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Chomsky: Nov 8 is possibly most important date in history; GOP historically dangerous

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Joe

Member
"...the Republican Party, which has become the most dangerous organization in world history."

Trump in the White House: An Interview With Noam Chomsky

I think it is important to spend a few moments pondering just what happened on November 8, a date that might turn out to be one of the most important in human history, depending on how we react.

No exaggeration.

The most important news of November 8 was barely noted, a fact of some significance in itself.

On Nov. 8, the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) delivered a report at the international conference on climate change in Morocco (COP22) which was called in order to carry forward the Paris agreement of COP21. The WMO reported that the past five years were the hottest on record. It reported rising sea levels, soon to increase as a result of the unexpectedly rapid melting of polar ice, most ominously the huge Antarctic glaciers. Already, Arctic sea ice over the past five years is 28 percent below the average of the previous 29 years, not only raising sea levels, but also reducing the cooling effect of polar ice reflection of solar rays, thereby accelerating the grim effects of global warming. The WMO reported further that temperatures are approaching dangerously close to the goal established by COP21, along with other dire reports and forecasts.

Another event took place on November 8, which also may turn out to be of unusual historical significance for reasons that, once again, were barely noted.

On November 8, the most powerful country in world history, which will set its stamp on what comes next, had an election. The outcome placed total control of the government—executive, Congress, the Supreme Court—in the hands of the Republican Party, which has become the most dangerous organization in world history.

Apart from the last phrase, all of this is uncontroversial. The last phrase may seem outlandish, even outrageous. But is it? The facts suggest otherwise. The Party is dedicated to racing as rapidly as possible to destruction of organized human life. There is no historical precedent for such a stand.

Is this an exaggeration? Consider what we have just been witnessing.

During the Republican primaries, every candidate denied that what is happening is happening—with the exception of the sensible moderates, like Jeb Bush, who said it’s all uncertain, but we don’t have to do anything because we’re producing more natural gas, thanks to fracking. Or John Kasich, who agreed that global warming is taking place, but added that “we are going to burn [coal] in Ohio and we are not going to apologize for it.”

The winning candidate, now the president-elect, calls for rapid increase in use of fossil fuels, including coal; dismantling of regulations; rejection of help to developing countries that are seeking to move to sustainable energy; and in general, racing to the cliff as fast as possible.

Trump has already taken steps to dismantle the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) by placing in charge of the EPA transition a notorious (and proud) climate change denier, Myron Ebell. Trump’s top adviser on energy, billionaire oil executive Harold Hamm, announced his expectations, which were predictable: dismantling regulations, tax cuts for the industry (and the wealthy and corporate sector generally), more fossil fuel production, lifting Obama’s temporary block on the Dakota Access pipeline. The market reacted quickly. Shares in energy corporations boomed, including the world’s largest coal miner, Peabody Energy, which had filed for bankruptcy, but after Trump’s victory, registered a 50 percent gain.

The effects of Republican denialism had already been felt. There had been hopes that the COP21 Paris agreement would lead to a verifiable treaty, but any such thoughts were abandoned because the Republican Congress would not accept any binding commitments, so what emerged was a voluntary agreement, evidently much weaker.

Effects may soon become even more vividly apparent than they already are. In Bangladesh alone, tens of millions are expected to have to flee from low-lying plains in coming years because of sea level rise and more severe weather, creating a migrant crisis that will make today’s pale in significance. With considerable justice, Bangladesh’s leading climate scientist says that “These migrants should have the right to move to the countries from which all these greenhouse gases are coming. Millions should be able to go to the United States.” And to the other rich countries that have grown wealthy while bringing about a new geological era, the Anthropocene, marked by radical human transformation of the environment. These catastrophic consequences can only increase, not just in Bangladesh, but in all of South Asia as temperatures, already intolerable for the poor, inexorably rise and the Himalayan glaciers melt, threatening the entire water supply. Already in India, some 300 million people are reported to lack adequate drinking water. And the effects will reach far beyond.

It is hard to find words to capture the fact that humans are facing the most important question in their history—whether organized human life will survive in anything like the form we know—and are answering it by accelerating the race to disaster.

