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[nib95]

Was there any doubt? Lol.

 

[Cruzader]

Removing the Other OS was an unnecessary move, as they could have patched it in a different way maybe. All it did was bring them a lot of negative press, and a severe backlash that ended up in the PSN being hacked. Sony should have never removed it that way, it was a disrespectful thing to do to your customers. While they have every right to protect their interests, they shouldn't have trampled over their customers' rights in the process. It will be interesting to see what they do with the PS4 though, I really hope this incident does not make them release a completely closed system.

You contradicted yourself. You don't want Sony to take away "your rights" but don't want a closed system?

To avoid shit like this, I hope it's a closed system. Fuck Linux or some niche BS feature that can be a security threat.

Sad to say buy it's better than dealing with headaches. But I see that already with Vita, so I'm glad.

 

[Alexios]

when you bought that ps3 you could play all the games released. when otheros was removed, you could play all the games released. You still can play all the games that were released prior to the otheros removal and a few more released after the fact.

Except you can't play all games because those include PSN features like DLC, downloadable games, online play, and other functions you're blocked from if you don't update. Such content existed before the introduction of that update, you know, and you're not blocked off it because of something malicious you did, but because of what Sony did.

And again, the update doesn't add a wholly new component newer games want to use like DX10 on Windows Vista and 7, it's merely there to remove a feature completely separate to the things they may have added, with forced arbitary checks on newer games to enforce it. It's not the act of removing OtherOS that makes other games function like the act of introducing DX10 is what makes games that require it function. It's a completely separate forced check.

 

[Alexios]

dp.

 

[DangerousDave]

The correct analogy is the multiplayer part of the games or even MMO, that get shutdown over time if there is no a significative numbers of users.

The online part is advertided (es even, sometimes, the whole product) more than linux was ever advertised on PS3.

Keeping the servers open has some costs that are much bigger than the benefits of the sales that give you keeping them active. In the same way, keeping linux had a potencial bigger cost than the benefits of the sales of linux.

The only possible difference is if a MMO is a "service" instead of a "feature" like linux. But in MMO, the online part is the whole product, in PS3, linux is a very unused feature, from the total amount of PS3 users. In a MMO, even when is shutdown, is used by a larger percentage of the userbase that bought the product.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I am all against removing features but lets be honest, Other OS was pretty much useless anyway. Good riddance.

 

[Alexios]

The correct analogy is the multiplayer part of the games or even MMO, that get shutdown over time if there is no a significative numbers of users.

The online part is advertided (es even, sometimes, the whole product) more than linux was ever advertised on PS3.

Keeping the servers open has some costs that are much bigger than the benefits of the sales that give you keeping them active. In the same way, keeping linux had a potencial bigger cost than the benefits of the sales of linux.

The only possible difference is if a MMO is a "service" instead of a "feature" like linux. But in MMO, the online part is the whole product, in PS3, linux is a very unused feature, from the total amount of PS3 users. In a MMO, even when is shutdown, is used by a larger percentage of the userbase that bought the product.

Of course, in this case the games aren't shutdown for any such perhaps understanable reasons, you're just blocked off them until you gimp your system.

 

[Miburou]

The only thing more annoying than the apologists in this thread is Sony's overreaction to the whole jailbreak issue.

In principle I'm against removing this feature, especially since it has nothing to do with "security holes" or making the PS3 a better system, but rather Sony's (perceived) bottom line, but at the same time the feature has never been available on other systems, so it's harder to be outraged (then again that's what "in principle" means).

 

[DangerousDave]

Of course, in this case the games aren't shutdown for any such perhaps understanable reasons, you're just blocked off them until you gimp your system.

In the end, is economic cost in both cases. Keeping opened the servers for only a few players, keeping the firmware compatible + potential economic cost due the piracy for a linux hacking exploit, for only a few linux users.

You can say that when a MMO close, is a understanable reason. But tell it to the guy that buy Tabula Rasa in retail, and some months after, the server shutdown.

