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[EmCeeGramr]

The art is Bland, not the game. Mixed up. The game look fun sure, but I dont think I could play through a another Generic Diablo clone. There no twist, and worst of all, you dont even pick up gold without clicking on it.

Alright, now this is just word salad. I'm not even sure what's wrong with the last part. You can pick up gold by either walking over to it like old games or clicking on it no matter where you're standing. Why is that a problem?

Not even touching "Generic Diablo clone" because where does one even start with that.

 

[HK-47]

Seems like there are a couple people who just got banned now, from another thread or something?

Seems to be people bad talking Valve...I dunno. I thought it was pretty civil in here until the color argument reared its ugly head.

 

[Alex]

I have no problem with vibrant or cartoony games, I think Deepholm in the Cataclysm beta is the most gorgeous area I've ever seen in a video game, for my tastes. Still a bit taken aback by how far they pushed that old clunker of an engine.

Shit tons of the games I love are cartoony , actually.

But Titan Quest and the outdoorsy parts I've seen of Diablo III are hardly what I'd call lacking in palette. Diablo III seems to have variety as a strong point, as I saw more than a few areas built around the same gothicy style of the first two, I could understand that, I think it'd be a silly complaint, but I'd at least understand it!

Torchlight and it's sequel look very great for their light specs though. I was especially happy to see the weather and arctic look environments in the trailer/promo art.

 

[flarkminator]

I just listened to Runic director on the Just press Start podcast.
They use two different art style to pop out characters. The Background is painted while the characted are ala Dragon Lair/Comic Book. This work really well. Diablo 3 just seem that everything fade in. Even the Bright stuff seem to fade in the background.

There are a lot of ways to make things pop. Lighting, silhouette, color...

Just, just don't say that D3 is "browny". It's a very bad word to use. It reminds me of the days when on GAF all we read were, "I unno it's just too next-gen, lol". [Rolls eyes so hard they explode]

 

[Rubius]

You do realize that tons of Diablo fans were calling Diablo III "WoW art" and "too bright and colorful" right? I don't agree, but it's definitely somewhere in between Warcraft and Diablo in terms of color and character design. It's definitely brighter than the first two games, and the colors from attacks were popping out like hell in the videos you posted.

Oh I do realise that, but fans critique everything. I mean, Starcraft 2 look bright and colorfull. Why not make Diablo 3 like that.
Blue look like Blue. Red is Red. Brown Dark is Brown Dark. Brown Darker is Brown Darker. Diablo 3 is just too fade. Every color seem to mix with the next one.

 

[Loxley]

So is this the first time we've had an situation that actually (relatively) warranted people trying to chose a side between Valve or Blizzard? Funny how quickly people will chose a side whereas any other day Blizzard and Valve are held in the same high regard.

I see where Pardo is coming from, but good lord the Blizzard haters around here are trying almost too hard to shit on him.

*edit

Oh, I see we're arguing about color again. I'll just see myself out....

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Oh I do realise that, but fans critique everything. I mean, Starcraft 2 look bright and colorfull. Why not make Diablo 3 like that.
Blue look like Blue. Red is Red. Brown Dark is Brown Dark. Brown Darker is Brown Darker. Diablo 3 is just too fade. Every color seem to mix with the next one.

See, this is what you're not getting. Everyone else here is looking at Diablo III and seeing something totally different from what you're seeing.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

Jesus, why must everything be trademarked?

 

[Narag]

Oh I do realise that, but fans critique everything. I mean, Starcraft 2 look bright and colorfull. Why not make Diablo 3 like that.
Blue look like Blue. Red is Red. Brown Dark is Brown Dark. Brown Darker is Brown Darker. Diablo 3 is just too fade. Every color seem to mix with the next one.

SC2 is like that by necessity, no? It'd be unplayable with darker units not so easily distinguishable. I assume it'd matter far less if you just had one marine to march around.

 

[Oni Link 666]

It is kind of messed up for Valve to trademark the name of a Warcraft III mod that has the name of Warcraft characters (the Ancients) in it and make a game with characters that look very similar to Warcraft lore characters (namely Sylvanas and Mannaroth), but yeah, they should have trademarked it themselves if they wanted to make DOTA games.

