Support NeoGAF

[slit]

100%. If you spend your whole life struggling to keep yourself from raping kids I think you're a bad person.



That only works if you think sex with kids and sex with someone of the same sex is an equal act on your morality scale.

...but if they are struggling to keep themselves from raping children successfully then there must be good in them otherwise they would not try to hold themselves back.

 

[timmytheman123]

100%. If you spend your whole life struggling to keep yourself from raping kids I think you're a bad person.



That only works if you think sex with kids and sex with someone of the same sex is an equal act on your morality scale.

I missed the part where all pedophiles had sex with kids. Also the part where they chose to be this way. Also the part where they rejected the magical cure.

 

[MaxSteel]

I agree.

People that might go to a therapist about it are not put on a list. People that download child porn can get in legal trouble because, in the very least, kids forced into that is horrible. I think people getting in trouble for drawing stuff in their home is absurd. Sex offenders are sex offenders. Parents are allowed to be cautious like I said.

What does the Pedophile Defense Force want really? People to be able to publicly admit they are pedophiles? I don't think a non sex offender pedophile vocally working in a school is a good idea. Kids knowing their teacher could be sexually fantasizing as they look at them is mentally counter productive. It's supposed to be a safe constructive environment where the teacher is only thinking about raising their knowledge.

With that said, I see nothing wrong with the OP. If he was a pedophile, what he's doing would be extremely creepy. It's weird now. What 21 year old does that? "Think of how many kids he'd be able to harm?" That's not saying he would it's saying he could act on urges and it'd be more probable if he was a pedophile.

a 21 year old who never got to have a normal childhood because he was a celebrity

 

[JumpJeff84]

100%. If you spend your whole life struggling to keep yourself from raping kids I think you're a bad person.

Well, alright then. Good to know.

 

[mollipen]

If your sickness makes you do /desire to do "bad" things, to me you are a bad person..

Putting the desire to do something with taking the actual action to do it pretty much damns the entire human race, which is a pretty stupid thing to do. I find it impossible to believe that there isn't a SINGLE person in existence who hasn't, at one point or another, had the desire inside of themselves to do something "bad".

If somebody grows up in a racist household, that child can have in them the subconscious belief that people are other races are inferior to them. However, that person, growing up, can also understand that that belief is wrong, and fight against it, even though it exists inside of them due to the circumstances in which they were raised.

But oh... too bad. To you, they're just as bad as the person who goes out and kills people because they have a different skin color. And let's keep going! If you think about wanting to steal things, you're just as bad as somebody who does! If you see a hot girl/guy and, for a moment or more, think about wanting to have sex with them while you're already in a monogamous relationship, you've cheated!

 

[JBaird]

illegal but most likely not immoral - high school senior and high school sophomore? not rare at all.

lol, but your still fucked if you fuck.

 

[timmytheman123]

There is also no Pedophile Defense Force:lol I like others am only pointing out the ridiculous double standards thrown out here.

 

[selig]

Raping children. Worst thing ever.

That has to do with pedophiles...what exactly?

If your sickness makes you do /desire to do "bad" things, to me you are a bad person.

Not their choice, tough luck, I still want absolutely nothing to do with them.

I can absolutely live with that, if ignorant means I get to steer clear of pedophiles.

Lol, do you listen to what you´re saying here? This is about as ignorant as one can be.

I really don't get the conflation. Homosexuals don't desire to irreparably harm others sexually, so why the insistence that pedophilia and homosexuality are somehow related?

Pedophiles desire to irreparably harm others sexually? Where? We´ll never find out about it, but I´m pretty sure that even a "child" is capable of having sex with without going crazy about it. Of course, it´s wrong to have sex with pre-pubescent children, so there´s no excuse to it. Still, being attracted to children is not something you choose to, therefore, labeling pedophiles as bad people per se is just wrong.

But I can't control my disgust of people that want to rape children. Now can I be a good person?

Rape is evil, got it. Now why do you talk about rape in a topic about pedophiles?

Pedophilia is psychological disorder in the same way that homosexuality is biological. No one chooses to be one way or another so by labeling all pedophiles is bad is in my eyes the sames as labeling homosexuals bad.

.

 

[eznark]

I missed the part where all pedophiles had sex with kids. Also the part where they chose to be this way. Also the part where they rejected the magical cure.

I never said they did. I'm saying your analogy only works if you consider the desires to be equal. Personally I don't, so I am lost as to your insistence that homosexuality and raping kids is the same thing.

And as I said previously, it doesn't matter to me if it's a choice or not. Individuals can simply be born/raised into "bad" people.

And sorry selig, I'm not engaging in discussion with you on this topic, because frankly you creep me out.

