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[Beefy]

The video has me hating this shit even more. Them just walked slowly towards the cop and the cop couldn't be fucked to back up. Training is the biggest issue in this death big time.

 

[Kill3r7]

It's what I just posted - macho American bullshit doesn't allow for a tactical retreat. The police should surround the suspect and move their cordon with knife wielder until either the suspect stops or you have the proper equipment.

Keep in mind these are campus police. Their job usually is to break up fights or deal with drunk college kids.

 

[HariKari]

So taser then.

Tasers aren't at all reliable, unfortunately.

The person in the video got extremely close by police standards. A knife wielder can cover a lot of ground in the time it takes to fire a shot. They can also just bolt the other way and go after innocent people. There's no such thing as a perfect cordon, and campus police are doubly liable for anything that goes wrong.

 

[patapuf]

This really needs to be restated. Disarming is something that's incredibly dangerous to do, and would just as likely result in the police getting stabbed as not getting stabbed. The police are no in the job to risk their own life.

Also let's not miss the point that these guys are campus police. They're not highly trained agents of the law. They're basically there to bully young people into not pissing on the buildings while drunk.

Keep in mind these are campus police. Their job usually is to break up fights or deal with drunk college kids.

If they aren't trained they shouldn't have guns.

 

[HighResTomato]

Looks to me like they gave the activist enough opportunity to drop the knife.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD1XePJ3syw

 

[N21]

Unfortunately, when a piercing weapon is involved, there's only one way it can end in a close counter standoff.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

Do you think the cops wanted to kill him?

Law enforcement tactics in the US are messed up, I agree. But I'm not going to blame a cop for killing a knife-wielding unstable person that continue charge forward boldly, and not standing down.

I am. They are dangerous racist devils who are completely incompetent and incapable of policing properly. Fuck blue lives and fuck all cops. They are dangerous and not who you should ever call in an emergency.

 

[Cyframe]

So was it or wasn't it a knife because conflicting reports are coming out. Second, I have no faith in police when it comes to matters of dealing with the mentally ill. They nearly killed a caretaker of a person who is autistic because the truck they saw was a gun, even after they were told that it wasn't by the person they forced to the ground and then shot.

There need to be more non-lethal options and better mental health negotiation skills. I certainly don't want them to have military grade weapons. Suicide by cop shouldn't be thrown away so casually.

 

[Savitar]

A rule of thumb is not to go against someone with a weapon, whatever the weapon. Also gun trumps knife. She should have stood down, and the cops should have various means worked out for this by now. But when it's all said and done I'm not going to fault them for this case when the girl was at fault for repeatedly not listening.

 

[TyrantII]

Small 21 year old student approaches group of muscular police officers with a knife.

Explain exactly why they had to use a gun? They might get a cut on their arm, or something? Ridiculous police work from America as always.

Hope you never have to deal with someone attacking you with a knife. Good luck if it happens.

 

[Sevenfold]

You grab a knife out of a highly unstable person's hands without ending up in the emergency room. Go on try it, I'll wait.

So either go in and wrestle the blade from them or kill them. There is no other option. Ok.

I dunno. I guess it's my UK centric viewpoint given we have knife crime and unarmed police.

Words are pretty good too, though less effective when being projected from a gun toting uniform.

 

[kwogfaf]

I go to tech. Every day I walk by the spot where this happened. Scout had been suicidal for a while and this was how they decided to end it (I didn't know them personally, but this is what people who did are saying).

Of course in an ideal world the police could have ended this without death, but the fact is GTPD do not have tasers, and had no other options in this situation. It's also worth noting that this is the first time in GT history an officer has fired a weapon.

If you watch the video you'll see a solid minute of the police asking Scout to drop the weapon while they yell "just shoot me." Then they approached the police officers knife in hand. I can't really fault the officers in this situation. if you want to fault the general lack of non-lethal preparedness in US police then absolutely, but this isn't the usual police brutality case.

 

[Infinite]

this person didnt have to die. cops are a fucking embarrassment.

 

[entremet]

It's what I just posted - macho American bullshit doesn't allow for a tactical retreat. The police should surround the suspect and move their cordon with knife wielder until either the suspect stops or you have the proper equipment.

According to the article, they did back off. The attacker kept going forward.

The issue isn't just tactical retreat but making sure the attacker doesn't attack other people as well.

