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[BSsBrolly]

No way.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-among-flip-floppers-senates-nuclear-o/

Shit. Well duh, democrats were for filibusters but that was before they were abused. Once they saw how broken the filibuster is, that all changed. Still gonna stand by what I said. The filibuster was something republicans complained about when it wasn't a big deal. Now show me democrats complaining about it in the early nineties and you've got a point.

We've never seen it abused like the last 6 years.

And god do I hope democrats return the favor some day so that we can put an end to it.

 

[kehs]

I can't find this power in my copy of Article II.

It's under the fuck you pay me clause.

 

[benjipwns]

Now show me democrats complaining about it in the early nineties and you've got a point.

Don't tell me what to do.

But okay:

3 Congressmen Seek to Change Senate Filibusters
By ADAM CLYMER,
Published: October 21, 1993

Three House liberals today called on talk show hosts and editorial writers who have demanded changes in House procedures to join them in demanding an end to the Senate filibuster rule that permits unlimited debate.

Raising an issue that House rules forbid them to mention in floor debate, Representatives Barney Frank of Massachusetts, David R. Obey of Wisconsin and Mike Synar of Oklahoma, all Democrats, said at a news conference that Americans wanted changes in procedures not for their own sake but so that Congress could deal with their problems.

Mr. Frank said filibusters were routinely invoked, not over major issues as they once were, but over such issues as "the fundamental right of cows to eat cheap grass," a reference to a threatened filibuster over legislation that would raise grazing fees on Federal land.

The Congressmen said the Senate filibuster rule was the biggest single obstacle to Congress's doing its job.

Mr. Frank said the rule had "more to do with gridlock than all the other procedures put together." He said the filibuster had forced Democrats to water down several major bills this year, blocked President Clinton's bill to stimulate the economy from even coming to a vote and imperiled health care legislation.

Palo Alto, Calif.; Sept. 28, 1993:

...

The Republicans in the Senate have made no secret of their strategy and tactics. Under the leadership of Sen. Dole, they target those presidential appointees whom they find most ideologically indigestible, threaten to filibuster, and force the White House to expend energy and political capital getting confirmations.

The Republicans' aims are twofold. First, they hope to make the president back off candidates he knows they will target. Second, they tie up the regulatory agencies, especially in the areas of civil rights and labor law enforcement.

"It's a strategy of gridlock," Gould said. "Dole has attempted to dictate to the president the composition of the regulatory agencies. They don't have the votes to reject somebody like myself, but they do have the votes to keep us in limbo."

...

If the 42 Senate Republicans were willing to filibuster until the White House gave them what they wanted, the 58 Democratic votes were two fewer than were needed to invoke cloture. The Republicans had the upper hand because they were unified and organized--and not for the first time.

"It's the same old strategy of gridlock," said Sen. Paul Wellstone, a Labor Committee Democrat who had befriended Gould. "It happens all the time. The last two years there've been 60 or 70 filibusters."

By David Hess, INQUIRER WASHINGTON BUREAU
POSTED: August 28, 1994

Add to that old plan the impact of modern big-money lobbies, self- destructive Senate rules, a Democratic Party that dependably flies apart under pressure, a Republican Party that just says no, and it's a miracle that Congress ever gets anything done.

...

The failure so far of Congress to enact a major package of health-care reform is a prime example of its inability to reach a compromise; it is also clear evidence of the American people's inability to arrive at a consensus on what they really want and how to get it.

"Congress has no trouble acting when there is a clear public consensus," said former Rep. Donald Pease (D., Ohio). "In fact, it moves in jig time. Where it goes haywire is when there is no consensus, and the situation only gets worse when a powerful minority with strongly held views weighs in and thwarts a majority. This is a particularly serious problem in the Senate, where the filibuster plays right into the hands of strongly motivated minorities."

August 31, 1994|ROBERT SHOGAN | TIMES POLITICAL WRITER

A recent study released by the Democratic Study Group, a research group for House members, suggested that senators, most of them Republican, staged more filibusters in the last Congress, the 102nd, than in the entire 19th Century. And evidence indicates that talkathons are being mounted in this current Congress nearly as rapidly, forcing 55 motions to limit debate so far, compared to 62 in all of the last two-year session.

