Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Man, that is retarded. No wonder devs put out massive patches and then never release ones to fix smaller problems if that's the case.
Stumpokapow said:That's absolutely true. Steam on day one was significantly worse than GFWL today... of course, Steam on day one was also significantly worse than Steam today, so I'm not really sure that the angle is for the comparison.
For all the people saying "I have no idea what anyone is complaining about", here are the major issues with GFWL:
Stumpokapow said:That's absolutely true. Steam on day one was significantly worse than GFWL today... of course, Steam on day one was also significantly worse than Steam today, so I'm not really sure that the angle is for the comparison.
For all the people saying "I have no idea what anyone is complaining about", here are the major issues with GFWL:
- Profile issues. Signing in on a profile on Xbox 360 (or booting up a 360 if the profile is set to auto sign-in) will kick you out of a game on GFWL. This is true, of course, with Steam on multiple computers (or MSN or a lot of other user profile things), but it's much more likely to be triggered in a 2+ person household with a 360 and a PC.
Rad- said:I don't get the GFWL hate. Has always worked fine for me. I think people don't remember what a mess Steam was when it launched. Much worse than GFWL currently.
Stumpokapow said:For all the people saying "I have no idea what anyone is complaining about", here are the major issues with GFWL:
Max said:Zero problems with GFWL for me.
Stumpkapow said:*a wall of text*
azentium said:Are Bulletstorm and Fable 3 the only GFWL titles slated for next year?
Sectus said:As someone who IS annoyed with Steam (I run it rarely enough that most times I run it I have to update it, keeping a browser integrated with it is insanely stupid and probably the main reason it takes so much ram, I can't change where games are installed, and it keeps downloading random stuff without asking my permission), I find GFWL to be quite okay. I've never run into any issues in using it. The only really big annoyance I have with GFWL isn't directly related to me as customer, but it's all the stupid limitations Microsoft enforces on developers. Like the meaningless player/ranked split in matchmaking. Or the 3 week long certification on patches (and how publishers need to pay for it). The 8KB/s limit on bandwidth for netcode. And the 5mb limit on patches.
Stumpokapow said:- GFWL is not free for developers, Steamworks is totally 100% free.
- Ongoing support. Compare Valve's record and Microsoft's record on improving their products on PC and innovating features on PC. If Microsoft launches the Xbox 720, will they drop GFWL again? They laid off most of the team at one point and cancelled in-progress PC ports and didn't greenlight anything new for ages. I don't doubt the sincerity of Microsoft's current commitment (just like I don't doubt the sincerity of their current commitment to IE, for example), but there's nothing stopping them from just cutting and running when corporate priorities shift, and there's virtually no chance of that happening with Valve. I don't think this will involve, say, discontinuing activation servers or closing up shop, but I do think this will involve periods of stagnation if the product is not given favoured son status. Also, remember that Microsoft tried unsuccessfully to charge money for multiplayer on PC. While I commend them for fixing that error, I don't think there's anything precluding them from trying again in the future--they discontinued it because it was unpopular, not because they recognized that it was a bad idea. Valve will never charge for multiplayer
Now, the advantages of GFWL:
- You get to buy things using Microsoft points. This isn't actually an advantage, because you can use a scrip system on Steam, you have more payment options on Steam than on GFWL, the sale benefit of being able to accumulate cheap points for MS purchases is more than eclipsed by Steam's more aggressive sales, etc.
- You earn achievements that earn Microsoft gamerscore. Of course there are still achievements on Steam, Valve offers developers more flexibility with implementing, changing, and adding them, and nothing is really different. Is this an advantage? Yes, for people who care about their gamerscore. But really it boils down to "We're Microsoft, bitch" and I'm not sure how the 360 version doesn't cover that.
- You get to message back and forth with your Microsoft friends. Is this an advantage? It is if most of your friends are on the 360. It isn't if most of your friends are on Steam. If your friends are on both, it's neither an advantage nor a disadvantage, although personally I prefer Steam chat to MS messages, because I can continue the conversation when I finish playing the game I'm playing.
