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[Thunder Monkey]

Have you been paying much attention to Nintendo lately? They have been losing money hand over fist lately.

I'm a stockholder, so obviously I believe they'll pull out (or I would sell) but it isn't as though there is any sure thing in gaming right now.

Not with such a highly fractured market.

Since developers seem to look at the PS3/360 as one platform. They've got a near parity marketbase to sell too on those two platforms versus the Wii. A marketbase that buys lots of software. Something the Wii market seems to be hemorrhaging.

The biggest danger to gaming, and something they don't seem to be learning from the comic book market is the reliance on a fixed market. The biggest games in the industry are still being marketed to young men, the most development money being put into $100 million dollar shooters.

Comic books relied too hard on the enthusiast market, and I don't exactly see videogames doing anything exactly that different.

slurp slurp

>: D

Sometimes it's fun to suck the cock of a President.

 

[karobit]

So in a nutshell:

#1 Catered solely to a temporary niche market

#2 Didn't bother trying to expand to new markets.

#3 Pulled out of casual consumer marketplaces (I.E. supermarkets)

Do I have this right?

I'd say so. "But with all of the recent comics-to-film blockbusters," one might ask, "surely some of that audience is picking up comics as well?"

Well, unfortunately neither Marvel nor DC have shown themselves to be particularly successful at converting mainstream interest in their characters into comic book sales. The characters that get films (Spider-Man, Batman, X-Men, Wolverine, Iron Man) all have multiple comic books devoted to them, sometimes in multiple incarnations or alternate universes of the characters. Since the characters themselves are 40 years old on average, the stories that have been adapted into the film are decades old as well. The Spider-Man that had to save his girlfriend after the Green Goblin threw her off the George Washington Bridge isn't the same Spider-Man that was in Amazing Spider-Man #41 which came out the same month as the film. There's no place for that person to go. Both companies have attempted to make new-reader friendly books that launch simultaneously with the film (most recently The Invincible Iron Man?) but usually those titles are shunned by both the fans and the talent as not being as important as the "real" book.

The whole idea of a sustained narrative across 30, 40, 70 years of monthly stories is so bizarre anyways. I'm not saying I would ever want it to go away, but it's just defies comparisons to other media.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

This is another thing I was gonna mention. Hey you want to check out that new Batman storyline? Sure it sounds cool. Okay well you have to pick up Batman #733, then Detective Comics #693, then next month Robin #94 and then Catwoman #173, and yes it will have different artists and writers each issue! And make sure you go and buy them the first day because there is only one comic book shop in a 60 mile radius and some douchebag will go and buy up all the copies so he can resell them at a convention next month! So intimidating for a casual observer to get into. It's really just a horrible medium for attracting new customers. It seems like the entire industry is just run to cater to the old, die hard fans and their fear of change. If the video game industry was run the same way we'd probably still be playing 16 bit 2D games right now.

No we wouldn't. The die hard video game fans have always demanded the latest technology. 3D was the inevitable conclusion.

Just like how the comic book fans wanted bigger, badder, grittier and more.... super.

 

[Femmeworth]

Have any of the American publishers ever attempted to copy the Japanese business model and make something like Shonen Jump? It's most likely too late for them to do something like that, though.

 

[tokkun]

Seems like a lot of posters in this thread are acting like trade paperbacks don't exist.

 

[Slayven]

Have any of the American publishers ever attempted to copy the Japanese business model and make something like Shonen Jump? It's most likely too late for them to do something like that, though.

Crossgen came the closest, they printed 2 books a month that collected the issues from their line.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

No we wouldn't. The die hard video game fans have always demanded the latest technology. 3D was the inevitable conclusion.

Just like how the comic book fans wanted bigger, badder, grittier and more.... super.

the die hard video game fans also become outraged any time a new game is announced that is different from what they are used to. If a game is moved to 3D, or changes viewpoints or is "dumbed down" or doesn't play exactly how they remember a certain game playing 15 years ago. For better or worse, game companies and publishers tend to try and have mass appeal and reach out to the general consumers, hence the next XCom being a 3D FPS with high production values instead of another overhead tactical RPG that very few people outside of the diehard fanbase would have much interest in.

Seems like a lot of posters in this thread are acting like trade paperbacks don't exist.

they do but they are an afterthought, released after all the hype has died down.