I go to tech. Every day I walk by the spot where this happened. Scout had been suicidal for a while and this was how they decided to end it (I didn't know them personally, but this is what people who did are saying).

Of course in an ideal world the police could have ended this without death, but the fact is GTPD do not have tasers, and had no other options in this situation. It's also worth noting that this is the first time in GT history an officer has fired a weapon.

If you watch the video you'll see a solid minute of the police asking Scout to drop the weapon while they yell "just shoot me." Then they approached the police officers knife in hand. I can't really fault the officers in this situation. if you want to fault the general lack of non-lethal preparedness in US police then absolutely, but this isn't the usual police brutality case.

I think your last sentence is what I mostly agree with.

”We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training."

And this is what happened here. Should something be done about this in terms of training? Absolutely.

 

[Night.Ninja]

Police didn't need to kill him but then the person didn't need to be a ass

 

[Beefy]

Looks to me like they gave the activist enough opportunity to drop the knife.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD1XePJ3syw

Seems to me the cop couldn't be fucked to walk back anymore.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Couldn't they let themselves be stabbed once or twice just to make sure the attacker was really serious before responding with deadly force?

Please, the person in the video's hardly "charging" more like walking around slowly asking to be shot.

For one of those officers to have gotten stabbed would have been an act of God.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Tasers aren't at all reliable, unfortunately.

The person in the video got extremely close by police standards. A knife wielder can cover a lot of ground in the time it takes to fire a shot. They can also just bolt the other way and go after innocent people. There's no such thing as a perfect cordon, and campus police are doubly liable for anything that goes wrong.

The best we can hope for is the campus police to reevaluate how they handle these certain situations cuz it's clear they have never dealt with this.

Other cops have successfully taken down dangerous people without killing. And they were far more dangerous than this kid. It's not impossible.

 

[Beefy]

According to the article, they did back off. The attacker kept going forward.

The issue isn't just tactical retreat but making sure the attacker doesn't attack other people as well.

The video shows different. They backed of a lil then stopped, as I said it would have been handled way different by better trained police.

 

[Beartruck]

To get some off of the Hollywood trip, this is the reality of knife attacks if someone gets near you:

This vs. pepper spray, good luck.

I counted about 8 stabs in 3 seconds. Jeezus.

 

[MUnited83]

Small 21 year old student approaches group of muscular police officers with a knife.

Explain exactly why they had to use a gun? They might get a cut on their arm, or something? Ridiculous police work from America as always.

If a knife has all the person had, they didn't have to use a gun at all. Anyone who thinks this was justified is a fucking idiot. Countries with decent police systems manage to restrain people with knifes just fine. Don't make excuses for trigger-happy idiots with shit training.

 

[Astral Dog]

RIP

For no reason

 

[F34R]

The police here in Ireland don't even carry guns and they have to deal with the same situations. There are other ways to incapacitate people.

to the people who say "what should the police have done"....

i say... not fucking shoot ? they only had a knife.... how do cops works in other countries when faced with this situation? Some policeforce never wear guns... Do they let themselves be killed by the knife? OF COURSE NOT, they have tasers, and many other ways to disarm the person holding the knife

there's no freaking excuse, even if it's suicide by cops here... i mean other cops even in america mange to disarms this kind of treats without guns....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfMcjRWESVA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW6nSGqQoao

If they don't have guns, then they have to deal with it a different way. I wish people would stop pretending that every situation is the exact same thing as any other encounter. Goodness.

This person having a knife is the exact same thing as any other person having a knife, and should be completely dealt with the exact same way as any other situation since they are all the same. This persons mentality is exactly the same, the outcomes would all be exactly the same, so these cops should have used youtube for training to see how all the other exactly same situations were deal with exactly the same way.

 

[Dandy Lyin]

This really needs to be restated. Disarming is something that's incredibly dangerous to do, and would just as likely result in the police getting stabbed as not getting stabbed. The police are no in the job to risk their own life.

Also let's not miss the point that these guys are campus police. They're not highly trained agents of the law. They're basically there to bully young people into not pissing on the buildings while drunk.

Then they really shouldn't be armed with deadly weapons.

 

[Kill3r7]

If they aren't trained they shouldn't have guns.

They probably did not until campus shootings became a thing.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Please, the person in the video's hardly "charging" more like walking around slowly asking to be shot.

For one of those officers to have gotten stabbed would have been an act of God.

