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[Holy Order Sol]

Yeah "convoluted" has become a buzzword at this point. Gets thrown around so much for no reason other than "ugh I have no interest in this in the first place and I'd have to pay attention to it to know about it so fuck it".

 

[aliencowz7]

I don't remember great little stories. I remember miniature introductions before a character becomes yet another soulless face in my party that will never see combat. Unless your idea of good writing is long, convoluted explanations, I don't know how you can think the writing is better.

Just because you don't like having lots of recruitable characters doesn't mean no one does. If that were the case then there wouldn't be any fans of the suikoden games, which lots of people hold entries as some of there favorite games of all time.

Also most of your points that you say trigger does way better then cross I would say cross does better then trigger so acting like cross is some abomination against humanity is pretty ridiculous considering there a large group of people that really love the game.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I don't remember great little stories. I remember miniature introductions before a character becomes yet another soulless face in my party that will never see combat. Unless your idea of good writing is long, convoluted explanations, I don't know how you can think the writing is better.

This is my memory of Cross. I've tried over the years to replay the game (including one attempt last fall), and I never manage to get far. Just not that good.

 

[Neff]

I prefer Bogus Journey and Chrono Cross. No, I'm not a counterculture nonconformist.

 

[Rocky]

Funny story about Chrono Cross. I bought it when it came out for Playstation. I was excited about a Chrono Trigger sequel. I played it for a few hours and gave up on it due to disappointment at it hardly being like Trigger. Many years later, I think I had a PS2 by then, I was looking for a game to play and decided to give my copy of Cross another chance. I really got into it then and absolutely loved it.

Ok, maybe its not really funny but I thought it was relevant lol. Also, that's one of the reasons why I don't sell games, even if I do think they are bad.

 

[pancakesandsex]

Bogus Journey was amazing.

Best of seven!

 

[Karsticles]

Just because you don't like having lots of recruitable characters doesn't mean no one does. If that were the case then there wouldn't be any fans of the suikoden games, which lots of people hold entries as some of there favorite games of all time.

Also most of your points that you say trigger does way better then cross I would say cross does better then trigger so acting like cross is some abomination against humanity is pretty ridiculous considering there a large group of people that really love the game.

I'm not against large, recruitable casts. I am against large, recruitable, terrible casts that feel tacked on and pointless. Suikoden characters generally all find some role in your game. They become smiths, trainers, bakers, etc. They put on plays, they craft runes, etc. They have a purpose. There are only a small number of Suikoden characters that serve absolutely no purpose each game. In contrast, every character but the three you use is pointless in Chrono Cross. Once you recruit a new character in Cross, you will likely never, ever touch him/her again. That character will never speak again, and will presumably sit somewhere staring off in space for the next 40 hours while you adventure about. In Chrono Cross, there is a big field of people doing jack shit all day long for no reason at all. That's not what happens in Suikoden.

Cross is an abomination among JRPGs, particularly for the name it was trying to carry on. That many people love a terrible thing is no evidence that the thing is not terrible. See: Romantic comedies, Sonic games, and screamo music.

This is my memory of Cross. I've tried over the years to replay the game (including one attempt last fall), and I never manage to get far. Just not that good.

I still have my PS1 copy. I might play through it again at some point. I remember when I first finished the game to find out that it took 3 playthroughs to get all of the characters, my first thought was "They really think I want to play through this shit again?" Missables are a sin in gaming. Forced missables are a sin against the holy spirit.

 

[LakeEarth]

CT is one of my all time favourite games, and I've probably played it through 10 times.

I stopped playing CC after about 12 hours. I tried. The plot just wasn't interesting me at the point where I was at.

 

[aliencowz7]

Funny story about Chrono Cross. I bought it when it came out for Playstation. I was excited about a Chrono Trigger sequel. I played it for a few hours and gave up on it due to disappointment at it hardly being like Trigger. Many years later, I think I had a PS2 by then, I was looking for a game to play and decided to give my copy of Cross another chance. I really got into it then and absolutely loved it.