 

[Father_Brain]

Seems like a lot of posters in this thread are acting like trade paperbacks don't exist.

With (very) rare exceptions, monthly comics from the big publishers live or die on the basis of sales in the direct market. TPBs are just an ancillary market.

 

[Slayven]

With (very) rare exceptions, monthly comics from the big publishers live or die on the basis of sales in the direct market. TPBs are just an ancillary market.

Too true, man a series have gone from ongoing to maxi to mini based on sales.

 

[karobit]

Have any of the American publishers ever attempted to copy the Japanese business model and make something like Shonen Jump? It's most likely too late for them to do something like that, though.

Shonen Jump relies on the economy of scale which american comics do not have to their advantage. Shonen Jump can afford to put out 500 pages of black and white art on the shittiest recycled paper because they sell so many fucking copies. American comic book readers, by and large, do not want their X-Men comics in black and white and surrounded by 20 other comics they don't want to read. American comic creators don't want the essential anonymity of not having the cover of the anthology and the burden of having to churn out so many pages at such an accelerated rate. American comics publisher don't want the worry of having to deal with what a blown deadline will their now only title.

Anthology books have been tried, both with reprints and with new content (the two most successful being Marvel Comics Presents - where Barry Windsor-Smith's "Weapon X" story ran - and Dark Horse Comics Presents - where Frank Miller's Sin City originally ran) but they have not taken off.

 

[Takao]

I was born in '93, apparently the peak, and have read only 3 or 4 issues of an American comic book in my life.

Spoiler

And both series were adaptations of Japanese properties, Sonic and Digimon.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

the die hard video game fans also become outraged any time a new game is announced that is different from what they are used to. If a game is moved to 3D, or changes viewpoints or is "dumbed down" or doesn't play exactly how they remember a certain game playing 15 years ago. For better or worse, game companies and publishers tend to try and have mass appeal and reach out to the general consumers, hence the next XCom being a 3D FPS with high production values instead of another overhead tactical RPG that very few people outside of the diehard fanbase would have much interest in.

The change to 3D was always fan and developer driven. Always. Even where a fanbase was more conservative (eg. the Metroid fanbase), the jump to 3D was not a change that ever lost anybody sales.

The conservatism you describe is happening now, yes, but not at the dawn of 3D. Back then, the kids' market had been tapped out and young men represented where the growth would be. Today, it's young men and kids that have been tapped out and the future growth having to come from women and older people.

 

[BocoDragon]

Videogames. Done.

 

[El Sloth]

Have any of the American publishers ever attempted to copy the Japanese business model and make something like Shonen Jump? It's most likely too late for them to do something like that, though.

If I only had to buy only one magazine to read the most popular DC/Marvel comics then I would definitely get back into comics. It would be so damn convenient.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Internet?

Nailed it.

 

[vazel]

The comic book popularity of the 90s was fueled by speculators that hoped their comic book collections would become valuable collectibles. When people figured out that wasn't going to happen many stopped buying comics causing a serious downturn in the industry.

 

[kame-sennin]

People thought they could get rich quick collecting comics in the early '90s. Once the market collapsed and people didn't see the huge money they thought they'll get, they left the comics scene.

A lot of the early 90s sales were collectors that only bought them because they thought they were going to be worth money. After the market crashed all the speculators ran away.

The problem I have with that explanation is that the speculator bubble began in the late 80's when popular comics were selling between 500K and 1.5M. If speculation inflated those numbers to 2-3M (and sometimes more), why didn't the industry return to normal levels after the speculator's left? I can understand that financial troubles lead to a lot of comics based businesses closing down, and that this would put a strain on the overall reader-base. But how could sales go from 500K-1.5M in the pre-speculator market to 80K-150K in the post speculator market? That seems like too big a drop to be accounted for by the crash.

 

[Byakuya769]

Sometimes it's fun to suck the cock of a President.

:lol :lol :lol

well played. Kept your cool and went with the wit. 10/10

 

[vazel]

The problem I have with that explanation is that the speculator bubble began in the late 80's when popular comics were selling between 500K and 1.5M. If speculation inflated those numbers to 2-3M (and sometimes more), why didn't the industry return to normal levels after the speculator's left? I can understand that financial troubles lead to a lot of comics based business closing down, and that this would put a strain on the overall reader-base. But how could sails go from 500K-1.5M in the pre-speculator market to 80K-150K in the post speculator market? That seems like to big a drop to be accounted for by the crash.

