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[Black-Wind]

Soooo, it's mission based and all missions are unlocked from the start.
Play from beginning, or any mission you want.

That's a lot of words to say that one point.

I don't think you getz it.

Thats a good thing!

More like, a boring thing >_>

I think it would be cool if more than a hand full of Gaffers knew what Nintendo was talking about if/ when they say a game will use this.

 

[Vinci]

Just saying, I'd much prefer the Approach Movie to be a ghost that's within the game itself and you can try to follow along with it - such as the ghosts that Mario Kart used. The best thing about having it within the game would be that they could create some reason for it existing - the spirit of past Links trying to help the new guy out, etc. Not too keen on a separate window though as it's not something you can explain as being in the game, if you know what I mean.

Do think the idea is a good one overall though.

 

[grandjedi6]

I think it was said somewhere that the more you watch the digest, for example 2 hours, you can start the game from the chapter that you should get to after 2 hours. But I could've misunderstood.

Yeah you misunderstood slightly. In order to prevent players from just going straight to the final boss there are limitations set up in the digest mode. In order to unlock the digest mode and subsequently unlock more sections of it, there will be time requirement whether it be playtime, a certain date or a number of days since the game was first started (the patent mentions all 3). Also the patent mentions the requirement of beating the game once in order to unlock the digest mode before the time limit is up.

Look I know Nintendo want more non-gamers to play zelda,but did they have to go through all this trouble if they can just have different difficulty settings.

I mean whats the point of playing a game if I can skip ahead,and even though I loved TP Zelda needs to be alot more challenging,and hint videos and skipping ahead of difficult puzzles isnt exactly why I play videogames,and is nothing I want in any sort of game.

This "invention" has two goals in mind: (a) make the game playable for those with little time or skill and (B) do so without hurting the experience for people who want to play regularly. Thus there are alot of limitations imposed on these features. For example you can't just skip ahead since the digest section has to be unlocked and since you can't save in the digest section.

I don't think I understand the digest mode, or I'm misunderstanding it. What's the point of this? If they're going to make it easier for the inexperienced, shouldn't the optional hint be enough?

The digest mode essentially plays itself with the option of you stoping it at anytime and playing from there. So its made so that those with little time and skill can still experience the game's story and also still have the option of playing parts of the game.

Didn't see this image yet... notice that the arrow between "External Memory Card Connector" and "Input/Output Processor" goes both ways.

Edit: I am new here. Could I have some help getting the image to display properly?

You can't hotlink the patent office's tif files dude

Serious question for anyone who read through it; does this say it's going to be integrated into the game, a separate 'channel', or is it going to be some sort of strategy guide memory card? The 'computer readable storage medium' makes me think the latter is possible.

The patent says it will be integrated direct into the game. However the patent does mention the possibility of storing the videos on a server and streaming it over the internet instead of storing it soley on the game disk.

Soooo, it's mission based and all missions are unlocked from the start.
Play from beginning, or any mission you want.

That's a lot of words to say that one point.

The patent says nothing of that sort.

 

[dyls]

Just saying, I'd much prefer the Approach Movie to be a ghost that's within the game itself and you can try to follow along with it - such as the ghosts that Mario Kart used. The best thing about having it within the game would be that they could create some reason for it existing - the spirit of past Links trying to help the new guy out, etc. Not too keen on a separate window though as it's not something you can explain as being in the game, if you know what I mean.

Do think the idea is a good one overall though.

That would be pretty difficult in an action/adventure style game. It works in Mario Kart because you are on a pretty set path with a very limited set of actions. In something like Zelda, having to follow each motion in real time to keep up with the ghost would be more frustrating to a casual player than going it alone.

It sounds here like a small window will pop up while you are playing, which perhaps means that you could try to mimic what the video is doing as it's playing, or you could just watch and then tackle the issue.

Soooo, it's mission based and all missions are unlocked from the start.
Play from beginning, or any mission you want.

That's a lot of words to say that one point.

First of all, it's a patent, which are always filled with legalese and repetitive language in order to cover the patent holder's ass in case of copyright infringement. Second, read some more—it says a whole lot more than that.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

Phantom Hourglass, has been released already.

Yeah, but PH sucks and didn't resolve anything from TWW.

