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[selig]

Being sexually attracted to adult members of the same sex is a legitimate preference.

Being sexually attracted to children is a psychological disorder.

Trying to associate the two as equal is paramount to defending pedophilia, which is not only disturbing, but hilariously moronic.

Being sexually attracted to children is a disorder ONLY because of the artificial rules of our society, though. Go back in time, or just look at other countries in the world, and sex with "children" won´t be anything outragous. Most popular example being the ancient Greeks.

I really find it hilarous that OF ALL PLACES, gaffers seem to a double standard where pedophiles´ sexuality is an "illness", while other sexualities are not. It´s an unfortunate sexual orientation, but it still is one. Even if you dont like it. And hating on those already unfortunate people is the epitome of evil behavior.

I'm not sure how you got that.

Any form of child sex is rape. That was his point.

The guy said that a pedophile was more dangerous because he had to supress his sex drive for a long time. If that results in rape, anyone who doesnt have sex in a while is a potential rapist. Which is a ridiculous thing to say. Hence Pandaman´s posting.

 

[plagiarize]

Being sexually attracted to children is a disorder ONLY because of the artificial rules of our society, though. Go back in time, or just look at other countries in the world, and sex with "children" won´t be anything outragous. Most popular example being the ancient Greeks.

I really find it hilarous that OF ALL PLACES, gaffers seem to a double standard where pedophiles´ sexuality is an "illness", while other sexualities are not. It´s an unfortunate sexual orientation, but it still is one. Even if you dont like it. And hating on those already unfortunate people is the epitome of evil behavior.

we know better than the greeks that even 8 year old children that 'consent' to sex suffer long term damage from it.

you're really starting to show your true colours here now that you're suggesting that sex with children should be fine and it's only 'artificial rules' in our society preventing the poor downtrodden paedophiles from being able to sleep with prepubescents.

The guy said that a pedophile was more dangerous because he had to supress his sex drive for a long time. If that results in rape, anyone who doesnt have sex in a while is a potential rapist. Which is a ridiculous thing to say. Hence Pandaman´s posting.

it isn't a ridiculous thing to say.

the analogy is incorrect. the straight person wants to have sex. the paedophile wants to molest children. if someone has rape fantasies and tries to surpress them, AND has oppurtunity to carry them out... then THAT would be analogous.

going a long time without sex will likely make a straight person have sex with someone they wouldn't have other wise. it won't make them suddenly want to rape someone.

paedophiles by definition WANT to rape children, even if they know it's wrong and never actually would go through with it.

straight people do not want to rape people. they are not suppressing the desire to rape anything. if they go a long time without sex it will make them want sex more and more. it won't make them want to rape people all of a sudden.

paedophiles are surpressing the desire to rape children. they are not analogous.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Being sexually attracted to children is a disorder ONLY because of the artificial rules of our society, though. Go back in time, or just look at other countries in the world, and sex with "children" won´t be anything outragous. Most popular example being the ancient Greeks.

I really find it hilarous that OF ALL PLACES, gaffers seem to a double standard where pedophiles´ sexuality is an "illness", while other sexualities are not. It´s an unfortunate sexual orientation, but it still is one. Even if you dont like it. And hating on those already unfortunate people is the epitome of evil behavior.

Dude I've been over this. It's an illness because it has a near 100% connection to childhood sexual abuse. You don't wake up one day interested in prepubescent children.

It takes years of abuse for that to become a norm. I don't care where you are in the world. And there is a difference between a 13 year old and an 8 year old. At least one of the two has begun the sexual maturation process.

I won't defend archaic laws around the world that deem a 13 year old legal, but at least they've begun to sexually mature.

The guy said that a pedophile was more dangerous because he had to supress his sex drive for a long time. If that results in rape, anyone who doesnt have sex in a while is a potential rapist. Which is a ridiculous thing to say. Hence Pandaman´s posting.

No... he didn't.

He was literally saying there's no way for a pedophile to satiate those lusts without raping a child.

 

[plagiarize]

Dude I've been over this. It's an illness because it has a near 100% connection to childhood sexual abuse. You don't wake up one day interested in prepubescent children.

It takes years of abuse for that to become a norm. I don't care where you are in the world. And there is a difference between a 13 year old and an 8 year old. At least one of the two has begun the sexual maturation process.

I won't defend archaic laws around the world that deem a 13 year old legal, but at least they've begun to sexually mature.


No... he didn't.

He was literally saying there's no way for a pedophile to satiate those lusts without raping a child.

we are the epitomy of evil, unlike those poor harmless paedophiles who we dare to say have a psychological disorder.

shame on us.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

we are the epitomy of evil, unlike those poor harmless paedophiles who we dare to say have a psychological disorder.

shame on us.

I actually feel sorry for them to a degree.

The people that took their control away from them as children, still have control over them now.

