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Bloodborne/Nioh - am I wasting my money?
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The are - if you play Nioh in low stance (which I did for the majority of it) - it becomes almost as fast NGB movement wise.
Nioh requires timing as well - especially on certain bosses - which isnt unlike NGB in that respect.
They are different but you can total see the impact NG had on the game. Hell - an ancestor shows up in the third DLC and has the same move set as the bloodline.
As for the difficulty - the second level of Nioh with
Hino-Nema
Fbh
Member
People use a lot of hyperbole when talking about the difficulty of these games.
They are hard yeah but not incredibly so. A big part of the difficulty comes from understanding how these games work. It's stuff like understanding that instead of running into a group of strong enemies it makes more sense to lure them to you one at a time. Or realizing that the time window to evade attacks is generally pretty generous and doesn't need lightning fast reaction times but you will be hit if you just mash the evade button.
Early in Bloodborne there are 2 enemies in a specific area that are really strong and kill you fast and a lot of people get frustrated. But if you explore you'll find a door right next to them that's too small form the to pass, making it easy to evade them or even kill them as they still try to hit you from outside the door. It's stuff like that that you need to consider
As for the games.
Nioh has the better core combat and it also runs at 60fps which is nice.
But Bloodborne has the better world and more enemy/weapon variety
They are hard yeah but not incredibly so. A big part of the difficulty comes from understanding how these games work. It's stuff like understanding that instead of running into a group of strong enemies it makes more sense to lure them to you one at a time. Or realizing that the time window to evade attacks is generally pretty generous and doesn't need lightning fast reaction times but you will be hit if you just mash the evade button.
Early in Bloodborne there are 2 enemies in a specific area that are really strong and kill you fast and a lot of people get frustrated. But if you explore you'll find a door right next to them that's too small form the to pass, making it easy to evade them or even kill them as they still try to hit you from outside the door. It's stuff like that that you need to consider
As for the games.
Nioh has the better core combat and it also runs at 60fps which is nice.
But Bloodborne has the better world and more enemy/weapon variety
catpurrcat
Member
This is pretty accurate. Nioh shares similarities with Ninja Gaiden. Personally I struggled with bloodborne whereas Nioh I managed to get 2/3 the way through.
Both are difficult but I liked being able to choose play styles on offense by respec in Nioh.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Were you there for the first Nioh OT? There was a guy who had a breakdown over that boss lmao.
Theslammer
Member
I'm waiting for the soon-to-release Complete Edition to go on sale.
Agreed, you can definitely see the lineage. It has been ages since I played NGB on Xbox, so my memory might be hazy, but I remember having a hell of a time beating that game. Nioh was tough but no more so than the Souls series. Actually a lot of the boss battles were easier because you can dish out significantly more damage thus shortening the encounter. Also, if you choose to use it sloth talisman breaks the game nullifying the challenge of many bosses. I have not played the DLC yet for Nioh, beat the game and did some loot runs after. I loved the stance changes in Nioh and the ease with which you can change your builds. Halfway through the game I switched to a spear build and never looked back. Spears are OP, I guess any of the weapons can be with the right build.
Bloodporne
Member
I'd say for OP that both games can be tough as fucking nails if you don't really dedicate time to learn them.
Both will test your patience and diligence in regards to reading all the minutiae of item explanations and so forth to figure out strategies. Bosses will most certainly hammer you in the beginning, so be prepared for that.
However, it just takes the right quality game pushing you into that deep end of the pool and making you actually want to learn how to swim. For that reason, I'd say Bloodborne any day over Nioh. Nioh's a really great game, but it's nowhere near the holistic and fascinating world that Bloodborne can suck you into and therefore make you actually want to overcome the obstacles.
Nioh can be fantastic and insanely fun, but for my tastes it's just packed to gills with too much...shit. There's an overwhelming amount of repetitive loot, modes, side missions, difficulties and just generally endless amounts of stuff. The problem with that for me is that level design, mission and enemy variety all suffered, yet there's more, more and more of everything else. I'm still playing the crap out of it right now because the combat is just that damn good and I absolutely love the core mechanics and world, but they need to trim so much fat for Nioh 2, it's not even funny.
In short, if you're still reading and still interested in taking the plunge OP, as a huge fan of both I would recommend Bloodborne over Nioh for your situation any day of the week.