 

[Perdew]

The patent says it will be integrated direct into the game. However the patent does mention the possibility of storing the videos on a server and streaming it over the internet instead of storing it soley on the game disk.

Thanks!

 

[Caesar III]

Yeah, but PH sucks and didn't resolve anything from TWW.

I have to second that. I never got past the boomerang in Phantom Hourglass. The game just sucks.

 

[Vinci]

That would be pretty difficult in an action/adventure style game. It works in Mario Kart because you are on a pretty set path with a very limited set of actions. In something like Zelda, having to follow each motion in real time to keep up with the ghost would be more frustrating to a casual player than going it alone.

Never denied that. Simply suggesting what I'd prefer or where I'd like to see this sort of system go in the future given it's not currently feasible. Just really liked the ghosts in MK.

 

[wRATH2x]

This "invention" has two goals in mind: (a) make the game playable for those with little time or skill and (B) do so without hurting the experience for people who want to play regularly. Thus there are alot of limitations imposed on these features. For example you can't just skip ahead since the digest section has to be unlocked and since you can't save in the digest section.

How can we know that?,all the patent says is what the feature does,not its intention,so please what makes you think thats their reasoning.

 

[Vinci]

How can we know that?,all the patent says is what the feature does,not its intention,so please what makes you think thats their reasoning.

It clearly spells out the feature's limitations in the document.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

If Nintendo wants to make Zelda Wii more user friendly, then I can bet you they will stick to a different graphical style. Something the opposite of TP's style. Personally, I want another cel shaded Zelda.

 

[Gamecocks625]

If Nintendo wants to make Zelda Wii more user friendly, then I can bet you they will stick to a different graphical style. Something the opposite of TP's style. Personally, I want another cel shaded Zelda.

I agree. In my opinion, the cell-shaded Zelda (TWW and PH) is the best graphical and art-style choice for the series.

 

[Vinci]

If Nintendo wants to make Zelda Wii more user friendly, then I can bet you they will stick to a different graphical style. Something the opposite of TP's style. Personally, I want another cel shaded Zelda.

Somewhere there's a Nintendo executive playing WoW and going, "Hmm, elves ... Link has pointy ears ... WoW is played by legions of people who never touched a videogame before ... WE HAVE A WINNER!!"

I'd personally love a return to Wind Waker.

 

[wRATH2x]

It clearly spells out the feature's limitations in the document.

But are you sure it will be as challenging as you want it to be,because this is the same company who claimed Super Mario Galaxy was challenging,and it turned out to be the easiest 3D Mario,they said TP would be difficult,need I say more.

Besides Nintendo have been advocating easier simpler games ever since the DS,what makes you so sure they will change that now?

 

[Black-Wind]

Seems like the patent says these basic things . . . (has been said before but it seems like some people (John Harker) didn't get it.

GAME MODE: Reg game. Play it how you like. But theres a "hint" button that may pop up if you are have problems (may be time based . . . as in "it's taking you too long, do you want a hint?" ). If pressed it shows you "moving images" of what is needed to solve the puzzel. Could use screen shots in a storyboad like manner or it could be a short movie I guess.

DIGEST MODE: Seems to be a movie recording of a dev or w/e playing the main parts of the game. You can jump in and play at w/e point the recording is at. It does not go into details like sub-plots and side things, only the main things. And you can't save in it. It allows you to basicaly see the main game's flow with out having to play it.

SCENE MODE: You can select different flag points of the game that the devs have put in and start playing from w/e point. For exampl, you can start from halfway in the game or at the 3rd floor of w/e cave. I think its like the digest mode in that is only covers the main parts and nothing on the side (I think they both use the same selection of scenes/ flags). Allows people with lil time to go in and play from w/e point they want to play from.

And yeah, the more I think of it the more this seems to fit LoZ . . . seeing as Nintendo doesn't have many big Adventure/ puzzle games.

But are you sure it will be as challenging as you want it to be,because this is the same company who claimed Super Mario Galaxy was challenging,and it turned out to be the easiest 3D Mario . . .

WTF? SMG level was right in the sweet spot when it comes to "challenging". You can either beat the game . . . or do EVERYTHING and beat the game and thant do EVERYTHING again with harder controls.

 

[Vinci]

But are you sure it will be as challenging as you want it to be,because this is the same company who claimed Super Mario Galaxy was challenging,and it turned out to be the easiest 3D Mario,they said TP would be difficult,need I say more.