 

[ShdwDrake]

The only thing more annoying than the apologists in this thread is Sony's overreaction to the whole jailbreak issue.

In principle I'm against removing this feature, especially since it has nothing to do with "security holes" or making the PS3 a better system, but rather Sony's (perceived) bottom line, but at the same time the feature has never been available on other systems, so it's harder to be outraged (then again that's what "in principle" means).

Overreaction? After what happened to the PSP Sony is well within its rights to "overreact".

 

[Pandaman]

Except you can't play all games because those include PSN features like DLC, downloadable games, online play, and other functions you're blocked from if you don't update. Such content existed before the introduction of that update, you know, and you're not blocked off it because of something malicious you did, but because of what Sony did.

you do not and never had the right to continued uninterrupted access to the psn. your downloaded games still work if you've downloaded them. not updating does not deauth your ps3.

And again, the update doesn't add a wholly new component newer games want to use like DX10 on Windows Vista and 7, it's merely there to remove a feature completely separate to the things they may have added, with forced arbitary checks on newer games to enforce it. It's not the act of removing OtherOS that makes other games function like the act of introducing DX10 is what makes games that require it function. It's a completely separate forced check.

it doesn't matter if they added something new or not. Giving you something might make it easier for you to update on a cost/benefit analysis, but they don't have to give you something. you don't have to like either option but you do have to choose if you want to buy new games.

 

[daebo]

I wish Sony would start charging to play online and turn off PS1 backwards compatibility and so on and so forth. I love to see the apologists continue to apologize the anti consumerist mentality that sony apparently has. Don't punish us, the loyal consumers. Punish the pirates/hackers.

 

[Alexios]

In the end, is economic cost in both cases. Keeping opened the servers for only a few players, keeping the firmware compatible + potential economic cost due the piracy for a linux hacking exploit, for only a few linux users.

You can say that when a MMO close, is a understanable reason. But tell it to the guy that buy Tabula Rasa in retail, and some months after, the server shutdown.

Again, in the case of an MMO, you're not arbitarily blocked from accessing it until you accept to gimp your system, it doesn't even exist.

it doesn't matter if they added something new or not.

It matters because it shows your stupid analogy is stupid. DX10 games need DX10 to run, a wholly new component XP never promised. Firmware x.xx games are only forced to check for it to run to force you to gimp your system. And even if a new firmware does add something new that games need to run, the OtherOS removal is still a wholly separate function to such addtions and shouldn't be there.

 

[Pandaman]

I wish Sony would start charging to play online and turn off PS1 backwards compatibility and so on and so forth. I love to see the apologists continue to apologize the anti consumerist mentality that sony apparently has. Don't punish us, the loyal consumers. Punish the pirates/hackers.

Don't be an idiot, there's a difference between not liking something and thinking it is or should be illegal. Nobody likes the fact that otherOS was removed, nobody would like sony to start charging for online.

 

[DangerousDave]

I wish Sony would start charging to play online and turn off PS1 backwards compatibility and so on and so forth. I love to see the apologists continue to apologize the anti consumerist mentality that sony apparently has. Don't punish us, the loyal consumers. Punish the pirates/hackers.

Yep. They gave us divx, ps1, better xmb, tv channels, music services, games on demand, home, folding@home, video editor, 2 different photogalleries, dynamic themes, etc, etc... but they took out the linux feature that nobody cared about... RAAAAAAGEEEEEE.

 

[Theonik]

Yes.

dont go online when you're playing those games with forced updates.

Thing is, these games won't even run unless you update your PS3 so you really don't have a choice if you wanted to say play GT5. (actually I think every game released now will prompt you to update in order to play it)

 

[ShdwDrake]

Again, in the case of an MMO, you're not arbitarily blocked from accessing it until you accept to gimp your system, it doesn't even exist.

It matters because it shows your stupid analogy is stupid. DX10 games need DX10 to run, firmware x.xx games are only forced to check for it to run to force you to gimp your system.

That's false. Higher firmwares have decreased the OS footprint and allowed games to utilize more resources. I remember there being a story about this for Gran Turismo 5.

