It's what I just posted - macho American bullshit doesn't allow for a tactical retreat. The police should surround the suspect and move their cordon with knife wielder until either the suspect stops or you have the proper equipment.
So taser then.
This really needs to be restated. Disarming is something that's incredibly dangerous to do, and would just as likely result in the police getting stabbed as not getting stabbed. The police are no in the job to risk their own life.
Also let's not miss the point that these guys are campus police. They're not highly trained agents of the law. They're basically there to bully young people into not pissing on the buildings while drunk.
Keep in mind these are campus police. Their job usually is to break up fights or deal with drunk college kids.
I am. They are dangerous racist devils who are completely incompetent and incapable of policing properly. Fuck blue lives and fuck all cops. They are dangerous and not who you should ever call in an emergency.Do you think the cops wanted to kill him?
Law enforcement tactics in the US are messed up, I agree. But I'm not going to blame a cop for killing a knife-wielding unstable person that continue charge forward boldly, and not standing down.
Small 21 year old student approaches group of muscular police officers with a knife.
Explain exactly why they had to use a gun? They might get a cut on their arm, or something? Ridiculous police work from America as always.
You grab a knife out of a highly unstable person's hands without ending up in the emergency room. Go on try it, I'll wait.
It's what I just posted - macho American bullshit doesn't allow for a tactical retreat. The police should surround the suspect and move their cordon with knife wielder until either the suspect stops or you have the proper equipment.
I go to tech. Every day I walk by the spot where this happened. Scout had been suicidal for a while and this was how they decided to end it (I didn't know them personally, but this is what people who did are saying).
Of course in an ideal world the police could have ended this without death, but the fact is GTPD do not have tasers, and had no other options in this situation. It's also worth noting that this is the first time in GT history an officer has fired a weapon.
If you watch the video you'll see a solid minute of the police asking Scout to drop the weapon while they yell "just shoot me." Then they approached the police officers knife in hand. I can't really fault the officers in this situation. if you want to fault the general lack of non-lethal preparedness in US police then absolutely, but this isn't the usual police brutality case.
”We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training."
Looks to me like they gave the activist enough opportunity to drop the knife.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD1XePJ3syw
Please, the person in the video's hardly "charging" more like walking around slowly asking to be shot.Couldn't they let themselves be stabbed once or twice just to make sure the attacker was really serious before responding with deadly force?
Tasers aren't at all reliable, unfortunately.
The person in the video got extremely close by police standards. A knife wielder can cover a lot of ground in the time it takes to fire a shot. They can also just bolt the other way and go after innocent people. There's no such thing as a perfect cordon, and campus police are doubly liable for anything that goes wrong.
According to the article, they did back off. The attacker kept going forward.
The issue isn't just tactical retreat but making sure the attacker doesn't attack other people as well.
I counted about 8 stabs in 3 seconds. Jeezus.To get some off of the Hollywood trip, this is the reality of knife attacks if someone gets near you:
This vs. pepper spray, good luck.
If a knife has all the person had, they didn't have to use a gun at all. Anyone who thinks this was justified is a fucking idiot. Countries with decent police systems manage to restrain people with knifes just fine. Don't make excuses for trigger-happy idiots with shit training.Small 21 year old student approaches group of muscular police officers with a knife.
Explain exactly why they had to use a gun? They might get a cut on their arm, or something? Ridiculous police work from America as always.
The police here in Ireland don't even carry guns and they have to deal with the same situations. There are other ways to incapacitate people.
to the people who say "what should the police have done"....
i say... not fucking shoot ? they only had a knife.... how do cops works in other countries when faced with this situation? Some policeforce never wear guns... Do they let themselves be killed by the knife? OF COURSE NOT, they have tasers, and many other ways to disarm the person holding the knife
there's no freaking excuse, even if it's suicide by cops here... i mean other cops even in america mange to disarms this kind of treats without guns....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfMcjRWESVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW6nSGqQoao
This really needs to be restated. Disarming is something that's incredibly dangerous to do, and would just as likely result in the police getting stabbed as not getting stabbed. The police are no in the job to risk their own life.
Also let's not miss the point that these guys are campus police. They're not highly trained agents of the law. They're basically there to bully young people into not pissing on the buildings while drunk.
If they aren't trained they shouldn't have guns.
Please, the person in the video's hardly "charging" more like walking around slowly asking to be shot.
For one of those officers to have gotten stabbed would have been an act of God.
The police are a long way away from military training. They might look the part but the training is not there. A military trained individual can pin down and keep several cops at bay simply by relying on their training.
They probably did not until campus shootings became a thing.
The police are a long way away from military training. They might look the part but the training is not there. A military trained individual can pin down and keep several cops at bay simply by relying on their training.