If you did everything in Mario Galaxy, it wasn't that easy. Beating the game, yes.

Besides Nintendo have been advocating easier simpler games ever since the DS,what makes you so sure they will change that now?

Because they want their games to achieve market penetration of more than one demographic, they've been noticeably - and I believe even publicly stated - making some of their games less difficult. What this feature would allow is for them to make a game harder whilst still maintaining the ability of people outside the core demographic to take part in it. Considering the average casual gamer isn't going to go out and buy a strategy guide for a game, this would allow them to at least finish the thing.

But if your mind is made up that Nintendo's going to keep making their games simpler and easier, even after this provides them an option not to, then I'm not going to change your mind.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

No, you can only believe, hope isn't allowed on Neogaf.

Also, my biggest wonder is if this is going to just be a cool feature for replays, or if they can work it into the story its self.

If you ask me, it sort of looks like...

I dunno. A third person Dragon Quest Swords, in a way. Except instead of stopping to fight monsters, you stop to solve puzzles? Once you solve a puzzle, a cutscene picks up that you watch, and that carries you to the next puzzle.

And you can select any puzzle ("scene") from a menu, watching it from there.

 

[Gowans]

UG I hate patents in games, glad they're exempt in the EU on software and games.

But doesn't some of this already exist in games where you can download replays and start playing from any point.

Duke Nuke'm XBLA is one example that pops to mind.

 

[KittenMaster]

But are you sure it will be as challenging as you want it to be,because this is the same company who claimed Super Mario Galaxy was challenging,and it turned out to be the easiest 3D Mario,they said TP would be difficult,need I say more.

Mario Galaxy *is* challenging. It's not Contra or Ninja Gaiden difficult, obviously, but it takes actual effort to get 100% in the game.

Mario Galaxy is like, the perfect easy game. It's what easy games should be.

 

[Black-Wind]

If Nintendo wants to make Zelda Wii more user friendly, then I can bet you they will stick to a different graphical style. Something the opposite of TP's style. Personally, I want another cel shaded Zelda.

Said it once and I shall say it again!

+

= Bad ass!

 

[wRATH2x]

But if your mind is made up that Nintendo's going to keep making their games simpler and easier, even after this provides them an option not to, then I'm not going to change your mind.

Thats what Im saying,it provides them with the option,but its an option,we arent sure that they will use it.

P.S.
Ive beating SMG 100% a little too quickly,plus I have yet to get 100% on either 64 or sunshine and Im still trying after all these years,so yeah I thought it was too easy.

 

[Vinci]

Thats what Im saying,it provides them with the option,but its an option,we arent sure that they will use it.

I think many of us are counting on Nintendo being greedy and wanting to appeal to as many people as possible is the thing. We assume this is a move to appease the casual base of the console, but making the games more challenging at the same time would appeal to the core demographic quite a bit.

 

[grandjedi6]

But theres a "hint" button that may pop up if you are have problems (may be time based . . . as in "it's taking you too long, do you want a hint?" ). If pressed it shows you "moving images" of what is needed to solve the puzzel. Could use screen shots in a storyboad like manner or it could be a short movie I guess.

The patent actually never specifies if the hints are available always or need to be unlocked.

Also by moving images they mean video clips as they specify that the "moving images" might be shown at a lower image quality and framerate than the normal game. So as to create a motivation for the player to still solve the puzzle on their own.

If you ask me, it sort of looks like...

I dunno. A third person Dragon Quest Swords, in a way. Except instead of stopping to fight monsters, you stop to solve puzzles? Once you solve a puzzle, a cutscene picks up that you watch, and that carries you to the next puzzle.

And you can select any puzzle ("scene") from a menu, watching it from there.

The patent only seems like that for ease of understanding (it actually mentions it does that too). But the patent itself never states the game will be separated into individual puzzles or the like. In fact it implies the opposite since the puzzle it uses as an example is opening a door. If you would take this patent to its full potential it would mean thousands of puzzles and events scripted.

 

[morningbus]

Thats what Im saying,it provides them with the option,but its an option,we arent sure that they will use it.

As someone else said earlier, why would they go through all this trouble on an already easy game? Unless, of course, your argument is that the "win button" being there will instantly kill all challenge.