It'd be sad if they weren't destroying lives in response.

 

[Ulairi]

Being sexually attracted to children is a disorder ONLY because of the artificial rules of our society, though. Go back in time, or just look at other countries in the world, and sex with "children" won´t be anything outragous. Most popular example being the ancient Greeks.

I really find it hilarous that OF ALL PLACES, gaffers seem to a double standard where pedophiles´ sexuality is an "illness", while other sexualities are not. It´s an unfortunate sexual orientation, but it still is one. Even if you dont like it. And hating on those already unfortunate people is the epitome of evil behavior.



The guy said that a pedophile was more dangerous because he had to supress his sex drive for a long time. If that results in rape, anyone who doesnt have sex in a while is a potential rapist. Which is a ridiculous thing to say. Hence Pandaman´s posting.

No. The person who wants to have sex with a child is the epitome of evil. Is there anything some teenage or college age gaffer won't defend?

 

[plagiarize]

selig, you do know that paedophilia is officially considered a mental illness by mental health professionals, and that homosexuality isn't right? you do realise that it isn't just some wacky opinion that GAF holds?

 

[BertramCooper]

Selig better be getting one helluva tag out of this.

Perhaps that's been his goal all along.

 

[selig]

Selig better be getting one helluva tag out of this.

Perhaps that's been his goal all along.

Yeah, I´m trying to defend pedophiles against people´s hate speeches for a silly tag. Yeah, right, it´s not like I actually have an opinion.

:/

 

[Alucrid]

Well, but see, they are people that dont have a chance with women, be it because they´re shy, fat, ugly, whatever. You could say that all these people are a danger to the women around them. But do they act on their urges? You can bet that the vast majority does not.

Also, the topic about being able to give consent is a whole different one. Of course, if we´re talking about 10 and below, I agree with you.



Well, that´s why I think it´s good to have those crazy Japanese hentai-games. There should be no limit to our fantasy, which is why such games shouldnt be banned. And if they can help someone, all the better.

:\

 

[BertramCooper]

Yeah, I´m trying to defend pedophiles against people´s hate speeches for a silly tag. Yeah, right, it´s not like I actually have an opinion.

:/

I can't think of any other logical reason why you're so staunchly defending kiddie fiddlers.

 

[Earl Cazone]

ignore that guy already.

 

[Alucrid]

I can't think of any other logical reason why you're so staunchly defending kiddie fiddlers.

Closet pedophile?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yeah, I´m trying to defend pedophiles against people´s hate speeches for a silly tag. Yeah, right, it´s not like I actually have an opinion.

:/

It's a flawed opinion because you're acting like it's a naturally occurring thing. Homosexuality you find in nature, you don't find sexual attraction to the sexually immature in any species but humans.

It is a man made sexual disorder. It continues because a portion of the abused become abusers themselves. It's a disgusting depraved cycle that won't end.

 

[dinazimmerman]

It's a flawed opinion because you're acting like it's a naturally occurring thing. Homosexuality you find in nature, you don't find sexual attraction to the sexually immature in any species but humans.

This is not true. You'll find adult Bonobos frequently engage in nonfertile sexual behavior with infants (they also engage in nonfertile same-sex behavior with adults). There's also a 1 in 3 chance that the sexual contacts are initiated by the infants.

Also, there is a sizeable literature out there discussing the biological dimensions of pedophilia if you're interested in finding out more.

Last, if you go to Wikipedia, there will be a lot of talk about the DSM classification of pedophilia as a mental disorder. But there are many psychiatrists that contest this classifcation. For example, http://www.taasa.org/library/pdfs/TAASALibrary85.pdf

EDIT: my opinion on the issue,

Homosexual sex is fine because it is consensual and it doesn't harm anyone. If adult-child sex is ever consensual and harmless for both parties, then it would be fine, as well. But 9 out of 10 times, this isn't the case. Since hard cases make bad law, pedophilia should be legally prohibited. It's that simple.

 

[Shouta]

Closet pedophile?

You know, might want to read his arguments and why he's saying what he is before being a dingbat.

 

[plagiarize]

Last, if you go to Wikipedia, there will be a lot of talk about the DSM classification of pedophilia as a mental disorder. But there are many psychiatrists that contest this classifcation. For example, http://www.taasa.org/library/pdfs/TAASALibrary85.pdf

until it is no longer classed as a mental disorder i will continue to call it a mental disorder.

until we prove that sexual contact for prepubescents is totally safe i will continue to call what paedophiles desire to do child abuse.

that's the key thing. paedophiles want to abuse children. they might not go through with it because they respect it will harm the child... but they want to. they want to do something harmful and they can't make that want go away.

until what they want to do is shown not to be harmful, i will continue to look at it as being different to sexual orientation.

edit: i see your edit and recognise that you probably feel the same way.

