I thought how much of the world's politics were undercooked in general. In the end I didn't think it was such a bad thing.

That's Blade Runner for you. The world extends beyond the immediate characters and stories that are told. We never see the Tennhauser gates. I have no clue what the off-worlds look like, or why Las Vegas is a radioactive wasteland. That's ok.

I actually hate it when some creators try to flesh out their world too much. Then seams start showing and the whole thing breaks down, distracting me from the actual stories and characters I'm supposed to care about.

I personally don't want to watch any of the shorts. It's enough to know that there was a blackout. That things were lost and remade. That the world never quite recovered. That another blackout might be looming as history repeats itself.

 

[tonysidaway]

Tyrell should have been able to afford a real owl! It was probably by choice given how much he likes all things artificial.

Owls are extinct, at least in the novel. Spoilers for the novel follow.

Spoiler

Rachael Rosen attempts to pass the owl off as real, the fruit of an intensive search of surviving Canadian forests, and offers it to Rick as a bribe. He accepts at first, but then deduces that the owl is a clever fake and Rachael is an android. In the novel he's a very astute detective and this is what saves his life in numerous encounters with androids.

 

[Sanjuro]

That's Blade Runner for you. The world extends beyond the immediate characters and stories that are told. We never see the Tennhauser gates. I have no clue what the off-worlds look like, or why Las Vegas is a radioactive wasteland. That's ok.

I actually hate it when some creators try to flesh out their world too much. Then seams start showing and the whole thing breaks down, distracting me from the actual stories and characters I'm supposed to care about.

I personally don't want to watch any of the shorts. It's enough to know that there was a blackout. That things were lost and remade. That the world never quite recovered. That another blackout might be looming as history repeats itself.

I watched the short after the film. The only one really worth watching is the third one with Bautista, as his character was probably one of the more interesting in the film.

The first one was some anime trash. The second focuses on Letos character, and doesn't tell me anything new.

 

[Darth Pinche]

Yes I am absolutely buying the bluray for the director's commentary and making of stuff.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This was the first movie I used mine on.

Movie pass just came.

:333333333333

 

[Zakalwe]

I watched the short after the film. The only one really worth watching is the third one with Bautista, as his character was probably one of the more interesting in the film.

The first one was some anime trash. The second focuses on Letos character, and doesn't tell me anything new.

The Wallace short shows us just how desperate the politicians were to accommodate his ego and the dangers of using replicants. They needed his tech, despite knowing it would probably doom them.

 

[tonysidaway]

The key scene that speaks of Joi's consciousness is when she tells the sex worker replicant to get out.

She was clearly upset, jealous, angry.

I didn't notice that, although I looked for it in the second viewing. I saw her mood as suspicion of Mariette's motives in examining the horse carving. It's when Mariette handles it and says something like "from a tree" that you hear Joi's ringtone. By that time Mariette, an android revolutionary with instructions to find out more about K, the killer of Sapper, has already placed a tracking device in his jacket.

 

[Sanjuro]

Movie pass just came.

:333333333333

Boomshakalaka

The Wallace short shows us just how desperate the politicians were to accommodate his ego and the dangers of using replicants. They needed his tech, despite knowing it would probably doom them.

It just didn't work for me. The film itself gives you the notion that people of power will continue to do as they wish. Even the first film alone does this.

It's not dreadful or anything though.

 

[Zakalwe]

I didn't notice that, although I looked for it in the second viewing. I saw her mood as suspicion of Mariette's motives in examining the horse carving. It's when Mariette handles it and says something like "from a tree" that you hear Joi's ringtone. By that time Mariette, an android revolutionary with instructions to find out more about K, the killer of Sapper, has already placed a tracking device in his jacket.

She's clearly upset in that scene, there's a tone of anger in her voice that showed her resentment toward the replicant.

At least imo.

 

[Razorback]

I think you’re looking at it from the wrong perspective

If the finale was some big uprising battle or something like that, I’d agree. Just introduce this out of nowhere and suddenly it’s this big important part of the plot

But it’s not. The uprising is as much a part of the background as the sea wall or the off-world colonies, just one thread of the tapestry that forms the world-building backdrop. Just something that K learns about and then moves on; we don’t know about it until he does and then he moves on with his own goals and purpose, and so does the plot.

I think the problem with that scene is the way it was staged. All those people coming out of hiding on cue with the speech of the one eyed lady. That's the one scene I felt was out of place. Like it belonged to an inferior movie.

 

[Zakalwe]

Boomshakalaka



It just didn't work for me. The film itself gives you the notion that people of power will continue to do as they wish. Even the first film alone does this.

It's not dreadful or anything though.