 

[SappYoda]

Miyamoto making a teenage mutant ninja turtles game??!!??!

 

[wRATH2x]

As someone else said earlier, why would they go through all this trouble on an already easy game? Unless, of course, your argument is that the "win button" being there will instantly kill all challenge.

No,all Im saying is we dont know for sure,and Im sure this isnt a win button but this is the closest its gotten to it.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Said it once and I shall say it again!

+

= Bad ass!

You want to see link rupture mario's anus.

 

[Killthee]

Why the legend of OO. First screen too:

:lol @ the house in the background. Its style just makes me laugh.

It reminds me of:

: O

 

[ElFly]

Thats what Im saying,it provides them with the option,but its an option,we arent sure that they will use it.

P.S.
Ive beating SMG 100% a little too quickly,plus I have yet to get 100% on either 64 or sunshine and Im still trying after all these years,so yeah I thought it was too easy.

64 is easier than Galaxy, definitely.

Sunshine is the hardest, though.

 

[Black-Wind]

The patent actually never specifies if the hints are available always or need to be unlocked.

Also by moving images they mean video clips as they specify that the "moving images" might be shown at a lower image quality and framerate than the normal game. So as to create a motivation for the player to still solve the puzzle on their own.

Well, I guess I was throwing my on spin on it cause thats how they did it in past LoZ titles.:lol
(Which is why I said "may" but thank you for the correction)

And I guess it's a movie if it has shitty frame-rate.

No,all Im saying is we dont know for sure,and Im sure this isnt a win button but this is the closest its gotten to it.

I agree with morningbus. It would be no need to making all of this if they are going to make ever thing easy. They have said more than once that they want LoZ Wii to appeal to the "core" and the new gamers.

And this really isn't too close to a "win button" IMO. 2 of these modes have a "big bro/sis" feel to them. Like how someone might ask their big bro/sis how to do a puzzle/ get this item/ beat this boss and they would say " go here, take that, walk there" or w/e.

Digest mode is kinda like having your big bro/sis play past a level or fight for you so that you can get to "the fun part" or w/e. (Does anyone know if you can let the CPU take control of your character again after you take control of it?) It seems to have some limits that I have forgotten.

Scene mode makes the game alot more easy to play if you don't have loads of time. Turns it into a book where you can start at w/e point you want and fight any boss with out playing the whole game over and over just to get to that point.

Theres nothing here thats really a "win button", just a series of things you CAN do. If anything it helps those of us who like playing the game.

 

[BobJustBob]

I mean whats the point of playing a game if I can skip ahead

I'm sure you will have no idea what the hell I am talking about, but some people play games to have fun.

 

[morningbus]

No,all Im saying is we dont know for sure,and Im sure this isnt a win button but this is the closest its gotten to it.

Well to be totally fair, you've taken the other end of the argument. Yes, there is nothing in this patent filing that says the next Zelda will be extremely difficult or extremely easy, nor is there any actual confirmation that this will be used for anything. We're all wrong for assuming anything of the gameplay from the next Zelda from this filing.

 

[timetokill]

Example: My older sister loves to play games, but always gets stuck at a certain point because she either

a) doesn't know what to do
b) doesn't have the actual skill to pull off what the game requires to proceed

So this would allow her to essentially "watch" the part she can't beat and pick up the game afterward so that she could continue.

Wicked.

Same here, except it's a younger sister, and my mom.

My sister never gets past the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time. I'm always amazed she even gets that far, but I don't want to ruin it for her by just playing that section for her. But it's not worth it to her so she just stops or starts the game over again (because she still wants to play the game, just not the Water Temple).

My mom would play Mario 64 and would have trouble with certain sections, like the penguin slide or some other spots. It would stop her from playing the game. This would do TONS to keep her playing.


Everybody should love this.


1) Most games industry folks complain about gamers not finishing their games. Most people don't see the end boss, so it's discouraged to even focus on it -- instead, focus on making that first hour so awesome that they tell all their friends to pick it up.

2) In turn, this could make developers spend more time on making the game endings cool and fun again, because they're relevant again. I don't think I'm the only one who feels like game endings have really sucked lately (BioShock, Fallout 3, etc. etc.)

3) This could make games more difficult again, especially coming out of Nintendo, since they can rely on these videos to help new gamers through the tough spots.