And why is that? Because they employed sensible tactics rather than the armchair bullshit that people are advocating for here.

 

[patapuf]

The police are a long way away from military training. They might look the part but the training is not there. A military trained individual can pin down and keep several cops at bay simply by relying on their training.

Eh, police school takes - at least - 2 years where i live. That's plenty to learn how to deal with stressful situations.

They probably did not until campus shootings became a thing.

Then train them. You don't give a weapon to untrained individuals. At least not in an official capacity.

 

[Hissing Sid]

The police are a long way away from military training. They might look the part but the training is not there. A military trained individual can pin down and keep several cops at bay simply by relying on their training.

Yeah I wasn't trying to equate their level of training with that of a soldier but rather I was shocked at how military-like some of their uniforms and attitudes were.

I mean surely the uniform molds the mind to a certain extent? If you're dressed like a soldier walking around the streets with loaded firearms then perhaps subconsciously the mental safety catch is a little looser when it comes to confrontations with anyone not wearing the same uniform, i.e. The enemy.

Probably a bit far fetched, I just find the faux military garb to be a bit troubling.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Clearly this person was not in their right mind. When you advance on police with a weapon, you get shot.

If the police are badly trained sure. Plenty of cases of police subduing wife wielding lunatics mostly unharmed all over the world.

 

[Risto]

Couldn't they let themselves be stabbed once or twice just to make sure the attacker was really serious before responding with deadly force?

You are being sarcastic but this is how some of the comments sound. The police chief I brought up a few posts back has like 7 kids. One of which is a daughter who is a state champion wrestler. I've met her, awesome kid. Let's not forget these officers have families and children.

 

[RMI]

Seems to me the cop couldn't be fucked to walk back anymore.

yup pretty much this.

It's a weird situation. didn't need to end this way.

 

[entremet]

Police didn't need to kill him but then the person didn't need to be a ass

The person was mentally unstable and needed help. I wouldn't call them an ass. It's way more complex than that.

 

[dantevsninjas]

SO, question....did they have any of that artillery with them? Could they got whatever they needed before she approached them?

They probably didn't have that type of equipment with them, or the ability to maintain the situation until that kind of equipment could arrive because that's not how we train cops in this country, which is kind of my point.

Most cops in the US have no idea what to do with a mentally unstable person other than killing them.

It's just another thing for us to be worse at than the rest of the developed world.

 

[Khaz]

To get some off of the Hollywood trip, this is the reality of knife attacks if someone gets near you:

This vs. pepper spray, good luck.

Lol that's bullshit. Why is there a wall behind him? Why isn't he moving sideways away from both the guy and the wall? Why is he completely relaxed as if there was no guy with a knife in front of him? It's a staged situation that doesn't resemble the one we're described in the OP.

Look at that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmTNZfR4dNw

Funny video, eh? with all the cops running around fearing a knife. It's called backing off, stalling, de-escalating and waiting for properly geared support.

 

[RoadHazard]

It's weird how American cops seemingly always shoot to kill, no matter the circumstances. Here in Sweden this person would have been shot in the leg or such, to incapacitate but not kill. Police here only shoot to kill when it's absolutely necessary (like someone else's life is in immediate danger if they don't).

 

[mAcOdIn]

And why is that? Because they employed sensible tactics rather than the armchair bullshit that people are advocating for here.

Right they did, until they had decided they wanted to grab dinner and end it instead of getting a different unit in there with different options which would take more time.

 

[Greedings]

Then they really shouldn't be armed with deadly weapons.

You won't find me disagreeing with that. I think it's obscene that american police are all armed with guns, but I suppose if you have a country that allows it's average citizen to be armed, you need to also arm your police.

 

[captive]

Wait, what? Then she turns around at the last minute and stabs them or worse if she doesn't let go of the knife after the tackle she stabs them in the back.

did you watch the CBC video?

Its not hard to tell if someone is turning around. Also that dude was carrying a machete.

 

[Beefy]

Can we please call the victim them. Scout was gender neutral.

 

[cordy]

Seems reasonable. US Police training seems to emphasise Officer safety first. If you are in danger, you shoot to kill, no matter what. This cop was following his training, I'm sure he trained for this exact scenario and this is how he was trained to react.

The issue is not even the training itself, it's the underlying emphasis on stacking the odds in favour of officer safety, even if that means killing someone who could be disarmed with very little, but still some, risk.

