Slamtastic
Member
It would be great if fighting games had this.
Or hell if Street Fighter even had the level of explanation about your character Ovrwatch has.
vs
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Can fighting games be casual?
- Thread starter Weiss
- Start date
It would be great if fighting games had this.
Or hell if Street Fighter even had the level of explanation about your character Ovrwatch has.
vs
GhostOfSparta305
Banned
This.
Akin to thinking that learning how to dunk makes you good at basketball. Wrong on so many levels.
Valkerionseven
Member
They are casual imo. Very casual friendly. Few other games are so easy to fire up, mash some buttons and see results, maybe even cool ones while were at it.
So many got into the idea that you need to be high level, know every combo, and every attack to play at even a basic level but it just isn't true. So what if you lose online. Start another match and try with someone else or play with friends. Not everyone is a pro just cause you lose to them.
The mind set of "never being able to catch up" and never starting is crazy to me. Look at freaking CoD, or Battlefield, LoL, ect. ect. they all have top level players but are still fun for causal players too. Fighting games are exactly the same. There isn't some insane high level you need to reach but you need to just enjoy yourself. If your enjoyment of a game is tied to how much you win, then I suggest you never play any game with another person or one that has even a chance of letting you lose.
Don't understand why fighting games get this level of "its too hardcore! pros everywhere" but others don't
So many got into the idea that you need to be high level, know every combo, and every attack to play at even a basic level but it just isn't true. So what if you lose online. Start another match and try with someone else or play with friends. Not everyone is a pro just cause you lose to them.
The mind set of "never being able to catch up" and never starting is crazy to me. Look at freaking CoD, or Battlefield, LoL, ect. ect. they all have top level players but are still fun for causal players too. Fighting games are exactly the same. There isn't some insane high level you need to reach but you need to just enjoy yourself. If your enjoyment of a game is tied to how much you win, then I suggest you never play any game with another person or one that has even a chance of letting you lose.
Don't understand why fighting games get this level of "its too hardcore! pros everywhere" but others don't
They appealed to the hardcore crowds in arcades first, then later to the casual crowds on console.
Basketball
Member
* 100000
It would be great if fighting games had this.
Or hell if Street Fighter even had the level of explanation about your character Ovrwatch has.
vs
Yep. As someone who has played almost every capcom fighting game at length, SFV is just impenetrable. What is a v trigger and why should I care about it? No doubt after watching 3 hours of YouTube videos I'll know what the fuck is going on.
Yeah, something like this is all I would need to get into King of Fighters.
Pretty much. Something like Minecraft can be super casual or super hardcore it just depends on the approach. In this case, i think it's a kind of similar situation where there are a bunch of different parts of the communities
I think this is because Shooters just have a larger audience. The average CoD player or BF player won't ever look into competitive scenes while I think most casual players that pick up a fighting game will know someone that is into the competitive scene or has looked into it themselves, even if it's just to a casual degree.
Mortal Kombat is an exception I think because a lot of people since the game's original inception have purchased the game just to see all the cool fatalities while they played it with friends. Recent iterations have made the story mode/single player content an additional appeal as well.
Street Fighter has always been about 1v1 competitive play. Arcade introduction/etc
User 479360
Banned
They can be and some are. But I still can't get into them despite trying.
Imagine if this is what SFV did instead of that total waste of time and resources that was Cinematic Story Mode.
But hey, talky cutscenes and 1-round dummy fights are meangingful content, too, I guess?
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Shooters are much more popular because they are normally more accessible to casuals. Fighting games are generally all about the individuals' skills or technique while in multiplayer shooters, they can be played in a team environment where everyone is contributing to the team's success. If you are horrendous at a fighting game, chances are you will not win against the opponent that is more skilled than you. In a shooter, even if you are not the most skilled player, your more talented teammates can still garner you some wins. Also, imho I think fighting games are the most difficult type of games for an average gamer to learn compared to other genres. I've been playing fighting games for quite some and the trials in certain fighting games and some online opponents can make me feel sort of disquieting at times, so I can imagine how intimidating it would be for someone who does not plays new to fighting games.
tintin1029
Member
Fighting games are the most pure skill based genre in video games.
It only seems not casual friendly because you're playing with the wrong people.
Funny how the more easier it was for people to play each other. The more Fighters died as a genre.
It only seems not casual friendly because you're playing with the wrong people.
Funny how the more easier it was for people to play each other. The more Fighters died as a genre.
I play a couple hours a week, I'm one of the best in my local scene and the last 2 majors I went to I made top 16 and top 32 respectively. I've played people online that have double or triple the amount of games and/or time played that I have and I've beaten them soundly. A couple hours a week is more than enough time to become good at a fighter.