"In the past the filibuster was used sparingly," contends Oklahoma Rep. Mike Synar, chairman of the Study Group said. "Now not only is it used a lot, but just the threat of it being used has made it harder for us to deal with issues that are vital like the economic stimulus package and the crime bill."

From the inception, senators have always considered their chamber the more deliberative body of Congress, and one of their most cherished rights is the ability of each member to speak almost endlessly on legislation. It is that right that gave birth to the filibuster.

Under Senate rules, a filibuster can be halted only by passing a motion for cloture, requiring 60 votes. Since the Senate now has 44 Republicans and 56 Democrats, the majority party often finds it difficult to get to 60.

The result is that often the objection of one member raises the threat of a filibuster and is enough to delay action. It has become the most common of an array of procedural maneuvers Senate Republicans have been employing to tie up Democrats trying to enact President Clinton's ambitious domestic agenda, including health care, crime and economic stimulus legislation.

"If it's not a senator objecting to your bill, then it's a senator amending your bill so that other people will object," says Karl Gawell, a lobbyist for the Wilderness Society. "In the past few years we've seen a real explosion in both the willingness and desire of people on Capitol Hill to get in each other's faces."

All this contentiousness has led House Democrats to take the unusual step of agitating for change in the way the "other body," conducts its business.

"We don't have the luxury of not butting in," Synar said. The rise in filibustering "is having an impact on the House. It doesn't do the House any good to move legislation on a variety of fronts only to have it die in the Senate."

Time to Retire the Filibuster

Published: January 1, 1995

Mr. Harkin, along with Senator Joseph Lieberman, a Connecticut Democrat, now proposes to make such obstruction harder. Mr. Harkin says reasonably that there must come a point in the process where the majority rules. This may not sit well with some of his Democratic colleagues. They are now perfectly positioned to exact revenge by frustrating the Republican agenda as efficiently as Republicans frustrated Democrats in 1994.

Admirably, Mr. Harkin says he does not want to do that. He proposes to change the rules so that if a vote for cloture fails to attract the necessary 60 votes, the number of votes needed to close off debate would be reduced by three in each subsequent vote. By the time the measure came to a fourth vote -- with votes occurring no more frequently than every second day -- cloture could be invoked with only a simple majority. Under the Harkin plan, minority members who feel passionately about a given measure could still hold it up, but not indefinitely.

Another set of reforms, more incremental but also useful, is proposed by George Mitchell, who is retiring as the Democratic majority leader. He wants to eat away at some of the more annoying kinds of brakes that can be applied to a measure along its legislative journey.

One example is the procedure for sending a measure to a conference committee with the House. Under current rules, unless the Senate consents unanimously to send a measure to conference, three separate motions can be required to move it along. This gives one senator the power to hold up a measure almost indefinitely. Mr. Mitchell would like to reduce the number of motions to one.

He would also like to limit the debate on a motion to two hours and count the time consumed by quorum calls against the debate time of a senator, thus encouraging senators to save their time for debating the substance of a measure rather than in obstruction. All of his suggestions seem reasonable, but his reforms would leave the filibuster essentially intact.

The Harkin plan, along with some of Mr. Mitchell's proposals, would go a long way toward making the Senate a more productive place to conduct the nation's business. Republicans surely dread the kind of obstructionism they themselves practiced during the last Congress. Now is the perfect moment for them to unite with like-minded Democrats to get rid of an archaic rule that frustrates democracy and serves no useful purpose.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Don't tell me what to do.

But okay:

I stand corrected, thank you good sir!

 

[120v]

I can't find this power in my copy of Article II.


The massive spike in cloture coincides with Harry Reid becoming Majority Leader more than Obama becoming President.

i worded it poorly.. i don't think the president has a "right" but when congress is being downright treasonous (which i think the current iteration is) i think it's his responsibility to work around it. and i don't think anything obama has done has been outright illegal except for the berghdal exchange, but even then i think that was the right thing to do. (and before somebody chirps in with drones and NSA, ect, those are actions are arguably legal, even though that aspect of the administration i'm opposed with)

 

[benjipwns]

when congress is being downright treasonous (which i think the current iteration is)

Never did find out from before who the enemies they were providing Comfort and Aid to were.