 

[Alexios]

That's false. Higher firmwares have decreased the OS footprint and allowed games to utilize more resources. I remember there being a story about this for Gran Turismo 5.

That's still a wholly separate function to removing OtherOS.

 

[Clear]

You keep using these analogies. They're way off and repeating them doesn't make them any more relevant. Just makes you look desperate.

The point I was making that if a piece of software is built to run on a certain OS version, that's the way it is. If you don't have it, you can't play. I wasn't drawing a comparison between MS OS versions and PS3 OS.

Maybe a more on-point analogy would have been what if a particular piece of PSP software requires a higher firmware revision than the version of CFW you have installed is based on. Is that Sony screwing you over, or are they just doing what is reasonable to protect their business?

I almost hate to say this but it seems to me that a lot of home-brew/hacking enthusiasts get unreasonably upset when the cat and mouse game of hacker vs provider isn't going their way.

The attitude is that "we bought your kit, and we will we do whatever we want with it", yet any defensive counter-measure by the platform holder results in cries of victimization!

I'm not saying every OtherOS user was a pirate, same as I'm not saying that everyone who installs CFW on their PSP is. What I am getting at is that a lot of people who's only interest is warez will ride-in on the coat-tails - and that, no question, is an issue that a platform holder can't afford to fail to address.

Its unfortunate that Sony's heavy handed response has denied people a feature they liked, but the fact they reacted, and that there would be consequences to that reaction, was hardly unexpexcted.

 

[Miburou]

Overreaction? After what happened to the PSP Sony is well within its rights to "overreact".

What happened to the PSP? The DS was as easy to pirate, the 360 has had piracy since the beginning, the PS1 and PS2 were easy to pirate, the Wii, too, etc., etc. What proof is there that piracy is responsible for "what happened to the PSP"? That's the argument Sony is using, that jailbreaking opens the door to piracy, piracy leads to BILLIONS of dollars lost (since the only thing keeping anyone from pirating is their inability to do so, lol), so extreme measures are justified.

 

[Miburou]

That's still a wholly separate function to removing OtherOS.

That's true, and from my experience with the PSP, forcing you to update the firmware isn't always because the game needs the firmware's newer features, just as a way to force more people to update (since spoofing the version makes the game work fine).

 

[Pandaman]

Thing is, these games won't even run unless you update your PS3 so you really don't have a choice if you wanted to say play GT5. (actually I think every game released now will prompt you to update in order to play it)

no games im aware of prompt an update that is impassable if you play offline.

GT5 can be played through an update by disabling your internet through the XMB, for example.

 

[Miburou]

no games im aware of prompt an update that is impassable if you play offline.

MGS HD Collection. You need to have 3.72 otherwise the game won't play.

 

[DangerousDave]

Again, in the case of an MMO, you're not arbitarily blocked from accessing it until you accept to gimp your system, it doesn't even exist.

No, you are arbitarily blocked from accessing it whatever you do, because the servers don't exist anymore. So is even worse because you don't have a choice.

 

[Pandaman]

MGS HD Collection. You need to have 3.72 otherwise the game won't play.

that game was released after otherOS was removed though, why would you buy a game if you cant meet the requirements to run it? we're talking about actual updates to the games themselves [games released before the removal or are compatible with otherOS firmware] that would presumably be impassable without psn access [and thus a non-otherOS machine].

games that have firmware requirements past otherOS are fine, just dont buy them.

 

[cheststrongwell]

What happened to the PSP? The DS was as easy to pirate, the 360 has had piracy since the beginning, the PS1 and PS2 were easy to pirate, the Wii, too, etc., etc. What proof is there that piracy is responsible for "what happened to the PSP"? That's the argument Sony is using, that jailbreaking opens the door to piracy, piracy leads to BILLIONS of dollars lost (since the only thing keeping anyone from pirating is their inability to do so, lol), so extreme measures are justified.

The DS isn't as easy. You still need to buy one of those R4's from some shady overseas website. Didn't have to buy anything for PSP.

