Taser at 35 feet is far enough to pull your lethal should it not work.
A consumer grade taser got like ~15 feet.
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Campus police shoot and kill LGBT activist armed with knife at university
- Thread starter Enter The 36 Chambers
- Start date
A consumer grade taser got like ~15 feet.
It's amazing how in other countries cops routinely arrest and disable armed criminals. In here we recently had an actual terrorist who was disabled with a shot into the leg minutes from the call to the police.
I guess US cops are either less skilled or just love killing people.
Or, straight up comparing these cases, maybe in this college student with a swiss army knife was more threatening than an islamic terrorist slaughtering people on the street with a huge knife.
I guess US cops are either less skilled or just love killing people.
Or, straight up comparing these cases, maybe in this college student with a swiss army knife was more threatening than an islamic terrorist slaughtering people on the street with a huge knife.
cromofo
Member
I did. Looked more closer when the gunshot went off.
Did they have one? If they did, perhaps one could've used it and the other cop could've been a back up with his sidearm.
Gravy Boat
Member
The officer still had the option of backing up, he just chose to shoot. He didn't need to, he just chose to.
It doesn't seem like they do, which to me raise other questions. As campus security you usually deal with drunk people or just idiot kids so having a taser as a resolution should be mandatory equipment.
cromofo
Member
The view is obstructed but I read that the female officer was backed in a corner?
All in all, I'd love if it had been resolved relatively peacefully. I'm sure there are plenty cases where it is resolved peacefully but you mostly hear the ones where the person gets shot and killed.
Shitty situation but I won't blame the officer.
Nope, even in Australia you get shot. A lot of morons arm chair policing here.
Here is a story where german police disarmed a knife wielding man with pepperspray. Link in German.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Stop with the stupid examples. We've been proven, time and again, in this very thread, that shooting dead sick people wielding pliers is the only sensible solution.
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/p...chiesst-nackten-im-neptunbrunnen/8420008.html
And the other way around.
It's not always an easy choice and I'm glad I don't have to make a decision like that, but it always depends on the situation.
And here are four stories where German police shot someone wielding a knife:
https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article160965730/Polizist-erschiesst-Messer-Angreifer-auf-Wache.html
https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article163744642/Polizei-erschiesst-bewaffneten-Mann-in-Herne.html
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellsc...messer-angreifer-in-reha-klinik-15001258.html
http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/s...ten-mann-auf-duisburger-wache_id_6462145.html
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Already been stated a thousand times for sure, but from the sound of things, this individual was was being antagonistic towards cops. With that said, (also already stated) where the hell were the non-lethal disarming methods? What is going on with cops?
I feel like most people at this point would opt for poking sticks at a beehive rather than test their luck with a cop.
I feel like most people at this point would opt for poking sticks at a beehive rather than test their luck with a cop.
They were responding to a potential active shooter. Had the person not called it in and said they had a gun, they'd probably still be alive.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The police could've just as well being responding to a tank-attack signal. Nothing on-site demonstrated the person had a gun. Heck, they didn't even have a proper knife.
Amory
Member
This is ridiculous.Just got an alert from campus to Seek Shelter Immediately
Pictures of rioting happening at the Vigil for Scout. Getting pictures of a car on fire by the Campus Police Station. Shit is going crazy.
EDIT: Yeah, looks like people set a police car on fire. Entire Campus is shut down.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
To the people shrugging off the danger of knife attacks, I'll leave this here.
NSFW *WARNING* MIGHT BE DISTURBING.
Police attacked and killed.. First cop got dropped in a second..
https://youtu.be/CZn3jGJY3u8
This stuff is NO JOKE people.
I'm sure that their good intentions and naive nature caused the ones that got killed their lives here. This is why cops shouldn't fuck around with a knife wielding bastard.
NSFW *WARNING* MIGHT BE DISTURBING.
Police attacked and killed.. First cop got dropped in a second..
https://youtu.be/CZn3jGJY3u8
This stuff is NO JOKE people.
I'm sure that their good intentions and naive nature caused the ones that got killed their lives here. This is why cops shouldn't fuck around with a knife wielding bastard.
