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Can we agree CW Villains> MCU Villains: Spoilers

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TheFlow

Banned
Well I wasn't part of the discussion until now, so slow your roll, son.

Acting and writing.

Vincent D'Onofrio is amazingly compelling as a villain. Matt Murdock wants to preserve Hell Kitchen as he remembers it and keep the locals where he feels they belong. Wilson Fisk wants to revitalize the area, raising his home to a promience he feels the region deserves. Both men want what they believe is the best for Hell's Kitchen and in the wash, Fisk's ultimate end goal might actually be better for the neighborhood.

Fisk is a thug who wants to a businessman, but for whom the weapons of criminality work so well. A violent man, prone to fits of rage, due in part to the past rage of his father. Once again, parallels. The death of both fathers essentially created Fisk and Daredevil, but Fisk was the instrument of his father's death. It was a necessary act of self-defense, but it was still murder. His road to what he sees as herodom was tainted from the beginning.

Fisk is also horribly sympathetic. You can actually see that not only does he believe this is the best for Hell's Kitchen and everyone in it, but he is also a man that loves deeply. He craves it. Vanessa, his mother, even Wesley.

The best villains are the ones who you can see yourself in their shoes.

Wilson Fisk is an amazing villain.
Nah

Fisk is introduced as an rich crime boss who throws a tantrum every time he doesn't get what he wants. Talks in a raspy voice for no reason. Might as well put him in Gotham. Later on we find out he was poor and had an abusive father. Ok and? We see this type of character every where. Fisk wants to make hell kitchen a better place but through bad means. Ok cool so does every other villain. Almost every comic book villain thinks they are in the right and making the world a better place.

There is no reason to feel bad for Fisk what so ever outside of flashbacks.

Cottonmouth is a way better villain.
 
Nah

Fisk is introduced as an rich crime boss who throws a tantrum every time he doesn't get what he wants. Talks in a raspy voice for no reason. Might as well put him in Gotham. Later on we find out he was poor and had an abusive father. Ok and? We see this type of character every where. Fisk wants to make hell kitchen a better place but through bad means. Ok cool so does every other villain. Almost every comic book villain thinks they are in the right and making the world a better place.

There is no reason to feel bad for Fisk what so ever outside of flashbacks.

Cottonmouth is a way better villain.

I'd put Cottonmouth right next to Fisk, for the same reasons I illustrated previously.

And I completely disagree with everything else written in the post. Like I said, different dimensions and I think more folks are over in mine. Anecdotal and all.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
the_shadow_king.gif


Truth

Gif is missing the second half!

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That show pulled off the horror vibe way too well.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Can't compare tv to movie villains. Of course tv villains will be more fleshed out. Nice try OP.

To answer to the extent of comparing tv to tv, I will say no. Reason being is because the CW writers keep making them parodies of themselves. Reverse Flash was great up until season 2 of legends of tomorrow. Horrible. Just horrible. Same with Merlyn, he was fantastic in season 1 and 2 of Arrow. Going forward with the whole league bit and the chopping off of his hand... just just horrible. They started out great but, became jokes.

You see how they're bringing back Slade. You see that? You know why they're doing that?

I am also in agreement that shadow king is top tier and how it should be done. Co-signing on Fisk as well, perfection.

Reverse Flash was great in Legends S2, but I see what you mean. It's sooooo hard to watch an evil speedster, because the majority of the time you're just wondering why he hasn't killed everyone yet.
 

TheFlow

Banned
I'd put Cottonmouth right next to Fisk, for the same reasons I illustrated previously.

And I completely disagree with everything else written in the post. Like I said, different dimensions and I think more folks are over in mine.
Just because more people agree with you doesn't make your opinion right but of course you know that.

Every person has a different take. I read too many comics and movies that Fisk came off boring. You are welcome to disagree. Not my job to convince you :p

Edit:cottonmouth will forever be above kingpin because he never turned into a 5 year old. Fisk will always be inferior to the comics/animated versions
 

wamberz1

Member
Shiieeet I always thought purple man was the king of TV superhero show villains but the more I remember about the Shadow King and how utterly fucking terrifying it was the more I'm thinking it may hold the crown.
Screen-Shot-2017-02-27-at-7.36.16-PM.png

No fucking thank you
 

jph139

Member
Fisk is a great villain because it's all internal. D'Onofrio plays him well - this huge ball of rage just barely simmering beneath the surface of a quiet, placid mountain of a man. It's all about what he DOESN'T do, even if he can, or wants to.