 

[ShdwDrake]

What happened to the PSP? The DS was as easy to pirate, the 360 has had piracy since the beginning, the PS1 and PS2 were easy to pirate, the Wii, too, etc., etc. What proof is there that piracy is responsible for "what happened to the PSP"? That's the argument Sony is using, that jailbreaking opens the door to piracy, piracy leads to BILLIONS of dollars lost (since the only thing keeping anyone from pirating is their inability to do so, lol), so extreme measures are justified.

You didn't have t buy anything to jailbreak a PSP though. When your selling systems steadily but the software is not movie it's a huge problem. It's not like the ps2 or the ds this was worse than the dreamcast (you had to get the discs).

 

[staticneuron]

Except you can't play all games because those include PSN features like DLC, downloadable games, online play, and other functions you're blocked from if you don't update. Such content existed before the introduction of that update, you know, and you're not blocked off it because of something malicious you did, but because of what Sony did.

And again, the update doesn't add a wholly new component newer games want to use like DX10 on Windows Vista and 7, it's merely there to remove a feature completely separate to the things they may have added, with forced arbitary checks on newer games to enforce it. It's not the act of removing OtherOS that makes other games function like the act of introducing DX10 is what makes games that require it function. It's a completely separate forced check.

It has always been that way. You lose the access to things when you chose not to update. Updates have always been a choice. Just because you didn't like what was removed doesn't make the process new.

And in case you haven't notice features and changes have been added since. And like someone pointed out before the footprint could have been lowered again. It happens all the time.

The only thing more annoying than the apologists in this thread is Sony's overreaction to the whole jailbreak issue.

In principle I'm against removing this feature, especially since it has nothing to do with "security holes" or making the PS3 a better system, but rather Sony's (perceived) bottom line, but at the same time the feature has never been available on other systems, so it's harder to be outraged (then again that's what "in principle" means).

It has everything to do with security holes because that is how people were able to hack the PS3 in the first place. But this isn't about people being apologist it is more about people arguing that just because you are a consumer, doesn't mean you have carte blanche rights to step over the wishes and security of other consumers or the will of the company itself. There are rights being reserved and fought for, so when it is realized that a company has rights as well otheroOS supporters get in a tizzy. Very few used it, very few will miss it. People complain about "on principle" about one feature removed but ignore the plethora of features added over the years.

No rational thinking adult should take otherOS supporters seriously especially when they jump to extreme hyperbole to try to prove their points.

 

[Bollocks]

Oh boy, you buy a PlayStation to play games and not to boot into Linux and get your geek on, it's nice if Sony implements such a thing, but that is hardly anything that constitutes the PlayStation brand let alone be grounds to ridiculous assumptions that Sony now will cut anything they want.

Where where you when it was revealed that there is no hardware acceleration in OtherOS which makes it unusable to begin with? That was something to get upset about but not a removal of something that in the end was so gimped that it was only an attack vector for hackers.

 

[Miburou]

Let's not start splitting hairs here, please. If you had a newer PSP, you needed to buy an older battery and access to a modded PSP (or a Pandora battery from one of those "shady overseas websites"). You needed to patch newer ISOs, spoof firmwares, upgrade your custom firmware to keep up with newer games, etc. And even with an older PSP, you need a game with a known exploit.

The point is, if you really wanted to pirate (i.e. their goal was to save hundreds of dollars on games), the other systems I mentioned were easy as well.

What pissed me off is that piracy is used by companies to justify all manners of measures. Whether it's Ubisoft not releasing games on PC, Sony removing features from the PS3 and making the PSP use proprietary memory cards and a fixed battery, these are all justified by cries of piracy when it's never been proven there's a correlation between piracy and the well being of a system, nevermind a causation.

Why can't more companies think like Valve and CD Projekt/RED? (and while I'm wishing, why was jailbreaking made legal only for smartphones and not for all systems!).

 

[blitzcloud]

Games bought did not become unusable (EXCEPT those who require psn signup... which was a douche move from capcom). Future games you couldn't purchase at that point are out of the case.

