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[Trup1aya]

No, this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the market works.
Literally every other storefront competes with Steam on 'rates' very easily.

Anyone can sell Steamkeys directly from a games publisher, including the publisher themselves if you want to make sure that the entirety of the purchase price goes directly to the publisher. Or give a percentgae to charity with every purchase, as Humble does.
Steam does not make a penny from any sale not made directly through Steams storefront.

Conversely, MS - whose storefront you are championing as "competition" - is the sole distributor, supplier and vendor of all UWA keys. It is entirely impossible to create a UWA without using MS made tools, going through MS terms and conditions, and going through MS certification for every release.

The only party that unquestionably benefits from UWA is MS.
By using Steamworks, any software company can create, update, and sell products without ever paying Valve.

e:
Let's not pretend these exact points of comparison that work wholly against MSs favour haven't been brought up a hundred times in UWA topics now either.

Show me where I'm "championing" anything LOL. Not by any stretch of the imagination. I've described this as situation as nothing other than a cluster fuck. Let's get that straight.

Secondly, all of the other avenues for distribution, doesn't change the fact that good ole' fashioned Steam Is the dominant distribution method. a publisher using steamkeys is completely different from a publisher offering a storefront perks inexchange for the increased visibility storefronts provide.

Lastly, you need to separate your hatred for Microsoft from what my comment actually was. Not an exuse for MS' gaming efforts, rather an exploration as to why a 3rd party would consider making this venture.

 

[benny_a]

Are you suggesting you can't put Win32 software onto the Windows Store?

Can we talk about COD:IW & COD:MWR in this thread please.

Let me repeat once more:
Are you suggesting that the internal moaning at Activision for the Win10 store version is because they forgot they didn't have to do the additional work after all?

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I believe in Benny.

 

[JaggedSac]

Can we talk about COD:IW & COD:MWR in this thread please.

Let me repeat once more:
Are you suggesting that the internal moaning at Activision for the Win10 store version is because they forgot they didn't have to do the additional work after all?

I didn't suggest anything. I stated a fact. What you want is conjecture about contacts, money, etc, etc,.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Can we talk about COD:IW & COD:MWR in this thread please.

Let me repeat once more:
Are you suggesting that the internal moaning at Activision for the Win10 store version is because they forgot they didn't have to do the additional work after all?

It seems hes just stating that Win32 applications are deployable on the Windows Store. If true (I assume it is?) then it could mean that Acti just didn't deem it worth it to tweak the Win32 version to get around the cross play restriction.

 

[RexNovis]

Just from this page.

It very well could be the case. Because not a whole lot else makes any kind of sense. But technically we have no proof this is the case.

Microsoft has blamed Activision saying they could have implemented it but chose not to. We have to wait for an Activision comment if any comes.

Fair enough but I disagree. I'm not really seeing the incentive for them to pay Activision to release on Win 10. I could certainly see them offer Activision a better revenue split than steam as an incentive but paying them seems a bit far fetched.

In that sense fine print and/or XBL mechanics seem like a far more likely cause for lack of steam cross play. So far the only game that has done cross play with steam was rocket league and by all accounts it was a very bare bones implementation with cross platform players being unable to communicate via anything but emotes/text. Couple that with the lack of any sort of PS cross platform play despite them being a proponent of cross platform play with PC for 2 gens now and it just seems far more likely that there are details about XBL cross play that we are not privy to be that requirements/stipulations or technical hurdles. Unfortunately due to NDAs it's unlikely we will ever know the exact details involved.

 

[Dyson Industries]

It seems hes just stating that Win32 applications are deployable on the Windows Store. If true (I assume it is?) then it could mean that Acti just didn't deem it worth it to tweak the Win32 version to get around the cross play restriction.

Which is a bollocking of Microsoft's own making. Why would anyone spend the extra money to support an also-ran storefront and delay patches on the platforms that actually matter in order to maintain parity for said also-ran storefront?

Parity. Hmm.