4) I've done a few presentations where I do a few-hour playthrough/skip-through of a game for a bunch of industry execs and personnel. Why do these presentations exist? Because, sadly, a lot of developers don't have time to play all the games that come out, but they want to know what other games are doing. What I would do is give them a 3 hour presentation on a game like GTA3 or 4, or Resident Evil 4 or whatever, basically skipping around through save files and showing the interesting bits while describing how the game works.

This would basically make those presentations obsolete for Nintendo games at least, but the devs would still get the benefit just by getting the game and watching the replays.



This is really awesome, hope it makes its way into software soon.




Edit: OH AND ONE LAST THING

Somebody has probably mentioned it, but I didn't want to go through the last couple pages of the thread. This is basically like getting the best YouTube "play-throughs" of the game fed directly into the game. I have to wonder if Nintendo saw the popularity of gaming videos on YouTube and inspired them a little.

 

[Black-Wind]

Some devs chat about what they think of this patent

http://kotaku.com/5127816/developers-respond-to-nintendos-hint-system-patent

Ben Mattes, Producer of Ubisoft's Prince of Persia
"I read through it quickly, but I'm not sure I fully understand it yet. It makes sense to me in a purely linear game, but as soon as we get sand-box, or even remotely open ended, the number of variables would seem to invalidate the potential of this system.

"ie: I'm in Fallout3 and have focused energy on sneak and unarmed combat. If I'm in a particular point in the game I can't pass, and I use this system, what 'recording' could the game know to use? It can't possibly have developer walkthroughs of all possible configurations of a character and strategies to pass through each in-game challenge. More likely as not, it would have one 'right' way to pass through a particular challenge...

"That said, as I think our work on POP probably helps demonstrate, we're all for the idea of finding ways to help non-core gamers experience (and finish) the type of games that have traditionally only been available to a select 'few' (relatively speaking, of course). If everyone out there who owns a Wii were to play and love RE5, you can bet that the budget Capcom would have available for RE6 would allow them to create something even more spectacular."

Todd Howard, Game Director, Bethesda
"Most people stop playing a certain game because they get frustrated or confused by what the game wants them to do. It becomes work and frustration, as opposed to ‘playtime.’ This idea clearly tries to alleviate that. It’s much like passing the controller to someone who knows the game really well, so you can move ahead or simply enjoy the story. It’s the classic ‘challenge or entertain’ issue that designers often deal with. I think there’s a lot of ways around that, and remained confused by what people are actually allowed to patent these days."

Jonathan Blow, Creator, Braid
"Based just on reading your posting... I don't know. I mean, it's an okay idea for a developer to have a way to show you through various parts of the game I guess, to show you side-quests you missed or whatever. I'd like to see someone try that. But as a general paradigm for playing games there are a lot of problems.

"The defining characteristic of a game is that you play it. If, in order for games to be accessible to a wider audience, we need to make it so that most people can skip over the playing it part, then what that really means is that our medium sucks. If you have to elide the basic property of your medium to make experiences in that medium desirable, then the medium itself is questionable at a very deep level.

"The proper solution is to start producing games that don't have this kind of problem — not to create the problem, then band-aid over it and hope people still have a good experience.

"The way you phrase it — "moving developers away from the notion of beginning, middle and end" — sounds cool, I would like to see more of that. But that is something that has to be a core component of the game's design. Just because you have random access to a linear experience doesn't make the experience nonlinear. You can skip to any part of a DVD movie that you want, but that doesn't mean the movie has gone away from the notion of beginning, middle, and end, you know?

"Unless you are drawing this conclusion from something I missed or that is in the original patent application, which I haven't read..."

Michael Wilford, CEO Twisted Pixel Games
"Kind Code is an interesting idea that is squarely aimed at reaching non-gamers. In fact, we often debate internally about ways to make gaming as culturally relevant as film or literature. Perhaps it's just a matter of time, or perhaps there are some systemic flaws in the way games are made and presented. Something like Kind Code, if done right, could be a way to reach anyone with your content without requiring them to be accomplished video game players.

However, if Kind Code is intended as a general solution that adds Digest Mode to all games, that might be like putting training wheels on all bicycles, including Lance Armstrong's. As long as the functionality can be tightly integrated into the right places in the right games, it could be the way to truly open gaming up to everyone. I'm sure we could find ways to use it in our character-driven games and make more people enjoy and laugh at our stuff than otherwise possible."