 

[MaxSteel]

lol, but your still fucked if you fuck.

depends on where - but yes, in some places - and that'a fucked up law

 

[JumpJeff84]

I never said they did. I'm saying your analogy only works if you consider the desires to be equal. Personally I don't, so I am lost as to your insistence that homosexuality and raping kids is the same thing.

And as I said previously, it doesn't matter to me if it's a choice or not. Individuals can simply be born/raised into "bad" people.

And sorry selig, I'm not engaging in discussion with you on this topic, because frankly you creep me out.

I'll quote your tag if you quote mine....

 

[Mystic Theurge]

Individuals can simply be born/raised into "bad" people.

You thing people can be born bad? Really?

 

[eznark]

But oh... too bad. To you, they're just as bad as the person who goes out and kills people because they have a different skin color. And let's keep going! If you think about wanting to steal things, you're just as bad as somebody who does! If you see a hot girl/guy and, for a moment or more, think about wanting to have sex with them while you're already in a monogamous relationship, you've cheated!

I have zero clue where you got this from? I don't think of "bad" as binary. Clearly there are shades and I never claimed otherwise. In fact I have clearly stated multiple times that no one should be legally punished for their thoughts, which clearly implies grades of "badness" as I obviously think there are those who should be punished according to the law.

 

[selig]

And as I said previously, it doesn't matter to me if it's a choice or not. Individuals can simply be born/raised into "bad" people.

And sorry selig, I'm not engaging in discussion with you on this topic, because frankly you creep me out.

Don´t worry, you creep me out, too.

 

[timmytheman123]

I never said they did. I'm saying your analogy only works if you consider the desires to be equal. Personally I don't, so I am lost as to your insistence that homosexuality and raping kids is the same thing.

And as I said previously, it doesn't matter to me if it's a choice or not. Individuals can simply be born/raised into "bad" people.

And sorry selig, I'm not engaging in discussion with you on this topic, because frankly you creep me out.

So if you are saying that not all pedophiles have sex with kids then you are agreeing that pedophiles are not bad? If you cannot see where I was going with my analogy then there is no better way that I can put it. Thank you also for putting words in my mouth by insisting that I said that raping children and homosexuality is the same thing. One is clearly bad while the other is not.

 

[MaxSteel]

You thing people can be born bad? Really?

how else do you explain someone like jeffrey dahmer?

 

[dojokun]

"I can't help it if I imagine what they would look like, soapy and wet."

 

[Vinci]

I think the issue of equating pedophiles to homosexuals is more interesting than a semantical argument over what qualifies as 'bad.' Beyond the congenital nature of each, I find it impossible to imagine how people are seemingly dumbstruck by others not finding the two equivalent.

 

[eznark]

So if you are saying that not all pedophiles have sex with kids then you are agreeing that pedophiles are not bad? If you cannot see where I was going with my analogy then there is no better way that I can put it. Thank you also for putting words in my mouth by insisting that I said that raping children and homosexuality is the same thing. One is clearly bad while the other is not.

Wanting to have sex with kids is bad. Having sex with kids is worse. Wanting to have sex with an individual of the same sex is fine. Having consensual sex with an individual of the same sex is fine. I don't see the relation you are forcing.

how else do you explain someone like jeffrey dahmer?

Pretty much the case I was thinking about. That and the yearly "8 year old tortures and kills friend" story.

 

[slit]

It's just odd that people label others as "bad" or "evil" because of the thoughts that enter their head, because, if that's the defining truth, then we are all bad people. I don't care who you are, there are times where everyone has had evil thoughts in their head.

 

[JumpJeff84]

how else do you explain someone like jeffrey dahmer?

Yeah, Dahmer was born bad to be sure. Even he himself said his childhood was okay for the most part. His Dad did admit to having murderous fantasies as well. Thing is, his Dad didn't act on them. Jeffrey was no doubt very bad, and born that way. And he acted upon it. That's the difference.

 

[selig]

Wanting to have sex with kids is bad.

Wanting to kill someone you hate is even worse. Yet, almost all of us think something along these lines at certain moments in their lifes. Be it because of an asshole-boss at your work place, an unfair teacher at school or simply some bully. But that´s it: We think it, the end. We´re not bad people because of that. We´re people. We want things that we know are wrong and that we will never ever do for real.

 

[timmytheman123]

Wanting to have sex with kids is bad. Having sex with kids is worse. Wanting to have sex with an individual of the same sex is fine. Having consensual sex with an individual of the same sex is fine. I don't see the relation you are forcing.


Pretty much the case I was thinking about. That and the yearly "8 year old tortures and kills friend" story.

