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[IceIpor]

The easiest way to explain it is this:

Although you post anonymously and it doesn't affect you, people still read and take things personally.
Just like talking to them face to face, posting on the internet is still a form of communication. Sometimes their only method of communication.
It hurts when they feel like they have no one on their side or that somehow they are hated and hounded for no perceivable reason.

Telling them to grow a thicker skin doesn't tell them why people hate them or how to stop it.

The Gamergate thing was basically a group of people gathering together to push their hate messages/harassment on a person who's viewpoints were counter to theirs... so far.

 

[friz898]

If this is how you feel about people criticizing you, imagine how it feels to be insulted by hundreds more every time you share an opinion.

You don't want to leave Neogaf, but why are you okay with telling other people to 'just' leave if they get harassed?

This isn't even considering how this might bleed into real life like swating and posting private information online.

I read this, and I'm like "huh?" obviously that means I don't get it. Maybe my bad and not yours. But I'm working hard here to express myself in my crazy moment of sharing my opinion on NeoGAF.



Ok, as far as NeoGAF goes. I really like this msg board, I do not want a mod to find a realize for me not to be able to read "XXX review thread" or "XXX is coming to _____ system". I'm a gamer-nerd first-and-foremost. That's all i care about. As far as NeoGAF goes.

But having like the popular vote or whatever with NeoGAF, that I don't care about. Nor should I. I can't be callous and just say whatever I want, and that's what I like most about NeoGAF, it's not GameFAQs.

But yes, I still have strong opinions on this stuff. Again, I am most likely in the minority, but if you really think I'm the only one, or only of a handful that has these opinions ... then that's just as naive as thinking the sun revolved around the Earth. Thousands of lurkers. Plenty of people who read and don't post, or people who don't even click on the link (like I usually don't) because they're like "oh, another blah blah blah whatever gate thing, ya, so anyway, about that new game!"

Anyway, I got way off topic, to the person I'm quoting. But where did I say that people on NeoGAF should just leave? I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you quote it for me, because that doesn't sound like something I'd actually say.

I would tell my son, if he had an account here, which of course he's not ready for at 11, that if he got some PM's telling him 'insert-the-meanest-things-you-can-think-of-here' thatif he brought it to me, i'd be like "Son, people are mean as hell if they don't have to face you. I can't do anything about these people. If you are genuinely concerned about ____ or _____ then I would contact the police, but.. people are going to say whatever they can to get to you.. "

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Honestly surprised Gamergate got enough attention to be worthy as something a politician would be focused on dealing with vs. the myriad of other issues out there.

No offense, but it sounds like you just have no idea what GamerGate is or has been responsible for.

Sucks that other more positive aspects of the industry can't get as much attention

Yup, it's a real shame that we have to focus on an issue that is going to define the gaming community for years to come.

 

[friz898]

There's a simple saying. it's very fitting here.

"Words hurt"

I would know.

You, obviously, do not.

Words do hurt. I'm a very sensitive and touchy guy.

But.... I can't tell people ahead of time "hey guys, I'm kinda sensitive, can you please be extra-nice to me?" I mean, I could, but that would just create even more problems.

My point is that whether it's NeoGAF, an IM program, school, or something else. People are going to say shit. That will never go away. Our children (to incloude our grownups involved in gamer-gate) need to be prepared for this. It's not going away. .. in my opinion.

 

[Golnei]

The Gamersgate thing was basically a group of people gathering together to push their hate messages/harassment on a person who's viewpoints were counter to theirs... so far.

Leave Gamersgate out of this. They're a wholly above-board organisation who've done nothing in the past 10 years to deserve this association with harassment.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

"Dad, these people are ruining my life. I can't get away from it. They're even calling my employer and saying awful, horrendous things about me. I'm afraid I might lose my job!"

"Suck it up, pussy."

 

[Chariot]

Yeah, now think about people spreading lies about the son over the net. It's difficult to talk against a whole hive and could make it more difficult for him to find a job later. People calling in SWAT on your house, endangering your family, maybe leading to a death. Imagine they call in on your work. You could become a liablity for your company by having negativity buzzing around you.

 

[friz898]

I just read that bit.

That's horrible.

I mean, so dramatic. But you think I would just tell my daughter "oh, they're talking, they do that, get over it"

I mean really? You know if you think that's what I was really saying, then I apologize, bad on me for not explaining myself well/right.


That disclaimer aside, and it was honest, people are going to mess with people for their entire lives. Guys and Girls. I'm going to want my daughter to be tough. I'm going to want her to be able to deal the pressures of the real world.


