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[ClosingADoor]

Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

All countries need to work on it and that includes America. The US is also a developed nation, so you can't compare it to developing nations that are still growing. The US and EU have enjoyed economic growth with a ton of pollution for decade after decade, so you can't just point the finger at developing countries now. You need to work together and everyone needs to contribute since this is a worldwide issue. Global warming does not stop at a border.

 

[Haly]

I get that we are upset but come on.

He's right though. In the long term, climate change is the single most significant threat to civilization as we know it. There are safeguards against nuclear war (like mutually assured destruction), but currently there are no safeguards against climate change. And the single political party on the planet that is the most staunchly opposed to accepting the reality of man-made climate change is the GOP. Even Russia and China aren't this deluded. Saudi Arabia, whose wealth is minted in oil, can nevertheless see the writing on the wall.

 

[Haly]

Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

Is this a joke?

Just by posting on NeoGAF, driving to work and/or school, and eating food that's shipped to your city from across the country, you're outputting more CO2 than the average person in China, many, MANY of whom are still living in a barely industrial world.

 

[olympia]

Is this a joke?

I did not know that the US had the second-highest emission rates per capita. Jeez. Putting this one in my pocket.

 

[Croatoan]

Because we're fucked either way is what it comes down to. Maybe in 50 years when part of Florida is under water. Republicans will finally go Oh shit these guys were right all along. Too bad they'll also be dead and we'll be cleaning up their mess, or we won't, because it'd be too late.

Look up tech that can reverse climate change. 50 years is a long time to come up with new ideas too.

Legislation will only delay the inevitable.

 

[Anth0ny]

"...the Republican Party, which has become the most dangerous organization in world history."

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The solution is to move out of suburbs and back into cities. Use public transport and walk to local stores. Difficult in the USA. They moved out of cities in the first place because there were too many brown people and like Chomsky says racial segregation is more popular in the US than it was in South Africa.

 

[Foffy]

I get that we are upset but come on.

Bro, you don't know how bad Republicans can get.

We're talking folks in Florida representing people literally replying with "So what?" if parts of Florida become one with the ocean.

People have a right to fear this party. Religion and money give their vision cataracts.

 

[Haly]

I did not know that the US had the second-highest emission rates per capita. Jeez. Putting this one in my pocket.

Australia should be in the top 3 as well, I'm not sure why it isn't on that graph: http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6131/economics/list-of-co2-emissions-per-capita/

 

[Blader]

This was the thing that hit me the most last Tuesday/Wednesday. Trump's election ensured that at the last possible chance for climate action, that could mitigate this to some degree, we're going to completely ignore this and drive right off the fucking cliff.

We're completely fucked. Of course the people behind this don't care, they'll be long dead by the time we get with the full brunt of this, but it's crazy to me that they don't care about how horrible life for their kids and grandkids will be because of their inaction.

Look up tech that can reverse climate change. 50 years is a long time to come up with new ideas too.

Legislation will only delay the inevitable.

Relying on imaginary future tech seems like a poor way to brace for this. Particularly if so much of the country resists in investing in green tech now.

 

[Fugu]

Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

Yes, why should the US tackle climate change when they are #2 to a country that was gripped by a protracted, horrific civil war that was preceded by a period of quasi-colonial rule resulting in a country that was at least several decades behind the west and is only now catching up. A country which, by the way, has four times the population of the US and only double the emissions.

 

[Skinpop]

We're completely fucked. Of course the people behind this don't care, they'll be long dead by the time we get with the full brunt of this, but it's crazy to me that they don't care about how horrible life for their kids and grandkids will be because of their inaction.

it's a setback but it won't stop progress.

 

[finley83]

The world is our house and it's on fire. Democrats argue we should put out the fire and try to repair the damage. By contrast, the GOP don't believe in fire even though it's literally happening all around them right now.

For some people voting GOP is a single issue factor due to abortion. I'd argue voting Democrat is a single issue for people that aren't completely ignorant of basic scientific facts.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Mob rule was a mistake

 

[Dmax3901]

Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

Muuuuuuum! Make HIM do it!

 

[Lime]

That Cheney quote about deficits not mattering is so terrible

Fuck these people every single one of them

 

[Blader]

it's a setback but it won't stop progress.

We've already passed so many points of no return, and turning the tide on this requires a massive change in climate action immediately -- more so than the Paris treaty calls for, and in a much shorter time than it allows for.

I am not hopeful at all for this.

 

[forknknife]

I shared the shit out of this interview yesterday, it's freaking scary but essential for everyone to read.

The article left me wondering, at which point does propagating lies over climate change become a crime?