The people in power are not the politicians. The megacorps are the power, and the council seems to have had some kind of sway over them via regulations since the blackout and banning of replicant tech.

Now the world is falling apart, the sea is almost swallowing the city, space is getting smaller, recources dwindling, they /need/ the tech again and that means handing total power back to the corporations.

It's an important short, imo, goes beyond Wallace's performance.

 

[Sanjuro]

The people in power are not the politicians. The megacorps are the power, and the council seems to have had some kind of sway over them via regulations since the blackout and banning of replicant tech.

Now the world is falling apart, the sea is almost swallowing the city, space is getting smaller, recources dwindling, they /need/ the tech again and that means handing total power back to the corporations.

It's an important short, imo, goes beyond Wallace's performance.

The opening of the film already tells you this.

 

[Zakalwe]

The opening of the film already tells you this.

Sure, but you see the desperation of the council here /and/ Wallace's disregard for them in play.

None of the shorts are essential, but they all flesh out the film in meaningful ways.

 

[JB1981]

Whose eye is it opening the film ya think

 

[Sanjuro]

Whose eye is it opening the film ya think

Tim Allen's.

 

[Zakalwe]

Whose eye is it opening the film ya think

Ana's maybe, showing a link to K's memories? When we see K he seems to be sleeping or lost in thought.

 

[BorkBork]

I think the problem with that scene is the way it was staged. All those people coming out of hiding on cue with the speech of the one eyed lady. That's the one scene I felt was out of place. Like it belonged to an inferior movie.

The scene is pretty necessary and conveys a lot of information. I'm not sure how to film it differently.

 

[tonysidaway]

She's clearly upset in that scene, there's a tone of anger in her voice that showed her resentment toward the replicant.

At least imo.

I'm not particularly good at distinguishing emotions in others, so I'll tend rely on your judgement more than my own in this. I'm surprised and pleased that watching this film is turning out to be a good workout for my emotional intelligence.

 

[Sunster]

just bought the soundtrack on iTunes. perfect to listen to on the bus.

 

[tonysidaway]

The scene is pretty necessary though. I'm not sure how to film it differently.

It looked odd on the second viewing, perhaps because I'd seen it criticised here. On the first viewing the power of the interaction between Joe and Freysa was my main focus. Ryan Gosling is a new name to me, I can see I have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm not particularly good at distinguishing emotions in others, so I'll tend rely on your judgement more than my own in this. I'm surprised and pleased that watching this film is turning out to be a good workout for my emotional intelligence.

Bear in mind, this is only what I gathered from my initial view. I need to see it again to clarify my thoughts.

It looked odd on the second viewing, perhaps because I'd seen it criticised here. On the first viewing the power of the interaction between Joe and Freysa was my main focus. Ryan Gosling is a new name to me, I can see I have a lot of catching up to do.

See Drive asap!

 

[More_Badass]

It looked odd on the second viewing, perhaps because I'd seen it criticised here. On the first viewing the power of the interaction between Joe and Freysa was my main focus. Ryan Gosling is a new name to me, I can see I have a lot of catching up to do.

Go watch Drive

 

[Bucket Mouse]

Anyone else think the idea of the Joi sex scene was taken right from the movie Her?

As I said a few pages ago, it reminded me of this:

https://youtu.be/0FdGaamBXVg

 

[hendersonhank]

1) They’re genetically enhanced beings.

Sure. But the way you can "genetically" be stronger than other people is by having denser bones, bigger muscles, different muscle/tendon attachments, etc. Stuff that's easy to see even WITHOUT scans. A 120lb woman can't magically be able to throw guys through walls unless she's a Marvel comics heroine.

2) That’s exactly what she did. That’s why those memories were the most powerful and effecting, because she based them in reality and her actual experiences and emotions

She said there's always a little of the artist in the work. This is a completely intact memory of hers, whole, and one that is obviously very meaningful to her. Why would she put it in somebody else?

5) Radioactive doesn’t mean instantly deadly, like a video game. People have lived in Chernobyl’s exclusion zone for decades

Yeah, so why is Deckard the only person on earth with any interest in living there? Seems like an infinitely better life than living in the junkyard like those other guys.

6) Megacorps that basically control humanity’s survival have nothing to fear from local authorities

Then why was Love sneaking around in the first place? Why did she have to lie to Wallace about Madam attacking her first?

7) The design behind reproduction was lost with Tyrell’s death and the blackout. It’s not a simple thing

The replicants are so indistinguishable from human beings on every level that there's only like one way to identify them, by their right eyeball. Why would their wombs be the one difference? Just kind of silly imo.

The blackout ruined Tyrells and the local governemnts records.