I'm going to do my part to protect her, but what if she marries 3-4 times. Marries jerks or whatever who doesn't take care of her. Who's going to be there for her when the guy at the bar says "hey, you've been flirting with m all night, you need to do something" or whatever drunk dudes say to girls thinking their entitled.


Hopefully she's going to be well-prepared to stand her ground and handle this dude. Hopefully she won't be shocked that some drunk dude think she "owes" him something. I'm going to prepare my daughter for life. Online stalking (has nobody seen the recent movie called Unfriended?) is going to be something there for ever.. it's never going to go away.

While some people try to "fix it", I'm going to be busy telling my daughter hey, people are f'ed in the head, and.. be prepared for this stuff baby-girl.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yeah, now think about people spreading lies about the son over the net. It's difficult to talk against a whole hive and could make it more difficult for him to find a job later. People calling in SWAT on your house, endangering your family, maybe leading to a death. Imagine they call in on your work. You could become a liablity for your company by having negativity buzzing around you.

We're talking about a community of people that thought a reasonable response to not liking Activision was to call up Bobby Kotick's dates and tell them not to date him.

 

[Hackworth]

Heads up to all those saying "step away from the computer to escape harassment": that's about when gamergate starts SWATting you or calling up your employers to try and convince them you're a pedo

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

"I can't get away from it. My work requires me to maintain an online presence, and people have been threatening my life. One of them posted a mpicture of himself standing outside my place of employment. This is serious!"

"I didn't raise no crybabies."

 

[friz898]

Yeah, now think about people spreading lies about the son over the net. It's difficult to talk against a whole hive and could make it more difficult for him to find a job later. People calling in SWAT on your house, endangering your family, maybe leading to a death. Imagine they call in on your work. You could become a liablity for your company by having negativity buzzing around you.

You're not wrong.


You can what-if all day. This could happen, it's whatever, we still get our sleep, wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, do what we have to do, come home, and decompose and re-load for the next day.

It really is that simple, even if it's not really that easy.

 

[Tabris]

It's curious how my Amanda Todd question is being ignored.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Heads up to all those saying "step away from the computer to escape harassment": that's about when gamergate starts SWATting you

Or send death threats.
Or start calling your parents.
Or show up at your place of work with a knife and post it on Twitter.
Or call in a bomb threat to an entire university you will be going to.
Or tie up the lines of a suicide prevention hotline.

These are not the types of people that just stop at posting shit online.

Well, some of them are.

But the point is that, if you are dealing someone who associates with GG, it's not the most stable group.

Hell, nowadays, you don't need to be a crazy to bring online harassment into real life.

 

[friz898]

"Dad, these people are ruining my life. I can't get away from it. They're even calling my employer and saying awful, horrendous things about me. I'm afraid I might lose my job!"

"Suck it up, pussy."

Well I wouldn't say "suck it up pussy to my own 11yo son"

But I'd say "ok, what do you want me to do, after he said "nothing" or "pleae do this", i would then say, alright... in the meantime, you've got to strive on son.

Funny you said pussy. Want to hear something amusing? This is TOTALLY unrelated. The county-league football coach for my son is in hot-water with 2-3 of the moms of the kids of this 9-11 football league because he told the kids they were being a bunch of pussies, or something like that. I'm thinking, geez, i wouldn't have said that.. but at the same time, these mom's being outraged? I'm like thinking.. look you may not have those words said in YOUR house, but if you think jr is going to middle school and isn't going to hear that stuff...you're ludicrous.

Then again, this is why I'm not a football coach, lol.

 

[Nanashrew]

It's curious how my Amanda Todd question is being ignored.

I think my story even got ignored too. I think my cousin could have very well ended up there after all that if I had not been there and it's horrible to think about because she's like a sister to me.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Anyway, I got way off topic, to the person I'm quoting. But where did I say that people on NeoGAF should just leave? I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you quote it for me, because that doesn't sound like something I'd actually say.

Let me explain what I mean- Being banned on NeoGaf or any forums is like being cut off from a community. You worry about being banned because you don't want to be cut off.

You know, to be honest, I enjoy and love NeoGAF so much that I worry about posting something that first comes to mind or from the heart because I might get banned.

Now with that in mind, your suggestion/solution is to just drop out of the internet 'for a while', sure depending on the situation, a few weeks might be enough. But some of these victims were more like less marked for life, and in the worst case situation it bleeds into their daily life.

And over what really? An opinion? Their gender? It's really insane how deep this goes.

But don't just take my word for it, here's John Oliver discussing the issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNIwYsz7PI

 

[R&R]

That disclaimer aside, and it was honest, people are going to mess with people for their entire lives. Guys and Girls. I'm going to want my daughter to be tough. I'm going to want her to be able to deal the pressures of the real world.