 

[LordRaptor]

Secondly, all of the other avenues for distribution, doesn't change the fact that good ole' fashioned Steam Is the dominant distribution method. a publisher using steamkeys is completely different from a publisher offering a storefront perks inexchange for the increased visibility storefronts provide.

No, why?
Amazon / Humble / GMG / CDKeys / G2A / Publisher owned storefront / Kinguin / et al selling keys is not substantively any different from Target / Walmart / GameStop / Amazon / et al selling console retail copies, and publishers are just as free to make storefront exclusivity deals at their own discretion.

In regions where PC retail still exists these exact deals are still made.

Lastly, you need to separate your hatred for Microsoft from what my comment actually was. Not an exuse for MS' gaming efforts, rather an exploration as to why a 3rd party would consider making this venture.

Apart from trying to deflect specific criticisms of one specific part of MS onto a generalist "haters gonna hate" in an attempt to undermine them - and for what I know for a fact is not the first time I have told you this, I do not hate MS - what MS offers is substantively worse for any third party than what Steam offers, as well as being substantively worse for the consumer.

So again, why defend the indefensible?

 

[VolticArchangel]

Are you guys seeing a 19% off on all digital SKU's on the Windows store, compared to the game's MSRP on Steam?

Also, PSA: This game is 149GB (digital legacy edition w/ MW:R, 93GB for IW alone) on the Windows store. So, like all other Windows 10 store titles, if there is an update/patch for the game(s) anytime post release, you should have another 149GB (93 GB if it's IW alone) of spare space left on your HDD/partition where you're installing the game, for the update to even start downloading. The other alternative is to delete and download the whole game, 149GB (or 93GB), again.

On steam, it's 74.2GB for IW and around 144GB with MW:R. Updates in future, would be applied traditionally, either auto-download or manually on the client. No 2X HDD space required.

 

[LewieP]

Do we actually know whether Microsoft allow Steamworks multiplayer on their App Store?

They've said that they support cross-platform multiplayer, but how do we know that they're not referring to using the Xbox multiplayer backend on other platforms, rather than the other way around?

Are there any games that currently have Steamworks based multiplayer available via the Windows 10 App Store?

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Which is a bollocking of Microsoft's own making. Why would anyone spend the extra money to support an also-ran storefront and delay patches on the platforms that actually matter in order to maintain parity for said also-ran storefront?

Parity. Hmm.

No one here is arguing the restrictions. But the tools do exist to get around them. Too many in this thread are making assumptions without any proof/facts.

We know for a fact, that cross play exists on Windows Store games. It seems we also know Win32 apps can be deployed on the Windows Store. We also have Microsoft saying Activision could implement it if they want.

Right now, these seem to be the only things we know for certain. Everything else is assumptions and educated guessing. We don't even know what the cost/effort would be to implement it. Right now we just know we have 2 companies with shitty records in terms of practices in the gaming industry and they're both in some part indirectly or directly responsible for this debacle.

No one here is arguing the quality of the Windows Store or Microsoft's decisions pertaining to it.

Do we actually know whether Microsoft allow Steamworks multiplayer on their App Store?

They've said that they support cross-platform multiplayer, but how do we know that they're not referring to using the Xbox multiplayer backend on other platforms, rather than the other way around?

Are there any games that currently have Steamworks based multiplayer available via the Windows 10 App Store?

Good question. Was going to ask myself.

Thus far, the only games released on both Windows Store and Steam didn't have multiplayer to test this. CoD is the first I think.

 

[Bsigg12]

Are you guys seeing a 19% off on all digital SKU's on the Windows store, compared to the game's MSRP on Steam?

Also, PSA: This game is 149GB (digital legacy edition w/ MW:R, 93GB for IW alone) on the Windows store. So, like all other Windows 10 store titles, if there is an update/patch for the game(s) anytime post release, you should have another 149GB (93 GB if it's IW alone) of spare space left on your HDD/partition where you're installing the game, for the update to even start downloading. The other alternative is to delete and download the whole game, 149GB (or 93GB), again.