 

[dinazimmerman]

until it is no longer classed as a mental disorder i will continue to call it a mental disorder.

until we prove that sexual contact for prepubescents is totally safe i will continue to call what paedophiles desire to do child abuse.

that's the key thing. paedophiles want to abuse children. they might not because they respect it will harm the child... but they want to. they want to do something harmful and they can't make that want go away.

until what they want to do is shown not to be harmful, i will continue to look at it as being different to sexual orientation.

edit: i see your edit and recognise that you probably feel the same way.

yes, i'm not entirely convinced that it is a "mental disorder," though. but as you realize, that's really beside the point, because adult-child sex more often than not harms the child. even if the adult is biologically inclined to lust for children and can't help it, that doesn't mean we should allow him to harm children.

i think all the confusion stems from the belief that if a person is biologically inclined to do something, we can't judge that person for doing it. that's just wrong. if I am born a sociopath, it would still be immoral and illegal for me to murder another person, and I should be punished for doing so, regardless of what my ultimate motivations are.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

This is not true. You'll find adult Bonobos frequently engage in nonfertile sexual behavior with infants (they also engage in nonfertile same-sex behavior with adults). There's also a 1 in 3 chance that the sexual contacts are initiated by the infants.

Also, there is a sizeable literature out there discussing the biological dimensions of pedophilia if you're interested in finding out more.

Last, if you go to Wikipedia, there will be a lot of talk about the DSM classification of pedophilia as a mental disorder. But there are many psychiatrists that contest this classifcation. For example, http://www.taasa.org/library/pdfs/TAASALibrary85.pdf

EDIT: my opinion on the issue,

Homosexual sex is fine because it is consensual and it doesn't harm anyone. If adult-child sex is ever consensual and harmless for both parties, then it would be fine, as well. But 9 out of 10 times, this isn't the case. Since hard cases make bad law, pedophilia should be legally prohibited. It's that simple.

I didn't know that about bonobos.

Then I rescind that portion of the argument, it does happen in nature, but it's a rarity, and humans should have the presence of mind to not do the same.

Also, I tend to right off most psychiatrists that portray pedophilia as a biological issue, since it's extremely rare for childhood sexual abuse to be missing in the persons history. Most don't even remember the abuse, don't even realize why they have the attraction in the first place. Why it seems like a norm.

I'm with selig in only one way. The implication that pedophiles will be abusers. That there's no way around it. There is, but few have the willpower. Completely abstain from physical sexual contact.

Don't allow yourself to be conditioned further by masturbating while thinking of children. Sexual release is a huge motivator and will keep you trapped in a cycle that only will end in pain. I'm not saying don't masturbate. Just turn the little boy in your dreams into a teenager.

Still not socially acceptable, but much closer.

 

[Alucrid]

You know, might want to read his arguments and why he's saying what he is before being a dingbat.

I did and I wasn't particularity swayed by them. While having sexual urges towards prepubescents may not necessarily make you a bad person, that urge you have is still bad, regardless on whether you act on it or not. Then comparing it to both racism and homophobia and accusing people who see pedophilia as a problem as being ignorant? More important is his definition of the age where pedophilia ends and hebophilia begins. I believe he said anything age 10 and below is what he considers 'bad', which is pretty much where the transition begins.

 

[dinazimmerman]

I did and I wasn't particularity swayed by them. While having sexual urges towards prepubescents may not necessarily make you a bad person, that urge you have is still bad, regardless on whether you act on it or not. Then comparing it to both racism and homophobia and accusing people who see pedophilia as a problem as being ignorant? More important is his definition of the age where pedophilia ends and hebophilia begins. I believe he said anything age 10 and below is what he considers 'bad', which is pretty much where the transition begins.

Why are the urges bad? Do you mean they are morally "bad?" I don't think anyone would say acting on those urges isn't bad, but what criteria do you use to determine whether or not an urge is "bad?"

 

[Alucrid]

Why are the urges bad? Do you mean they are morally "bad?" I don't think anyone would say acting on those urges isn't bad, but what criteria do you use to determine whether or not an urge is "bad?"

Yes, morally bad, or at least how our society views it, which is largely what keeps people with unfavorable urges in check.

 

[Always-honest]

pretty hard topic to discuss in a rational way.

 

[plagiarize]

More important is his definition of the age where pedophilia ends and hebophilia begins. I believe he said anything age 10 and below is what he considers 'bad', which is pretty much where the transition begins.

paedophilia is the desire to have sex with pre-pubescent children. paedophiles want to have sex with children, not pubescent children or later. the boundary is pretty well defined already as the onset of puberty.

if you just want to have sex with pubescents, that isn't healthy either because physically ready isn't the same as mentally ready and while pubescents CAN be mentally ready, the physical signs of maturation aren't a good standard.

that's why we pick an arbitrary age that's a 'safe bet', as in most people this age and older will be mentally and physically ready. any other standard is impossible to enforce. even then that will be too soon for some people and could lead to negative repercussions for them.

does it make you a paedophile or a hebophile for finding a 15 year old girl who is very physically mature attractive? of course not... but if you absolutely can't wait for that girl to reach legal age, then yeah, you probably have a problem.

conversely, if you're attracted to a girl who has just reached legal age, but who physically speaking looks pre pubescent, you probably have problems, even if you aren't breaking any laws to indulge.