Really? Even if one can not control their thoughts or desires? I agree that having sex with children is terrible. Yes I agree with your next statement. What the fuck I am not forcing in relation it was a damn analogy. Let me break it down... Homosexuality=no choice...Pedophile=no choice. Now labeling pedophiles bad ok? Labeling homosexuals bad also ok? It is a double standard

 

[JumpJeff84]

It's just odd that people label others as "bad" or "evil" because of the thoughts that enter their head, because, if that's the defining truth, then we are all bad people. I don't care who you are, there are times where everyone has had evil thoughts in their head.

Not me, I'm pretty much a paragon of virtue. I never have impure thoughts of any sort....sorry to break it to you.

 

[JBaird]

You thing people can be born bad? Really?

Just because the individual hasn't done anything yet doesn't mean that the brain he/she was born with isn't the cause of the said future incident.

 

[slit]

Not me, I'm pretty much a paragon of virtue. I never have impure thoughts of any sort....sorry to break it to you.

 

[eznark]

It's just odd that people label others as "bad" or "evil" because of the thoughts that enter their head, because, if that's the defining truth, then we are all bad people. I don't care who you are, there are times where everyone has had evil thoughts in their head.

Sure, but for a pedophile (or at least in my definition) the thought isn't fleeting or rare. I imagine a pedophile thinks about sex as often as anyone else, which means constantly.

And yeah, Dahmer had an absolutely normal childhood, great family. For some reason he liked to kill animals, then people. To my knowledge (being from Milwaukee I have some interest in the case) even the most cracked of quacks can't find a way to shift the blame off of Dahmer and onto his environment.

 

[slit]

Sure, but for a pedophile (or at least in my definition) the thought isn't fleeting or rare. I imagine a pedophile thinks about sex as often as anyone else, which means constantly.

And yeah, Dahmer had an absolutely normal childhood, great family. For some reason he liked to kill animals, then people. To my knowledge (being from Milwaukee I have some interest in the case) even the most cracked of quacks can't find a way to shift the blame off of Dahmer and onto his environment.

No he didn't his father was very overbearing. He was interviewed one time and said his son was sick because of his homosexuality and thats what caused his killing spree.

I don't understand your reasoning, are you saying the frequency of the evil thoughts are what makes you bad because that makes no sense. People with OCD have bad and disturbing thoughts that constantly cycle though their head because of a biological condition. Are they bad people because they have evil thoughts all the time too?

 

[mollipen]

I have zero clue where you got this from? I don't think of "bad" as binary. Clearly there are shades and I never claimed otherwise. In fact I have clearly stated multiple times that no one should be legally punished for their thoughts, which clearly implies grades of "badness" as I obviously think there are those who should be punished according to the law.

The understand I've gotten from your arguments presented here is that people who have sexual attraction to children - no matter if they act upon those desires or not, or if they even want those desires or not - are "bad" people.

If you would say "yes" to that statement, then my argument stands, because that statement makes the point that the desire to do something and acting on that desire are not far apart, when in fact they are worlds apart.

 

[levious]

If the mods have some running joke about allowing people to compare the desires of a peodophile with those of a homosexual, the humor is unfortunately lost on most of us...

 

[timmytheman123]

If the mods have some running joke about allowing people to compare the desires of a peodophile with those of a homosexual, the humor is unfortunately lost on most of us...

The only comparison being made is that neither is controllable.

 

[levious]

The only comparison being made is that neither is controllable.

If it's a mental disorder, compare it with others, not a sexual orientation.

 

[Gilgamesh]

What's the state of the world when a celebrity can't drive around in an ice cream truck without someone accusing them of pedophilia?

 

[timmytheman123]

If it's a mental disorder, compare it with others, not a sexual orientation.

Holy shit it was an analogy. I have already told why I made the analogy to point out the double standards made against an uncontrollable disorder. Nowhere did I compare the two otherwise and I am not going to discuss this anymore.

 

[Medalion]

What's the state of the world when a celebrity can't drive around in an ice cream truck without someone accusing them of pedophilia?

A normal world...amirite guys?

 

[Jarate]

This thread reminds me of this article

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-has-nakedlady-fetish,498/

 

[Chemo]

Paul Reubens, I loved the Pee-Wee character when I was a kid, however, after his arrest in 2002 I don't know, he's definitely a candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Reubens#Pornography_arrest:_2002

God, people are still misconstruing this shit?

Come the fuck on. Paul Reubens is not a pedophile.

 

[levious]

Holy shit it was an analogy. I have already told why I made the analogy to point out the double standards made against an uncontrollable disorder. Nowhere did I compare the two otherwise and I am not going to discuss this anymore.