It's just the main reason. There are other reasons too like competition from other forms of entertainment. It's also my opinion that many got tired of comic book continuity and crossover crap.

Edit: For those saying it's money these price hikes came after the speculator crash. I do agree $4 is ridiculous. You can wait for the TPBs which are cheaper.

 

[Wthermans]

comics got more expensive where other forms of entertainment (electronics) got cheaper in many ways.

Bingo.

When you get a fraction of the overall story for the price of a movie ticket or DVD, your industry fails. You can argue that the stories are longer, more complex, and the art styles are unmatched, but money is the primary motivator for consumers (especially when your product requires time/thought).

 

[thetrin]

It's just you. Avoid the superhero crap for the most part, although there's a good one here and there. Invincible is one.

Yesssss. Invincible is fucking awesome.

 

[Teddman]

Comic books are more popular than ever. At the movies.

The main reason for the decline in popularity as actual comics is that comic books mainly exist as story boards for spec screenplays these days. All the talented new writers are trying to hatch a property that is going to be sold or optioned as a movie. Can't blame them, because honestly that's where the only real money in the business is.

As for the decline in issue sales? Scans and the "wait for the graphic novel" mentality, plain and simple.

 

[WYWY]

Well I was sort of into US comics around '87 - '93. Not for collection purposes and didn't spend too much money either but I did kinda enjoyed them.

I stopped because I realised story quality is getting worse... and felt insulted.

How many times did they kill someone and bring them back because it was a clone/alien/imposter or dimension shift/time travel/magic? Cheap gimmicks to clock sales. Ret-conns have become a staple of US comics.

Sheer amount of ridiculous, cheap violence and 'shock events' kept going up - more cheap gimmicks to cover up the lack of any talent in narration.



I'll say one important root of the problem is that these comic characters have been around for decades, and their IP owners aren't willing to let them go. Hypothetically, Batman and Superman would be remembered more fondly if they had the guts to say "let's finally end the series in the next 12 months." You know, bow out in glory rather than live out such a pitiful and tired existence.

Manga was an eye-opener to me in this respect. You mean you can actually have a 'final issue'? Wow! And the manga series achieves a much higher quality overall simply because the author has intended for it to end eventually. Reading manga is like watching a good 2-hour movie from beginning to end. Reading US comics is like watching a 2-hour movie where the 1st 75 minutes keeps going on forever.

 

[kame-sennin]

Have any of the American publishers ever attempted to copy the Japanese business model and make something like Shonen Jump? It's most likely too late for them to do something like that, though.

I'm not a manga fan, but I do find it odd that whenever these discussions crop up (on gaf or even amongst comics industry people) there's very little to no discussion about Japanese comics. I feel like any analysis of the dramatic failure of the American comic market would require at least a cursory break down of the Japanese market. A lot of the explanations for the American industry's failure simply don't hold water when they are applied overseas.

 

[freddy]

I don't know really I've never been into them besides some Donald Duck and Phantom when I was younger but I was looking through some webpages the other day when someone bought up who was the toughest superhero and I was shocked how convoluted it had become. I went to a wikipedia page and I saw not one Superman but 3 or 4 alternate Supermans from mirror worlds, all of whom had battled each other at one stage and it was mentioned that there was an army of Green Lanterns holding one of them captive for some kind of master race that reminded me of the Time Lords. Certainly a wtf moment for me anyway.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

:lol :lol :lol

well played. Kept your cool and went with the wit. 10/10

That was wit?!?

 

[vazel]

I'm not a manga fan, but I do find it odd that whenever these discussions crop up (on gaf or even amongst comics industry people) there's very little to no discussion about Japanese comics. I feel like any analysis of the dramatic failure of the American comic market would require at least a cursory break down of the Japanese market. A lot of the explanations for the American industry's failure simply don't hold water when they are applied overseas.

It's two totally different cultures with different economies. Just because some things are still popular over there doesn't invalidate the reasons for why they aren't here. Arcades and 2D animation are also still popular over there. Handhelds are more popular than consoles and they also prefer different videogame genres than the west.

 

[DemiMatt]

At least theres a foot in there.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I'll say one important root of the problem is that these comic characters have been around for decades, and their IP owners aren't willing to let them go. Hypothetically, Batman and Superman would be remembered more fondly if they had the guts to say "let's finally end the series in the next 12 months." You know, bow out in glory rather than live out such a pitiful and tired existence.