 

[Rubius]

So is this the first time we've had an situation that actually (relatively) warranted people trying to chose a side between Valve or Blizzard? Funny how quickly people will chose a side whereas any other day Blizzard and Valve are held in the same high regard.

I see where Pardo is coming from, but good lord the Blizzard haters around here are trying almost too hard to shit on him.

I just bought Starcraft 1, and will replay Diablo 1. All I want is Diablo 3 to be Diablo 3 and not Diablo 2 HD. Its one of my favorite franchise, and I dont want it to suck.

 

[Recon]

So is this the first time we've had an situation that actually (relatively) warranted people trying to chose a side between Valve or Blizzard? Funny how quickly people will chose a side whereas any other day Blizzard and Valve are held in the same high regard.

I see where Pardo is coming from, but good lord the Blizzard haters around here are trying almost too hard to shit on him.

I dont see how saying Valve didnt do anything wrong is hating on Blizzard. I havent seen much, if any Blizzard hate, mostly shitting on Kotick. Honestly, i think Blizzard and Valve are two of the most highly praised developers on this board.

 

[mavs]

"To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and Warcraft III community and that just doesn't seem the right thing to do," said Pardo, Blizzard's executive vice president of game design.

Does Blizzard have a community anymore? Maybe instead of worrying about what modders can name their projects they should think about how to make lightning strike twice with SC2 UGC.

 

[Rubius]

See, this is what you're not getting. Everyone else here is looking at Diablo III and seeing something totally different from what you're seeing.

I dont know. Maybe I'm too high standard or maybe because I just played Torchlight, but it just feel Bleh.
Anyway, have to go sleep. Sorry for the whole Brown debate.
For my last word, Steam support a guy who want to make a game of his own. Blizzard is just sad that people who played Warcraft 3 only for Dota, wont come back on SC2 for Dota SC and spend 50$, instead of going on Steam and getting exactly what they want for 15$

 

[Teknopathetic]

"It is kind of messed up for Valve to trademark the name of a Warcraft III mod that has the name of Warcraft characters (the Ancients) in it"


They aren't trademarking "Defense of the Ancients."

 

[Alex]

I just bought Starcraft 1, and will replay Diablo 1. All I want is Diablo 3 to be Diablo 3 and not Diablo 2 HD. Its one of my favorite franchise, and I dont want it to suck.

It's one of your favorite franchises, but you hate the art, didn't plan to buy it, and think that Torchlight, a complete mold and homage of the original Diablo is the way to go while Diablo III, which doesn't look anything like a simple Diablo HD, seems too samey.

You confuse me, guy.

 

[Boonoo]

Yeah if you look at their press releases they're calling their game Dota (as a word) not DOTA (an acronym).

 

[Instro]

"It is kind of messed up for Valve to trademark the name of a Warcraft III mod that has the name of Warcraft characters (the Ancients) in it"


They aren't trademarking "Defense of the Ancients."

Good thing they didnt, now we can guess at what DotA actually stands for...Dongs of the Ancients maybe?

 

[les papillons sexuels]

DOTA was made in Blizzard's map editor for Blizzard's game. It was created by some guy with no affiliation with Valve, and has been modified and updated by a good chunk of people who (again) have nothing to do with Valve. DOTA has been played for many years now in Blizzard games, and by millions of people. And then all of a sudden Valve decides that they should own the rights to it.

The only think that stinks of Bobby here is Valve.

cry me a river, valve did the same thing with Team Fortress, the original quake mod, they hired the development team and pushed it to greater heights then could've ever been accomplished on it's own, valve will do the same with dota.

 

[Alex]

Can call it whatever they want, long as they sell it in a 4 pack.

 

[Rubius]

It's one of your favorite franchises, but you hate the art, didn't plan to buy it, and think that Torchlight, a complete mold and homage of the original Diablo is the way to go while Diablo III, which doesn't look anything like a simple Diablo HD, seems too samey.

You confuse me, guy.

Diablo 1 changed my view on the video game. When I first played the game at the library, I asked the girl "What is this game?" She said to click on it, and I will see.
I was 7, I think and a Nintendo guy until then. Diablo 2 gave more of the same. The first act of Diablo 2 is longer than the whole Diablo 1 game. Now 10 year have passed and I evolved. I dont want more of the same. I want more than just a longer Diablo 1. I want new ideas, fresh ideas.
And yes, I dont like the art that much. I'm a cartoon guy. I prefer Anime to Batman.