Dealing with pressures of "real world" (because Internet is pretty damn real also especially for people whose work depend on it...which pretty soon is going to be almost everyone) is completely different than dealing with harassment. Harassment is a crime. A crime should be punished. Currently we don't have enough systems in place to effectively combat online harassment, which is exactly why there is a conversation on a political level to make the situation better.

Of course nobody is as naive to think that online harassment is just going to go away. Is murder going to go away? No. Is rape going to go away? No. But there are systems in place to penalize murderers and rapists, which is an effective tool to combat them, thus less murders and rapes happen. Same can be achieved with online harassment. Simple.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I can't believe my native country has a human being for a leader again. I wonder how long until politics ruins him.

 

[friz898]

It's curious how my Amanda Todd question is being ignored.

I simply haven't googled it buddy. That's all.

 

[R&R]

I simply haven't googled it buddy. That's all.

There you go dude, googled it for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I mean, we're talking about a group of people so far up their own ass about their superiority and holiness that one of them called in a bomb threat to their own panel to prove that women lie about GG sending bomb/death threats, another one actually tried to join a legit middle-east terrorist group, and yet another accused his ex-girlfriend of killing thousands of people in the future.

This is not the most stable group.
This is not a group that is just trolling on a message board.

 

[virtualS]

Left leaning politicians certainly know what to say to gain popularily... initially.

 

[hobblygobbly]

Kind of sad that a prime minister has to come out and say this while industry leaders are still quiet about it (barring a few isolated remarks by some company CEOs like Mike Morhaime, good on him - although GG thinks he was agreeing with them which is hilarious, shows how delusional they are.). Regardless it's good and refreshing to see a politician be aware of this and have a stance on it.

 

[friz898]

Let me explain what I mean- Being banned on NeoGaf or any forums is like being cut off from a community. You worry about being banned because you don't want to be cut off.




Now with that in mind, your suggestion/solution is to just drop out of the internet 'for a while', sure depending on the situation, a few weeks might be enough. But some of these victims were more like less marked for life, and in the worst case situation it bleeds into their daily life.

And over what really? An opinion? Their gender? It's really insane how deep this goes.

But don't just take my word for it, here's John Oliver discussing the issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNIwYsz7PI

Well. If NeoGAF became some threatening place for me, either because it was out of control, or because I brought the hate upon myself, eventually whether banned, or because I quit going to the site, I'd have to make a decision or do something right?

I mean, NeoGAF is awesome. But, unlike a lot of the folk here, I really don't know any of the users. Wario64 stands out. So does Aenea or Kagari because of my favorite games DQ and FF, then you hav eto give props to Nirolak because he's just awesome.

Props aside, it's not like NeoGAF has a 'con' every year and it would be hard for me to detach myself. The hardest part would be knowning i'm missing new-news. Not the community. Nothing against NeoGAF but this msg board is so huge that if someone knows your name, well hell, you're either a big deal, or what-have you.

So I probably typed all that and made you think "dude, you're not getting it" and that's maybe true, but my point is, yes, drop off the internet. If the issues goes to the circumstances you laid out, then ya, fight it. But it's not like this should be a shock. I mean.. it doesn't make it right, but it's not going away.

My opinion, and that's what everything I say is, is that we should not be "outraged" on this stuff. We should almost come to expect it. And instead, we should be educating our children how to overcome it, because it's NOT going away. And to go back to the original point, a Canadian Prime Minister isn't going to fix this, and this should not be in his top 10 list of issues.


1-2 people quoted me and said he just kinda mentioned it. That's cool, i mean it's whatever, but I really, really do hope he has bigger things on his plate to fix in the world than online harassment.

Lets put it in perspective. I can send a very hateful PM to a member of NeoGAF. If i did my due diligence of internet snooping, I could figure out what state they were in, or find out things they were in to, I could freak them out. The majority of the people who post on this message board know all this about the internet.

When I send this very disturbing message, is the guy going to be upset? Probably. If he totally shuts down, or asks NeoGAF how they're going to protect or take care of him, then uh.. he'll be in for a rude awakening, he'll need to simply "strive on" and ignore it, or he'll to arm himself with the knowledge to one-up his harasser. <shrug> whatever makes the original victim feel "even".





Again, anybody who gets charged up on anything i say, it's just my opinion. We're on a message board. A gamer one at that.

 

[Hackworth]

I mean, we're talking about a group of people so far up their own ass about their superiority and holiness that one of them called in a bomb threat to their own panel to prove that women lie about GG sending bomb/death threats, another one actually tried to join a legit middle-east terrorist group, and yet another accused his ex-girlfriend of killing thousands of people in the future.