I thought the blackout was only LA. It was just one nuke over LA, why would it wipe out all records for the entire US/world?
[/QUOTE]


I would think the rebels would be all for Wallace. He wants to give them the ability to reproduce. That would, as Madam said, change the whole world. Replicants would multiply and would have more reason than ever to rebel.

 

[Adry9]

The key scene that speaks of Joi's consciousness is when she tells the sex worker replicant to get out.

She was clearly upset, jealous, angry. Dealing with emotions that had no place in pleasing her owner. K wasn't even there to be performed to.

Debates about the extent of her agency are valid, but the fact she was genuinely feeling and conscious of these feelings aren't imo.

Yup. Said it some pages back, can't believe it's still flying over so many people's heads.

 

[Razorback]

The scene is pretty necessary and conveys a lot of information. I'm not sure how to film it differently.

Just don't have all the Zion folk pop out like that. Keep it classy.

 

[More_Badass]

I would think the rebels would be all for Wallace. He wants to give them the ability to reproduce. That would, as Madam said, change the whole world. Replicants would multiply and would have more reason than ever to rebel.

It's not change if it's just another layer of control and subjugation, which it would absolutely be under Wallace.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Joi could have been programmed to show care and concern to safeguard the customer’s safety. Hence her becoming suspicious of the replicant being nosy and trying to wake K up from the car crash.

I think the point of her character is, does it matter if it’s programming or not? This is also speculated by Wallace if Rachel was designed to seduce Deckard and breed eith him.

 

[Zakalwe]

Sure. But the way you can "genetically" be stronger than other people is by having denser bones, bigger muscles, different muscle/tendon attachments, etc. Stuff that's easy to see even WITHOUT scans. A 120lb woman can't magically be able to throw guys through walls unless she's a Marvel comics heroine.

Again, the tech "how" is really relevant. This is science fiction, in BR's universe they've found a way to develop these futuristic beings in a way that makes them indistinguishable from humans (VK required) yet superior in many ways.

Like space travel, teleportation, magic, whatever... these things are all a little ridiculous when singled out. What's important is the rules the universe establishes regarding them and how consistent it is sticking to those rules that makes it seem believable.

She said there's always a little of the artist in the work. This is a completely intact memory of hers, whole, and one that is obviously very meaningful to her. Why would she put it in somebody else?

I guess she sometimes used whole memories, perhaps the key to her work is creating a bunch of false memories but interspersing them with entire scenes of her own, maybe that's what makes her memory packages so special.

Yeah, so why is Deckard the only person on earth with any interest in living there? Seems like an infinitely better life than living in the junkyard like those other guys.[/auote]

1. Radioactive. Even if safe it would put many people off.
2. Cities happen naturally in society for a reason.
3. Resources: all we saw in the desert were a few beehives and an abundance of alcohol. We know the bees must be replicant tech, which is expensive, and Deckard must have stumbled on it, stolen it, whatever. Point being, it's a hostile, barren environment without the resources of a city.

Then why was Love sneaking around in the first place? Why did she have to lie to Wallace about Madam attacking her first?

Wallace gave her orders, but she also had autonomy. She was probably directed to find out information but be quiet about it, yet she clearly developed psychotic tendencies as the film progressed.

She seemed to be struggling with her emotions: she clearly enjoyed killing but it upset her deeply. She was desperate to show Wallace how important she was, she looked down on everyone as inferior.

She was a psychopath.

The replicants are so indistinguishable from human beings on every level that there's only like one way to identify them, by their right eyeball. Why would their wombs be the one difference? Just kind of silly imo.

The womb wouldn't be the one difference. They have everything essential for the body to function, or appear to function, as a human.

Following the established rules in the film regarding the VK test, we can asssume they have all the parts but many of them are just for show.

I thought the blackout was only LA. It was just one nuke over LA, why would it wipe out all records for the entire US/world?

The world is shrinking. Rescources are dwindling, sea is swallowing landmass, people are huddling together.

It's not a stretch to assume all the record centres were in one place.

Saying that, I'm not entirely sure of the scope of the blackout myself. I still need to watch that short...

I would think the rebels would be all for Wallace. He wants to give them the ability to reproduce. That would, as Madam said, change the whole world. Replicants would multiply and would have more reason than ever to rebel.

Wallce is blind in more ways than just his eyes.

Plus they would never champion the slaver.

Joi could have been programmed to show care and concern to safeguard the customer's safety. Hence her becoming suspicious of the replicant being nosy and trying to wake K up from the car crash.

I think the point of her character is, does it matter if it's programming or not? This is also speculated by Wallace if Rachel was designed to seduce Deckard and breed eith him.

From what I remember she was displaying very clear emotions in that scene that were utterly unnecessary in regards to her core programming.