 

[Pikelet]

Well put. :lol Overzealously claiming things like mods as "derivative works" and thereby asserting ownership of them is sleazy as all get-out.

Have you seen the artwork that was released? It looks almost exactly like warcraft 3 concept art.

That seems pretty sleazy to me...

 

[Rubius]

Good thing they didnt, now we can guess at what DotA actually stands for...Dongs of the Ancients maybe?

The acronym is more used than the full sentence. But really, if they wanted to make a DotA, for a while, why Blizzard didnt announce and registered the DotA name? Why not hire the guy to make the mod of Starcraft 2?

 

[charlequin]

Have you seen the artwork that was released? It looks almost exactly like warcraft 3 concept art.

No, it really doesn't.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Have you seen the artwork that was released? It looks almost exactly like warcraft 3 concept art.

That seems pretty sleazy to me..."


Do we really want to play that game? Because then people are going to link to Warhammer and Warhammer 40k artwork. And then people will mention Tolkien and so on and so forth.

 

[Rubius]

No, it really doesn't.

I can see the Warcraft feel to it, but Warcraft feel is pretty much Generic Fantasy. Until I see a Blond Blood elf, its safe to say its just generic art.

 

[Mudkips]

This thread is gold, Jerry, gold!

As, you know, someone who fucking plays games, all I give a shit about is playing a good fucking game.

Blizzard is crying because they didn't snap up DotA ages ago (for whatever reason).
Valve is laying claim to something neither they nor their new employee Icefrog created.
Blizzard has locked down the rights of SC2 maps in a terrible way for gamers.
Valve (from what we know) is making a carbon copy of DotA with better social tools.

The clear fucking winner in this whole fiasco is HoN.
Available now. Great gameplay. Doing new things with the genre. Fantastic interface. No retarded drama. And, most importantly to me, more than 1 fucking map. A DotA map is extremely hard to get just right. HoN's got the classic 5v5 map, and another 5v5 map that's just as balanced and fun. They even have a good 3v3 map, with more stuff to come.

No idea why Blizzard has chosen to expose their dickishness leading up to and during Blizzcon, but whatever.

Do we really want to play that game? Because then people are going to link to Warhammer and Warhammer 40k artwork. And then people will mention Tolkien and so on and so forth.

It's unavoidable. People think whatever they saw first was the original and best. It couldn't possibly be copying anything from anywhere else. Goes for art, music, books, movies, everything.

 

[Alex]

Diablo 1 changed my view on the video game. When I first played the game at the library, I asked the girl "What is this game?" She said to click on it, and I will see.
I was 7, I think and a Nintendo guy until then. Diablo 2 gave more of the same. The first act of Diablo 2 is longer than the whole Diablo 1 game. Now 10 year have passed and I evolved. I dont want more of the same. I want more than just a longer Diablo 1. I want new ideas, fresh ideas.
And yes, I dont like the art that much. I'm a cartoon guy. I prefer Anime to Batman.

But Torchlight is more of the same! This is where you confuse me! Torchlight is very rad, but it's straight up Diablo 1, lots of people dig it for the very reason that it captured that feel!

Diablo 3, however, does look quite a bit different, in some ways I prefer, some ways the jury is out on (for my tastes). But it's certainly a bigger hop and skip away from that original standard mold than Torchlight. Not that I'm trying to use that against Torchlight, Diablo III probably has a ginormous budget and went into development shortly after the creation of the wheel and Torchlight II is a stop gap between Torchlight and their MMO because of how god damn face rocking the original was, it just needed some multi for longevity, which it now has, hurrah.

Do we really want to play that game? Because then people are going to link to Warhammer and Warhammer 40k artwork. And then people will mention Tolkien and so on and so forth.

PennyArcade.jpg

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Good thing they didnt, now we can guess at what DotA actually stands for...Dongs of the Ancients maybe?

Did Organize the alphabet

Decided on the apricots

Defiant of there appraisal

 

[Nirolak]

Blizz automatically owning everything created with the SC2 toolkit is far more anticonsumer than commercializing a sequel to a mod with the person responsible for much of its success on board.

