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[Mudkips]

Let's go check out some DND figurines which have been around for thirty years.

Clearly, there is some inspiration. But that's nothing like the blatant stealing of Blizzard's original creations!!!
:lol :lol

 

[FieryBalrog]

I never said that I hated Diablo 3. But its just so bland, brown and Bloom. I just dont have any interest on Diablo 3 for now. Too generic.
Here a video
Torchlight look, and feel original. Its not boring to watch, it have an original style and a perfect control.

Torchlight is original? :lol The game is basically Diablo 2 with a graphical overlay! To the point of having completely pointless identify scrolls, TP scrolls, potion chugging, its nearly the exact same goddamned game.

Its a decent game for $20, but I stopped playing about 5 hours in because it has no multiplayer. I'll wait for Torchlight 2. But I'll be damned if someone pretends this is original.

Also, you're the first person I've seen refer to D3's art style as "brown and bloom". That kinda tells me you have barely even seen a screenshot of it.

 

[RaySpencer]

So a buncha guys left dota to make 2 different stand alone games, so they could actually make money from all of this, and neither side took the Dota name. Now 1 guy who was still running dota was hired by valve to make dota2, and now those guys who left to make the "clones" are angry because now they will have some huge god damn competition?


Am I up to date on the situation?

 

[cornontheCoD]

I find it hilarious that people are crying foul that Valve's dota looks too much like Blizzard's game. For christ's sake, Warcraft's art style is basically ripped straight from warhammer! :lol

 

[markot]

I find it hilarious that people are crying foul that Valve's dota looks too much like Blizzard's game. For christ's sake, Warcraft's art style is basically ripped straight from warhammer! :lol

Shhhhhhhhhh Dont mention the war >_<

Srsly though, blizzes biggest franchises are ripped almost directly from Games Workshop.

And Torchlight being like diablo? Its made by the team who made the diablo series, blizz bought them out before they lanuched the first game >.>

 

[FieryBalrog]

I find it hilarious that people are crying foul that Valve's dota looks too much like Blizzard's game. For christ's sake, Warcraft's art style is basically ripped straight from warhammer! :lol

Actually, Warcraft's super-deformed, cartoony art style is probably the thing they ripped least from Warhammer.

Its not enough to read Kotaku posters whining about Blizzard ripping off Warhammer who got it from reading a Penny Arcade strip somewhere. Try looking at actual Warhammer figurines sometime.

.

And Torchlight being like diablo? Its made by the team who made the diablo series, blizz bought them out before they lanuched the first game >.>

No, it isn't. There are like 3 team members in common. Also, before Blizzard South got involved, Diablo was a turn-based game. Its not exactly that Condor had the game in place and Blizzard just snapped it up.

 

[Forkball]

You snooze you lose. Ice frog is wiht valve now, and as far as Im concerned, Icefrog is Dota. Blizzard should be luck y that someone else came up wiht such a great idea, and they were dumb not to hire him or copyright DOTA when it exploded years ago.

 

[markot]

>_>?

Runic games is set up by 2 guys that founded condor/blizz north.

If you dont think that Warcraft = Warhammer and SC = 40k you are pretty delusional.

 

[Nirolak]

You snooze you lose. Ice frog is wiht valve now, and as far as Im concerned, Icefrog is Dota. Blizzard should be luck y that someone else came up wiht such a great idea, and they were dumb not to hire him or copyright DOTA when it exploded years ago.

Fascinatingly enough, they didn't even clue in when several of their senior staff left to go make a studio with Guinsoo and Pendragon to make a free to play DotA game.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Torchlight is original? :lol The game is basically Diablo 2 with a graphical overlay! To the point of having completely pointless identify scrolls, TP scrolls, potion chugging, its nearly the exact same goddamned game.

Its a decent game for $20, but I stopped playing about 5 hours in because it has no multiplayer. I'll wait for Torchlight 2. But I'll be damned if someone pretends this is original.