Similar observations hold for the other huge issue concerning human survival: the threat of nuclear destruction, which has been looming over our heads for 70 years and is now increasing.
 

Deku Tree

Member
I read that article yesterday. Environmental issues are very scary. Chomsky always makes very good points even though I don't always agree with him.

This would have been my title if I made this topic:

Chomsky: "Republican Party has become the most dangerous organization in world history."
 

Kayhan

Member
The Party is dedicated to racing as rapidly as possible to destruction of organized human life.

I get that we are upset but come on.

flS7xgG.gif
 

kswiston

Member
I dont fully understand why the GOP and many republicans deny climate change.

Acknowledging it means acknowledging that they are purposely fucking over their children, grandchildren, and every other future generation of humanity for short term monetary gains or political seats (backed by lobbyists trying to make money now)
 

Boney

Banned
That's a hell of a ramble to call out republicans on being the terrorist organization that they are.

New Green New Deal needs to be set in place inmediatly or else we're fuxkwd
 

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I get that we are upset but come on.

flS7xgG.gif
How are they not? They ignore proven scientific research and are driven by greed and money.

They happily shit on the lower classes and are accelerating removing safeguards on the environment. Not sure how you'd classify the GOP as anything but proactively destructive to the planet.

Half the US just voted in a guy who's primary interest is his own brand, installed an oil magnate as part of the EPA handover and claims climate change is a Chinese hoax. The sooner people actually acknowledge that these guys are outwardly hostile to anyone's interests but their own, the better.
 

kswiston

Member
And the whole religious aspect.

God wouldn't let mankind ruin the 6000 year old Earth.

I think the God reason is bullshit. They all know people can ruin the earth. It's the entire reason why no one uses nuclear weapons. There are plenty of smaller scale examples as well.
 
Sanction the hell out of US goods if they don't follow the deal. The economic impact is better then letting the earth become even more unlivable for tons of people.

But of course that won't happen. Maybe China can have some influence over the US here.
 

Eusis

Member
Actually that's the Evangelical community. Many other Christian groups believe in being wise stewards of the Earth.

I know the Pope mentioned that it is a problem.
Evangelism is probably the most harmful interpretation of Christianity to catch on, huh?
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Oil and coal industries.

It's very simple.

They then feed it to their diehards via the Conservative news outlets.

Repeat.

That was how it started, but I think many of the elected Republican officials are the people who were told it was fake. They are true believers.
 

Crayon

Member
I get that we are upset but come on.

flS7xgG.gif

What exactly is your issue with the assertion? Practically every action they take in recent history proves to be backwards and destructive.... and now that the environment is at this tipping point they stay true and prepare to do precisely the wrong thing again. Only this time, it's seriously going to fuck everything up.

This climate situation is matched only by the threat of nuclear war and they have their finger on that butting, too. I'd say yes, they seem intent to fuck everything up. Why, I cannot say. What could possibly be worth this extent of damage that will be caused by global warming?
 
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

FNKLN2H.png


The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

zmOfR66.gif


So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.
 
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

FNKLN2H.png


The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

zmOfR66.gif


So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Why should we develop the cure for cancer if Denmark and France have higher cancer rates than we do?
 
Sometimes I think many of the people gaining benefits from all this, are the ones who will be dead within 10-20 years. All the rest of us who will live longer, will have to deal with the mess a few rich greedy men left us.
 

Crayon

Member
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

.
.
.

So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

The republicans do not even acknowledge the problem, tho. Not being the leader is one thing but to have these very powerful people who want to just pretend it's not a problem is insanity.
 

digdug2k

Member
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?
You realize that 1.) The US is number 2 on that list. 2.) That we buys tons of shit from China and that this same party is advocating basically cutting up our trade deals with them (not to force China to be green) 3.) China has shitloads more people than the US does? 4.) Even if China said "Fuck you, we're burning coal all night!" it doesn't mean its ok for us to throw in with 'em.
 

Joe

Member
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?
China has recently committed more intensely to combating climate change than the US ever has, also China has higher CO2 emissions due to population alone. America emits twice as much CO2 per person than China.
 

entremet

Member
Evangelism is probably the most harmful interpretation of Christianity to catch on, huh?
Not quite.

