RobFox64tm
Member
I was disappointed this wasn't announced in the indies thing. It was the game I wanted the most, so I'm glad to see it here.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bloodstained is coming to Switch
- Thread starter Skeletos311
- Start date
Red Arremer
Member
Like I get not liking Igavanias, I get not liking the anime art style some of the games had, I get not liking various aspects of the gameplay - be it level design or what have you.
But portraying Iga as some incompetent hack who has absolutely no idea how to make a video game, let alone one that people might enjoy, and that he did nothing but shit out recycled garbage that nobody possibly could have liked, had absolutely no creative input into SotN, or that his generous overlords at Konami had nothing to do with any of the bad choices he had to make or that it was entirely his fault that Konami stopped making Castlevania games is just petty hostility towards a guy who tried his best to make games given the circumstances he was in. And yes, sometimes a developer faceplants and makes a bad design choice, like having anime art.
Also, imagine if Iga had departed from the series' formula for the sake of innovation. Because even if you had liked the changes, you would have gotten some other guys screaming "OMG what the fuck is this shit, this isn't Castlevania anymore, we want something like Symphony of the Night or Aria of Sorrow" or whatever. Just look at goddamn Lords of Shadow.
It's the same theatrics every time. If developers make sequels that are, on the base level, similar to their predecessors, there's a shitload of crying about "where's muh innovation, cheap cash-in!", and the very second they change up the gameplay, there's a shitload of crying about it being no longer [insert series here] and that the devs should go back to the roots; especially if the "innovation" is shoe-horned into the series for innovation's sake.
It's happened so many fucking times to so many different series. It's happened since Zelda 2.
Quite.
But portraying Iga as some incompetent hack who has absolutely no idea how to make a video game, let alone one that people might enjoy, and that he did nothing but shit out recycled garbage that nobody possibly could have liked, had absolutely no creative input into SotN, or that his generous overlords at Konami had nothing to do with any of the bad choices he had to make or that it was entirely his fault that Konami stopped making Castlevania games is just petty hostility towards a guy who tried his best to make games given the circumstances he was in. And yes, sometimes a developer faceplants and makes a bad design choice, like having anime art.
Also, imagine if Iga had departed from the series' formula for the sake of innovation. Because even if you had liked the changes, you would have gotten some other guys screaming "OMG what the fuck is this shit, this isn't Castlevania anymore, we want something like Symphony of the Night or Aria of Sorrow" or whatever. Just look at goddamn Lords of Shadow.
It's the same theatrics every time. If developers make sequels that are, on the base level, similar to their predecessors, there's a shitload of crying about "where's muh innovation, cheap cash-in!", and the very second they change up the gameplay, there's a shitload of crying about it being no longer [insert series here] and that the devs should go back to the roots; especially if the "innovation" is shoe-horned into the series for innovation's sake.
It's happened so many fucking times to so many different series. It's happened since Zelda 2.
Quite.
R_thanatos
Member
I'm not a masochist , so not being crushed by the challenge is something i'd like too.
So yeah , difficulty options are a must.
lol See, I't not the only one
Sad that she's not working on this, the main character design is my main turn off from the game, it's really lolita-ish whici is bad in this day and age imo. Why didn't they get Masaki Hirooka then? (The Ecclesia guy, he was fantastic). Hell, get the Lords of Shadow artists which were excellent too.
Dear God. What did I ever do to you.
lol
See, I't not the only one
What game did you work on with IGA?
OmegaDL50
Member
Yeah, I will never buy into the concept of having innovation for the sake of innovation. There was a recent thread on this subject too. If a game has solid mechanics and enjoyable gameplay, while I don't mind new ideas being implemented, I have seen very little examples of a game changing it's overall scope and tone to the point of being a near genre shift have good results. While there are outliers (Metroid Prime for example), the significant majority in this case are often lead to very poor results.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Castlevania : Lament of Salt
There are plenty of good games that have resulted from large changes or even genre shifts. The same formula gets stale eventually and you need to switch things up a bit to keep it interesting.
Iga interview from last year where he talks about working at Konami amongst other topics.
http://www.glixel.com/interviews/koji-igarashi-i-honestly-dont-feel-that-im-a-big-deal-w452181
I like his games quite a bit, and while many may resent him for pumping out so many games so quickly, he was asked to stick to release dates and budgets. Konami had Hideo Kojima doing his multi-year projects with new technologies while Iga was a workhorse toiling in obscurity.