Both will test your patience and diligence in regards to reading all the minutiae of item explanations and so forth to figure out strategies. Bosses will most certainly hammer you in the beginning, so be prepared for that.
However, it just takes the right quality game pushing you into that deep end of the pool and making you actually want to learn how to swim. For that reason, I'd say Bloodborne any day over Nioh. Nioh's a really great game, but it's nowhere near the holistic and fascinating world that Bloodborne can suck you into and therefore make you actually want to overcome the obstacles.
Nioh can be fantastic and insanely fun, but for my tastes it's just packed to gills with too much...shit. There's an overwhelming amount of repetitive loot, modes, side missions, difficulties and just generally endless amounts of stuff. The problem with that for me is that level design, mission and enemy variety all suffered, yet there's more, more and more of everything else. I'm still playing the crap out of it right now because the combat is just that damn good and I absolutely love the core mechanics and world, but they need to trim so much fat for Nioh 2, it's not even funny.
In short, if you're still reading and still interested in taking the plunge OP, as a huge fan of both I would recommend Bloodborne over Nioh for your situation any day of the week.
BlitzBlake
Member
I think it's worth mentioning that whilst the atmosphere in bloodborne is great, it's actually really depressing and unsettling like... the game is great but man do I hate playing it.
firenskill2000
Member
Bloodborne is awesome but the learning curve is steep at first. Id never played a Souls game before it and the first area of the game made me regret my purchase for the first week. Once I figured out how to actually play everything clicked and it was amazing. Its really not THAT difficult once you get the mechanics down.
Martinski43
Member
Yeah this was me as well, had only played a little of Demon's Souls before years prior but never got for in it. Like beat the first boss or so.
AzureFlame
Member
both are GOATS.
both are diffrent
both are diffcult but it's easier if you play with someone.
both are diffrent
both are diffcult but it's easier if you play with someone.
Martinski43
Member
Yeah you dont have to play solo.
Doing some jolly co-op is just as viable in soulsborne and nioh.
So Im playing BB first, and Im loving it.
Took me 3 hours for the first area and first boss, took a few attempts to learn the patterns etc but got him down after 4 or 5 attempts. I know the difficulty will just get worse and worse but im loving the combat so far! Gotta be on your guard at all times etc.
So so far, I think im OK with the difficulty level. I know its only the first area but Ive not thrown any rages (lol) or got annoyed at all etc, and have actually enjoyed watching my attempts get better, and improving my general skills on the minions.
The music is superb as well and the setting is stunning. Fucking glad I bought this, although Im sure the bosses get brutal later so hopefully I dont get too salty, haha
Took me 3 hours for the first area and first boss, took a few attempts to learn the patterns etc but got him down after 4 or 5 attempts. I know the difficulty will just get worse and worse but im loving the combat so far! Gotta be on your guard at all times etc.
So so far, I think im OK with the difficulty level. I know its only the first area but Ive not thrown any rages (lol) or got annoyed at all etc, and have actually enjoyed watching my attempts get better, and improving my general skills on the minions.
The music is superb as well and the setting is stunning. Fucking glad I bought this, although Im sure the bosses get brutal later so hopefully I dont get too salty, haha
Wasting money? Hell naw.
You're actually getting your moneys worth with BOTH these amazing games. Loved every second of my playthrough with each. My personal preference would be Nioh of course due to that sexy ass combat/Samurai setting alone. These games are excellent bang for your buck.
You're actually getting your moneys worth with BOTH these amazing games. Loved every second of my playthrough with each. My personal preference would be Nioh of course due to that sexy ass combat/Samurai setting alone. These games are excellent bang for your buck.
Bloodborne is more pure figure it out/git gud which I find very fun and satisfying.
Nioh poses some challenges, but there is a mechanism to grind your gear better, so you can, much much more than in bloodborne, significantly increase your, say, damage with grinding. I didn't play enough to know if you always feel like you need more grinding to proceed rather than need more learning... but this is why I dropped nioh. fine game if its for you, but I like bloodborne much more.
as to your original question, you are not. play them.
Nioh poses some challenges, but there is a mechanism to grind your gear better, so you can, much much more than in bloodborne, significantly increase your, say, damage with grinding. I didn't play enough to know if you always feel like you need more grinding to proceed rather than need more learning... but this is why I dropped nioh. fine game if its for you, but I like bloodborne much more.
as to your original question, you are not. play them.