Ok, maybe its not really funny but I thought it was relevant lol. Also, that's one of the reasons why I don't sell games, even if I do think they are bad.

The first part is what is going to happen to just about anyone going into cross expecting it to be a sequel to trigger. It was never meant to be and is more like the the xenosaga to triggers xenogears. If people didn't already know going into xenoblade that it was in no way related to xenogears I am sure alot of them likely would have come away disapointed as well.

I am sure alot of the people that disliked cross just didn't like various parts of it, but alot of people at the same time from what I have seen go into it with expectations of it being something it never set out to be.

I'm not against large, recruitable casts. I am against large, recruitable, terrible casts that feel tacked on and pointless. Suikoden characters generally all find some role in your game. They become smiths, trainers, bakers, etc. They put on plays, they craft runes, etc. They have a purpose. There are only a small number of Suikoden characters that serve absolutely no purpose each game. In contrast, every character but the three you use is pointless in Chrono Cross. Once you recruit a new character in Cross, you will likely never, ever touch him/her again. That character will never speak again, and will presumably sit somewhere staring off in space for the next 40 hours while you adventure about. In Chrono Cross, there is a big field of people doing jack shit all day long for no reason at all. That's not what happens in Suikoden.

Cross is an abomination among JRPGs, particularly for the name it was trying to carry on. That many people love a terrible thing is no evidence that the thing is not terrible. See: Romantic comedies, Sonic games, and screamo music.

Oh come on, seriously? You are going to use the random shit the characters in suikoden end up doing in town as them having a purpose of actual value? very few of the recruited characters end up with any real lasting value in the town, a large chunk of them you barely intereact with again outside battle. There were plenty of side quests and bonus areas in cross that had to do with assorted recruited characters and if you chose not to do that content or use more characters in battle then that is your fault not the games.

Saying something like Cross is an abomination among JRPGs just shows me you were unable to play the game with an open mind and had your playtime completely tainted by hoping it was a CT sequel. Not to mention your opinion is subjective not objective and its kind of shitty that I always see you in any CC related thread trying to tell people that liked the game why they should find it awful.

 

[Seasoned Badger]

The first part is what is going to happen to just about anyone going into cross expecting it to be a sequel to trigger. It was never meant to be and is more like the the xenosaga to triggers xenogears. If people didn't already know going into xenoblade that it was in no way related to xenogears I am sure alot of them likely would have come away disapointed as well.

I am sure alot of the people that disliked cross just didn't like various parts of it, but alot of people at the same time from what I have seen go into it with expectations of it being something it never set out to be.

Cross was 100% meant to be a sequel to Trigger....They wanted it to connect so hard they went back and retcon Trigger to makes things fit.

 

[Unstoppable Lionheart]

The first part is what is going to happen to just about anyone going into cross expecting it to be a sequel to trigger. It was never meant to be and is more like the the xenosaga to triggers xenogears. If people didn't already know going into xenoblade that it was in no way related to xenogears I am sure alot of them likely would have come away disapointed as well.

I am sure alot of the people that disliked cross just didn't like various parts of it, but alot of people at the same time from what I have seen go into it with expectations of it being something it never set out to be.

I don't know what you are talking about because it was supposed to be a direct sequel to Chrono Trigger. There are plenty of Chrono Trigger cameos and several explanations of how the two are supposed to tie together.

Anyone who went in looking for that sequel went in with the right mind set and was rightfully disappointed when it turned out to be a total failure.

 

[Shizzlee]

People who think trigger is better than cross makes me lol.

 

[aliencowz7]

I don't know what you are talking about because it was supposed to be a direct sequel to Chrono Trigger. There are plenty of Chrono Trigger cameos and several explanations of how the two are supposed to tie together.

Anyone who went in looking for that sequel went in with the right mind set and was rightfully disappointed when it turned out to be a total failure.

It was supposed to be a sequel in the way that other series have completely new stories with callbacks to previous games thrown throughout, not as a sequel that directly moves the story along from where the last game ended.