Manga was an eye-opener to me in this respect. You mean you can actually have a 'final issue'? Wow! And the manga series achieves a much higher quality overall simply because the author has intended for it to end eventually. Reading manga is like watching a good 2-hour movie from beginning to end. Reading US comics is like watching a 2-hour movie where the 1st 75 minutes keeps going on forever.

This is one of the reasons I can't stand American comics outside some exceptions. The whole never ending thing coupled with everything taking place in the same universe and having to read 80 different things to get the full story is just so overwhelming. Yeah, manga takes a while to end sometimes, but it isn't incredibly non-linear and detached from any overarching plot to the point where it's episodic.

Of course if that's your thing, it's cool. I would say the whole thing is comparable to WRPGs vs JRPGs.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I'm surprised that American comic book companies didn't copy the Japanese business model. In Japan you have the manga, then if it's popular create a TV show, then the video game series, then the movie. It's a halo effect of circulation. Look at One Piece, Dragonball, Naruto, etc. These series are extremely popular and the IP's are in so many mediums.

Maybe if American comic book owners adapted their popular books to TV series, then film, then video games, we'd see more success. I mean there are some that did it such as Spawn, but that's an exception to the rule.

I also think a big reason is because Shonen anime is the equivalent to Star Wars or Harry Potter. It appeals to all ages, while most comic book cartoons only appeal to kids.

EDIT - Wait the Japanese anime market is declining world-wide?

To be fair, a lot of that's to do with currency exchange and the company reporting in Yen.

I thought it was mostly due to their massive R&D with 3DS and Wii 2.

I
The whole idea of a sustained narrative across 30, 40, 70 years of monthly stories is so bizarre anyways. I'm not saying I would ever want it to go away, but it's just defies comparisons to other media.

This is what I'm thinking. Why not one clean narrative? Why are there like 30 different Spiderman comic series?

 

[Forkball]

As someone who doesn't read comic books (ok, I rarely do), I will tell you why people don't read comic books.

Fucking expensive: $4 for ten minutes of entertainment? And in between each minute, there's an ad. Yeah, trade paperbacks are cheaper, but if you buy them at a store, they're like $20 for 45 minutes or an hour of entertainment. That is a terrible deal.

Other forms of media are more appealing: I don't care what Superman is doing when I could be playing against my friend who lives halfway across the country in Mario Kart online with my Wii, trying out some iPhone apps, watching a new music video on Youtube, downloading a novel instantly via an eReader, watching something on the hundreds of channels I have available etc.

Most inaccessible medium ever?: Hey I saw The Dark Knight, so I want to check out some Batman comic books. Ok let me just buy the new one. Huh, he's... traveling through time? Why is Superman there? What's final crisis? I have to continue this story with another comic book? Fuck this, I will just rent Batman Arkham Asylum for my 360.

I think the fact that they try to shoehorn decades of stories from dozens of different authors and artists into one timeline is immensely laughable. Does everything have to fall into continuity somehow? Why can't it just be a good story? Give a few writers their own Batman universe or whatever that is totally disconnected and let them just go at it.

I need a treasure map to find where to buy them: Yeah, you can got to Barnes and Noble to pick up some trade paperbacks, but if you want single issues (but who in their right mind would) you have to go specifically to a comic book store, which is probably one of the most awkward places to visit on this planet.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I thought it was mostly due to their massive R&D with 3DS and Wii 2.

Nope. R&D costs have been ongoing for a number of years and didn't suddenly spike last quarter. Manufacturing setup costs, I'll grant you, but R&D isn't the reason. They've been spending millions for years, ever since the start of the generation.

Last quarter, they made an operating profit any company would be proud of. They lost a huge amount of money on a currency hedge that went against them (something they've benefited from in a big way in the past), so they had to write down a huge transactional cost (in the billions of Yen), which at the end of the day means that they lost money for the quarter.

Were it not for that, people would still have been posting the "It Prints Money" gif whenever anyone mentioned Nintendo.

 

[Salazar]

Just read the collected ZOT!

So good.

 

[vazel]

Fucking expensive: $4 for ten minutes of entertainment? And in between each minute, there's an ad. Yeah, trade paperbacks are cheaper, but if you buy them at a store, they're like $20 for 45 minutes or an hour of entertainment. That is a terrible deal.