I think that, in the same way that exaltation of acts of terrorism is a crime, spreading fake information about climate change for personal gain should be it too. There are way way more lifes at stake due to the consequences of CC than any other potential disastrous event we can think of, why not persecute these people too? We cannot wait for decades so the education system makes people understand the obvious, there's just not time and no debate to be had.

Seriously, lately I'm thinking that we are going to get to a point in which we will just not be able to allow for somebody like Trump to govern any country if that means risking reaching the point of no return on climate change. Maybe that's already happened.

People are angry on the streets protesting but it's become violent really fast and probably won't last for much longer. I really think you guys in the US should mobilize, not against Trump being the president, but against his climate policies, you should all focus on this issue. And manifest peacefully but regularly, until there's no other thing to talk about and he's forced to listen and obey his citizens.

Yeah, I'm basically imploring right now but it's just very scary to me. I think we're fucked if we don't do something drastic, right now.

 

[norm9]

Now he tells us. Thanks Noam.

 

[WedgeX]

Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

Develop all the clean & renewable technology, benefit from selling all the carbon credits, and make all the monies selling the developed clean & renewable technology.

Its pretty simple.

 

[Nafai1123]

I hope in the future international laws are passed concerning global warming and climate change deniers are charged with the endangerment of the human race and are imprisoned. They should be treated equally to those who have participated in or worked for governments who participated in genocide.

 

[forknknife]

I hope in the future international laws are passed concerning global warming and climate change deniers are charged with the endangerment of the human race and are imprisoned. They should be treated equally to those who have participated in or worked for governments who participated in genocide.

Exactly what I was saying 2 posts above, I agree. No more Mr nice guy.

 

[mattiewheels]

I bet the earth can't wait to get rid of us. Then it heals up and comes back better then ever!

 

[Ogodei]

China will need to take the lead to save the world, and frankly they'll love every minute of it. They've got the rare earth metals, they can take the lead on solar technology, and now your fear-mongering "China owns the world" scenarios become much more likely.

 

[Jarmel]

He's right though. In the long term, climate change is the single most significant threat to civilization as we know it. There are safeguards against nuclear war (like mutually assured destruction), but currently there are no safeguards against climate change. And the single political party on the planet that is the most staunchly opposed to accepting the reality of man-made climate change is the GOP. Even Russia and China aren't this deluded. Saudi Arabia, whose wealth is minted in oil, can nevertheless see the writing on the wall.

At some point we're probably going to live through another World War because of this. Feels bad man.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I bet the earth can't wait to get rid of us. Then it heals up and comes back better then ever!

"Glad to get those fucks off me"

 

[forknknife]

China will need to take the lead to save the world, and frankly they'll love every minute of it. They've got the rare earth metals, they can take the lead on solar technology, and now your fear-mongering "China owns the world" scenarios become much more likely.

I really don't give two fucks about China becoming the biggest superpower if they manage to save the world from Trump. All other issues, political, social, financial, etc. can get better or worse back and forth, whatever. But if we fuck up in this one issue... that's it, we're gone! It bothers me to no end how almost nobody in my Facebook feed talks about climate change, how nobody goes to demonstrations, protests... people are just thinking about useless crap for 90% of their day while this boat keeps sinking.

 

[Jarmel]

I really don't give two fucks about China becoming the biggest superpower if they manage to save the world from Trump. All other issues, political, social, financial, etc. can get better or worse back and forth, whatever. But if we fuck up in this one issue... that's it, we're gone! It bothers me to no end how almost nobody in my Facebook feed talks about climate change, how nobody goes to demonstrations, protests... people are just thinking about useless crap for 90% of their day while this boat keeps sinking.

Because it's a long term issue and the human race in general is only good at short term planning and analysis.

 

[Lime]

Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

Have you perhaps wondered 1) CO2 emissions PER CAPITA? and 2) historical emissions?

 

[ezrarh]

Mob rule was a mistake

Shit if we had mob rule, we'd have Clinton right now.

 

[Skinpop]

We've already passed so many points of no return, and turning the tide on this requires a massive change in climate action immediately -- more so than the Paris treaty calls for, and in a much shorter time than it allows for.

I am not hopeful at all for this.

return to what? There's no returning of anything in the real world. I'm not denying we're going to have massive challenges and that things will change but I find it just as unreasonable that these next four years will cement the doom of humankind.

 

[RedAssedApe]

I bet the earth can't wait to get rid of us. Then it heals up and comes back better then ever!

Final Fantasy 7 cometh

 

[Morts]

I am open to suggestions.

 

[DragonKnight]

Only strengthens my resolve to not have children. Just some bleak shit thats gonna go one way due to government majority

Edit: totally agree thst the refugees from countries ravaged by the effects from Americas contribution to global warming should be allowed to roost here.