I agree with the determination that this is however a case of going against a branch of your consumers... so speak with your wallet now that you know that sony may need to cut on open stuff when someone wants to toy with it in a way it risks their business.

Well, it already generated a VITA response for sure, where they have to go for a closed environment with propietary cards and stuff.

 

[railGUN]

I will admit, I do find it ironic that Sony's removal of OtherOS is what spurred fail0verflow (according to them) into working so diligently to find a way to re-enable it, which eventually lead to the root keys being discovered, which lead to GeoHot finding and releasing the the ability to run custom firmware, which eventually lead to homebrew, which eventually lead to backup managers, finally making piracy a reality on the system.

 

[blitzcloud]

I will admit, I do find it ironic that Sony's removal of OtherOS is what spurred fail0verflow (according to them) into working so diligently to find a way to re-enable it, which eventually lead to the root keys being discovered, which lead to GeoHot finding and releasing the the ability to run custom firmware, which eventually lead to homebrew, which eventually lead to backup managers, finally making piracy a reality on the system.

I really doubt that was the truth, despite what they said. It just made em look more honest.

 

[Monas]

I am all against removing features but lets be honest, Other OS was pretty much useless anyway. Good riddance.

I strongly disagree.
The OtherOS was awfully implemented -you certainly could not use it as a PC alternative- but it was very interesting for coding hobbyists and linux users like myself, but when it was taken out it was slowly dying anyway.
Nobody wanted to explore the CELL, everybody was looking for a route to the RSX, as if they where going to make their own KZ2 and wanted shad0rz. There was an experiment to use SPEs for 3D rendering in software but the whole thing was left broken and then it was put to sleep.

I know that somewhere someone has left his PS3 in v. 2.10 with Fedora or YDL making wonders coding in python and this saddens me, but at the same time i understand SONY's decision to protect their product from irresponsible people.

Maybe next time...

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Ugh sad people are applauding this. This is what a generation of "System Warz WarriorZ!" turns into I guess.

 

[tranciful]

Some of you are just delusional. Geohotz hacks through the hypervisor using OtherOS and you claim OtherOS had nothing to do with security holes. Others admit to the obvious fact that OtherOS was a vulnerability, but claim (without any real knowledge to back it up) that Sony could have without a doubt simply patched it to fix it. Some of you act almost as if you think Sony put OtherOS support in there just so they could steal it away later while laughing maniacally.

Fact is, no company is going to support features like this in the future if you have this silly "even if it might ruin the product and cost you billions, you still have to support it forever!" mentality. Why would they take that risk? Why would they knowingly put themselves into a position where they can't even defend themselves? You're asking for them to put themselves in a very dangerous position, and for what? They don't gain much from allowing OtherOS, but you're asking them to take almost unlimited risk in doing so. From now on, they'll just say "fuck it, we'll play it safe and go with a closed system -- nobody can complain or sue us because they never had anything to begin with."

If you want more open platforms, you have to make it more attractive to these companies. This backlash, these policies many of you adopt, are counter-productive. From now on, they'll look at what happened here and think "why would we want to risk putting ourselves through that? No way!"

Lol? That's what defines a platform as open to you? A few common format accessories here and there? I guess Wii is an open platform too because I can use any simple USB keyboard and any SD/SDHC card rather than proprietary hardware. PSN has conditions like any service, if some like its terms better doesn't make it "more open".

...maybe you should look up the definition of "more" lol

 

[Tylahedras]

The discs have the update on them. If you haven't update via the internet, you'd be asked to update by inserting the disc. Sony's done that with the PSP since 2004, and the PS3 since 2006.

So it's actually conceivable that no games I buy after X date will allow me to play them unless I update to the new firmware which is on the game disc I bought? An update which removes features and requires (no doubt) that I agree to an end user license agreement? That's bullshit, that's the equivalent of forcing me to sign an EULA to play games on my console, and that's not something I was told when I bought the device, thus false advertising.