I never pay more than $10-13 for TPBs.

I need a treasure map to find where to buy them: Yeah, you can got to Barnes and Noble to pick up some trade paperbacks, but if you want single issues (but who in their right mind would) you have to go specifically to a comic book store, which is probably one of the most awkward places to visit on this planet.

Yea this is a big problem. The industry needs to stop relying so heavily on dedicated enthusiast stores. I know getting comics back into newsstands and grocery stores is not going to happen again but they really need to put a bigger emphasis on digital distribution.

I get all my comics from heavyink.com, you can subscribe to titles and have them delivered monthly. Marvel's digital comics is also slowly but surely improving. I tried a few samples just now and the resolution is better, I think I may resubscribe.

 

[karobit]

I'm surprised that American comic book companies didn't copy the Japanese business model. In Japan you have the manga, then if it's popular create a TV show, then the video game series, then the movie. It's a halo effect of circulation. Look at One Piece, Dragonball, Naruto, etc. These series are extremely popular and the IP's are in so many mediums.

Maybe if American comic book owners adapted their popular books to TV series, then film, then video games, we'd see more success. I mean there are some that did it such as Spawn, but that's an exception to the rule.

I also think a big reason is because Shonen anime is the equivalent to Star Wars or Harry Potter. It appeals to all ages, while most comic book cartoons only appeal to kids.

This is also a major, monumental, key difference between the American comics market and Japanese manga: the biggest American comic book characters published at Marvel and DC are not owned by their creators (or creators heirs) but by the companies themselves. When Steve Ditko decided he didn't want to draw and co-write Spider-Man anymore, there was absolutely no question that the comic would keep going. But when Rumiko Takahashi decided she was done making Inu Yasha, Shogakukan didn't say, "Okay, cool, well we're gonna bring in Takashi Shiina because Inu Yasha sells a lot of Shonen Sunday."

Spawn is a creator-owned title, and one of the first major creator-owned superhero comics. In the future, maybe its mainstream success won't be so anomalous, but for now DC and Marvel's approach to their IP has more in common with Hello Kitty than with Dragon Ball Z.

 

[Zeliard]

That whole laughable episode with Captain America not dying but simply being transported to an alternate dimension by a magical bullet, well, these are the sorts of things that don't really help the general perception of superhero storylines as arbitrary and utterly meaningless.

 

[smurfx]

i never got into american comics because i never knew what the hell was going on. i wanted to read about particular bad guys but i never knew where to start. i really loved the art though and i loved watching the cartoons as a kid.

 

[shintoki]

=
EDIT - Wait the Japanese anime market is declining world-wide?

The anime market is dying for similar reasons. When a declining market decides to heavily exploit(Nickle and Dime) the niche market. All it does is separate itself more from recovery and once their niche source runs dry. Fucked :lol Basically the American Market adapted to a fair price rate too late(No more bullshit 30$ releases for 3 episodes) after piracy became widespread. Japanese companies continue to be a bitch with licensing worldwide, while also continuing with a similar price scheme the American companies did(as mentioned above).

The Manga market is doing much better overall, but they still have an ass load of problems. Specifically with licensing and worldwide releases. Outside of major series and Yaoi, Seldom will anything else get licensed.

 

[Dead Man]

Another thing I would like to mention is how hard it was for people not strongly invested in comic books to follow the story lines. Big events, which was far too common in the '90s, would fracture its story line across multiple books. For instance, part 1 of a major event story line may start in, say, Cable#47 and part 2 in X-Men #13, part 3 in New Mutants #56 etc...That's too much work for the casual consumer to follow.

That and price are the main things stopping me from getting back into comics.

 

[IrishNinja]

That whole laughable episode with Captain America not dying but simply being transported to an alternate dimension by a magical bullet, well, these are the sorts of things that don't really help the general perception of superhero storylines as arbitrary and utterly meaningless.

yeah, Warren Ellis had a lot of interesting things to say about this in Come In Alone.

some silly answers here, some really good ones - i think evilore's on the money about digital distribution, marvel's online is growing well these days, but they gotta fight tooth-and-nail with local retailers, formerly their biggest venue, but id argue that's held them back for years now too.

and yeah, last i saw, anime wasnt doing so well worldwide, hence the apt comparison in regards to feverishly pandering to a smaller & smaller base.