People know who he is not because he's a shameless self-promotor like Kamiya, it's because he produced a lot of games over a steady period of time that were all pretty good, which is actually pretty uncommon and deserving of recognition.
http://www.glixel.com/interviews/koji-igarashi-i-honestly-dont-feel-that-im-a-big-deal-w452181
I like his games quite a bit, and while many may resent him for pumping out so many games so quickly, he was asked to stick to release dates and budgets. Konami had Hideo Kojima doing his multi-year projects with new technologies while Iga was a workhorse toiling in obscurity.
People know who he is not because he's a shameless self-promotor like Kamiya, it's because he produced a lot of games over a steady period of time that were all pretty good, which is actually pretty uncommon and deserving of recognition.
What does Kamiya do to shamelessly self promote? Block people on Twitter? I can't think of anything he does anymore other than block people on Twitter actually. Does he even develop games any more or is he too busy blocking people on Twitter?
ShogunDarius
Member
Is it still coming to Wii U or has that been cancelled in favor of this version?
Holy Order Sol
Member
YuriLowell
Member
He spent 4 years making a game that Microsoft pulled the plug on.
They brought up the possibility of dropping it in an update iirc, but it hasn't been officially canned at this point.
I just mean he's a really high-profile dev who does a lot of interviews and appears at trade shows a lot. Iga has been doing interviews and appearing publicly a lot lately, too, but that's because he's gone indie and is responsible for the promotion of the game.
There are a handful of devs people know because they make it a point to promote themselves, like Kojima or Suda51, but there are also a lot of games where the producer/director aren't so public. Iga is well known, but I wouldn't say he was an exceptionally public guy when he was working on DS games.
I gave Kamiya as an example just because he's like Cliffy B. or Peter Molyneux in that he has a very public persona.
How much of that was actually working on the game and how much was Twitter?
Fair enough, I wasn't sure what you meant so I asked for clarification.
and made a stupid joke
Officially speaking, it's still on for Wii U and a Switch version has been discussed though not in production. Considering that this is a 2018, it's hard to imagine them wanting to hold onto the Wii U and Vita versions of the game, but I don't know how much both audiences would overlap into the Switch version for there to not be some minor uproar when it does turn out to be the case.
The fact that Switch supports UE4 outright, rather than relying on Armature to come up with whatever hacks that they would have to in order to get it working on either the Wii U or Vita is a massive boon.
OmegaDL50
Member
Keeping it interesting is not a sure fire indicator of quality and game actually being fun to play, which should the most important focus for any game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a proven formula that works and tweaking and revising it further by mitigating the things that didn't work and polishing the aspects that worked even further.
Even the limited playable demo that released to backers of Bloodstained had a higher degree of positive reception compared to something like Lords of Shadow. Bloodstained may not be Castlevania, but considering it's mechanics and playstyle that pretty much completely apts the formula established by Symphony of the Night, a known and proven formula. Despite the different setting, character designs, and plot. Bloodstained in some ways far closer to what people want from a Castlevania game despite Lords of Shadow being a official titled release in the series.
I don't see the point of change for the sake of change.
I don't think anyone has ever made change solely for the sake of change. When all your doing is just polishing one formula you get diminishing returns over time. IGA did do a bunch of similar games, but he also did a bunch of other ones when he was in charge of the series so I didn't mind that we were getting a lot of games with the same formula because he managed to stick with it and switch it up at the same time.
You bring up Lords of Shadow as change for change, which is a game I had no interest in. Not because it changed the gameplay formula but because it didn't look like a good game to me.
You seem to be championing SoTN as sticking with a formula, but if you ever played the games before it, SoTN is actually a "change for the sake of change" sort of game. The game resulted from them changing the formula to fit the current market better and while I loved (and still do love) the older titles it was still a welcome change.
Really what it comes down to, you honestly seem like you're resistant to change, but when it turns out in a way you like, you're actually fine with it. The problem with not taking chances is that you never find a formula like SoTN. If they hadn't changed the formula the series would have died 18 years ago and Bloodstained wouldn't exist.
Going a new direction doesn't mean the rest of the series needs to follow either, it didn't for CV, it didn't for Metroid after Prime either. I'd much rather have risks taken on occasion then have series stagnate forever.
People have different opinions on which games are best.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Because some people like the metroid style games more. And iga makes the best metroid style games outside of nintendo.