 

[DR2K]

Can't we just impeach the house?

 

[FiggyCal]

Fox News apparently thinks the 2008 financial meltdown was a great thing.

They just choose to ignore it. It's like 2001-2008 never existed.

 

[grumble]

Forgive me if I don't understand everything here, but isn't it actually true that the president both has a history of ignoring the republican house (with good reason...) and has abused the executive orders a bit? I mean the last few presidents have all been unconstitutional and that they were not removed from office is interesting, but don't they have a point?

 

[Punchy4486]

They just choose to ignore it. It's like 2001-2008 never existed.

Blaming Bush for everything again! When is this president going to take some responsibility?!?!

 

[Punchy4486]

Forgive me if I don't understand everything here, but isn't it actually true that the president both has a history of ignoring the republican house (with good reason...) and has abused the executive orders a bit? I mean the last few presidents have all been unconstitutional and that they were not removed from office is interesting, but don't they have a point?

History of ignoring the Republican house? No. For a while he was very communicative with them. It just went nowhere. There's tons of legislation he's left up to them that they've rejected over and over again too, like equal pay for women, some bare bones gun laws in the wake of Sandy Hook, and refinancing student loans so we're not punishing people seeking a higher education quite as much. These were all shot down, explicitly, because "these are pointless, and they'll just make the Democrats look good".

Abused the executive orders a bit? Probably here and there, the extent of the "abuse" being up to each individual, as you could argue that any executive order is an abuse. The majority of Obama's being starting up research groups and other innocuous things.

Edit: Sorry for the double post...

 

[SolarPowered]

Surprised I missed this thread. I'm guessing this will help Boehner with his tea party woes even if he won't go through with it.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Forgive me if I don't understand everything here, but isn't it actually true that the president both has a history of ignoring the republican house (with good reason...) and has abused the executive orders a bit? I mean the last few presidents have all been unconstitutional and that they were not removed from office is interesting, but don't they have a point?

You really should read them all, the link is on the first page of the thread. I really would like for someone to point out which of the 168 represent the most egregious abuses of power. Hell, I'd like it if Congress or the news did that before this farce of a trial proceeds.

 

[FiggyCal]

Forgive me if I don't understand everything here, but isn't it actually true that the president both has a history of ignoring the republican house (with good reason...) and has abused the executive orders a bit? I mean the last few presidents have all been unconstitutional and that they were not removed from office is interesting, but don't they have a point?

Abused executive orders in what way specifically? When you actually look at the number of executive orders under Obama compared to other presidents, it's not anything remarkable. Roosevelt set the bar high at 3500 executive orders, but Obama has yet to surpass Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, BIll Clinton or George Bush Jr. It is highly unlikely that Obama will ever surpass any of these presidents in the number of executive orders.

As far as overeaching in terms of the content of his executive orders; as far as I can tell no. You can actually go online and read what he's done. Some of the juicy one include:

Executive Order 13491 "Ensuring Lawful Interrogations"

Or

Executive Order 13657 "Changing the Name of the National Security Staff to the National Security Council Staff"

And awww shit

Executive Order 13660 "Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Ukraine"

Oh boy... He's really done it now... Absolutely pure tyranny this guy.

 

[KingK]

I still don't understand exactly what they're suing him for? The carbon regulations were already deemed legal by the Supreme Court, iirc, so what else? Allowing immigrants who arrived here as children to stay? Not enforcing homophobic legislation? I can't think of any of his high profile executive orders that are very unpopular, so I don't see how this doesn't backfire on the GOP once they have to get into specifics.

Indiana is midwest's Florida.

Truth.

ah i have cousins i hang with in Minneapolis every summer i like the city, that's the only part i've been in though.

I'm assuming you meant Indianapolis? Minneapolis is in Minnesota lol.