Jealousy, anger, resentment. And, as I said above, K wasn't even in the room to benefit from the performance.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Also I found it weird that Deckard was kind of just sitting there most of the time. Didn't really struggle until he was neck deep in water. You're in a cruiser with the door wide open on rocky waters, surely this thing won't sink, right?

I was actively looking at this when I watched it, and he did try, but his handcuffs seemed to be tethered to the floor.

 

[BorkBork]

Just don't have all the Zion folk pop out like that. Keep it classy.

That's fair. I didn't even think to have an issue with it.

 

[7Th]

So Denis Villeneuve is totally getting referenced in Ready Player Two, right?

 

[Zakalwe]

I was actively looking at this when I watched it, and he did try, but his handcuffs seemed to be tethered to the floor.

Yep, he tried a bit then gave up when he saw how secure it was, then survival instinct kicked in and he broke free.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Just don't have all the Zion folk pop out like that. Keep it classy.

I think it’s fine. It’s a reveal. Not revealing some big twist or other plot thread they want to pursue. But K has been alone and desperate for a connection his whole life. And the dramatic scene there is to show that he isn’t alone and that there are many others like him and that he potentially has found a people he belongs with instead of living and working among those who spit on him for being a skinjob. I think the dramatic entrance worked on an emotional level for K.

 

[robotrock]

So Denis Villeneuve is totally getting referenced in Ready Player Two, right?

abso lutely

 

[Nerokis]

One thing I appreciate about this movie is that it got me thinking about the political nature of love. K was alienated for not being quite human in some sense or another, but allowed himself to fall in love with a digital program, Joi. He decided to believe Joi when she claimed to have thoughts and emotions; decided that his love was sufficient unto itself, requiring no external or "objective" validation, because how we experience something predominates how we view or define that something. This was a rebellious political statement: it rejected the standards society applied to him, and recontextualized them. I sense a bit of this in all the little moments when K rejects "more real" girls: is cold to the prostitutes, hesitates when asked whether he wouldn't prefer to pursue Joshi's companionship, seems apprehensive on principle about following through with Joi's threesome idea ("You're real to me").

Seriously, the more I think about it, the more important the K and Joi relationship seems. Such an expansive addition to the franchise; moreso than Las Vegas, the charming little farm, the introduction of sunlight, or whatever else.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

what I remember she was displaying very clear emotions in that scene that were utterly unnecessary in regards to her core programming.

Jealousy, anger, resentment. And, as I said above, K wasn't even in the room to benefit from the performance.

She could be programmed to always perform even when the owner isnt around to maintain the character. Be hostile towards suspicious individuals, but stay in character. Do not go “Intruder. Leave the premises immediately. Your services have been rendered unnecessary.”

She could be behaving off a learning algorithm. But the question is, does that make her less real? Is her relationship with K more real than another Joi’s relationship with a poor lonely Joe living upstairs? Does it matter what the source of her emotions is? If they’re generated from a learning algorthm or if they come from an ethereal and nebulous “soul?” If she behaves indistinguishably from a real human who was born and has a “soul” then does it matter? K doesnt have a soul according to his handler and he wasnt born. Yet we percieved him as being special and more capable of emotions than models of his same kind because we believed he was the miracle child. When that delusion is shattered, is he less human in our eyes?

 

[Sanctuary]

Saw this yesterday, and while I thought it was a slight improvement over the first film, it's not something I think I'll ever need to rewatch. I'm also not sure if it was simply the projector or intentionally filmed this way, but too many of the scenes were either super murky, or simply had a lot of black crushing going on. Arrival had a similar look to it, but it wasn't nearly as hard to see the details as it was in this film.

Also, I find it odd that there are so many "unanswered questions" articles out there, and one of the questions is asking how they brought back the younger Rachael for the replicant scene, even suggesting that it was Sean Young.

Right away I noticed how she didn't look exactly the same, and the up close sealed it for me that it wasn't even the same actress. I don't know if they simply digitized Sean Young's face on top of the current actress or used prosthetics, but you could tell it wasn't the same actress at all when they zoomed in on her face.

 

[radios shipping overview]

K doesnt have a soul according to his handler and he wasnt born. Yet we percieved him as being special and more capable of emotions than models of his same kind because we believed he was the miracle child. When that delusion is shattered, is he less human in our eyes?

Thanks for bringing up this point. I hadn't quite put the parallel together on my own (K's hopes of being special and whether Joi can be perceived as special). They are twin litmus tests and two takes on the same question, illustrated via different means. I imagine the end of the movie would be crushing for somebody who decided that one or both K and Joi are just factory products and not capable of experiencing life.

Oh, and of course, the question is asked a third time when Wallace tries to disillusion Deckard about Rachael.