I agree with Todd mostly :lol

 

[Taichu]

This sounds lame to me. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were so much more easier then their predecessors. Now they are making the games even easier? If they want to make players continue playing despite "difficult" enemies and puzzles, just tease them more like in the old games. Have a cool looking dungeon that is just out of reach for now. Get them hooked by making INTERESTING dungeons in the beginning instead of tutorial walk-through dungeons.

 

[Black-Wind]

This sounds lame to me. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were so much more easier then their predecessors. Now they are making the games even easier?

Read, its good for your brainz!

 

[akakaze]

I work for IBM, and I can tell you for certain that they would look at this patent and laugh. The only reason this is getting past Nintendo's legal hounds is that Miyamoto wrote it up. :lol

GAME MODE: Reg game. Play it how you like. But theres a "hint" button that may pop up if you are have problems (may be time based . . . as in "it's taking you too long, do you want a hint?" ). If pressed it shows you "moving images" of what is needed to solve the puzzel. Could use screen shots in a storyboad like manner or it could be a short movie I guess.

Pretty much.

DIGEST MODE: Seems to be a movie recording of a dev or w/e playing the main parts of the game. You can jump in and play at w/e point the recording is at. It does not go into details like sub-plots and side things, only the main things. And you can't save in it. It allows you to basicaly see the main game's flow with out having to play it.

PRIOR ART! What about Left 4 Dead's Idle mode, where players can jump in and out at will and have the CPU take over? It's true, it's not exactly the same thing, but similar enough in nature to get rejected by an internal patent board.

SCENE MODE: You can select different flag points of the game that the devs have put in and start playing from w/e point. For exampl, you can start from halfway in the game or at the 3rd floor of w/e cave. I think its like the digest mode in that is only covers the main parts and nothing on the side (I think they both use the same selection of scenes/ flags). Allows people with lil time to go in and play from w/e point they want to play from.

PRIOR ART! What about Alone in the Dark's Chapter skipping? Pretty close, don't you think?

Overall, not a bad idea, but it seems too specific and geared deliberately toward making the next hardcore Zelda game "accessible" without putting all the hardcore Nintendo fans into a rage. There are too many similar ideas out there already, though I think there's enough originality in the Digest mode (which is basically an interactive strategy guide) to get the patent to file.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

To me it looks like this covers a system consisting of several ascending aid options for players that are unlocked in real time as the player spends time trapped by an in-game "puzzle".

The first is a simple visual hint (to use the example given in the patent, the player is stuck by a trigger locked door, after a period of time a "hint" button will unlock and can be hit to show the player character stepping on the trigger that unlocks the door).

The second option, Digest, is unlocked a time period after the first, and allows the player to view the game play itself through the "puzzle" solution (the player, still unable to find his way past the door, saves his game then loads the digest version of the area, allowing him to see how the game developer intended the puzzle to be solved, he can then start play from there or load his save and continue through that way). This is basically a fancy video walkthrough/game guide (although it's not actually a video) with the option of continuing play past the end point of the video.

The last option, unlocked a time period after the second, basically allows the player to skip to the next part of the game without completing the puzzle that halted play (the player simply can't figure out how to get the door open even with the previous help, so he simply exits and loads up the next section).

(I'm assuming all three options will unlock if the player gets through the section without needing them, so they can still go back and see how it was gotten past by Miyamoto or friends or that slick speedrunner he read about on GAF, etc.)

This will allow the Big N to release games with blue ball inducing difficulty that still have options for the more time pressed or casual gamer to get through them and get their moneys worth from the experience.

 

[wRATH2x]

I'm sure you will have no idea what the hell I am talking about, but some people play games to have fun.

I do,the primary reason I play games is for fun,and I find it fun to finally beat a game after many tries,beating the hardest puzzle or boss after many tries is probably the most rewarding thing in some games,and thats after many tries knowing the only way I can get to the end with more fun on the way their is beating this obstacle,if I have this option it would be a little too tempting to just use it.

Now,for example,Ive been playing Oot for 9 years without beating it,the main reason was the water temple,after finally beating it I was so fucking happy I stayed like that for months,Im sure Im speaking for myself here but I love challenges like this,I love beating something hard and reaching a new challenge I didnt reach a long while ago.