FYI Diamond is losing it's distribution right at the beginning of next year. Expect a big push from marvel and dc for smaller distributors and digital.

wait, really? that's pretty big news, diamond's had shit on lock for years now. should be interesting seeing how things go now, for books & merch both.

 

[madara]

Can't honestly say I've tried to get into comics as an adult many moons ago and outside sandman my friends and I found reading them abit embarrassing if your not a kid.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Nope. R&D costs have been ongoing for a number of years and didn't suddenly spike last quarter. Manufacturing setup costs, I'll grant you, but R&D isn't the reason. They've been spending millions for years, ever since the start of the generation.

Last quarter, they made an operating profit any company would be proud of. They lost a huge amount of money on a currency hedge that went against them (something they've benefited from in a big way in the past), so they had to write down a huge transactional cost (in the billions of Yen), which at the end of the day means that they lost money for the quarter.

Were it not for that, people would still have been posting the "It Prints Money" gif whenever anyone mentioned
Nintendo.

...so is Nintendo screwed?

Spoiler

Pretending that if they weren't releasing the 3DS.

The anime market is dying for similar reasons. When a declining market decides to heavily exploit(Nickle and Dime) the niche market. All it does is separate itself more from recovery and once their niche source runs dry. Fucked :lol Basically the American Market adapted to a fair price rate too late(No more bullshit 30$ releases for 3 episodes) after piracy became widespread. Japanese companies continue to be a bitch with licensing worldwide, while also continuing with a similar price scheme the American companies did(as mentioned above).

The Manga market is doing much better overall, but they still have an ass load of problems. Specifically with licensing and worldwide releases. Outside of major series and Yaoi, Seldom will anything else get licensed.

I see. What are some examples of licensing issues?

 

[Takao]

I see. What are some examples of licensing issues?

On the anime side: Japanese companies may be reprehensive to any North American company trying to stream or simulcast a series (although this has softened a lot over recent years). Some Japanese companies enforce odd name changes, weird release patterns, requirements to get a title on TV, etc. Then there are companies who are notorious for sending North American and European companies incomplete goods (like not getting all the opening animations for the shows, recieving masters with test footage, etc.). Some also can take months to send the material over (scripts, video, BGM, etc), allowing any buzz a series may have had to simply die.

Issues also arise due to any licensed music (one of the latest cases is of an Oasis song in Eden of the East only being allowed to be played in one episode), manga creators being overly protective (rumored to be the reason why the world no longer knows who Sailor Moon is), etc.

I don't know much about the manga side. But I'd imagine it's over protective owners, and publishers. The manga side is very much afraid of digital. They're making some movement there, but like the anime side, it's more so to provide an alternative to piracy rather than some trend setting idea.

 

[IrishNinja]

Can't honestly say I've tried to get into comics as an adult many moons ago and outside sandman my friends and I found reading them abit embarrassing if your not a kid.

no offense, but that's also a big part of the problem right there: small-mindedness about an entire format. if you're "embarrassed" about big guns, big titty books..don't read those books, there's plenty of sandman-level books out there, and a number of threads here on GAF on which titles those are.

 

[ToxicAdam]

This is another thing I was gonna mention. Hey you want to check out that new Batman storyline? Sure it sounds cool. Okay well you have to pick up Batman #733, then Detective Comics #693, then next month Robin #94 and then Catwoman #173, and yes it will have different artists and writers each issue! And make sure you go and buy them the first day because there is only one comic book shop in a 60 mile radius and some douchebag will go and buy up all the copies so he can resell them at a convention next month! So intimidating for a casual observer to get into. It's really just a horrible medium for attracting new customers. It seems like the entire industry is just run to cater to the old, die hard fans and their fear of change. If the video game industry was run the same way we'd probably still be playing 16 bit 2D games right now.

This is what drove me from comics. But it was happening in the late 80's.

 

[norinrad]

I found them way too expensive so i quit reading them.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

All the answers in this thread are correct...

 

[seat]

I went through my comics from the 90s a few weeks ago and I can't believe how much money I put into that shiny/holographic garbage. 90s superhero comics are a disgrace and an embarrassment.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

I've noticed they always seem to open up a story with their best artists and then let the scrotes who can't draw finish off the story.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Not enough scantily clad big buxom vixens.