Also, you're the first person I've seen refer to D3's art style as "brown and bloom". That kinda tells me you have barely even seen a screenshot of it.

Speaking of the style...
anyone else notice that they fixed the artstyle to make it look more drab and match the atmosphere to the plight of the world. Those rainbows are almost all but gone.

 

[FieryBalrog]

>_>?

Runic games is set up by 2 guys that founded condor/blizz north.

Yes, the 2 Schaefers. That's not the team that built Diablo. Its two producers.

If you dont think that Warcraft = Warhammer and SC = 40k you are pretty delusional.

If you don't think that Warhammer = Tolkien + Moorcock and 40K = Tolkien + Moorcock in space, I have a bridge to sell you. Also, Starship Troopers did the Tyranids first.

Fantasy is tropes, get over it.

 

[CryptiK]

Blizzard DOTA is going to come out around the same time as Valve DOTA you watch!

 

[HK-47]

When Valve made Team Fortress Classic, they hired the entire design team that created Team Fortress (Robin Walker, John Cook, and Ian Caughley). There was no question about IP ownership. The issue with trademarking DotA is that Valve didn't hire the person(s) who created DotA. Despite the enormity of IceFrog's contribution to DotA, the simple fact is that he didn't create DotA which is why Valve's attempt to co-opt the DotA name really bothers me.

Cause the other big names where already doing their own thing with LoL.

 

[IceMarker]

Blizzard DOTA is going to come out around the same time as Valve DOTA you watch!

It's gonna take them over 3 months to release a map?

 

[les papillons sexuels]

When Valve made Team Fortress Classic, they hired the entire design team that created Team Fortress (Robin Walker, John Cook, and Ian Caughley). There was no question about IP ownership. The issue with trademarking DotA is that Valve didn't hire the person(s) who created DotA. Despite the enormity of IceFrog's contribution to DotA, the simple fact is that he didn't create DotA which is why Valve's attempt to co-opt the DotA name really bothers me.

If we're going to make an argument based on the development team, one would have to argue that the parent company of the engine should be included, as the engine plays a vital role in a mod's development.

Second, the original creation of the mod cannot be singled down to any single group or individual. Considering that DotA is pretty much a hero version of Tower Defense, why not throw in John Salwitz for his creation of Rampart as part of the original design.


That said, the others have already sold off their share of the Dota stock.

 

[Nirolak]

It's gonna take them over 3 months to release a map?

Quite possibly: http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/23/bli...-project-than-other-mods-release-further-out/

 

[Alex]

It's gonna take them over 3 months to release a map?

They're doing all of their own characters and such, so all the tweaking and balance and whatever other feautres they plan on is bound to take some time.

 

[emic]

These people should stop complaining about a name..
So far they got two opponents and one of them is free!
Let the competition begin!

And can we please get a new fawken map?
Are these people kidding me?
Isometrical maps arn't hard.. Ctrl-C the damn thang!

 

[jakonovski]

Somehow, douchenozzle companies trying to make a buck on community projects fits so well with DotA. :lol

 

[faridmon]

Wow at people saying Tourchlight is as good as Diablo.
Wow...

 

[farnham]

who are the guys that valve bought to make dota

are those the original creators of dota

if yes then i am all for valve

if no then i am for blizzard

Wow at people saying Tourchlight is as good as Diablo.
Wow...

well. diablo and diablo 2 are both old games and torchlight came out last year. so its natural that torchlight has better graphics, mechanics etc.

 

[shintoki]

Fascinatingly enough, they didn't even clue in when several of their senior staff left to go make a studio with Guinsoo and Pendragon to make a free to play DotA game.

Its shocking how deep they had their head in the ground. DOTA has been the most played game on WarIII for years. 2 competitors created their own off shoots. And not until Valve stepped in, did they notice that they were sitting on a golden egg.