I like both styles (although I wouldn't call Super Castlevania 4 one of the best, it's nowhere near Castlevania 3, rondo or bloodlines for the classic style vanias).
Squarehard
Member
Reading through all of the recent posts, I actually forgot what the title of this thread was.
Let's get back on course.
It will be interesting to see if there are any delays with them introducing the Switch into the formula of consoles that will have a release.
I am not too keen on the type of technology the Switch uses, so I do fear in order to integrate a version for the Switch they'll most likely have to bring in an entirely new team to make sure the features for the console is fully optimized, as they did with the Vita, and that was for the Vita.
Certainly want to see this sooner rather than later, but again, as long as it's quality this time, and not just rushed, I am willing to wait a bit longer, but hopefully not longer than that since it wouldn't be the first delay, albeit for a good reason, but still, as a person who hates waiting, bleh.
Let's get back on course.
It will be interesting to see if there are any delays with them introducing the Switch into the formula of consoles that will have a release.
I am not too keen on the type of technology the Switch uses, so I do fear in order to integrate a version for the Switch they'll most likely have to bring in an entirely new team to make sure the features for the console is fully optimized, as they did with the Vita, and that was for the Vita.
Certainly want to see this sooner rather than later, but again, as long as it's quality this time, and not just rushed, I am willing to wait a bit longer, but hopefully not longer than that since it wouldn't be the first delay, albeit for a good reason, but still, as a person who hates waiting, bleh.
OmegaDL50
Member
When stuff like Bomberman Act: Zero, Dragon Age II, Resident Evil 6 exist. I'm not sure I'm inclined to agree, and these aren't the only examples. I'm a big fan of the Final Fantasy series, which is predominantly all about changes from last game to the next, so don't assume I'm resistant to change, and some of the changes the FF series made were highly questionable at best.
What I am resistant towards is emphasizing a change of formula at cost for the quality of the game itself, which Konami heavily contributed towards at times, especially when they were risk adverse a lot of the time and generally inflexible in terms some projects developments, depending who was head of the project.
Bloodstained will be the first time in almost 20 years that IGA actually gets to work on a game without the constrained shoe string budgets Konami was allocating. Symphony of the Night was also the first and last game IGA developed in the formula it has that was actually released on console, before the numerous handheld follow ups.
With Bloodstained there are no assets to carry over from a previous game to cut corners because of budget restrictions, this additional flexibility allows IGA more creative control in making the game he wants to make, and not needing to change his vision to confirm to publisher demand.
Putting things into perspective, SoTN had a budget of around 2 to 3 million back in 97. Bloodstained is at 5.5 Million from just backer funding and as from the Publishing agreement IGA was suppose to raise 10% of the minimum required funding level to prove that demand for this sort of game was wanted before the publisher would provide the other 90%.
https://twitter.com/personasama/status/597875118052745218/photo/1
With that said that gives Iga a dev budget of 10 Million, which even if you factor inflation in 1997 to 2017, at 10 Million makes Bloodstained by far the largest budget Igarashi got to work with in a game in the Igavania style.
Based on the limited demo that was playable for backers, to get that level of progress which was very good and it was in a state that was pre-alpha and no where close to a finished state. That makes a very positive impression of what the finished result may end up like.
Alex_Mexico
Member
That may be true but it can't be worse than what they'd need for the WiiU version seeing how at least the switch supports Unreal 4 while the WiiU doesn't.Reading through all of the recent posts, I actually forgot what the title of this thread was.
Let's get back on course.
It will be interesting to see if there are any delays with them introducing the Switch into the formula of consoles that will have a release.
I am not too keen on the type of technology the Switch uses, so I do fear in order to integrate a version for the Switch they'll most likely have to bring in an entirely new team to make sure the features for the console is fully optimized, as they did with the Vita, and that was for the Vita.
Certainly want to see this sooner rather than later, but again, as long as it's quality this time, and not just rushed, I am willing to wait a bit longer, but hopefully not longer than that since it wouldn't be the first delay, albeit for a good reason, but still, as a person who hates waiting, bleh.
A port for switch may not be painless but it won't be a bigger pain than a WiiU one.
Link_enfant
Member
Why did I read Bloodborne?
Yup plus Inti Creates obviously has been working with Switch for a while whereas I don't think they ever worked on Wii U?
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
No way in hell the Wii U and possibly the Vita versions make it.
Mechanized
Member
Thanks for the delay. Fuck sakes.