I would say the fall of arcades and rising development costs had a big impact on the fighting game genre because it was always very niche, save a few big franchises.
There are a lot of genres that have struggled to stay prevalent. Back in the PS2 days you would see video game versions of just about every sport, sim and arcade style, no matter how obscure.
3 years into the gen and we don't even have a Topspin or Virtua Tennis on PS4 or XB1.
SENPAIatLARGE
Banned
This x1000. I hate the fact that SFV flat out refuses to tell you how moves work, and has a poor tutorial system. The only way to learn the intricate systems is thru outside methods like YouTube or Shoryuken forums. Accessibility is always a great thing. I mean, look at KI's move list, and marvel at the difference.It would be great if fighting games had this.
Or hell if Street Fighter even had the level of explanation about your character Ovrwatch has.
vs
old manatee
Banned
I want a fighting game that is a wild west bar brawl.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Of course they can. It all depends on who you're playing against
Dude,
I'm just pointing out that you don't need to play hours a day to be good at fighters using myself as an example. It's part of why people find fighters unappealing, the stigma that you need to put in a vast amount of time to be good at it when you don't.
I want a fighting game that is a wild west bar brawl.
AKI in its heyday could've done somethin fun with this idea.
I think this depends entirely on the game and the player, but I mostly agree.
As someone that has played Melee off and on for 12 years, I can say that a few hours a week is probably going to be enough for me to get the results you're talking about, but probably not for someone just entering Melee. However, I'd probably need 4-8 hours minimum.
The only fighting games that I can think of where this is probably true is Street Fighter V and any Mortal Kombat, but again this is assuming the player has been playing them occasionally for the last 4-5 years or the game has gotten easier on the technical side.
Either that or I have to work much harder in fighting games than you do, lol.
petran79
Banned
Playing fighting games on a gamepad makes things a chore.
An arcade stick breathes new life to the genre or any arcade game, even to beginners. It makes the experience more responsive and enjoyable. You can set the original arcade layouts.
Just like I wouldnt dare to touch a flight or race sim seriously on a keyboard.
An arcade stick breathes new life to the genre or any arcade game, even to beginners. It makes the experience more responsive and enjoyable. You can set the original arcade layouts.
Just like I wouldnt dare to touch a flight or race sim seriously on a keyboard.
So you're asking new players to make a $100 investment in addition to their $60 investment in the hopes of getting good? Yeah, that'll go over well with casuals.
I'm looking forward to this David Sirlin project.
Fighting games often remind me of Pokémon. It's obvious pretty early on that the core system has cool things going on, and you can intuit a bunch of it and learn the rest pretty easy. But to actually play the game, you have to pay this suuuuuper high bullshit tax (memorizing combos or breeding & EV training).
All the theory-knowledge in the world doesn't help you if you simply can't input your punish combo. At some point there's going to be a skill bar you have to cross even if it's just reflexes. But most fighting games set that bar way too high to keep my attention.
Fighting games often remind me of Pokémon. It's obvious pretty early on that the core system has cool things going on, and you can intuit a bunch of it and learn the rest pretty easy. But to actually play the game, you have to pay this suuuuuper high bullshit tax (memorizing combos or breeding & EV training).
All the theory-knowledge in the world doesn't help you if you simply can't input your punish combo. At some point there's going to be a skill bar you have to cross even if it's just reflexes. But most fighting games set that bar way too high to keep my attention.
Unknown Soldier
Member
No, what killed fighting games was the death of arcades and local play like playing with your buddy in your living room and the rise of the Internet and online play.
Fighting games are the most intimate multiplayer experience. It's just you and the other guy. Mano a mano. Toe to toe. Two enter the Octagon, one leaves. The local experience is so much better than playing an anonymous laggy individual on the Internet, most of the time fighting games online is like playing with bots that have lag. It's completely disconnected from the feeling of sitting or standing next to the person you're fighting with.
lightskintwin
Banned
The execution barrier and the split second timing will always make fighting games inaccessible for most casual gamers.
IncognitoPanda
Member
KI does a pretty good job of it
The main issue is community. A game is "casual" in so far as someone has enough people to play it with casually. You can have all the party modes you want in a game, but if you're only playing with people who are 1000x better than you and you just want to smash buttons, any game can be seen as "too hardcore." On the other end of the spectrum, if noone you play with is really competitive, then almost any game can be seen as "super fun for casuals." The problem with fighting game nowadays is that people would rather play other genres with their friends so the only people you are playing are the ones online grinding dozens of hours to get their combos on point.
They did add a mode later that explains all of the basic moves your character has. It's not great but it's at least Overwatch level.
Ardenyal
Member
The brain dead input reading AI is to blame here. It's silly no one has even tried to create a fighting game AI that would mimic at least some human tendencies like reaction time.