 

[JWong]

who are the guys that valve bought to make dota

are those the original creators of dota

if yes then i am all for valve

if no then i am for blizzard

So you're for Blizzard since Icefrog (at Valve) is not the original creator.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Its shocking how deep they had their head in the ground. DOTA has been the most played game on WarIII for years. 2 competitors created their own off shoots. And not until Valve stepped in, did they notice that they were sitting on a golden egg.

That's pretty silly. Its not like Blizzard didn't know DotA was wildly popular; they probably just didn't anticipate anyone lifting the name wholesale and try to use the IP, such as it were. Not that Valve is doing anything wrong (except, in my opinion, being really lazy in putting out this "sequel"... it sounds more like a matchmaking update to the original game than anything).

 

[Nirolak]

That's pretty silly. Its not like Blizzard didn't know DotA was wildly popular; they probably just didn't anticipate anyone lifting the name wholesale and try to use the IP, such as it were. Not that Valve is doing anything wrong (except, in my opinion, being really lazy in putting out this "sequel"... it sounds more like a matchmaking update to the original game than anything).

Yeah, the initial release is pretty much just DotA, but they mentioned that they intend to support the game TF2 style so I'm fine with them calling it a sequel.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Is anyone else concerned at how much legal and near-legal talk is going on during a Blizzcon? How many have happened? 3?

 

[Htown]

So you're for Blizzard since Icefrog (at Valve) is not the original creator.

How long has Icefrog been in charge of DOTA?

 

[duckroll]

well. diablo and diablo 2 are both old games and torchlight came out last year. so its natural that torchlight has better graphics, mechanics etc.

But it doesn't. The art style is crappy, the monsters and bosses are not anywhere as cool, the mechanics aren't better, and there isn't even goddamn multiplayer. Saying Torchlight is better than Diablo 2 is a total joke.

 

[Technosteve]

if we are lucky dota will never be released the hate simulator

 

[GregLombardi]

Blizz automatically owning everything created with the SC2 toolkit is far more anticonsumer than commercializing a sequel to a mod with the person responsible for much of its success on board.

This.

Blizzard has become a bit too monstrous for their own good in my opinion. Whatever money the owners got out of the merger was not worth it in my opinion.

Also if Blizzard knew what was good for them, they should have commercialized the DOTA mod years ago. They've become too big of a corporate entity IMHO, they have missed opportunities, and I believe their time may be up as one of the world's greatest developers, at least in terms of driving innovation. Now they're just protecting it, in the form of WoW.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Don't be mad cause Valve beat you to it Blizzard.

 

[Archie]

I wouldn't be shocked if DOTA was the primary reason that the 'we own anything made in SC2' clause was added to Blizzard's EULA.

Don't be mad cause Valve beat you to it Blizzard.

Actually, a ton of companies beat Blizzard to the punch. (Gas Powered Games, S2, Riot, Valve, and some Chinese clone). Blizzard missed the boat years ago and has nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[FieryBalrog]

How long has Icefrog been in charge of DOTA?

Since about 2005

Although that is somewhat misleading, since all the foundations for the game were in place, the mechanics haven't changed and the map has remained largely identical. Since then we've had mostly new heroes (more interesting ones), balance changes (for the better) and some other tweaks. Probably the best thing Icefrog brought to the game is stability in development.

 

[Htown]

Since about 2005

So people are mad that the guy who has been in charge of DOTA for twice as long as the original team is now heading up the Valve project?

Why?

 

[FieryBalrog]

So people are mad that the guy who has been in charge of DOTA for twice as long as the original team is now heading up the Valve project?

Why?

Who's mad?

Also, see above. While Icefrog has been in charge longest, his contribution to the actual creative and development side of DotA is probably the smallest.

 

[hamchan]

So people are mad that the guy who has been in charge of DOTA for twice as long as the original team is now heading up the Valve project?

Why?

Because he didn't create it and make most of it and now Valve is using his involvement as some sort of claim to the DotA name, which they will own forever if they successfully copyright it?