You can't purchase something on the pretense that it will do a certain thing and then when you try to do it have the device tell you to sign something you don't want to sign. It's extortion / false advertising.

If it was just an issue of PSN or something which requires constant expense to upkeep forcing EULA makes a certain amount of sense since they expend money continually and there's no guarantee that all games will have PSN access or multiplayer. But when they stop allowing the device to do the basic function it was purchased for without my signature that's a load of crap. If they want to do that you should be asked to sign an EULA at the register with the device / game, which of course will make some people not buy them at all.

 

[Monas]

I will admit, I do find it ironic that Sony's removal of OtherOS is what spurred fail0verflow (according to them) into working so diligently to find a way to re-enable it, which eventually lead to the root keys being discovered, which lead to GeoHot finding and releasing the the ability to run custom firmware, which eventually lead to homebrew, which eventually lead to backup managers, finally making piracy a reality on the system.

It has been documented that the keys where found by a usb-upgrade kit that a Sony representative "forgot" somewhere and it ended up on the "wrong hands".

 

[railGUN]

It has been documented that the keys where found by a usb-upgrade kit that a Sony representative "forgot" somewhere and it ended up on the "wrong hands".

I know, but fail0verflow said their incentive for hacking the system was to put linux back on it. Whether you believe them is entirely up to you, but if you watch the video from the hacker conference, they state quite clearly their intentions.

 

[Monas]

I know, but fail0verflow said their incentive for hacking the system was to put linux back on it. Whether you believe them is entirely up to you, but if you watch the video from the hacker conference, they state quite clearly their intentions.

But if their work was solely for the OtherOS resurrection why where they searching for the blu-ray protection bypass, why didn't they stop at the discovery of the .elf sign keys then?

Signature:
Guybrush Threepwood wanted to be a pirate for the glory and the loot

 

[kamspy]

You think the judges care more about us or Sony?

It's gotta be us, right guys? Right?

 

[Theonik]

that game was released after otherOS was removed though, why would you buy a game if you cant meet the requirements to run it? we're talking about actual updates to the games themselves [games released before the removal or are compatible with otherOS firmware] that would presumably be impassable without psn access [and thus a non-otherOS machine].

games that have firmware requirements past otherOS are fine, just dont buy them.

That kind of defeats the purpose of purchasing a console over a PC though doesn't it? People buy consoles under the expectation of being able to play all future software while they also expect to have all the features they had at launch. PS3 offered a compromise between the open nature of a PC and the benefits of the closed wall of a console. People who bought a PS3 and expected to get both were given the choice between which aspect of the system they cared more about while it is possible that both were factors when buying the system and while personally am not that annoyed by the drop of otherOS in particular think it's a really bad precedent and something that should not be within Sony's power.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I strongly disagree.
The OtherOS was awfully implemented -you certainly could not use it as a PC alternative- but it was very interesting for coding hobbyists and linux users like myself, but when it was taken out it was slowly dying anyway.
Nobody wanted to explore the CELL, everybody was looking for a route to the RSX, as if they where going to make their own KZ2 and wanted shad0rz. There was an experiment to use SPEs for 3D rendering in software but the whole thing was left broken and then it was put to sleep.

I know that somewhere someone has left his PS3 in v. 2.10 with Fedora or YDL making wonders coding in python and this saddens me, but at the same time i understand SONY's decision to protect their product from irresponsible people.

Maybe next time...

Ultimately it was near impossible to do anything worthwhile with Other OS thus rendering the feature pretty much useless. When they removed there were pretty much no activity what so ever and I suspect that majority that were vocal about the removal hadn't even installed Other OS in the first place. Plus you could just choose not to update the firmware which I suspect that biggest hobbyist did anyway. I don't know how much effort Sony had to do to support Other OS (I suspect very little) though.

In the end it was pretty interesting experiment (as was PS2 Linux) but rather useless too.