Well, they have to do something to try and get people to buy and sell games in the StarCraft II marketplace.

 

[Thunderbear]

When I first heard of Valve acquiring the whole DOTA thing it did strike me as odd... and uncomfortable.

I don't have a fully formed opinion yet but I certainly think it's a gray area...

 

[Rubius]

But Torchlight is more of the same! This is where you confuse me! Torchlight is very rad, but it's straight up Diablo 1, lots of people dig it for the very reason that it captured that feel!

Diablo 3, however, does look quite a bit different, in some ways I prefer, some ways the jury is out on (for my tastes). But it's certainly a bigger hop and skip away from that original standard mold than Torchlight. Not that I'm trying to use that against Torchlight, Diablo III probably has a ginormous budget and went into development shortly after the creation of the wheel and Torchlight II is a stop gap between Torchlight and their MMO because of how god damn face rocking the original was, it just needed some multi for longevity, which it now has, hurrah.



PennyArcade.jpg

Exactly. Torchlight is Diablo 1. But it give Fresh and new idea. The spell system, the fact that the pet is now useful,customizable with Spells and Items, and can sell stuff for you WHILE you're in a dungeon, the enchantment system, the fact that I grab gold just by walking near it. They all feel new. You see them and you say "Why the hell nobody did that before!" I feel like I'm playing Diablo 1 again. I see the magic in my eyes. I'm a child again. With Diablo 3, its like they use the name of a game I like to sell me an another one.

Torchlight 2 will be Diablo 2.
Open Area, Randomly generated maps. But gain they add new ideas. Day and night cycle with different monster, events occuring randomly. They flushed all 3 Torchlight class and now go with 5 fresh new class. They want the game to be good. And low in price. And Spec.

 

[Pikelet]

Do we really want to play that game? Because then people are going to link to Warhammer and Warhammer 40k artwork. And then people will mention Tolkien and so on and so forth.

Look there is inspiration and then there is stealing. I look at the water elemental picture and it is the exact same character as in warcraft 3. The treants from warcraft 3 are clearly taken from Tolkien, but if they look the same in dota 2 as in warcraft 3 then i think that is just shady.

At least Hon had the good sense to change the models and come up with interesting ideas for the characters.
In fact, there seems to be little that this game has to offer over hon other than the addition of more characters.

 

[starsky]

When I first heard of Valve acquiring the whole DOTA thing it did strike me as odd... and uncomfortable.

I don't have a fully formed opinion yet but I certainly think it's a gray area...

This is my thought exactly.

Edit: To clarify, the modders of DOTA have made League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth, both derivative of DOTA but without copyrighting the name itself. This is what I think Valve should do.

 

[Pikelet]

It's unavoidable. People think whatever they saw first was the original and best. It couldn't possibly be copying anything from anywhere else. Goes for art, music, books, movies, everything.

Are you really arguing that the first time i have come into contact with fantasy characters was via warcraft 3? Not true in any case, i read shit tons of fantasy books and consume all sorts of media related to it.

 

[IceMarker]

I don't think anyone should own "DOTA" at all.

 

[Rubius]

I don't think anyone should own "DOTA" at all.

The Author should own it, and the author got a contract with Steam. They will sell a 15$ game with Steamwork and the cloud. Why the hell not?

 

[Fantasy Final]

Lots of banned people here....

It's a trap!

*runs*

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Look there is inspiration and then there is stealing. I look at the water elemental picture and it is the exact same character as in warcraft 3. The treants from warcraft 3 are clearly taken from Tolkien, but if they look the same in dota 2 as in warcraft 3 then i think that is just shady"


You used a water elemental as your example? The creature that's depicted exactly same in every fantasy setting ever? And treants as well?

Also, when Blizzard does it, it's "inspired" and when anyone does it to Blizzard it's "stealing?"

 

[Instro]

Look there is inspiration and then there is stealing. I look at the water elemental picture and it is the exact same character as in warcraft 3. The treants from warcraft 3 are clearly taken from Tolkien, but if they look the same in dota 2 as in warcraft 3 then i think that is just shady.

At least Hon had the good sense to change the models and come up with interesting ideas for the characters.
In fact, there seems to be little that this game has to offer over hon other than the addition of more characters.