There didn't seem like much risk in the video, the cops were pretty far back
PersonAndStuff
Member
I would imagine that pepper spray would be a bad idea as that has a limited range and may not bring her down fast enough if she goes in to do damage. I would assume a tazer would work just fine but I don't know.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Have you seen the Schultz shooting video? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeSzAJv6naY
Victim was shot at first approach to an officer, from ~7m distance, judging by the muzzle flash seen through the foileage.
ReplacementPelican
Member
Nobody is shrugging off the danger, they're saying the police should be better prepared and know how to be able to deal with situations like this without shooting someone, example as per was posted above your post:
That and your example is quite different to the video of this situation.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Could the cops have ended this non-lethally? Probably. That said, I'm not going to condemn them outright when the person in question orchestrated the entire scenario. If it was merely a mentally ill person brandishing a knife, I might have more sympathy for this person and would have expected the cops to attempt a non-lethal take down. But it wasn't just that. This person had the forethought to call the police on themselves, report a gun, and then advance on the cops after ignoring repeated instructions to drop the knife and not move. That may not be rational, but it's calculated. They ensured to a moral certainty that this would end fatally.
Seeing this protest/riot after the fact is just insane and sad. The crowd marching have signs about protecting LBGT people, as if that's why this person died. Unless when they called the cops they included "and by the way, the gunman is LGBT!" I can't even fathom how people would think it has anything to do with the outcome. Or maybe I'm mistaken and it's common place for LGBT people on this campus to be routinely shot by campus police even when they aren't brandishing knives at people.
Seeing this protest/riot after the fact is just insane and sad. The crowd marching have signs about protecting LBGT people, as if that's why this person died. Unless when they called the cops they included "and by the way, the gunman is LGBT!" I can't even fathom how people would think it has anything to do with the outcome. Or maybe I'm mistaken and it's common place for LGBT people on this campus to be routinely shot by campus police even when they aren't brandishing knives at people.
I was "counseled" after that incident because I didn't use proper proper force. It was an unofficial meeting about wondering why I didn't use lethal force when our use of force continuum shows that I could have legally. Most officers probably would have pulled their service weapon and shot that guy. Several watched the bodycam footage and were shocked at what happened. The guy literally stopped with a couple feet with the bat cocked back to swing. It was loud in there, and it happened so fast. When he saw the tazer pointing at him, he stopped. Thank God for that. They guys watching it, reached for their guns! That's how stressful that shit was. Crazy.
I chose the option I chose, whether or not it was the best option is a matter of opinion I guess. It definitely was what I thought was the best option to try and not kill this guy. I have known him for 10 years and dealt with him and his mental capacity dozens of times over that decade. My experience with him helped I guess.
Looking over this incident, I would have kept going back until there wasn't any other option. If that officer that fired their weapon didn't have any more room to go back, then I can understand completely why it ended when it did. If there was still room to retreat safely while keeping Scout in a controllable distance, that's what I would have done.
Because not a lot of departments have all those resources. So, if they don't have it, well, they can't use it eh?
BS. There isn't a distance requirement for risk. That person was a risk from the start. Not only to themselves, but to the public, and the officers.
Trying to use a taser further than 15ft away is not very reliable. A lot of departments use 15 or 21ft cartridges. Shooting the taser at 15ft. gives you just over a two foot spread. That in itself isn't very accurate for a medium size body. Trying to use one at 35ft would be dumb. Five to ten feet max has a higher percent of accuracy.
I've been shot with the Taser X26 at least two dozen times. The differences were ridiculous. Sometimes full contact was made, sometimes it wasn't. Sometimes the probes didn't completely penetrate my regular clothing. Never was I immobilized beyond 15ft.
Do we know that for sure at this point? I haven't seen any video that shows there was more space when the shot was fired. If there was more space, then I agree 100%.
fabricated backlash
Member
Given the lax selection criteria and abysmal de-escalation training of US cops, it's no wonder they shoot so often.
Just a tragic situation all around.
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm in no way intending to downplay how stressfull such situations are, nor how dangerous. Cops have a dangerous line of work, which is why proper and rigorous training is so important. Not just for the safety of those they are sworn to protect, but also their own.
Just a tragic situation all around.