 

[Pandaman]

That kind of defeats the purpose of purchasing a console over a PC though doesn't it? People buy consoles under the expectation of being able to play all future software while they also expect to have all the features they had at launch. PS3 offered a compromise between the open nature of a PC and the benefits of the closed wall of a console. People who bought a PS3 and expected to get both were given the choice between which aspect of the system they cared more about while it is possible that both were factors when buying the system and while personally am not that annoyed by the drop of otherOS in particular think it's a really bad precedent and something that should not be within Sony's power.

what people expect isn't always what they paid for.

 

[gutter_trash]

does it is state it in owner's manual of launch PS3s?

because I have never seen it

 

[Monas]

To all those who think that their life is a festival of Rights, you have obviously forgot the Roosevelt quote: With freedom comes responsibility

Or as the great Stan Lee said it

 

[iam220]

Some of the per-launch hype was build around the supposed openness of the ps3. The ability to run linux, plug in a keyboard and mouse for games and even have mods. Sony cashed in on that hype and those features turned out to be taken away or never implemented. Poor show sony.

 

[HDgaming42]

Seems to me you aren't paying very close attention.

you want to keep playing your games? you can.
you want to keep connecting to psn? you never had that right.
you want to keep otherOS? you can.

You want to meet the requirements of a game you want to buy? well, you'll have to update now.

Consider the consequences of what you ask for outside of this one instance where you feel entitled. You're asking for sony to either lose control of the network they maintain, remove the requirement for games to need updates or do nothing [no more updates for fear of offending some moron]. all of those solutions are utterly unacceptable.

I'm struggling for some pony-based analogy that would make the argument for keeping what you pay for clear to you, but I'm starting to suspect you would defend corporate rights over those of consumers regardless.

There is a fundamental disconnect between people who feel the ability to play PS3 games means play PS3 games and not only the PS3 games released up until the day you bought your console, and you.

There will be no meeting of the minds. Suairyu was right to bail on this thread...

I'd be curious if you supported Sony putting rootkits on your PC lest they risk losing control of their music delivery service. Any anti-consumer action is justified in the greater scheme of keeping the company profitable?

*shakes head*

*cries for the future*

 

[Monas]

I'm struggling for some pony-based analogy that would make the argument for keeping what you pay for clear to you, but I'm starting to suspect you would defend corporate rights over those of consumers regardless.

There is a fundamental disconnect between people who feel the ability to play PS3 games means play PS3 games and not only the PS3 games released up until the day you bought your console, and you.

There will be no meeting of the minds. Suairyu was right to bail on this thread...

I'd be curious if you supported Sony putting rootkits on your PC lest they risk losing control of their music delivery service. Any anti-consumer action is justified in the greater scheme of keeping the company profitable?

*shakes head*

*cries for the future*

It's not the same. The rootkit scandal was just because it was a potential threat to YOUR security and the hidden installation was "probably" illegal.
On the other hand when you try to install Norton Sec. and already have AVG, what does that pop-up say?

And let me tell you one last thing. This whole mess was made with open-source software. Open-source software is distributed under the GPL. The GPlicense has statements against non-fair use of software. So anybody who is on the side of GNU/Linux -while it's trying to expand to a mainstream audience- must be against this crap of using Linux to hack the hyper-visor.
Therefore Sony had all the right in the world to, sadly, remove the OtherOS since it was not only breaking the NDA for it's product, but the third-party software distributing License that came with it.
So, if Sony would not remove the OtherOS, the open-source and Linux communities would have stopped supporting the PS3, and that already had began even before the OtherOS removal.

Either way the legit user is fucked.

 

[Theonik]

what people expect isn't always what they paid for.

Yes, but in this case wouldn't you consider that these expectations were quite reasonable? I mean OtherOS was a feature Sony touted about the PS3 and being able to play PS3 games is also something that was definitely an advertised feature. Having people decide between the two could potentially be considered misleading, bordering in the realm of false advertising. There are probably people that did pay to have both features.
Edit: And even extending this, say you don't agree that being able to play PS3 games is a touted feature applies to all future games, it should at least apply to all games announced by the time you purchased your console correct?
Either way though I suspect this is not an issue we would reach an agreement on..