Try to learn parrying and you'll be golden. Glad you're enjoying it!
qa_engineer
Member
Both are great but having played all the souls games and now putting some solid hours into nioh I can say is like nioh a lot more. The Co-op system, combat, and the loot system make it a better overall game imo. Not to mention the sweet PS4 pro support.
Get both if the souls type games are your cup of tea. Two very different experiences based on the same souls-like recipe.
Get both if the souls type games are your cup of tea. Two very different experiences based on the same souls-like recipe.
Yeah, you're going to finish the game.
IMO BB gets better as it progresses, especially if you're into the environment.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I love Nioh, but no. Bloodborne has the better level design, visuals, monster design, boss fights, atmosphere, art direction, and even storytelling.
Out of the two Bloodborne is superior as an overall product, but Nioh is "easier."
Welp I see he already bought them.
Welp I see he already bought them.
Bloodporne
Member
Good for you, it's an incredible game and overall world and will suck you in completely. In regards to "later on", I think if you were able to overcome the initial uphill battle that is the opening of Bloodborne, you're good to go honestly.
Once you grasp the basics, it's a matter of repetition to build your skill. And yeah, like others have said, practice parrying as it's really not that difficult timing-wise and a ton of enemies and bosses can be parried for massive damage output.
And remember, be aggressive yet not reckless or stupid. The game definitely rewards aggression and feels built around that with the rallying (health regain after damage) mechanic etc.
Jawbreaker
Member
SweetJohnnyCage
Member
Pretty much this. The difficulty is relative to you figuring out the mechanics. You're going to die, but just learn why you died and come back stronger.
Possibly an EU sale? They always get way better sales than the other regions.
I think the thing that a lot of people don't understand is that the Souls games are hard, but they are also extremely fair. You will probably find that they are far less brutal than you expected.
Nioh can be pretty tough, and it can definitely be less fair than the Souls games, but the enemies aren't super hard to deal with when you start to incorporate a little movement into your gameplan. You can have them swinging at air (leaving them open for attacks) very consistently.
I think you will be fine if you are okay dying a few times as you learn the games. You may end up realizing that you actually LOVE this style of game. I think they took many of us by surprise.
Nioh can be pretty tough, and it can definitely be less fair than the Souls games, but the enemies aren't super hard to deal with when you start to incorporate a little movement into your gameplan. You can have them swinging at air (leaving them open for attacks) very consistently.
I think you will be fine if you are okay dying a few times as you learn the games. You may end up realizing that you actually LOVE this style of game. I think they took many of us by surprise.
How? How tedious to have to keep dragging your arse back to Gascoigne for him to Beast mode and nail you, or just pull of some attack you've never seen before and nail you. Or just brute force nail you. And that applies to any boss. How does the game go about educating players on what they did wrong and how to improve, if the price for misreading or mistiming an attack pattern is a 10 minute or more runaround to grind items and get back to your position, and the game doesn't tell you anything so you have to trawl youtube or guides for help... and THEN players act like they're some fucking kung fu master for figuring it out.
This whole "git gud" thing is just a horrible mindset. It's like... the anti-Nintendo ethos on how to construct a game.
Sir_Stoo should take you as a good example.
Game will be easier soon. Don't worry. Embrace the parry.
Gascoigne does not suddenly have new moves or shit like this. You even get an item to abuse to confuse him where you can just hack him. If you have the damn shortcut it only takes 1 Minute to get to him. That doesn't apply to any boss. You didn't even get further - why do you say this and lie? Every boss has a patern which you can learn and for every Bloodborne boss there is an easy clue for every move and how you should react. You act like a baby just because some people get the game like the OP and many of us and you just say "LOL everyone says I have to git gud and Youtube is the only way to show everyone the way" NO it's not. Most of us explored, read the god damn notes which the game and even players gave you and were just patient unlike you. The game was just not for you and you were just not good, but the game gives you every tool to master it without any help.
I would pay big money to play it again for the first time. Have fun.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
The cost of dying has nothing to do with the game's ability to teach you. If you die to some attack, you should be mentally digesting its startup animation, damage, range, etc. A 10min run or an instant retry button doesn't change this.
And you shouldn't constantly be dying to attacks you haven't seen before. Boss movesets are fairly limited (I wanna say like 5ish attacks each?). There's merit to keeping your distance and testing the waters the first time you're fighting a boss.
In your Gascoigne example, it's obvious that keeping your distance is the way to go.
That being said, grinding blood vials sucks. With you on that.