If the police are badly trained sure. Plenty of cases of police subduing wife wielding lunatics mostly unharmed all over the world.Clearly this person was not in their right mind. When you advance on police with a weapon, you get shot.
Couldn't they let themselves be stabbed once or twice just to make sure the attacker was really serious before responding with deadly force?
Seems to me the cop couldn't be fucked to walk back anymore.
Police didn't need to kill him but then the person didn't need to be a ass
SO, question....did they have any of that artillery with them? Could they got whatever they needed before she approached them?
To get some off of the Hollywood trip, this is the reality of knife attacks if someone gets near you:
This vs. pepper spray, good luck.
Right they did, until they had decided they wanted to grab dinner and end it instead of getting a different unit in there with different options which would take more time.And why is that? Because they employed sensible tactics rather than the armchair bullshit that people are advocating for here.
Then they really shouldn't be armed with deadly weapons.
Wait, what? Then she turns around at the last minute and stabs them or worse if she doesn't let go of the knife after the tackle she stabs them in the back.
100% agree. Great post.Seems reasonable. US Police training seems to emphasise Officer safety first. If you are in danger, you shoot to kill, no matter what. This cop was following his training, I'm sure he trained for this exact scenario and this is how he was trained to react.
The issue is not even the training itself, it's the underlying emphasis on stacking the odds in favour of officer safety, even if that means killing someone who could be disarmed with very little, but still some, risk.
If you look at situations where mental health or suicide are in play, you have to look at the subject as someone who is both the aggressor and the victim. You have to take down the aggressor but you also have to save the victim and you can't do that if you just shot him in the chest.
Verbal deescalation, containment, improvisation, non-lethal weaponry and shields.
Can we please call the victim them. Scout was gender neutral.
Eh, police school takes - at least - 2 years where i live. That's plenty to learn how to deal with stressful situations.
Then train them. You don't give a weapon to untrained individuals. At least not in an official capacity.
Seems to me the cop couldn't be fucked to walk back anymore.
The point is the speed and unpredictability of knife attacks.Lol that's bullshit. Why is there a wall behind him? Why isn't he moving sideways away from both the guy and the wall? Why is he completely relaxed as if there was no guy with a knife in front of him? It's a staged situation that doesn't resemble the one we're described in the OP.
From a different uncensored video you can see the muzzle flash from the gun. The activist got way too close already.
This video shows how quickly it can go wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=Y49rv3QBtkk
Knives aren't fucking toys. These men and women also have families to go home to, they aren't robots.
R.I.P to that activist should have had more help in life.
The person was mentally unstable and needed help. I wouldn't call them an ass. It's way more complex than that.
Or you can say individual.
The point is the speed and unpredictability of knife attacks.
People underestimate how deadly it is.
And this is not bullshit, this Hollywood "disarm" shit is bullshit.
If there's a guy with a knife: Run.
That's fair. I'm Canadian so the idea of random people walking around armed is totally alien to me.You won't find me disagreeing with that. I think it's obscene that american police are all armed with guns, but I suppose if you have a country that allows it's average citizen to be armed, you need to also arm your police.
So taser then.
We trained the Tueller Drill three times a year, and once more during fire arm qualification. Even in a training situation, with a fake knife, the danger response is unreal.
........
Addressing some other things mentioned in the replies:
Tazer - see above. 15ft range, which is best case range. That isn't real life at all. When using a tazer on a moving target, the effective range is unfortunately not reliable at all. You also have to account for what this person is wearing. Taking chances with a non-lethal weapon (tazer) versus an approaching subject with a lethal weapon, is a gamble to say the least.
The same goes with pepper spray, aka capstun. Actually using it in this situation, might or might not work well at all. It doesn't STOP anyone from continuing their goal. It might slow them down because of vision issues, but they can still violently slash around with a knife. It can also affect the officer using the spray, causing even more dangerous situation. Go out and spray this stuff in an attack, outside.. yeah. It doesn't work well.
Non-lethal bullets.. that would be ideal, to keep from having to take a life. Couple issues with that. You need to carry it with it you at all times for situations like this. If you have it in your car, and have time to get it, then safely use it, I'm all for it. Did these officers have that option? If delaying the attack by backing up, talking to the subject, gives another officer time to get to their car, grab the beanbag shotgun, and use it, I'm 100% for that. Armchair guessing in this case is just that, guessing.
Shooting at limbs to immobilize a subject is probably one of the most DO NOT do things in real life. It's just ludicrous. Stop watching movies.
Comparing this particular situation to any other situation from any other company isn't accurate at all. There's no real idea on how this exact situation with this exact person would have happened/ended in any other city, state, country, etc. Doing that has sooo much assumption/speculation/guessing, etc.