It's a horrible analogy (unless you try to argue that both are disorders), I'm glad you're done...

 

[slit]

God, people are still misconstruing this shit?

Come the fuck on. Paul Reubens is not a pedophile.

I didn't say he was, I only said there was a case to be made that he could be. BTW, how do you know he's not, you don't know what his personal life is like.

 

[CDProp]

I would prefer it if Jeffrey Jones (Rooney from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Emperor Joseph from Amadeus) were not a pedophile. Turns out, he probably is.

 

[eznark]

No he didn't his father was very overbearing. He was interviewed one time and said his son was sick because of his homosexuality and thats what caused his killing spree.

I don't understand your reasoning, are you saying the frequency of the evil thoughts are what makes you bad because that makes no sense. People with OCD have bad and disturbing thoughts that constantly cycle though their head because of a biological condition. Are they bad people because they have evil thoughts all the time too?

Yeah, probably. If you're constantly dwelling on murder I want nothing to do with you.

This is a circle jerk of a discussion. I'm not trying to convince anyone that I am right and if being disgusted by pedophiles is ignorant I embrace the ignorance.

 

[timmytheman123]

It's a horrible analogy (unless you try to argue that both are disorders), I'm glad you're done...

I am sorry that you cannot interpret what I was trying to say when I said "No one chooses to be one way or another so by labeling all pedophiles is bad is in my eyes the sames as labeling homosexuals bad." It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

 

[Medalion]

Embracing ignorance as a way to defend your points is smart.

 

[slit]

Yeah, probably. If you're constantly dwelling on murder I want nothing to do with you.

This is a circle jerk of a discussion. I'm not trying to convince anyone that I am right and if being disgusted by pedophiles is ignorant I embrace the ignorance.

Okay, fine but bad thoughts are not just defined by pedophilia and murder.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I clicked. And saw a serious topic. I left disappointed.

 

[JumpJeff84]

I would prefer it if Jeffrey Jones (Rooney from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Emperor Joseph from Amadeus) were not a pedophile. Turns out, he probably is.

Don't forget Deadwood.

 

[levious]

I am sorry that you cannot interpret what I was trying to say when I said "No one chooses to be one way or another so by labeling all pedophiles is bad is in my eyes the sames as labeling homosexuals bad." It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Why homosexuality then? Why not compare it to uncontrollable heterosexual desires? Or why not compare it to another actual disorder.

Comparing a desire to have sex with someone of the same sex with the desire to rape a child is ridiculous... And I'm not even arguing in favor of demonizing thoughts.

 

[dinazimmerman]

I hate discussions that aren't propelled by scientific research (or careful, well-reasoned introspection), so I'm going to provide some links/quotes.

A well-sourced powerpoint presentation about pedophilia: http://b4uact.org/MythsAndFacts.ppt

A paper titled Is pedophilia a mental disorder? located here provides these interesting bits of information:

Among the Etoro of New Guinea, from about age 10 years, boys would have regular oral sex with older men, swallowing their semen to facilitate growth lol) (Bauserman, 1997). Among the neighboring Kaluli, when a boy reached age 10 or 11, his father would select a man to inseminate him for a period of months to years. In addition, ceremonial hunting lodges would be organized where boys could voluntarily form relationships with men who would have sexual relations with them (Bauserman, 1997).

I will make one obligatory reference to nonhuman primates. Observations concern a near relative of Man, the bonobo, where these "pigmy chimps" are allowed free access to any other bonobo for sexual contact at the San Diego Zoo. Nonfertile combinations (same-sex or juvenile-adult combinations) were as frequent as potentially fertile, adult male-female combinations. Further, one third of sociosexual contacts by an adult with an infant were initiated by the infant (De Waal, 1990).

 

[Dali]

Wow. When the thread was first created I glanced at the first page and now that it's 4 pages (the way it's meant to be viewed) I clicked view last and was caught off guard by what happened here. This didn't go as I had envisioned. No pictures of that guy from Blues Clues? No Emmanuel Lewis? An argument about genes and choice and badness? :|

 

[Locke]

Here is one thing I don't understand. When you say it is not "wrong" to be a pedophile as you don't act on your sexual preference, do you consider viewing underage pornography to be "acting?"

How about checking out kids on the street or in public? You wouldn't think it was weird for someone who was homosexual to maybe stare or leer at someone they found attractive, but I'm fairly sure if you had a child in public and someone was staring at them, you would find it pretty disgusting.

Basically what i am saying, is that in this fantasy world you have created, it is ok to be a pedophile as long as literally the only way you act out any sexual preferences is via thoughts, because basically every other action that human beings do as sexual beings is either against the law, or very close to it.