P.S.

Dont get me wrong Im looking forward to this game and Ill buy it anyway,I just have a very pessimistic way of anticipation,but I do like discussing this with you guys,makes me feel like a real gaffer:lol :lol

 

[Polmacaoidh]

Extremely interesting.

Some devs chat about what they think of this patent

http://kotaku.com/5127816/developers-respond-to-nintendos-hint-system-patent



I agree with Todd mostly :lol

Ehhh... developers interpreting Brian Crecente's sensationalist interpretations of Neogaf's fanboyish interpretation of a pretty technical and abstract patent doesn't amount to much imo. Of course they are going to react somewhat negatively if it's presented as a 'paradigm shift' in gaming that Nintendo is insisting every game ever made should have, and not an experiment for one suitable title.

I am however very interested in how they feel AFTER it's actually been presented by those behind it, and shown in gameplay how it's intended.

 

[manueldelalas]

I really like the idea; maybe Nintendo will make challenging games again.

I remember back in the day when Nintendo said that only 30% of the people ho bought Zelda OOT finished the game.

Then they started to make easier games, which in my opinion was a very bad move (Luigi's mansion, the Wind Waker and MK DD are the worst offenders).

If this is implemented and they start making their games challenging again (mainly Zelda games), I'm all for this idea.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Said it once and I shall say it again!

So basically you want this:

 

[TunaLover]

Jonathan Blow, Creator, Braid
"Based just on reading your posting... I don't know. I mean, it's an okay idea for a developer to have a way to show you through various parts of the game I guess, to show you side-quests you missed or whatever. I'd like to see someone try that. But as a general paradigm for playing games there are a lot of problems.

"The defining characteristic of a game is that you play it. If, in order for games to be accessible to a wider audience, we need to make it so that most people can skip over the playing it part, then what that really means is that our medium sucks. If you have to elide the basic property of your medium to make experiences in that medium desirable, then the medium itself is questionable at a very deep level.
"The proper solution is to start producing games that don't have this kind of problem — not to create the problem, then band-aid over it and hope people still have a good experience.

This guy has very good points, what I think the problem is the dual market Nintendo is trying to reach, core gamers have no problem with the current game design. You don't change the whole designing from a deep level, this is the porpouse of this patent keep the status quo, while making it optionally much accessible to casuals.

In a perfect scenario those same casuals could not require in the future the hints, digest, or whatever, as their skills become higher at the time.

 

[Polmacaoidh]

This guy has very good points, what I think the problem is the dual market Nintendo is trying to reach, core gamers have no problem with the current game design. You don't change the whole designing from a deep level, this is the porpouse of this patent keep the status quo, while making it optionally much accessible to casuals.

In a perfect scenario those same casuals could not require in the future the hints, digest, or whatever, as their skills become higher at the time.

Agree on everything.

 

[Azure J]

I have never been so totally on the fence about something like this in my entire life. Maybe it's because I'm still not fully comprehending what this all means, but as it stands right now, I'd have to agree mostly with both Jonathan Blow's and Michael Wilford's comments on the affair.

 

[scitek]

I think this is Miyamoto trying to remedy the problem so many people have with the Wii's disruption of the market. I so often see people on here hating the Wii for its appeal to casuals, and how it's "killing gaming," but this is obviously an idea at getting those casual gamers to try more "hardcore" genres and titles. I've seen it mentioned before, just imagine if even 20% of those new Wii owners that had never played a game before ventured into playing games on the Xbox 360 and PS3, I can't see that being bad in any way. I see this as nothing but a positive, as I can only imagine how put-off by some games a lot of people must be, and if this introduces them to some new experiences, it's completely welcome to me.

 

[BobJustBob]

I do,the primary reason I play games is for fun,and I find it fun to finally beat a game after many tries,beating the hardest puzzle or boss after many tries is probably the most rewarding thing in some games,and thats after many tries knowing the only way I can get to the end with more fun on the way their is beating this obstacle,if I have this option it would be a little too tempting to just use it.

That's not fun. The feeling of accomplishment you get when you overcome a difficult challenge is something else. Fun is when you enjoy something just for the sake of doing it. Taking a walk in the snow is fun. Hiking ten miles in the snow is something else. Challenge and fun and unrelated concepts.