GhostOfSparta305
Banned
This is wrong on so many levels.
Most fighting games are about making complex decisions against a single opponent. The shooting genre, for example, has that in addition to 3D environments and multiple opponents to deal with. Crowd control's a skill I'd bet most FGC players don't possess.
I think the problem is that most in the FGC look at those extra elements as "random."
Respectfully disagree about being a chore. Will always be preferences, but Sticks do not automatically make casual players enjoy a fighting game more. If anything it is more daunting to pick up a large peripheral and learn a whole new way to play, than to learn on a controller pad that you are used to. I dont see sticks, etc as casual devices.
Capcom Cup was just won by a guy using a dualshock 4, so even at competitive levels pads can be just as viable and fun too
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
Isn't that what a huge part of this season of Killer Instinct about? Shadow Lords mode?
UFC 2 for me is the best casual fighter there is, with its Knockout mode where there are no combos per say, just left/right punch and kick, body and big shot.
Everyone who plays that with me at home on the couch is encouraged to then learn grappling and clinches to move into the proper fighting modes.
Plus it's tactical in the sense that you're not memorizing combos, you're building them as if you were really fighting. A left right left, a feint and kick is mapped to an action rather than a button which makes it an instant hit with people.
So i don't have to remember left left, right right, xx, circle circle, voodoo, 72 sacrificial lambs and boom crazy combo coming up...I'll just do it
Everyone who plays that with me at home on the couch is encouraged to then learn grappling and clinches to move into the proper fighting modes.
Plus it's tactical in the sense that you're not memorizing combos, you're building them as if you were really fighting. A left right left, a feint and kick is mapped to an action rather than a button which makes it an instant hit with people.
So i don't have to remember left left, right right, xx, circle circle, voodoo, 72 sacrificial lambs and boom crazy combo coming up...I'll just do it
tintin1029
Member
As if those matter for casual play
I like fighting games, I'd love to buy Street Fighter...but I absolutely SUCK at them and just don't have anywhere near the time to dedicate to getting any better...so a quality story mode, that is accessible to crap players is the only way I'm ever going to buy a fighting game
Tizoc
Member
Funnily enough, SF5 has a good Story mode. But for the most part any arcade mode in a fighting game IS Story mode.
Guilty Gear Xrd have both a robust and informative tutorial mode and the arcade mode functions as story prequels to the game's Story mode as well.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
fucking this
scrubs will always take the easy way out and say the game is too complicated but never put any effort into learning. mvci will be the same way no matter how much they dumb it down.
tintin1029
Member
Alright, yeah I was a bit hyperbolic on my last post.
My point was that Fighting Games are very skill heavy, and the fact that people think they don't play them because that they're hard is ridiculous. Because it's not that it's hard to play, there just playing with players that are much much better than them.
Aside from what many people have been saying, there's many other ways to play than just playing with Randoms.
You
and I
GG's story mode is decent but it likely is that way because it's not constrained by having 1v1 fights all through it (since it contains no player controlled fights). Comparatively, the plot you have in SF5 is pretty awful in quite a few ways but the chief one of them is that it has to find an excuse for everyone to fight each other.
tintin1029
Member
While I quite enjoyed SFV's story mode (mainly for the dumb fan service and character moments) but I definitely agree GG Xrd is how fighters should do Story Mode from now on.
It fixes the problem where characters are forced to fight for no reason. And when fights do happen, they're just cool animated fights.
Tizoc
Member
BlazBlue using the arcade mode to tell a character's prologue story is another missed opportunity for SF5, it could just use the arcade mode model and have it end with that character's lead up to the story mode.
Arcade mode doesn't need to GIVE a reason to beat up 10 or so opponents, it is there so that one can go about playing and beating up 10 cpu opponents.
You sure about that? Those arcade cabinets weren't just in arcades. They were everywhere. Pizza shops, convenience stores, malls, Sports arenas, movie theaters, etc.
People who never owned a console in their lives were exposed to street fighter during that era. With the exception of the bar scene, it might as well have been the Big Buck Hunter of its time.
GhostOfSparta305
Banned
I think there's truth to both.
Again, if I get my ass kicked in a shooter, its very unlikely that I see a tool/tactic my opponent used that I'm unable to do myself. But this happens in fighting games all the time.
It can be extremely frustrating to know what tool you have to use in a situation, but not have the dexterity to perform it. That, I think, is why fighting games are slowly dying: accessibility is lacking.
It would be great if fighting games had this.
Or hell if Street Fighter even had the level of explanation about your character Ovrwatch has.
vs
Capcom need to take a page from KI on this, the game from memory had special moves listed out with frame data and properties per strength (ie. goes through projectiles, beats low attacks etc) even basic explanations