 

[Alucrid]

paedophilia is the desire to have sex with pre-pubescent children. paedophiles want to have sex with children, not pubescent children or later. the boundary is pretty well defined already as the onset of puberty.

if you just want to have sex with pubescents, that isn't healthy either because physically ready isn't the same as mentally ready and while pubescents CAN be mentally ready, the physical signs of maturation aren't a good standard.

that's why we pick an arbitrary age that's a 'safe bet', as in most people this age and older will be mentally and physically ready. any other standard is impossible to enforce. even then that will be too soon for some people and could lead to negative repercussions for them.

does it make you a paedophile or a hebophile for finding a 15 year old girl who is very physically mature attractive? of course not... but if you absolutely can't wait for that girl to reach legal age, then yeah, you probably have a problem.

Why are you arguing with me? Clearly I'm against both of them, I just cited that as an example for his usage of the term pedophilia.

 

[plagiarize]

Why are you arguing with me? Clearly I'm against both of them, I just cited that as an example for his usage of the term pedophilia.

i'm not arguing with you. i'm saying HIS standard for the boundary is unimportant when there is a clearly defined one already.

 

[Neo C.]

Yeah well if you don't 'define' 70% of the child molesters as pedo's than the scientific research about 'most pedophiles never harm children' is also pretty useless.

Even if you count them in, the thesis 'most pedophiles never harm children' is still valid, because the amount of child molesting cases is still much smaller than the estimated amount of pedophiles.

 

[plagiarize]

Even if you count them in, the thesis 'most pedophiles never harm children' is still valid, because the amount of child molesting cases is still much smaller than the estimated amount of pedophiles.

if we blindly allowed paedophiles to work in close proximity to children do you think molestation cases would stay the same or go up?

hasn't it been proven that in many cases crimes are committed by people that wouldn't have otherwise done them simply because the oppurtunity arose.

again, whether the majority of paedophiles molest children or not, that doesn't make letting them be a kindergarten teacher or whatever a good thing for them or for children.

they all want to molest children. keep them away from the temptation for the childrens' sakes, and for their own sake.

 

[Neo C.]

if we blindly allowed paedophiles to work in close proximity to children do you think molestation cases would stay the same or go up?

Dude, it's pretty well-known that a relatively high percentage of paedophiles have jobs related to children. Though they can't openly admit their (sexual) preference, because the society wouldn't allow them to do these jobs.

And yet most of them never harm children.

 

[plagiarize]

Dude, it's pretty well-known that a relatively high percentage of paedophiles have jobs related to children. Though they can't openly admit their (sexual) preference, because the society wouldn't allow them to do these jobs.

And yet most of them never harm children.

you still haven't answered my question.

you can answer either of these questions as they are essentially the same.

1. Do you think there would be LESS child abuse if paedophiles could be prevented from working with children.

2. Do you think if all paedophiles worked with children that there would more child abuse?

do you think it is a BAD thing to keep someone away from temptation?

 

[Neo C.]

you still haven't answered my question.

you can answer either of these questions as they are essentially the same.

1. Do you think there would be LESS child abuse if paedophiles could be prevented from working with children.

2. Do you think if all paedophiles worked with children that there would more child abuse?

do you think it is a BAD thing to keep someone away from temptation?

I'm not a psychologist, therefore I'm not sure if keeping them away physically helps them or makes things even worse. As far as I know, some experts offer them pills to fight against the temptation.

As a social scientist, I think it's pretty impossible to keep them away from working with children, therefore it isn't possible to answer your questions. I would go even further: Even if there's way to detect paedophiles and prevent them from working with children, it could be possible that we wouldn't have less child abuse, because a lot of child abuse cases aren't sexually motivated.

I know, the world is pretty complicated.

 

[Shouta]

I did and I wasn't particularity swayed by them. While having sexual urges towards prepubescents may not necessarily make you a bad person, that urge you have is still bad, regardless on whether you act on it or not. Then comparing it to both racism and homophobia and accusing people who see pedophilia as a problem as being ignorant? More important is his definition of the age where pedophilia ends and hebophilia begins. I believe he said anything age 10 and below is what he considers 'bad', which is pretty much where the transition begins.

Whether or not you agree with him, it makes you look like a huge ass by even joking he's a pedophile especially considering how wrong you view it as and how grave the actual accusation can be.