Figured all this out from a press release and a couple of artshots, impressive. Your "stealing" argument is ridiculous as well, those are terrible examples.

 

[hamchan]

Look there is inspiration and then there is stealing. I look at the water elemental picture and it is the exact same character as in warcraft 3. The treants from warcraft 3 are clearly taken from Tolkien, but if they look the same in dota 2 as in warcraft 3 then i think that is just shady.

At least Hon had the good sense to change the models and come up with interesting ideas for the characters.
In fact, there seems to be little that this game has to offer over hon other than the addition of more characters.

The models won't look the same.

 

[Mudkips]

Look there is inspiration and then there is stealing. I look at the water elemental picture and it is the exact same character as in warcraft 3. The treants from warcraft 3 are clearly taken from Tolkien, but if they look the same in dota 2 as in warcraft 3 then i think that is just shady.

At least Hon had the good sense to change the models and come up with interesting ideas for the characters.
In fact, there seems to be little that this game has to offer over hon other than the addition of more characters.

Are you really arguing that the first time i have come into contact with fantasy characters was via warcraft 3? Not true in any case, i read shit tons of fantasy books and consume all sorts of media related to it.

Yes. This is what I am suggesting. And your continued posts on the matter continue to cement my belief that your are being willfully blind.

 

[Recon]

I see a lot of love for HoN, which is a game i play a lot, but damn if it isnt the buggiest game i have ever played. Everyone i know has problems with it crashing randomly.

 

[Rubius]

"Look there is inspiration and then there is stealing. I look at the water elemental picture and it is the exact same character as in warcraft 3. The treants from warcraft 3 are clearly taken from Tolkien, but if they look the same in dota 2 as in warcraft 3 then i think that is just shady"


You used a water elemental as your example? The creature that's depicted exactly same in every fantasy setting ever? And treants as well?

Well the Water elemental does look like the Mage Water elemental of Warcraft 3, just in more Snake-ish and without jewels on him. But lets wait some actual footage and not some art style.

 

[EviLore]

Character models were taken from Warcraft 3 for DotA as a matter of convenience since it's a mod. Valve is staying as close as they can to DotA without copyright infringing on Blizzard or anything else DotA pulled from (like Slayers) because of their goals for the product. If you think "drow ranger" or "water elemental" is infringing on Blizzard you're an idiot.

 

[Alex]

The stuff Valve was talking about focusing on, mainly dickhead repellent and ways to fix leavers, etc with AI was impressive sounding to me.

I'm looking forward to it, I want to try Blizzard's too, and it's free so that makes it a pretty easy decision to keep an eye on both.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Unless there's something in the map editor's EULA that waives the rights of the map to Blizzard, technically the rights to the map are reserved to the creator, who is now under contract with Valve.

Icefrog is not the creator of DotA. He's not even remotely connected to its creation.

Not to mention DotA itself traces its roots to Aeon of Strife, a map type made for Starcraft.

 

[Nirolak]

Look there is inspiration and then there is stealing. I look at the water elemental picture and it is the exact same character as in warcraft 3.

Let's go check out some DND figurines which have been around for thirty years.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Character models were taken from Warcraft 3 for DotA as a matter of convenience since it's a mod. Valve is staying as close as they can to DotA without copyright infringing on Blizzard or anything else DotA pulled from (like Slayers) because of their goals for the product. If you think "drow ranger" or "water elemental" is infringing on Blizzard you're an idiot.

Blizzard invented fantasy dude, where have you been? I heard from my best-friend's girlfriend's sister's postman who used to deliver mail to Chris Metzen that everyone had to stop calling little-people dwarves because Blizzard got upset.

 

[Gribbix]

cry me a river, valve did the same thing with Team Fortress, the original quake mod, they hired the development team and pushed it to greater heights then could've ever been accomplished on it's own, valve will do the same with dota.

When Valve made Team Fortress Classic, they hired the entire design team that created Team Fortress (Robin Walker, John Cook, and Ian Caughley). There was no question about IP ownership. The issue with trademarking DotA is that Valve didn't hire the person(s) who created DotA. Despite the enormity of IceFrog's contribution to DotA, the simple fact is that he didn't create DotA which is why Valve's attempt to co-opt the DotA name really bothers me.