The CW villains are pretty much the opposite. Very external with clear motivations, big actions, not much to hide. Kilgrave is the same way. Absolutely an open book.

Fisk sort of shifts to an external character in S2, but it's a reasonable evolution after he gives up trying to be a good man.
 
Just because more people agree with you doesn't make your opinion right but of course you know that.

Every person has a different take. I read too many comics and movies that Fisk came off boring. You are welcome to disagree. Not my job to convince you :p

Already there, man. Hence: "different dimensions" and "anecdotal and all". I ain't trying to say you can't have your opinions.
 
Just because more people agree with you doesn't make your opinion right but of course you know that.

Every person has a different take. I read too many comics and movies that Fisk came off boring. You are welcome to disagree. Not my job to convince you :p

I liked TV Fisk, but I didn't understand the hype. Good, not great. Mostly, I found his way of speaking to be really irritating and overly mannered. He would have played fine more naturalistically.

He's no Kilgrave. Or Shadow King.
 

TheFlow

Banned
I liked TV Fisk, but I didn't understand the hype. Good, not great. Mostly, I found his way of speaking to be really irritating and overly mannered. He would have played fine more naturalistically.

He's no Kilgrave. Or Shadow King.
Yea. he served his purpose. The way he talks is annoying to me as well. Not going to lie the kingpin from the Ben affleck daredevil movie was more menancing imo.

Ok time to start legion
 
Reverse Flash was great in Legends S2, but I see what you mean. It's sooooo hard to watch an evil speedster, because the majority of the time you're just wondering why he hasn't killed everyone yet.

Yep, the reveal where he kills Cisco is just great. So far none of the villains in the MCU/Netflixverse have come anywhere close to Thawne.

But, they really didn't. He was horrible in legends. The big climatic fight was basically him grabbing himself from different points of time to bully the legends into giving him the spear. hahaha a speed mirage would have done that.

Season 1 Flash already showed what he is capable of. Also, when he gets his big wish with the spear, he decides not to go home but, to stay in 2017? He also imprisons the black racer instead of destroying it? He has the freaking spear of destiny, come on.

My point is there is such thing as over-fleshing out a character. I can go into Merlyn but, I won't. That makes even more mad.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
Shiieeet I always thought purple man was the king of TV superhero show villains but the more I remember about the Shadow King and how utterly fucking terrifying it was the more I'm thinking it may hold the crown.
Screen-Shot-2017-02-27-at-7.36.16-PM.png

No fucking thank you
YellowEyes.gif


Show definitely gave me the willies.
Okay let's just do this again because again, Lenny is greatness:

tumblr_omwbmjwAxV1qiaxzfo2_540.gif


legion-3.gif


jCRA8sL.gif

This show needs to hit Netflix so these villain threads become more one sided.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
I don't understand.

We have DC movies and DC TV shows. We have Marvel movies and Marvel TV shows.

Wouldn't it make sense to compare movie villains to movie villains and TV show villains to TV show villains?

With the exception of Ledger's Joker, Marvel movie villains shit all over DC movie villains. DC TV villains and Marvel TV villains are closer.
 
AIDA > Ultron (But that's Marvel vs. Marvel)
Prometheus/Adrian Chase > Most MCU villains
Slade Wilson > Most MCU villains

But the rest, no. Not really in my opinion. Only Damien Dahrk and Trickster comes close to the first three I mentioned, and he's still 2nd tier. But CW villains don't come close to the Marvel TV show villains.

Damn no Wells/Thawne or Cold? Smh
 

LotusHD

Banned
But, they really didn't. He was horrible in legends. The big climatic fight was basically him grabbing himself from different points of time to bully the legends into giving him the spear. hahaha a speed mirage would have done that.

Season 1 Flash already showed what he is capable of. Also, when he gets his big wish with the spear, he decides not to go home but, to stay in 2017? He also imprisons the black racer instead of destroying it? He has the freaking spear of destiny, come on.