Its the same idea as how xeno is used in a bunch of game titles for entries that are VERY loosely connected, the links are just there for the fans and not meant to be taken super serious in continuity.

 

[RedAssedApe]

this is going to turn into another "chrono cross sucks! no it doesn't!" thread

 

[Dali]

I don't remember great little stories. I remember miniature introductions before a character becomes yet another soulless face in my party that will never see combat. Unless your idea of good writing is long, convoluted explanations, I don't know how you can think the writing is better.


You mean like the various reactions Chrono's Mom has to all the "friends" he brings over? These things are cute, but they can ultimately take away from the game. Bring a "dead" character to the other world, and my thought is "What the hell, you're just going to be surprised and then go about your business?" It was obnoxious, not cherish-able.


I don't even remember it, just that I had to suffer another goddamn boat in a PS1 RPG. Ugh.

I think a lot of the characters are woven together fairly well into one another and the world as a whole. You don't get tomes of backstory, but stuff like the Captain Fargo's history, the 4 Dragoon Devas and Glenn's story flesh out the worlds' lore and also tie a lot of the characters together. Yeah there are a bunch of one-offs, like Funguy, but even those add character and a certain a quirkiness to the game. They also make a replay pretty fun for completionists. Also every character had their own original "limit break" attack so that was fun to work towards getting and seeing. The characters added another layer of ya know... fun... to the game.

 

[Korigama]

It was supposed to be a sequel in the way that other series have completely new stories with callbacks to previous games thrown throughout, not as a sequel that directly moves the story along from where the last game ended.

Its the same idea as how xeno is used in a bunch of game titles for entries that are VERY loosely connected, the links are just there for the fans and not meant to be taken super serious in continuity.

The Xeno IPs (Xenogears, Xenosaga, Xenoblade) were never meant to be related to each other, but I'm pretty sure that Chrono Cross was intended to be a direct successor to Chrono Trigger, as everyone else has already said. Of course, I'm well aware of how contentious an issue among fans it is as to whether this is actually desirable.

 

[Taruranto]

People who think trigger is better than cross makes me lol.

People who think cross is better than trigger makes me lol.

 

[aliencowz7]

The Xeno IPs (Xenogears, Xenosaga, Xenoblade) were never meant to be related to each other, but I'm pretty sure that Chrono Cross was intended to be a direct successor to Chrono Trigger, as everyone else has already said.

I've always been under the impression it was more of a spiritual successor then any kind of direct sequel, like how radical dreamers was first. If there is any statement from the development team or something than I would gladly revise my stance accordingly but even then alot of the stuff I see used to combat CC is just so out in left field its hard to really wrap my head around.

I mean I am obviously sure this is an unpopular opinion but I didn't really think CT was as great as most people do, It was above average to great rpg but certainly not the best of all time. It reminds me more of the snes eras FF7 to be honest in terms of crazy overly passionate fandom building it up as some god among rpg men. I wouldn't fight anyone who said they liked CT more then CC but the way people bash on CC just so they can prop CT up is pretty frustrating.

 

[Mupod]

I always thought Chrono Cross was more like Highlander 2.

At least the soundtrack was good, except for the battle theme which you need to hear all the time.

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

Honestly never found either game to be very good.




Both Bill & Ted films are great though.

 

[HolyBaikal]

This comparison is a whole bucket of 'what?'

In any case, count me in as liking Chrono Trigger a lot better than Chrono Cross.

 

[KojiKnight]

Chrono Trigger is more fun, Cross is more interesting. Cross is a lot more thought provoking, but the combat and slew of characters are kinda dull.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Cross had the best JRPG combat system of ALL TIME!

Mic. Dropped.

Someone else is gonna have to fill this out b/c it's been launch since I've played it, but your attack guage filled and emptied based on defensive and offensive choices, and a fuller guage gave you access to more powerful attacks that in turn depleted your guage.

I can't remember all the details, but I just recall it being super well balanced as a risk/reward system.