Man I thought I was keeping good track of GG but this is new and troubling bullshit.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

another one actually tried to join a legit middle-east terrorist group

wut

I missed this one.

 

[mugwhump]

yeah well the NDP would've been even more against gg

 

[the_batman]

Leading a G7 country through an economic stagnation, environmental plan preparation for the Paris discussions, re-defining the ISIL combat patterns, re-defining and containing our version of the Patriot Act, repealing an act that limits citizenship status of immigrants, increasing Syrian refugee status, repairing relations with multiple countries that have been harmed, legalizing marijuana, determining how to enact the best voter reform, etc.

Stop trying to trivialize Canada because of your American insecurity.

i was joking but now that you mention it, what Canada does IS trivial compared to the US.

The US is obviously a part of the G7 and we're going through economic stagnation more relevant to the world economy than Canada, actually fighting against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, maintaining countless military bases around the world because if something goes wrong of course we'll have to bear the burden of helping people, maintaining our Patriot Act because you know we've actually been attacked, sending aid to multiple groups of people around the world, watching over North Korea in case it tries to attack South Korea, watching over China in case it tries to cyber-attack us, watching over Russia in case they get bored and try to invade neighboring countries, helping Iran and the middle east by lifting sanctions and placing regulations, i could go on and on.

yeah well the NDP would've been even more against gg

the who now?

 

[hodgy100]

I would tell my son, if he had an account here, which of course he's not ready for at 11, that if he got some PM's telling him 'insert-the-meanest-things-you-can-think-of-here' thatif he brought it to me, i'd be like "Son, people are mean as hell if they don't have to face you. I can't do anything about these people. If you are genuinely concerned about ____ or _____ then I would contact the police, but.. people are going to say whatever they can to get to you.. "

yeah the odd mean comment is ok to brush off. But then lets say they got your address, posted it online and now you start receiving physical hate mail from hundreds of people. you then get swatted and the police recommend you move out your home while things settle down. is that ok?

 

[IceIpor]

Leave Gamersgate out of this. They're a wholly above-board organisation who've done nothing in the past 10 years to deserve this association with harassment.

Yeah, sorry. Edited out the s.

 

[Mailbox]

Again, anybody who gets charged up on anything i say, it's just my opinion. We're on a message board. A gamer one at that.

If this is how you truly feel, then you are part of the problem.

Just because this is a forum (or as you put it "a gaming one"), that doesn't excuse hate, vitriol, threats, etc.

Every member here should feel safe, and if you think that just because we are a gamer forum means that things shouldn't be taken seriously and that basic social decency and emotional structures of people should be void, then you have come to the wrong place entirely.

A person has the right to be afraid if someone they do not know knows where they are and says that they will be hurt.

 

[Vagabundo]

I mean, we're talking about a group of people so far up their own ass about their superiority and holiness that one of them called in a bomb threat to their own panel to prove that women lie about GG sending bomb/death threats, another one actually tried to join a legit middle-east terrorist group, and yet another accused his ex-girlfriend of killing thousands of people in the future.

This is not the most stable group.
This is not a group that is just trolling on a message board.

lol On the plus side the backlash they have instigated seems to be moving things on at a much faster pace that would have otherwise happened. So I suppose we have a lot to thank GG for.

And this kind of lunacy has always been around, even pre internet.Sure look at the woman who started the first Women's Shelter in the UK - harassment, death threats, bomb threat etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

EDIT All I want is to choose a damn female Link for my kid, dammit nintendo it's impossible to tell if he/she is a boy or girl already.

 

[hodgy100]

I mean, we're talking about a group of people so far up their own ass about their superiority and holiness that one of them called in a bomb threat to their own panel to prove that women lie about GG sending bomb/death threats, another one actually tried to join a legit middle-east terrorist group, and yet another accused his ex-girlfriend of killing thousands of people in the future.

This is not the most stable group.
This is not a group that is just trolling on a message board.

That bomb threat on the media "ethics" talk ended up being from a gamergater? oh wow that was being peddled as a "feminists are just as bad too" which regardless is a bit of a daft argument to make, as jsut because there are some crazies in the world doesn't mean there isn't a problem. but for it to turn out to be a fake like the BLM vandalism stuff. wow.

Could I have a link for that please?

 

[Par Score]

Amazing.

Now imagine if EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. had made this sort of strong statement last September, maybe this cancerous movement could have been nipped in the bud.

At this point it would barely register, since GG has long since moved on to being a more generalised right-wing hate group, but the silence from the industry at the start of this whole mess was fucked up.