My point is there is such thing as over-fleshing out a character. I can go into Merlyn but, I won't. That makes even more mad.

I just meant great in terms of humor and his rapport with everyone else, namely the rest of the LoD

Legends is that show where I just turn my brain off and enjoy how nonsensical it is, since clearly it realizes that is what it does best.

Wouldn't it make sense to compare movie villains to movie villains and TV show villains to TV show villains?

That's what we're basically doing now lol

And everyone hyping up Legion is entirely on point.

Mhm
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
You're comparing villains that get sometimes a television season's worth of development versus villains that get a movie runtime's worth of development at best.

Even the most mediocre of villains can get the upperhand in that scenario.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
Shiieeet I always thought purple man was the king of TV superhero show villains but the more I remember about the Shadow King and how utterly fucking terrifying it was the more I'm thinking it may hold the crown.
Screen-Shot-2017-02-27-at-7.36.16-PM.png

No fucking thank you

I had no idea Claymation Hitler was a comic book villain.
 
Just to name a few.

wilson

Delusional friendzoned manbaby.

Eobard Thawn

He's okay.

Captain Cold

Just cause fans love him doesn't mean he's a good villain. He's a likeable character that switches from anti-villain to anti-hero, he's hardly menacing.

Malcolm Merlyn

Has more than overstayed his welcome. He had potential, but that went to utter shit.

Not to turn this into an Marvel/DC fanboy fight, but AoS has better villains by itself, and that's not even talking about Fisk, Kilgrave, Nobu, Madam Gao, Cottonmouth, Black Mariah or Diamonback.
 

TheFlow

Banned
Holy shit legion is actually pretty good. 8 episodes too makes me want to binge this all. Nice to see bright colors outside of flash
 
Holy shit legion is actually pretty good. 8 episodes too makes me want to binge this all. Nice to see bright colors outside of flash

Worth it.

And a couple of things, no spoilery:

1) It was right to be just 8 episodes. As much as I love Marvel Netflix, the shows drag with filler. Zero filler here.

2) Originally conceived as part of the X-Men CU, but they decided to make it separate. great idea. While you lose crossover opportunities, the series doesn't have to juggle the continuity of a whole universe and worry about matching it tonally.
 

dabig2

Member
Can we all agree that can we all agree threads are usually bullshit, especially ones dedicated to overwrought and overdone fanboy company wars? No? Well screw you, cause they are.

Anyways, Garrett on AoS >>>>> all.

LL
 
Why are we not counting Netflix shows and Cable TV Marvel shows? They are still MCU. They won't reference it in the movie but there's still stuff referenced here and there and Avengers 2 was started bc of a mission in AoS right?
 
Can we all agree that can we all agree threads are usually bullshit, especially ones dedicated to overwrought and overdone fanboy company wars? No? Well screw you, cause they are.

Anyways, Garrett on AoS >>>>> all.

LL

That's why I keep comparing Marvel TV to Marvel MCU when possible. I don't really care which universe they are in or what company they originally came from, but man, people really do.

Decades of propaganda starting with Stan's Soapbox has taken horrible, horrible root in that people look at the company first, content second much of the time.
 

TheFlow

Banned
Worth it.

And a couple of things, no spoilery:

1) It was right to be just 8 episodes. As much as I love Marvel Netflix, the shows drag with filler. Zero filler here.

2) Originally conceived as part of the X-Men CU, but they decided to make it separate. great idea. While you lose crossover opportunities, the series doesn't have to juggle the continuity of a whole universe and worry about matching it tonally.
Will keep in mind. Looking forward to posting my impressions in the legion the thread
 

VeeP

Member
They've said it's unlikely that the characters from the television shows and movies will crossover.

That doesn't mean it's not in the same universe.

Their the same universe, kind of. In that yea, Netflix Shows and Agents of Shield reference MCU.

But the MCU will never reference, or have guests from the shows.

Kind of a one way deal.

I think the closest we'll ever get is Sif in Agents of Shield.
 
Their the same universe, kind of. In that yea, Netflix Shows and Agents of Shield reference MCU.

But the MCU will never reference, or have guests from the shows.

Kind of a one way deal.

I think the closest we'll ever get is Sif in Agents of Shield.
Nick Fury, Mariah Hill
 
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