I also loved that because you had so many characters, they had superspecialised stats. I gave... Hojo? The scarecrow guy all the evade enhancing items, and as a result he was basically unhittable. I think I used him as support? His offensive stats were useless from what I recall.

Anyhow, on the whole, Trigger was much better, largely owing to the plot.

Yeah, this thread is completely ignoring the premise the op outlined. The op needs to flesh out the thoery more.

B/c Trigger is generally regarded as one of the best games ever, the dissapointment over the sequel was disproportionate. Add into the fact that Cross is a very strong game in its own rite, albeit one with such an out there plot that it would not be half as popular without its pedigree, you end up with a crap-ton of people who played a really weird game who wanted something specific that they hoped to *love*.

As a result you cannot ever bring up Chrono Cross without people having an immediate visceral reaction.

Fortunately, I was able to enjoy it for what it was -after the initial soul-crushing dissapointment wore off.

Having said that, they bring back the teams to make true HD sequels to these games? I'm playing CT2 day one, and am waiting on the CC2 reviews.

 

[LowParry]

 

[PeterVenkman]

I just started playing Cross. I played and loved the shit out of Trigger as a child, and I think the battle system and vague story of Cross would have pissed me off as a younger child.

the only thing I don't like is that party members lack individuality and the story is taking it's sweet time. Other than that, I'm enjoying it

 

[Wazzy]

Both Cross and Trigger are great. They both offered different experiences and I don't understand the need to compare them. Yes, storyline wise they're connected but there's just so many big differences that I don't think it warrants hating on Cross.

Now, I do wish Cross had been a seperate game so that the fan backlash wasn't so strong. The battle system was fun, music was fantastic, art and setting were gorgeous and some of the characters had great side-plots. I really loved Glenn's.

 

[eXistor]

But Bogus Journey is better than Excellent Adventure.

 

[ProtomanNeo]

While we're sharing stories about Chrono Cross. I remember I was out at E3 just prior to the games release here in the states, and it was at Square's booth. Well I'm playing it a little trying to find some kind of connection with Trigger and can find none. I notice some one watching play, and turn around to find a young Japanese gentlemen, who I can only assume was one of the developers. In pretty broken English he asks me what I think of game. I then proceed inquire about the original cast, and where the heck they are. He then takes the controller from me and does some kind of button combination to get to a saved game screen. He then proceeds to load a game saved at the very end where you see the, I guess they're the ghosts of Crono, Lucca, and Marle. Suffice to say I could not hide my disappointment, and the brief meeting quickly got awkward. I still feel kind of bad about the look of disappointment that crossed his face for a moment when he saw my response.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

What if I liked Bogus Journey better?

I wouldn't say that's a fair comparison because the protagonists are different. I think it's more like Chrono Trigger is Terminator and Chrono Cross is Terminator 2! (I know, also a bad comparison).

I love both games but Chrono Cross really stood out to me and I just loved it more.

 

[solarus]

People who think cross is better than trigger makes me lol.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[djtiesto]

What would that make Radical Dreamers? (cool graphic adventure, played it for the first time last year, great job on the fan translation courtesy of Neo Demiforce)

 

[Bulzeeb]

Nothing about Chrono Cross puts it above its predecessor.

the story was weaker in cc and the battel system is up to debate and preferences but when it comes to music, CC ost was leagues beyong

 

[rockmanjoe]

As much as I loved Trigger, I always thought Cross was way better. Played through it countless times.

 

[NeonZ]

It was supposed to be a sequel in the way that other series have completely new stories with callbacks to previous games thrown throughout, not as a sequel that directly moves the story along from where the last game ended.

If that were really the case, they wouldn't have added two new endings to Trigger (first the animated one in the PS1 version and later the extra boss one for the DS version) that tie Chrono and Cross closer together. You don't see Final Fantasy getting stuff like that. It's pretty obvious that they are meant to be directly connected and Cross just failed at it.

 

[DJIzana]

As much as I loved Trigger, I always thought Cross was way better. Played through it countless times.