What all three advantages have in common is that they're all "If you love Microsoft and want to surround yourself with Microsoft's version of everything, use Microsoft Games for Windows Live for your Microsoft needs". Which is fine, but you guys should consider that all of those Microsoft things are true for the 360 version, and if this game didn't use GFWL, you guys would buy the 360 version. That's totally cool and all, but since you were going to buy the Microsoft version regardless, the rest of us are stuck with the disadvantages and don't necessarily make use of these advantages!
Ogs said:Trailer on Gametrailers also shows the GFWL logo on it, and BigDownload are saying Epic confirmed its used for the PC version.
zlatko said:No Steam version of a PC game is idiotic in this day and age. It's like trying to sell it with a turd inside the box encasing the disc itself.
True but the MP part of the game makes it unplayable if your used to pc standards like seeing your ping and joining a server.......Struct09 said:I'm fine with this, I've enjoyed having GFWL with single-player PC games (can talk to my XBL friends + achievements). Luckily I haven't had any problems with the service.
SonOfABeep said:the majority of epic's fanbase at this moment in time is more familiar with live achievements and a live friends list.
There's no reason for them not to support GFWL.
Does anyone have proof that MS pays people to use GFWL?
Cause I would think that it's more likely that Epic has to pay MS a licensing fee for use of their servers, their client, and their advertising structure.
Stumpokapow said:Depends on how you use it. For example, want to patch your game? First patch is free. Next patch is thousands of dollars. I believe initial releases have to go through cert, which also costs money, as well. As far as I know, matchmaking remains free for developers. Someone who has experience making a game with GFWL can clarify.
Valve charges $0 for Steamworks, $0 for using any feature of Steamworks, $0 for issuing new content, $0 for issuing two thousand five hundred patches, etc.
It will Codemasters are really out of touch with the PC audience. They're one of the last holdouts that I've identified.Dilly said:I just hope Dirt 3 won't be GFWL anymore.
Which is weird because they are one dev who continually supports DX11 in a significant way.Visualante said:It will Codemasters are really out of touch with the PC audience. They're one of the last holdouts that I've identified.
RiverBed said:Why is the title saying 'to use' GfWL? Shouldn't it be 'available on' as in a DD store just like if you were to say 'available on Steam' for instance, or am I missing something with GfWL?
I really don't know anything about GfWL except that it is a DD store (like other DD stores?).
bhlaab said:Not really looking forward to any sort of multiplayer (does this game even have mp?) and if it can't authenticate I wouldn't feel too bad about cracking a game I legitimately paid for.
Demigod Mac said:My experience playing Batman Arkham Asylum on GFWL:
Launch game
Enter serial key
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game
Launch game again
Enter serial key (wat?)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game
Launch game YET AGAIN
Enter serial key (OK, what the hell)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game
<head explodes>
Launch game
Enter serial key (fffffffff.....)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Play game.
What about when the 360/GFWL codec update crashed multiplayer games? Patch to fix it had to go through MS Cert. Took a while. :lolDraft said:GFWL sucks as a store and as a service, but otherwise, I've found it relatively harmless. It never really got in the way of playing Street Fighter IV, Bioshock 2 or Warhammer 40k.
Demigod Mac said:My experience playing Batman Arkham Asylum on GFWL:
Launch game
Enter serial key
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game
Launch game again
Enter serial key (wat?)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game
Launch game YET AGAIN
Enter serial key (OK, what the hell)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game
<head explodes>
Launch game
Enter serial key (fffffffff.....)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Play game.
Not to mention the fact that there's no voice chat in Shadowrun (which they just promoted 2 weeks ago!!!) because they borked the audio codecs. Well I'm sure the developers can just...oh wait. Microsoft canned them.Lyphen said:What about when the 360/GFWL codec update crashed multiplayer games? Patch to fix it had to go through MS Cert. Took a while. :lol