Indy is a pretty nice city. Most of the rest of the state sucks though, in my experience.

 

[zychi]

So this is the GOP's new "nuh uh obama is shutting down the govt" bullshit theyre trying to pull?

Maybe come up with a competent person to run in 2016, instead of whining and throwing tantrums for a president who really has accomplished all he can because of the stubborn children running the house and gop.

Regardless who you vote for, this country is fucked because how fucking selfish and stubborn the baby boomers have become in office.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Abused executive orders in what way specifically? When you actually look at the number of executive orders under Obama compared to other presidents, it's not anything remarkable. Roosevelt set the bar high at 3500 executive orders, but Obama has yet to surpass Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, BIll Clinton or George Bush Jr. It is highly unlikely that Obama will ever surpass any of these presidents in the number of executive orders.

As far as overeaching in terms of the content of his executive orders; as far as I can tell no. You can actually go online and read what he's done. Some of the juicy one include:


Or

And awww shit

Oh boy... He's really done it now... Absolutely pure tyranny this guy.

Out of curiosity, I went to the whitehouse.gov webpage regarding executive orders and its...how so I put this, a lot of fairly mundane barely controversial stuff. The way people are speaking of abusing executive orders, what's the orders people are up in arms about? There's like 160+ of them you can read through on the site.

Executive Order 13513 --Federal Leadership on Reducing Text Messaging while Driving

You big meanie!

 

[FiggyCal]

So this is the GOP's new "nuh uh obama is shutting down the govt" bullshit theyre trying to pull?

Maybe come up with a competent person to run in 2016, instead of whining and throwing tantrums for a president who really has accomplished all he can because of the stubborn children running the house and gop.

Regardless who you vote for, this country is fucked because how fucking selfish and stubborn the baby boomers have become in office.

I can only hope that it backfires on them. That the American people are wise enough to realize that they've never been threatened by the so called "abusive and overreaching extent of Obama's tyrannous executive orders" until the GOP told them that they were.

I can only hope that they realize that this is a farce set up by Boehner and his conservative compatriots to make themselves look better for the 2014 elections and not something he actually expects to go anywhere.

I can only hope enough voters realize that it's simply not possible for there to be an actual scandal every month of Obama's presidency and how the first 60 or so of the "scandals" had not passed the test of time -- most don't make it past the surface.

I can only hope that the reliable media actually make a detailed analysis of Obama's executive orders and dismiss this lawsuit as ridiculous right away rather than put on the usual play of "we have to hear both sides".

I hate to sound like Alex Jones, but: It's a false flag operation! You're getting played sheeple!

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I can only hope that it backfires on them. That the American people are wise enough to realize that they've never been threatened by the so called "abusive and overreaching extent of Obama's tyrannous executive orders" until the GOP told them that they were.

I can only hope that they realize that this is a farce set up by Boehner and his conservative compatriots to make themselves look better for the 2014 elections and not something he actually expects to go anywhere.

I can only hope enough voters realize that it's simply not possible for there to be an actual scandal every month of Obama's presidency and how the first 60 or so of the "scandals" had not passed the test of time -- most don't make it past the surface.

I can only hope that the reliable media actually make a detailed analysis of Obama's executive orders and dismiss this lawsuit as ridiculous right away rather than put on the usual play of "we have to hear both sides".

I hate to sound like Alex Jones, but: It's a false flag operation! You're getting played sheeple!

I wish I still had hope.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

 

[GaimeGuy]

This is just another way the GOP is pushing the "Obama is a Marxist Socialist Communist Nazi weak-spined war-mongering hippie dictator baby-killing unamerican kenyan tyrant muslim atheist radical-christian-preacher-having

Spoiler

nigger

" angle.

 

[Punchy4486]

I can only hope that it backfires on them. That the American people are wise enough to realize that they've never been threatened by the so called "abusive and overreaching extent of Obama's tyrannous executive orders" until the GOP told them that they were.

I can only hope that they realize that this is a farce set up by Boehner and his conservative compatriots to make themselves look better for the 2014 elections and not something he actually expects to go anywhere.