 

[Nightbird]

Amazing.

Now imagine if EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. had made this sort of strong statement last September, maybe this cancerous movement could have been nipped in the bud.

At this point it would barely register, since GG has long since moved on to being a more generalised right-wing hate group, but the silence from the industry at the start of this whole mess was fucked up.

But you gotta understand, they didn't want to pass of their audience :'(

 

[Kinyou]

I wonder what actual action he'll take

 

[TheSlySoul]

Or send death threats.
Or start calling your parents.
Or show up at your place of work with a knife and post it on Twitter.
Or call in a bomb threat to an entire university you will be going to.
Or tie up the lines of a suicide prevention hotline.

These are not the types of people that just stop at posting shit online.

Well, some of them are.

But the point is that, if you are dealing someone who associates with GG, it's not the most stable group.

Hell, nowadays, you don't need to be a crazy to bring online harassment into real life.

That is my biggest issue. While 4chan is terrible, most of them only do it online. GG is worse because it is a harassment group.

 

[Lexxism]

I realize the Prime Minister of Canada doesn't get the respect the President of the United States gets, but threatening the head of state of a G8 nation has to be one of the stupidest things you can do today on the Internet.

Of course. I mean, they are just thinking it's just Canada. They won't do a shit.

 

[Sami+]

trudeau da gawd

Oh damn I'm straight but he's hot &#128511;&#128166;

 

[OminoMichelin]

You're not wrong.


You can what-if all day. This could happen, it's whatever, we still get our sleep, wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, do what we have to do, come home, and decompose and re-load for the next day.

It really is that simple, even if it's not really that easy.

Can I just say? Most parents I know would fume at the thought their children could be harassed. It's natural to be at least a little obsessed with negative scenarios.
You...seem to be unable to empathize with scenarios that have happened to other people and are happening right now. People in this thread showed you several examples.
For example, if the trend isn't reversed, your (hypothetical) daughter is very likely to not be able to keep a tech job becuse of harassment. This is something that, statistically, is very likely to happen today.
I don't know if you're being very optimistic about this issue or are just trying to escape reality. People have died due to online harassmentm hence this is now an issue that's well worth the attention of public officials.

By the way, the only reason anyone would say "grow a thick skin" in this day and age is because you've never been object of persistent harassment yourself. It-doesn't-work. Being alone doesn't work. Depression and isolation is not something you can shrug off and pretend it doesn't exist.


IT: good on canada to hve finally a seemingly cool PM.

 

[Lemondish]

about that

then again you are using past tense

Yeah, I was kind of poking fun at the controversy. I had read the amendments they proposed and largely knew of the intended targets for any overhaul. I had fully supported them for quite some time on this, contrary to the whims of popular opinion.

In any case, I'm impressed thus far. Let's see what they've accomplished in a year and if we're still gushing about him. I predict yes.

Like his father, I predict a deeply polarizing opinion will surface.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Canada

You got it so easy when you can campaign on a platform of Video Game etiquette

 

[Professor Renegade]

Good guy Trudeau, glad I voted Liberal.

 

[Guileless]

I wonder what actual action he'll take

1) continue to criticize misogyny/unsafe speech/Gamergate to signal he's in the supporters' tribe; or

2) make Canadians register with the government in order to get access to the internet, and create a government watchdog to police online speech with the power to punish transgressors in such a way as to create disincentives to break the law. The new agency would be financed by something like the UK's TV license tax.

 

[Mailbox]

1) continue to criticize misogyny/unsafe speech/Gamergate to signal he's in the supporters' tribe; or

2) make Canadians register with the government in order to get access to the internet, and create a government watchdog to police online speech with the power to punish transgressors in such a way as to create disincentives to break the law. The new agency would be financed by something like the UK's TV license tax.

Well, he's not Harper so.... I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 1 is most likely

 

[Dryk]

You can what-if all day. This could happen, it's whatever, we still get our sleep, wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, do what we have to do, come home, and decompose and re-load for the next day.

This isn't a what-if. This is literally happening to multiple people, right now, all of it.

Well, he's not Harper so.... I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 1 is most likely

Sometimes that's all you need. Rhetoric from the top can be pretty powerful.

 

[Guileless]

Well, he's not Harper so.... I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 1 is most likely

Then we're back to churchgoers nodding along with John Lithgow while the kids are organizing underground dances.

 

[Spiritwalker]

GG really is a cancer lol

they're so beyond pathetic I don't even know where to begin

so congrats canada, your new bossu seems like a decent guy.

 

[Apt101]

That dude is probably swimming in it. Needs to wear a fucking life vest.