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CNN: Pope held private meeting with same-sex couple in U.S.
- Thread starter ivysaur12
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How?
entremet
Member
Those are just the ones that dominate the political airwaves. Vocal doesn't mean majority.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
God loves everybody. The pope does too. Maybe we should learn something from it.
Corronchilejano
Member
Americans love outrage culture.
The idea of embracing someone who doesn't think exactly like you is scary. That's true of those on the left as well as the right.
Still, the rest of the world should be grateful. Just imagine how much America could get done if it dropped the outrage culture and the left and the right actually worked together, hand-in-hand?
Vigilant Walrus
Member
This sort of rhetoric is the exact kind absolutist viewpoint that undermines the progress. No it does not. You cannot pull a blatant "with us or against us" argument. You're a person with infinite variables and complexities, not a Sith that deals in absolutes.
Dixon's Jet
Banned
Can gay men be priests now? Can a gay man or a woman ever be the pope?
Until it's yes to both of those questions, I have problems with the church. It's such an openly discriminatory organisation.
I don't even mind the stuff about Jesus being brutally tortured and murdered so that we could all be forgiven by God or something. The practical results of Catholic discrimination are huge and the pope needs to leave no one in doubt about this.
If he leaves room for dissent he isn't doing a good job. He's the infallible leader. He can say anything and be right according to my understanding of what the pope is.
Until it's yes to both of those questions, I have problems with the church. It's such an openly discriminatory organisation.
I don't even mind the stuff about Jesus being brutally tortured and murdered so that we could all be forgiven by God or something. The practical results of Catholic discrimination are huge and the pope needs to leave no one in doubt about this.
If he leaves room for dissent he isn't doing a good job. He's the infallible leader. He can say anything and be right according to my understanding of what the pope is.
To be fair, I can't blame people for reacting the way they did (me included) due to how dehumanized and poorly treated the LGBT community as a whole is.
Dude Abides
Banned
Some people think gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Other people think they're sinful deviants bound for hell. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.
[insert trite image here]
[insert trite image here]
If you're against giving gay people equal rights then you are anti gay it's not complicated.
Flying Toaster
Member
The ride never ends with this Pope. Always a roller-coaster of emotion. At least this is encouraging to hear, I was kind of bummed out by the Kim Davis meeting (though it seems that may have not been all that it seems?)
It's not just a difference of opinion though when one side or the other wants to enact policies and promote viewpoints that negatively affect the lives of certain groups of people. When a difference of opinion means someone may not be able to get married, may get killed or abused by the state, may not get access to healthcare, may not be in full control of their own body, may be denied economic opportunities, etc. it becomes clear why things get heated.
It's not just a difference of opinion though when one side or the other wants to enact policies and promote viewpoints that negatively affect the lives of certain groups of people. When a difference of opinion means someone may not be able to get married, may get killed or abused by the state, may not get access to healthcare, may not be in full control of their own body, may be denied economic opportunities, etc. it becomes clear why things get heated.
Best part.
Yeah he met with a bunch of people in the embassy's waiting room including Kim Davis but there was just one real audience arranged by the pope at the embassy and it was to a longtime friend of his who is gay.
This whole story that had been coming out the past couple days with all its twists and turns is fascinating.
Dai Kaiju
Member
"Pope holds secret meeting with same sex couple"
Miles Quaritch
Member
See through a hollow gesture, because that's exactly what it is.
I don't understand why people are trying to spin this situation in favor of the pope. If you look at the Vatican press release, you see a very vague denial that the pope doesn't endorse all the specific details of Davis's case and that there were other people at the ambassador's house to meet the pope.
What it doesn't deny is 1) The pope met with Davis and her husband one on one in a private room. 2) The pope made encouraging comments that were pretty obviously in reference to her specific circumstances and actions. 3) The pope is against gay marriage 4) He has said that religious people should be given special conscientious exemptions to laws. 5) By the Vatican's own words, his meeting with the same sex couple was because one of the men was an ex student and was not any sign of acceptance of homosexuality.
The pope may be more progressive the the last couple, but let's not kid ourselves. He still spouts a lot of backwards garbage.
What it doesn't deny is 1) The pope met with Davis and her husband one on one in a private room. 2) The pope made encouraging comments that were pretty obviously in reference to her specific circumstances and actions. 3) The pope is against gay marriage 4) He has said that religious people should be given special conscientious exemptions to laws. 5) By the Vatican's own words, his meeting with the same sex couple was because one of the men was an ex student and was not any sign of acceptance of homosexuality.