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm in no way intending to downplay how stressfull such situations are, nor how dangerous. Cops have a dangerous line of work, which is why proper and rigorous training is so important. Not just for the safety of those they are sworn to protect, but also their own.
Well, I mentioned a news story earlier where non-US cops shot in the leg a machete wielding islamic terrorist who'd just stabbed 8 people and then arrested him, alive.
Does one story trump another?
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Hopefully they get caught and sent to jail for a long time.Just got an alert from campus to Seek Shelter Immediately
Pictures of rioting happening at the Vigil for Scout. Getting pictures of a car on fire by the Campus Police Station. Shit is going crazy.
EDIT: Yeah, looks like people set a police car on fire. Entire Campus is shut down.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's logical. The police took a life unnecessarily, and people tend to have a problem with that. If the police had used humane and reasonable methods in this instance, there would be no riot.
None of these examples are even relevant to what happened in the ga tech incident. This can go on for a long time finding cases that have some of the same elements, but NONE of them are identical. That's the problem with trying to use other incidents to prove a point.
This is a unique incident, just like each of those other examples are unique.
Gravy Boat
Member
There was no immediate risk. Unless they can lunge 10-15 feet faster than someone can pull the trigger there was no need to shoot. And yes, from the video there is room to circle around the individual, no one was trapped or at any immediate risk of getting stabbed. Nothing was happening that required any of the officers to shoot, nothing was preventing them from waiting the situation out.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Because mentally unstable and/or ill people are known for their common sense.
TheExecutive
Member
What a joke. A small person can still kill a large person with a knife. How naive are you?
TheExecutive
Member
Good questions. I don't know what they are equipped with but they had to be equipped with non-Lethal measures.
its absolutely critical that we get officers de-escalation training and confrontation techniques. I see no reason this person isn't alive today.
The cops didn't do anything wrong according to the law but they also didn't do a lot of things right.
I disagree about the risk. The only thing that stops the risk is if the threat is eliminated. Whether by de-escalation or force.
All I can really say is, again, I would have done everything I could until there wasn't any other option that keeps myself, my partner, and anyone else in the area safe, before using deadly force.
TheExecutive
Member
That's not how it works.
Charles Brandon
Member
It's how it should work and how it does work elsewhere.
That's on a personal level though. Show me a department that requires its officers to unnecessarily risk their own life to save another. Not happening. It's quite the contrary.
Everyone here arguing for the "just a knife" argument does realize that the police had been told (by Scout) that a gun was also potentially in play here, right? The campus police were told (by Scout) that there was a gun on the person. So "running away" to get the appropriate equipment meant letting someone who is very clearly mentally unstable and wielding one weapon while claiming to have a gun run around campus for 10-15 minutes.
Apparently the safety of all of the other students is completely irrelevant.
Apparently the safety of all of the other students is completely irrelevant.
I'll take this is two parts..
One, they won't ever run away. Once the police have arrived, they don't run away.
Two, being told there is a gun, while alarming, doesn't matter much if you don't see it. That's for me anyways. Regarding this case, they didn't reach for a gun, and as far as I can tell, there wasn't any apparent concern about the gun at this point.
Why would you doubt that a lot of harm could be done with a knife?
Raptomex
Member
I question this, too. I brought it up once in regards to a cop shooting a kid wielding knives at a school a while back and was shot down pretty quick. Apparently "it won't work, the cop is a hero". Okay, but I still don't understand why.
No country has that as their policy. It is absolutely disgusting to try and argue that police officer's lives matter less than other's lives. Like, that is some seriously disgusting stuff that I would expect to be ban-worthy.
I thought that poster was making a dismissive or cruel statement about the deceased's state of mind, not their pronoun choice. A completely unrelated and contrary point. Apologies if I misinterpreted but I'm still not sure.
Not really.
America is a country where there are more guns than people. The latter point cannot be their default handling of a situation where they've been told about a gun.
There should be a law that if a person is brandishing a gun or something thst looks like a gun, u can shjoot to kill. But if it's a blunt weapon and or a knife or machete, thst you must use non lethal means to disarm the bandit.
Like if someone is holding a knife in sure a taser would force them to drop the knife n shit
Like if someone is holding a knife in sure a taser would force them to drop the knife n shit
Zoe
Member
And when they don't have a taser?