 

[Black-Wind]

So basically you want this:

Nope!

WW art style is shit to me. LoZ:OoA art style in full 3D running on SMG engine = the bad assness!

That's not fun. The feeling of accomplishment you get when you overcome a difficult challenge is something else. Fun is when you enjoy something just for the sake of doing it. Taking a walk in the snow is fun. Hiking ten miles in the snow is something else. Challenge and fun and unrelated concepts.

I pretty much agree with this.

And something in Wrath2X's post got my eye . . .

I do,the primary reason I play games is for fun,and I find it fun to finally beat a game after many tries,beating the hardest puzzle or boss after many tries is probably the most rewarding thing in some games,and thats after many tries knowing the only way I can get to the end with more fun on the way their is beating this obstacle,if I have this option it would be a little too tempting to just use it.

You kinda remind me of people who blame "low damage" as one of the reason's TP was "too easy" yet they take every heart up-grade they can find and look past the fact that you can go the whole game with out heart upgrades well using only wooden sheilds (which brake, leaving you with out a bloke action) and never talk to Midna when she wants to give you clues.

Yeah, Im pretty sure people will bash LoZ Wii for being too easy because they don't have the self control to not click on the hint button when they are confused with something. I, myself, refuse to call TP easy because I had to go on the web and find out how to do the last part of the air temple puzz and I KNOW it would have taken afew hours to figure out (and I didn't play it as hard as I could have. Took all the heart up grades I could + got the best Sheild + talked to Midna alot (I liked her voice so I did it for that .. but still ) and so on).


Fun and accomplishment arnt the same thing to me. I could do something REALLY hard to do (like super math) and come out of it with a feeling of accomplishment (YAY!) but, more so, feel like I just wasted my time doing it. But at the same time I could sit down for hours drawing and feel both accomplishment and enjoyment.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

So basically:

• hardcore Nintendo fans are happy because their most wanted titles aren't going to casualized (easier), in fact, games like Zelda can have much harder puzzles and more complicated/interesting dungeons.
• Casuals/non-gamers are also happy, because they can play these incredible games with absolutely no problem due to this interesting hint system.
• Nintendo is happy because they getting money from both sides.

Am I right?

 

[wRATH2x]

And something in Wrath2X's post got my eye . . .


You kinda remind me of people who blame "low damage" as one of the reason's TP was "too easy" yet they take every heart up-grade they can find and look past the fact that you can go the whole game with out heart upgrades well using only wooden sheilds (which brake, leaving you with out a bloke action) and never talk to Midna when she wants to give you clues.

Yeah, Im pretty sure people will bash LoZ Wii for being too easy because they don't have the self control to not click on the hint button when they are confused with something. I, myself, refuse to call TP easy because I had to go on the web and find out how to do the last part of the air temple puzz and I KNOW it would have taken afew hours to figure out (and I didn't play it as hard as I could have. Took all the heart up grades I could + got the best Sheild + talked to Midna alot (I liked her voice so I did it for that .. but still ) and so on).


Fun and accomplishment arnt the same thing to me. I could do something REALLY hard to do (like super math) and come out of it with a feeling of accomplishment (YAY!) but, more so, feel like I just wasted my time doing it. But at the same time I could sit down for hours drawing and feel both accomplishment and enjoyment.

Alright man let me just say I took every heart upgrade I got without complaining,took the chance to read Midnas hints every time she has some,I used guides on some puzzles(the only Zelda I beat without the internet is possibly,oh wait tri-force hunting),and never stuck to wooden sheilds because thats just stupid.

Let me just say I love TP,LOVE IT!!,its my second favorite Zelda,I beat it plenty of times since I got it,its my favorite game on the Wii and possibly this generation,my only complaint was that it was easier than past Zeldas(except for Wind Waker,loved it but too fucking easy),but I looked through that and still loved it.

The thing is it guides you through the game holding your hand sometimes,I didnt like that,but this new patent goes leaps and bounds in that regard,its not guiding you,its basically telling you.

Black-Wind I like your posts and I like arguing with you,and this is basically why I came to GAF,to have discussions with posters who agree and disagree with me.

Anyway,I presume you understand the patent fully,so is their anyway to play with those options off because if so Im no longer against the idea,unless it becomes a main feature in most games which I hope not.