The pope may be more progressive the the last couple, but let's not kid ourselves. He still spouts a lot of backwards garbage.
Alcoremortis
Member
Um... yes? They always could.
Actually, in the Catholic faith, becoming a priest is probably the most acceptable route for a gay man to go, since it involves being celibate.
Well, the men anyways. The church will have to lose a lot more priests before they even start considering women for the job.
The pope meeting life long friend that is gay is a hollow gesture? The pope, from the Vatican, this isn't breakthrough?
It's a form of perpetual motion machine.
M0nochromatic
Member
It's really beautiful to see the Pope treat both sides with love. Both the people who hate homosexuals, and the homosexuals themselves.
He really dosen't care at all.
He really dosen't care at all.
Pretty much. Absolutism thinking every way, everything's balck, everything's white, it's like actual people don't exist for them.
Skellig Gra
Member
No surprise there. Regardless of his public stance on Church doctrine he's had a consistent message of love and compassion for people on a human level across all spectrums.
Pope Francis is against gay marriage, and has called it ideological colonization of the family,. That's not neutrality.
I can't tell if this is meant to be serious or not.
Replace people that hate homosexuals (homophobes) with racist and homosexuals with the race of your choice and see how you feel.
It's easy for people to be reductive when they don't know the person. Same thing happens when you hear about atrocities. The mind can't comprehend the details until it's close enough to the situation so it kind of glosses over it and simplifies it in a way that's easy to digest.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
did he throw holy water on them?
milk outta my nose
Orbis Tabula
Member
I'd be like "Yeah, obviously. But you know we're not talking about a literal bird here, right? It's sort of a metaphor. What you're saying is meaningless in this context. Hell, I don't even think it's supposed to refer to a bird in the first place."
It is emotionally.
Pollux
Member
Your understanding of what the Pope is, does, and can do is terrible. Go read what Papal Infallibility is and then get back to us.
EatinOlives
Member
I want a private meeting between the Pope, Bish, and Evilore
888
Member
This all day.
Emotional neutrality is meaningless. The Ideology and dogma he espouses is what has real effects.
Flying Toaster
Member
Wouldn't this just be a remake of the documentary "The Devils Advocate". I would like to think we don't need to see this.
nrvalleytime
Member
No, it doesn't. You can't dilute a man's position and life into a single stance because it's convenient and easy for an argument.
He's the Pope. The odds of him altering the church's core beliefs are pretty much 0, but how he acts towards people of different beliefs can change.
Yes it does. This is like trying to claim that someone who believes that women shouldn't be allowed to vote isn't sexist.
AcademicSaucer
Member
celibate homosexuals were allowed until Benedict XVI IIRC
Vigilant Walrus
Member
"May be more progressive than the last couple"?
The last pope had a semi-public refuge for a known world-wide pedophile ring.
Look- Nobody here is saying that the pope is perfect, but you have to take progress in steps and try and keep the ball rolling. It's childish and unrealistic to go all-or-nothing in some vindictive hissy fit because progressive reformation is not happening fast enough. It is going massively in the right direction.
Lets keep the positive ball rolling and celebrate it going in the right direction instead of underplaying it by focusing on the pieces still missing because it is not going fast enough. Nobody is getting off the hook, but the alternative of throwing a hissy-fit or being a debbie downer is not gonna do any good. It's just going to widen the gap between the religious and the non-religious camps.
Dixon's Jet
Banned
My understanding was passed to me by Catholic priests, so...?
You know. The position was created by God, and the pope shares a special link with God.
nrvalleytime
Member
It's not like that at all. This entire line of thinking ignores the real connection between faith, culture, politics, structures, communal living, sexuality, and historical context. Plus, you're ignoring the compassion and love this man shows towards people. Seems flippant, unnecessary, and rash to label him so easily.
He met with this couple; his actions speak louder than your words.
Also - when you choose to define your existence by a particular part of your existence instead of viewing yourself as a holistic being, the tendency grows to label others who disagree with that singular aspect of your humanity. It does a disservice to both the named and the namer.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Will you stop pulling strawmen? Please. That's not the same thing at all and you know it.
Pollux
Member
Papal infallibility can only be invoked in very specific circumstances when the Pope is speaking of matters of faith and morals. And off the top of my head there have only been an handful of infallible teachings made by popes over the last 2,000 years.
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