If you look at situations where mental health or suicide are in play, you have to look at the subject as someone who is both the aggressor and the victim. You have to take down the aggressor but you also have to save the victim and you can't do that if you just shot him in the chest.

Verbal deescalation, containment, improvisation, non-lethal weaponry and shields.

100% agree. Great post.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Can we please call the victim them. Scout was gender neutral.

Or you can say individual.

 

[Kill3r7]

Eh, police school takes - at least - 2 years where i live. That's plenty to learn how to deal with stressful situations.



Then train them. You don't give a weapon to untrained individuals. At least not in an official capacity.

They clearly are trained to use their weapon. I am not sure what you are getting at.

 

[HighResTomato]

Seems to me the cop couldn't be fucked to walk back anymore.

From a different uncensored video you can see the muzzle flash from the gun. The activist got way too close already.


This video shows how quickly it can go wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=Y49rv3QBtkk

Knives aren't fucking toys. These men and women also have families to go home to, they aren't robots.

R.I.P to that activist should have had more help in life.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Lol that's bullshit. Why is there a wall behind him? Why isn't he moving sideways away from both the guy and the wall? Why is he completely relaxed as if there was no guy with a knife in front of him? It's a staged situation that doesn't resemble the one we're described in the OP.

The point is the speed and unpredictability of knife attacks.

People underestimate how deadly it is.


And this is not bullshit, this Hollywood "disarm" shit is bullshit.

If there's a guy with a knife: run. Every martial arts and self defence teacher is going to tell you this.

 

[Beefy]

From a different uncensored video you can see the muzzle flash from the gun. The activist got way too close already.


This video shows how quickly it can go wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=Y49rv3QBtkk

Knives aren't fucking toys. These men and women also have families to go home to, they aren't robots.

R.I.P to that activist should have had more help in life.

Because the cop stopped backing off. The activist also has a name it's Scout.

 

[Infinite]

The person was mentally unstable and needed help. I wouldn't call them an ass. It's way more complex than that.

also being an "ass" doesn't mean your life is forfeit

 

[Beefy]

Or you can say individual.

I was more on about the people saying he, but yeah individual is fine.

 

[Khaz]

The point is the speed and unpredictability of knife attacks.

People underestimate how deadly it is.


And this is not bullshit, this Hollywood "disarm" shit is bullshit.

If there's a guy with a knife: Run.

Why didn't the police officer run then? He had backup.

 

[Dandy Lyin]

You won't find me disagreeing with that. I think it's obscene that american police are all armed with guns, but I suppose if you have a country that allows it's average citizen to be armed, you need to also arm your police.

That's fair. I'm Canadian so the idea of random people walking around armed is totally alien to me.

 

[Zoe]

So taser then.

Did you miss this post?

We trained the Tueller Drill three times a year, and once more during fire arm qualification. Even in a training situation, with a fake knife, the danger response is unreal.

........

Addressing some other things mentioned in the replies:

Tazer - see above. 15ft range, which is best case range. That isn't real life at all. When using a tazer on a moving target, the effective range is unfortunately not reliable at all. You also have to account for what this person is wearing. Taking chances with a non-lethal weapon (tazer) versus an approaching subject with a lethal weapon, is a gamble to say the least.

The same goes with pepper spray, aka capstun. Actually using it in this situation, might or might not work well at all. It doesn't STOP anyone from continuing their goal. It might slow them down because of vision issues, but they can still violently slash around with a knife. It can also affect the officer using the spray, causing even more dangerous situation. Go out and spray this stuff in an attack, outside.. yeah. It doesn't work well.

Non-lethal bullets.. that would be ideal, to keep from having to take a life. Couple issues with that. You need to carry it with it you at all times for situations like this. If you have it in your car, and have time to get it, then safely use it, I'm all for it. Did these officers have that option? If delaying the attack by backing up, talking to the subject, gives another officer time to get to their car, grab the beanbag shotgun, and use it, I'm 100% for that. Armchair guessing in this case is just that, guessing.

Shooting at limbs to immobilize a subject is probably one of the most DO NOT do things in real life. It's just ludicrous. Stop watching movies.

Comparing this particular situation to any other situation from any other company isn't accurate at all. There's no real idea on how this exact situation with this exact person would have happened/ended in any other city, state, country, etc. Doing that has sooo much assumption/speculation/guessing, etc.