Astral Dog
Member
this isn't clear enough,They implied the game would be moved to a newer system (NX) when asked about the U version.
While thats not a cancellation even Yookai could not come to Wii U.
TheMoon
Member
Inti Creates worked on Shantae 1/2 Genie Hero, Shantae & the Pirates Curse, Mighty No. 9 for Wii U.
You can't because they haven't officially announced this.
The freaking corridor areas were just transition areas. Holy shit, how many times I've seen this fucking complaint now?
I mean, there were 3 levels like that in the game. THREE. "Full of corridors", my ass. Most of the maps were just like something out of SoTN.
Red Arremer
Member
Are they though? Play the game again. Go through the stages again. You will find so many rooms that are nothing but long hallways that have enemy after enemy put one after another. Don't believe me?
Let's look at the first dungeon, the Monastery. Upon entering, the first room is an empty hallway with enemies. For shortness' sake, I will now simply refer to empty hallways that are filled with a bunch of enemies as just "empty hallways". Onto the second room: a vertical hallway with a few ledges to climb it. There's another empty hallway leading to a warp to the bottom right of that vertical room. Top right: An empty hallway with a treasure chest. Top left is an empty hallway leading to the next vertical room which uses Magnes points instead of ledges, making the room even emptier than the first because there's no actual platforming. To the top left of this room is the first room that actually has any sort of platforms in it, which is the room with the horsehead ghosts and the cat and a bunch of chests, which then also leads to the puzzle room with the stone cubes, which beyond that puzzle is empty. Top right: An empty hallway. After that, another room like the one with the cat in it, though it's just laid out to be layered hallways. Then we have another empty hallway, which leads to the next vertical room of the dungeon, which has a few ledges again. To the right we have another empty hallway with a treasure chest, to the top left another empty hallway. Which brings us the final vertical room in this game which uses Magnes points again, and just leads up to a warp, save room and the boss.
So the very first dungeon already establishes the MO of this game: Long empty hallways stacked with enemies and only if you have to move vertically to connect some hallways, can you expect any sort of platforming, as out of all the non-vertical rooms, only one isn't a hallway (or a layered hallway).
You want to say "But Red Arremer, that's the first dungeon, of course you can't expect much!"? Alright, let's look at a randomly picked dungeon. I'm gonna go with the Skeleton Cave.
After the entry room, the first room we are treated to: An empty hallway. Granted this one has a ledge with a treasure chest, but I wouldn't consider that much of an argument. We then drop down into another empty hallway. This one is actually layered so that it's 2 empty hallways that you have to get across by dropping down from the top level to the bottom level. Isn't that great stage design? Admittedly this one does have an exit to a sideroom that's not a hallway but just a small chamber. Moving on down the main path, the next room is an empty hallway. Another layered one this one, though admittedly they were clever and put a White Dragon enemy onto a wall instead of just the floor here. Going on down into the next room: An empty hallway. This one is filled with several stacks of Bone Pillars - luckily they're only blocking a treasure chest so you can walk just past them. Moving into the next room: An empty hallway that leads up to the boss room (which incidentally also is an empty hallway).
You see where this is going? I can go and dissect most parts of the game that aren't the Training Hall platforming challenge, and find that the vast majority of rooms are either just long hallways with nothing but enemies, or vertical climbs that all look basically the same because they're built like this:
______
______
____________
With only a handful of rooms tossed in in each dungeon shake it up in some shape or form.
Mind you I enjoyed OoE (though I find it to be the worst of the 3 DS-vanias), and I liked some of the things they've done with it, but it's certainly not the masterpiece of level design that some people seem to think it is. The main obstacles in this game aren't the platforming but not getting slaughtered by the overpowering force of enemies.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
So was this like something that pops up when you log into the Nintendo Switch network?
Elfforkusu
Member
I ... had forgotten about the demo until this post.
tbh, I think I'd prefer to wait for the final release.
ScientificPizza
Banned
I hope I can change my physical copy to this
Alex_Mexico
Member
Over at the official Bloodstained fan forums this was posted by Mana, ArtPlay's Community Manager, an hour ago:
Consider this official. Bloodstained is definitely coming to Switch.
Now as to whats going to happen to the WiiU version? Your guess is as good as mine (my money's on it's getting scrapped).
Consider this official. Bloodstained is definitely coming to Switch.
Now as to whats going to happen to the WiiU version? Your guess is as good as mine (my money's on it's getting scrapped).