I'm the same. While without Trigger there'd be no Cross, I enjoy the world, the music and certain characters a fair bit more. Serge's weapon was totally awesome too. They did a great job with the creativity on the Swallow.

 

[Dead]

Makes sense

Bogus Journey is better than Excellent Adventure, and Chrono Cross is better than Chrono Trigger

 

[Trojita]

Chrono Cross isn't very good.

It shit on what you did in Chrono Trigger, made a joke character into a serious villain that fucked over the heroes you liked in Chrono Trigger, and the storyline with Dinopolis and other stuff made no sense.

 

[VistraNorrez]

Interesting concept as I prefer both Bogus Journey and Chrono Cross over their predecessors.

 

[Sephzilla]

I played Cross years before I played Trigger, oddly enough. I still find Trigger to be the better installment, though. I just generally think Cross was a bit too ambitious for its own good. The soundtrack was fantastic though.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I prefer both Chrono Trigger to Cross and Bogus Journey to Excellent Adventure.

How does that figure into all of this?

 

[reson8or]

I find CT wholly lacking when compared to CC. I've tried numerous times to get through CT, fail every time. Game is just boring to me. CC on the other hand is absolutely beautiful from start to finish.

 

[MetatronM]

I've always been under the impression it was more of a spiritual successor then any kind of direct sequel, like how radical dreamers was first. If there is any statement from the development team or something than I would gladly revise my stance accordingly but even then alot of the stuff I see used to combat CC is just so out in left field its hard to really wrap my head around.

Cross is a direct sequel and takes place in the same world, and the plot is driven by events directly caused by the Chrono Trigger crew fucking with the timeline. Crono, Marle, Lucca, and Robo all appear in the game, and the whole thing is centered around the loose end Chrono Trigger left with

Spoiler

Schala

.

It does a pretty nice job of shitting all over the main cast of Chrono Trigger, actually.

 

[Monomythian]

Cross is pretentious bum wash, at least the graphics and music were good though.

 

[RSLAEV]

I tried to play Chrono Cross when it came out. I had never played Chrono Trigger. I had a bad time.

My wife (then GF) also tried to play Chrono Cross. She had played Chrono Trigger and enjoyed it.

She also had a bad time.

 

[BocoDragon]

Cross is a wonderful game. Deserves all 10s, actually. Anyone who dares give it a 9.5 is worthy of death threats.

 

[Andrew.]

Chrono Trigger is my favorite game of all time. Cross is up there too.

There's gotta be a better time travel film analogy than that. Comparing the Chrono games to the Bill & Ted movies is kind of degrading and a bit insulting. Those movies were pure cheese. =P

Trigger = Back to the Future 1

Cross = The Back to the Future animated series

 

[CorvoSol]

I really like Chrono Cross, but I have two main problems with it. The first is that it harps on about how crappy humanity is while contradicting Chrono Trigger (humans somehow being evolved because of Lavos, despite Ayla being perfectly human before the fall of Lavos (cave speech or not, all artwork and ingame text suggests that Ayla was human)) and second that Magus' role was so cut.

The second disc is where everything goes crazy. As Pigspeakers once put it to me: "Disc one of Chrono Cross makes perfect sense to me. All I remember about Disc 2 of Chrono Cross is dragons dragons dragons IT'S OVER."

 

[RSLAEV]

Every game is the best game ever made. 100/100 on Metacritic. If you disagree you hate games and do not deserve to be loved by any other human being. I have sunk hundreds of hours into my game collection and every second of those hours was the best second of my entire life. Semper Games.

 

[ubercheez]

Played Chrono Cross first and loved it dearly. Tried Trigger later and it was okay, but it just didn't resonate with me like Cross did, and I think I only got about halfway in.

I imagine my experience mirrors many people who played Trigger first. Both games have their virtues, but they differ from one another enough that people looking for more after playing one may not be satisfied with the other.

 

[Htown]

I liked the combat in Chrono Cross, it looked great and the music was amazing, but there were too many entirely pointless characters and the plot didn't make a damn bit of sense.