So we have in place a party that is fucking up the lives of foreigners and will now readily deny them entrance into its own borders.

Jesus.

 

[Haly]

Also someone mentioned the decades we have before it really gets bad, and that's true.

But there's no guarantee that any tech based solution we find is going to be a magic bullet. For all we know, it could take a century or more to go into effect, which is a century of conflict over water or whatever resources are going to be in shortage by then. The longer we wait, the harder it'll be to come back.

 

[Skinpop]

Only strengthens my resolve to not have children. Just some bleak shit thats gonna go one way due to government majority

this is a great idea for ensuring only the idiots get to control the future. if you want to make a positive impact get a child and raise it to help save the planet instead.

 

[brochiller]

Why is it the US needs to be the leader in climate change, when China has far surpassed us in global CO2 emissions?

The three big dogs are similar sizes economy wise, China is ahead of the US in some calculations:

GDP of USA: $18 trillion
GDP of European Union: $16 trillion
GDP of China: $14 trillion

The reality is that CO2 emissions by US and Europe are going down every year as emissions rise every year from the rest of the world:

So again I ask... what exactly do you want the US to do?

I am not blaming China, they manufacture goods for the rest of the world now so obviously they have taken on that burden (and economic boom) but it seems weird to say "Hey America, you need to fix this!" while the reality is that the solutions, impacts, and issues are almost entirely within Asia at this junction.

Stuff like the UN Green Climate Fund is ok I guess, its been running for a few years fund raising but it basically is just moving money from western countries and giving it to poorer countries and hoping something magic happens. There aren't any concrete fixes and no magic bullet that will somehow make fusion power plants arise. Solar and wind tech is progressing at a decent clip but its only now reaching the cusp of competitive with coal and gas, and not much government can do to speed that up.

If the US backs out of the climate deal China and India will no longer abide by the restrictions either. They're not going to just let the US pollute and be more competitive in certain industries while they try to be green.

The United States' involvement and the example they set is instrumental to what the rest of the world does when it comes to climate change.

 

[Laiza]

Also someone mentioned the decades we have before it really gets bad, and that's true.

But there's no guarantee that any tech based solution we find is going to be a magic bullet. For all we know, it could take a century or more to go into effect, which is a century of conflict over water or whatever resources are going to be in shortage by then. The longer we wait, the harder it'll be to come back.

Resources are not a problem. Desalination only grows more efficient every year. Renewable uptake (thanks to dropping costs) is constantly improving. We're starting to get into lab-grown meat, which is considerably more resource-efficient than animal meat.

The problems are desertification, flooding of lowland regions, mass extinction of wildlife across the planet, nasty storm patterns and other crazy weather events that we cannot foresee. The solutions to these problems are all difficult and complicated, and in some cases, probably physically impossible (as if we'll ever come up with a way to reliably control the weather..). The most we can do is mitigate the damage when they happen.

It's not gonna be fun times, but unless you live in a developing nation, chances are you're going to come out fine the other end. It's everyone else you have to worry about, and that's what makes the Republicans' refusal to take responsibility all the more abhorrent.

 

[Tagyhag]

I dont fully understand why the GOP and many republicans deny climate change.

Like others have said it's due to the bribes.

But another reason is that even though I'm sure some of them DO believe that climate change is a real thing, they know that they're old enough to die before it really affects them.

 

[TheRealTalker]

• Basically lobbying by corporations is a problem.
  
• Basically mindsets of short term gain without regarding the future is a problem.
  
• Basically a present mindset without considering the future or bettering the future is the problem.
  
• Basically being inconsiderate of the bigger picture of humanity as a whole and after we leave this life what will the future have and what will they need is a problem.
  
• Basically letting your emotions and stubbornness to control you instead of actual facts and living based on your needs not your over exhausting wants which hinder the others around you in the present and the far future, thus causing more problems to build up then actually addressing them and fixing them is a problem.

Basically GOP in a nutshell is "screw everyone else, I am in it for myself"

 

[Red]

I think there is some element of intent, at least among parts of the Republican apparatus, to allow climate change to occur, because it disadvantages poorer countries disproportionately, and may be a boon to the U.S. It is as if they are accelerating a new genocide, against equatorial countries, against poor people, against those countries which do not have economies strong enough to rebound or adapt to a changing world. If the American Midwest becomes more temperate, and there is a greater latitude for an agrarian economy within the U.S., and a greater need for other countries to import goods from the U.S., we distance ourselves from those countries to an insurmountable degree. Much of the rest of the world will become dependent on us. And those areas of the United States that are most negatively affected by the change in temperature and rising sea levels are along the coast, where populations tend to be more liberal. The destruction of these areas ensures a stronger footprint for conservative lawmakers, those who are directly contributing to a changing climate, in the future.