I can only hope enough voters realize that it's simply not possible for there to be an actual scandal every month of Obama's presidency and how the first 60 or so of the "scandals" had not passed the test of time -- most don't make it past the surface.

I can only hope that the reliable media actually make a detailed analysis of Obama's executive orders and dismiss this lawsuit as ridiculous right away rather than put on the usual play of "we have to hear both sides".

I hate to sound like Alex Jones, but: It's a false flag operation! You're getting played sheeple!

Do people still talk about, remember, and blame the Republicans for shutting down the government and costing the US billions in revenue over a hissy fit just 8 short months ago? Or has that all pretty much been forgotten in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl, Benghazi, Hillary being rich, executive orders!!1!

I have no hope.

 

[Acorn]

Isn't the point in having a president that they can take some actions unilaterally?

 

[KingK]

I can only hope that it backfires on them. That the American people are wise enough to realize that they've never been threatened by the so called "abusive and overreaching extent of Obama's tyrannous executive orders" until the GOP told them that they were.

I can only hope that they realize that this is a farce set up by Boehner and his conservative compatriots to make themselves look better for the 2014 elections and not something he actually expects to go anywhere.

I can only hope enough voters realize that it's simply not possible for there to be an actual scandal every month of Obama's presidency and how the first 60 or so of the "scandals" had not passed the test of time -- most don't make it past the surface.

I can only hope that the reliable media actually make a detailed analysis of Obama's executive orders and dismiss this lawsuit as ridiculous right away rather than put on the usual play of "we have to hear both sides".

I hate to sound like Alex Jones, but: It's a false flag operation! You're getting played sheeple!

Most people won't fall for it, true. Only the ~30% of the country that makes up the rabid Tea Party base and votes in Republican primaries will eat this shit up. But it also won't hurt the Republicans for more than a couple weeks, because swing voters either wont' give shit or will completely forget about it immediately after just like when they shut down the government. So it helps them with their base, and won't hurt them long term for anyone except liberals who never would have voted for them anyway. America is just always so damn eager to forgive Republicans for whatever bullshit they pull, as that foreign policy graph posted earlier shows.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Isn't the point in having a president that they can take some actions unilaterally?

Yes. Otherwise we'd have a parliamentary system.

 

[Jimothy]

I really want a GOP congressman to just call Obama a nigger and get it over with. They're not fooling anyone.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Amazing.

Amazing.

 

[dabig2]

Do people still talk about, remember, and blame the Republicans for shutting down the government and costing the US billions in revenue over a hissy fit just 8 short months ago? Or has that all pretty much been forgotten in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl, Benghazi, Hillary being rich, executive orders!!1!

I have no hope.

Loooooool, you kidding me? That lasted all of a week or two due to WEBSITE GATE.

 

[Punchy4486]

Loooooool, you kidding me? That lasted all of a week or two due to WEBSITE GATE.

Hey man, that website was broken. Website broken = health care reform broken.

It's science.

 

[Drkirby]

It's already been done on gas

I don't remember gas being that cheap =/

It really was that cheap for a while, it didn't really start to rebound for a few more years. The 2008 Crash also crashed gas prices.

 

[muleyman13]

has anyone read about this ruling yet? http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...reme-court-obama-senate-appointments/8528059/

 

[Link]

has anyone read about this ruling yet? http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...reme-court-obama-senate-appointments/8528059/

In the end, it's moot now that the filibuster for appointments has been nuked. Congress was using all sorts of tricks to avoid a recess for the very purpose of not allowing Obama to make nominations. Something had to be done. He'll just go back and renominate his selections.

 

[The Technomancer]

ah i have cousins i hang with in Minneapolis every summer i like the city, that's the only part i've been in though.

Indiana is the South of the Midwest

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

HEADLINE: House Republicans Want Even Less To Get Done.

 

[Loki]

Funny that they'd file such a suit only now when ":executive orders" have been bullshit for decades now.

 

[pants]

I really want a GOP congressman to just call Obama a nigger and get it over with. They're not fooling anyone.

This is the impression I get whenever americans talk politics. I dont understand how the republican party can even exist at this point.