 

[JWong]

Don't be mad cause Valve beat you to it Blizzard.

Why is this the popular response? Pardo doesn't want the IP or anything. He said it belongs to the community and shouldn't be trademarked.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

While Icefrog has been in charge longest, his contribution to the actual creative and development side of DotA is probably the smallest.

This isn't true. I have played DotA for years and years now, and DotA is what it is today and became as balanced as it is because of Icefrog's work more so than anyone else. He has been a genius at fixing bugs and issues with the WC3 engine to make the game better, something that the other guys weren't able/weren't willing to do.

Because he didn't create it and make most of it and now Valve is using his involvement as some sort of claim to the DotA name, which they will own forever if they successfully copyright it?

He didn't create it, but he was given the project a long time ago. The creators gave the project away, that's their fault. They gave Icefrog control of the project so he is free to do with it as he pleases.

The classy thing Valve should do is credit all of the original modders in the Dota 2 credits, either as designers or as 'special thanks.' That is the extent of recognition the original creators deserve at this point.

Also, there is nothing wrong with Valve getting the trademark for "Dota." People may have called the original mod DotA out of convenience, but the game is called Defense of the Ancients - All-Stars, not 'Dota.'

 

[Htown]

Because he didn't create it and make most of it and now Valve is using his involvement as some sort of claim to the DotA name, which they will own forever if they successfully copyright it?

But the people who did create it said "forget it we're going to make something else here you go."

Also I still fail to see how any of this is different than the Team Fortress situation.

 

[John]

this is p. ironic considering that blizzard's new TOS for starcraft II automatically make all mods uploaded to their servers their property

 

[FieryBalrog]

But the people who did create it said "forget it we're going to make something else here you go."

Yea, no one is saying Valve doesn't have the legal right to try and get DotA copyrighted. However some people do see this move as a little disrespectful to the people who actually created DotA, given that they could have used the name themselves but didn't out of respect for the community (read Guinsoo's interview linked earlier).

Personally I don't care and I'm glad to see more DotA games out there. However, Pardo's comment isn't douchey or baseless.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Yea, no one is saying Valve doesn't have the legal right to try and get DotA copyrighted. However some people do see this move as a little disrespectful to the people who actually created DotA, given that they could have used the name themselves but didn't out of respect for the community (read Guinsoo's interview linked earlier).

I really don't think it's disrespectful if Valve credits their names in the new game. Again, since they willingly left the project and gave it away years ago, they shouldn't be able to claim or expect any more recognition than that.

 

[HK-47]

this is p. ironic considering that blizzard's new TOS for starcraft II automatically make all mods uploaded to their servers their property

I'm sure that will foster a creative environment like those on the Quake or Source engine or with OG Half Life.

Way to go Blizzard.

 

[Won]

I do find this kinda funny, after Blizzard presented "Left 2 Die" during one of the panels.

 

[erpg]

Super Blizzard Bros. sounds better anyway.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I do find this kinda funny, after Blizzard presented "Left 2 Die" during one of the panels.

Free homage

 

[Sciz]

I'll be happy when this genre gets past its "DOOM clone" era and gets an actual name.

 

[Blueblur1]

This will be interesting. I wonder how it'll play out. :lol

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I'll be happy when this genre gets past its "DOOM clone" era and gets an actual name.

Real-time strategy role-playing cooperative PvP battle arena...

RTSRPGCPVPBA

Oh god...

 

[notworksafe]

But the people who did create it said "forget it we're going to make something else here you go."

Also I still fail to see how any of this is different than the Team Fortress situation.

It isn't different. People just get whiny because it's Blizzard.

I'm sure that will foster a creative environment like those on the Quake or Source engine or with OG Half Life.

Way to go Blizzard.

To be fair, there are a ton of custom maps and mods that are really damn good. Plus Blizzard will offer the ability to sell your mods through them as long as you meet certain requirements (using all original art/models, etc).