There was a violent period if we look back further haha

Not all Evangelicals groups are negligent as well. That's a broad brush. But the intersection of conservative politics and Reagan era Evangelicals and being anti Science is pretty well documented.
 

Skinpop

Member
I dont fully understand why the GOP and many republicans deny climate change.

internet and social media means that no matter how idiotic or harmful your beliefs are, there are people and communities around that will validate and recognize those ideas. the idea of society being built on shared values is disintegrating with this and so people don't feel like they have to answer to anyone. at least before internet you had to physically seek out like minded people and risk looking like a fool and being admonished socially. i still love the internet but I don't see any solution to this problem, for all the people crying that facebook has responsibility(I detest fb personally) they need to realize that this will only get worse. So basically I think society will get more and more individualized until we barely can communicate with each other anymore.

what we really need is school that puts emphasis on fact checking, scientific method and logical reasoning above EVERYTHING else. People need to get it hammered into their heads that they don't get to contest scientific facts based on fairy tales or their gut feeling unless they go out and get the scientific proof to support their position. good luck with that happening while idiots and ignornants get to vote...
 

AlphaDump

Gold Member
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

FNKLN2H.png


The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

zmOfR66.gif


So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

To set an example as the leading world power? I mean wtf.
 
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

FNKLN2H.png


The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

zmOfR66.gif


So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

I don't see anything you just quoted as a satisfactory enough reason for just saying "meh, China's problem" and being happy with the direction that Trump is heading. Especially since China has very recently publicly been moving in positive directions.
 

olympia

Member
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

In short: Because the US remains the highest consumer of natural gas and oil in the world, and as demonstrated in the Montreal Protocol, when the US takes a lead in treaties implementing strict change, the rest of the world follows and the results are unquestionably favorable. The Kyoto protocol is viewed as being only slightly effective, arguably because the US did not ratify it.

The US also has enormous soft power, and with that should come the responsibility to combat global warming. The mindset of "they're not doing it so why should we" is so ludicrous to me considering the US prides itself on exceptionalism.

The UN Green Climate fund like you mentioned exists as as a helpful stop-gap since climate treaties usually give more flexibility to developing countries so new regulatory measures don't hamstring growth.

You're right, there is no magic bullet but making some semblance of an effort to control emissions would be a good start.
 

Barzul

Member
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

FNKLN2H.png


The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

zmOfR66.gif


So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.
Because we're fucked either way is what it comes down to. Maybe in 50 years when part of Florida is under water. Republicans will finally go Oh shit these guys were right all along. Too bad they'll also be dead and we'll be cleaning up their mess, or we won't, because it'd be too late.
 

SeanTSC

Member
Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

For starters - I want the US to stop denying that Climate Change is real and apologize for purposely misleading the public on the single biggest global issue and national security threat that we face.

Next - I want them to push heavily into renewable energy technology and green practices so that we set an example for the rest of the world to follow and look up to, because we're the "leaders of the free world" and not some fucking Comic Book Super Villain.

It's our responsibility to not be complete douchebags that deny science and put the lives of millions and billions of people in danger purely for short term greed.

The US and China should be working together on this, side by side, to help transition the world into more renewable energy technology.

Plus, I really don't want to be looked down upon by the rest of the world as a bunch of stupid idiots who are okay with destroying the planet and blatantly lie about how serious the issue is. There is no doubt that America will be a dangerous and out of control country that is a threat to the rest of the world if we keep letting Climate Deniers have such an unprecedented level of power.
 

Crayon

Member
In short: Because the US remains the highest consumer of natural gas and oil in the world, and as demonstrated in the Montreal Protocol, when the US takes a lead in treaties implementing strict change, the rest of the world follows and the results are unquestionably favorable. The Kyoto protocol is viewed as being only slightly effective, arguably because the US did not ratify it.

The US also has enormous soft power, and with that should come the responsibility to combat global warming. The mindset of "they're not doing it so why should we" is so ludicrous to me considering the US prides itself on exceptionalism.

I change my answer to this.
 
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