 

[GillianSeed79]

At what point is climate change denial/lack of action considered an act of war? We need to be sanctioned by the international community

 

[David H Wong]

it's a setback but it won't stop progress.

No, in this thread only shrieking, apocalyptic alarmism is allowed. Republicans are 100% mindless murderous genocidal maniacs who hate good and love evil. They are the literal embodiment of Satan, they only want to see as many people suffer as possible, and have no human qualities whatsoever.

I guess this is the result when you spend a generation calling every member of the opposition Hitler. Where else is there to go? So, yeah, the world is over. It's all done. Might as well say goodbye. Hell is empty and demons walk the earth. No hyperbole is possible when describing the horror, etc.

 

[Skinpop]

No, in this thread only shrieking, apocalyptic alarmism is allowed. Republicans are 100% mindless murderous genocidal maniacs who hate good and love evil. They are the literal embodiment of Satan, they only want to see as many people suffer as possible, and have no human qualities whatsoever.

I guess this is the result when you spend a generation calling every member of the opposition Hitler. Where else is there to go? So, yeah, the world is over. It's all done. Might as well say goodbye. Hell is empty and demons walk the earth. No hyperbole is possible when describing the horror, etc.

people need to learn how to discuss and stop trying to debate.

 

[Goro Majima]

No, in this thread only shrieking, apocalyptic alarmism is allowed. Republicans are 100% mindless murderous genocidal maniacs who hate good and love evil. They are the literal embodiment of Satan, they only want to see as many people suffer as possible, and have no human qualities whatsoever.

I guess this is the result when you spend a generation calling every member of the opposition Hitler. Where else is there to go? So, yeah, the world is over. It's all done. Might as well say goodbye. Hell is empty and demons walk the earth. No hyperbole is possible when describing the horror, etc.

Yeah I feel like I'm nitpicking hyperbole but most dangerous organization in history?

They've got a ways to go to surpass the body count of the Nazi party....or the Mongol Empire for that matter.

I agree with the assertion that this could all have disasterous consequences....potentially.

 

[Red]

Yeah I feel like I'm nitpicking hyperbole but most dangerous organization in history?

They've got a ways to go to surpass the body count of the Nazi party....or the Mongol Empire for that matter.

I agree with the assertion that this could all have disasterous consequences....potentially.

Climate change could literally end humanity.

 

[Big-E]

That China post also fails to mention that in recent years, China has actually dropped their production and invests more than anyone practically in green energy. China has a much harder problem to deal with given they have so many more people to service and they have a huge amount of people living in really cold climates requiring a ton of heat. America could be leading, but is instead detrimental to the global cause.

 

[Jarmel]

I think there is some element of intent, at least among parts of the Republican apparatus, to allow climate change to occur, because it disadvantages poorer countries disproportionately, and may be a boon to the U.S. It is as if they are accelerating a new genocide, against equatorial countries, against poor people, against those countries which do not have economies strong enough to rebound or adapt to a changing world. If the American Midwest becomes more temperate, and there is a greater latitude for an agrarian economy within the U.S., and a greater need for other countries to import goods from the U.S., we distance ourselves from those countries to an insurmountable degree. Much of the rest of the world will become dependent on us. And those areas of the United States that are most negatively affected by the change in temperature and rising sea levels are along the coast, where populations tend to be more liberal. The destruction of these areas ensures a stronger footprint for conservative lawmakers, those who are directly contributing to a changing climate, in the future.

Those people don't just up and die. They move to the Midwest thus making the remaining parts of the country more liberal.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I don't know how children of Republican congressmen can stay sane. Their lawmaking parents would literally allow them or their children to face serious struggles of survival, for short term monetary gain.

 

[Erheller]

If the US backs out of the climate deal China and India will no longer abide by the restrictions either. They're not going to just let the US pollute and be more competitive in certain industries while they try to be green.

The United States' involvement and the example they set is instrumental to what the rest of the world does when it comes to climate change.

I don't know about India, but nah, China isn't going to back out. The US was never a shining example of becoming green - we have one of the highest per capita CO2 emissions (7th highest according to Wikipedia; China is the 20th highest). China's invested extremely heavily in renewable energy: in 2015, China invested 286 billion, while the US invested 44 billion. And if you missed the news, China is calling Trump out for his rhetoric that he's going to abandon the Paris agreement, also noting that no matter what America does, they'll continue transitioning to a greener economy. If anything, the US should be following China's example (climate-change-wise).