Also spoilering the boss talk because we're literally in a thread about a new player here.
Mr Moose
Member
Timing, using your surroundings to your advantage,
getting him stuck on the stairs and cheesing him with the axe.
KillerDark
Member
If you have patience I highly recommend Bloodborne. The difficulty is incredibly overhyped. Yes you will die, but you will learn from it and figure out what you did wrong and avoid it next time.
Bloodborne is absolutely amazing when it comes to setting and tone. Combat is very visceral and deliberate.
Nioh I'm almost at the end but it is a lot more technical when it comes to combat. As I come from a Souls/Bloorborne background I've noticed I rarely do any special combos or switching things ever because if i hit square square triangle using my polearm it seems to be the safest move to be able to dodge away. It's literally the only move I ever do? If i do anything fancy i generally get hit so I just end up using my polearm job at distance in mid stance as I don't really get on with the other stances.
Nioh I'm almost at the end but it is a lot more technical when it comes to combat. As I come from a Souls/Bloorborne background I've noticed I rarely do any special combos or switching things ever because if i hit square square triangle using my polearm it seems to be the safest move to be able to dodge away. It's literally the only move I ever do? If i do anything fancy i generally get hit so I just end up using my polearm job at distance in mid stance as I don't really get on with the other stances.
GodIsOnTheRadio
Member
where are you seeing Nioh for a nice price? plz link
Mate if this was a Mario game, what's happening to you is the equivalent of you falling in the same pit of the first level over and over again and then complaining about getting sent back to the start of the level or least checkpoint.
How does the game educate you in what you did wrong? It hits you. Early on most attacks are not one shot kills, so if you get hit, you should really be thinking "well what did I do wrong to get hit?". If you insist on just bashing your head against the wall, instead of thinking "hmm maybe this wall has a hole somewhere" then yeah, that'll suck, but it's hardly the games fault at this point.
And the whole "git gud" mindset is pretty much literally THE nintendo mindset. They craft levels with as little explanation as possible, give you all the tools to let you beat it and let you run wild. As the games progress they add more layers to develop your skills, and it usually accumulates to a challenging last level that tests all the things you've built up to that point.
Sure Nintendo doesn't take it as far as something like bloodborne, but the fundamental ideas are the same.
Also you mentioned enemies having "invincibility frames" earlier. I'm going to assume that what you actually meant was that some don't stagger to your attacks. Yes some take a lot more force to stagger, or you need a bigger weapon.
But here's the rub. Your character DOES have invincibility frames. And a lot of them. Dodging an attack you know you can't stagger can become trivial if you bother to pay attention. And the entire point is to safely and aggressively attack openings.
You also keep complaining about needing to watch youtube videos and suddenly they're "kung fu masters". Would it help if I mentioned that I didn't watch any videos? I only watch a video of an area after I've gotten past it myself, in case I miss any cool secrets. But aside from that, I learned everything I needed to beat the souls series myself.
Also "10 minutes runaround"? I assume that you mean to collect healing stuff and bullets etc? While I agree that's annoying (and mainly only a BB thing) I would like to know if you are so low just from the boss? Or if you've always been that low?
The first does happen when facing a really challenging boss, but the the later could indicate that you are taking unnecessary hits and might be playing in a manner that is not taking advantage of what your character is capable of.
Like any game, the community for souls games is more than happy to give tips and advice to help, but when your criticism to a lot of the combat boils down to "I'm bad at this, so the game sucks" it's not exactly shocking that most replies will just get to the "git gud" route.
Compare that to someone asking for tips on a boss's patterns, like O'l Gas here, I could tell you about his three primary phases, what tactics you should probably try in each, and so on. It's really no different than someone asking for advice on playing xcom 2, or Ori and the Blind Forrest.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
I've never understood why people say the beginning of Bloodborne is exceptionally hard. The brick guys can be tricky with the tracking and range on the final hit of their combo, but that's about it. The other mobs have slow attacks and stagger with each hit. It's only as hard as, or even a bit easier than the other Souls games at the start.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Yeah, it will definitely get more tough but take advantage of the parry/counter move with your gun. It is very helpful.
I'm glad you're enjoying it.
I feel it really comes down to whether you are able to realise that most other games where you just walk up to an enemy and wail on them has taught you wrong. This includes traditionally difficult games like ninja gaiden black.
The people that don't figure this out are going to have a much rougher time than those that do. I was one of the ones that took awhile to figure this out, it took me like 10 hours to reach taurus demon in DS1, I was awful at it, and it felt like a wall. Then as I started looking at how other people handled the stuff I passed, I started to understand what the game wanted, and suddenly it started to click a lot more.
What was a near 10 hour journey I could then complete in a few minutes.
Dude, I am old and generally suck at ganes requiring fast reaction tine, but I got through Bloodborne. You need to have patience in the first area though. It is an utter pain the patoot. I suggest sprinting to see the Cleric Beast and then farming to level up.
I see that people don't get why the first area sucks. One, a convoy or two of three to four monsters in a narrow corridor, plus 3-4 hidden surprise monsters, and a ranged opponent you might have to take down by sprinting around a large group. Plus, those damned wolves.
I see that people don't get why the first area sucks. One, a convoy or two of three to four monsters in a narrow corridor, plus 3-4 hidden surprise monsters, and a ranged opponent you might have to take down by sprinting around a large group. Plus, those damned wolves.
I actually think it levels out past mid point to a fair degree that you always have to be conscious of what you're doing but it doesn't become overly bullshit. If you want that there's the chalice dungeons.(they take a while to get going too)
If OP is a fan of the Ninja Gaiden games, they may prefer the faster, more fleshed out combat in Nioh. Also dat framerate.
Agree with what people are saying about the first area of Bloodborne. If you try to kill all the enemies on the way to the first boss, and don't unlock the checkpoints, it's a huge pain in the ass. I cost myself like 6 hours because of this.
Agree with what people are saying about the first area of Bloodborne. If you try to kill all the enemies on the way to the first boss, and don't unlock the checkpoints, it's a huge pain in the ass. I cost myself like 6 hours because of this.
It's still worth checking out, but it definitely does not play as nicely as the Souls games do. Which is part of why those games took off I imagine, King's Field has an innately appealing core hobbled by rough, early first person controls.
Melchiah
Member
That's one of the reasons why I love playing it. No other game gives me the same wonderful feeling, apart from Silent Hill 2.
EDIT:
It's relatively easy to take care of them one by one. You just need to pay attention to what the game shows you.
Use pebbles to your advantage, and find the shortcut to bypass the wolves.
Also the narrow corridor is literally an advantage to the player lol. If you're fighting multiple opponents, funneling them into a corridor is not only a smart videogame tactic, but it's the kind of thing that is used in actual battles.
Negate an opposition's overwhelming numbers by limiting how many can engage your forces at any given time.
Not to mention your character has enough speed and attack strength to kill 2 of a group of 3 before the 3rd can finish an attack.
There is something simultaneously depressing and enchanting about the world. Disturbing moments and grotesque visuals always have an underlying majesty. And all that majesty is wasted as every landscape and personality falls to ruin.
My favorite example is the cutscene transition of Ludwig. Arguably the best boss cutscene in video game history.
Melchiah
Member
I'd recommend the OP to stock up on Blood Vials, and search all the areas. You can find enough Blood Stone Shards from the first area to level up your weapon twice, and that's more useful in the beginning than levelling up your character. You can also find Coldblood Dews from there, which give you Blood Echoes to use for levelling up the character, or buying gear. It's recommended to only use them in the Hunter's Dream. There's a better Hunter attire to find as well, but you can also buy one from the store in the dream. Keep also in mind, that fire and serrated damage work well against beasts.
EDIT: It's highly recommended to concentrate on three stats, vitality, endurance, and skill/strength, depending on the weapon you use. Around 30 is well enough for endurance towards the end, whereas you can go up to 50 with skill/strength. Bloodtinge and arcane stats are more for late / DLC weapons, and subsequent playthroughs.
True. The whip form of Threaded Cane is perfect for keeping the mob at bay in those narrow corridors.
Agreed. I find its world and music beautiful and melancholic. There's a sense of loss that permeates everything.
EDIT: It's highly recommended to concentrate on three stats, vitality, endurance, and skill/strength, depending on the weapon you use. Around 30 is well enough for endurance towards the end, whereas you can go up to 50 with skill/strength. Bloodtinge and arcane stats are more for late / DLC weapons, and subsequent playthroughs.
True. The whip form of Threaded Cane is perfect for keeping the mob at bay in those narrow corridors.
Agreed. I find its world and music beautiful and melancholic. There's a sense of loss that permeates everything.