On steam, it's 74.2GB for IW and around 144GB with MW:R. Updates in future, would be applied traditionally, either auto-download or manually on the client. No 2X HDD space required.

This shouldn't be the case since the last Store update. It should only need to download and install the new parts.

 

[Poimandres]

It'll be the latter. They'll no doubt take their ball and go home. Can't see them graciously admitting defeat and distributing their games through other services, despite making financial sense.

So close yet so far away. Urgh. I'd really love to play some Miscrosoft games on PC, but they sure make it difficult!

 

[LordRaptor]

Do we actually know whether Microsoft allow Steamworks multiplayer on their App Store?

W10 appstore certification requirements specifically forbid any third party digital vendor that is not MS themselves, and given you must be logged into Steam to use Steamworks APIs its probable that they don't.

10.8.1
You must use the Microsoft in-app purchase API to sell digital items or services that are consumed or used within your app. Your app may enable users to consume previously purchased digital content or services, but must not direct users to a purchase mechanism other than the Microsoft in-app purchase API.

Again - not a technical reason blocking it from happening, and inapplicable to Rocket League which is not sold via the W10 appstore.

 

[RexNovis]

W10 appstore certification requirements specifically forbid any third party digital vendor that is not MS themselves, and given you must be logged into Steam to use Steamworks APIs its probable that they don't.



Again - not a technical reason blocking it from happening, and inapplicable to Rocket League which is not sold via the W10 appstore.

Oh really? I thought Rocket League was on the Windows 10 store. If it's not than yea that basically eliminates the only example we had of an existing cross platform implementation with steam and makes the theory about MS fine print and regulations/rules about cross platform play with XBL being the driving factor in this decision look more and more likely. Hopefully we can get some vague developer insight similar to the stuff we saw with the NDAd indie publishing clauses. Seems like that's the only way we'll ever really know what the details are here.

 

[VolticArchangel]

This shouldn't be the case since the last Store update. It should only need to download and install the new parts.

The windows store version of GeOW 4 still asks for additional 80GB space since the TU was out. After the update Version 1607 (OS Build 14393.351) and even the store update, the issue still remains for many players who have installed the game on their Boot SSD's.

 

[Trup1aya]

No, why?
Amazon / Humble / GMG / CDKeys / G2A / Publisher owned storefront / Kinguin / et al selling keys is not substantively any different from Target / Walmart / GameStop / Amazon / et al selling console retail copies, and publishers are just as free to make storefront exclusivity deals at their own discretion.

In regions where PC retail still exists these exact deals are still made.



Apart from trying to deflect specific criticisms of one specific part of MS onto a generalist "haters gonna hate" in an attempt to undermine them - and for what I know for a fact is not the first time I have told you this, I do not hate MS - what MS offers is substantively worse for any third party than what Steam offers, as well as being substantively worse for the consumer.

So again, why defend the indefensible?

Again, show me where I defended anything...

You seem to have this issue where everything is either an attack or a defense... rather than a simple discussion.

If you can't see the difference between a publisher using a brand to get stores to compete for the RIGHT to sell their product vs a publisher self distributing, i don't know what to tell you.

I have said nothing about this particular offering actually being GOOD for anyone, so I have no idea why you feel the need to emphasis it's failings to me.

 

[LordRaptor]

Oh really? I thought Rocket League was on the Windows 10 store.

Rule of thumb; if it's not a mobile port or funded by MS, its not on the W10 appstore.
It's why most people suspect MS paid to get COD on there, because Activision would get more sales for a WiiU port.

 

[NullPointer]

A restriction of this kind should be spelled out on the Windows Store page for IW in large bold red font. Hell, there should be a damn modal popup that spells this out clearly and requires a customer to acknowledge it before buying. There's absolutely no good reason to expect a customer to assume this is the case.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The fact that there isn't "crossplay" between versions running on the same OS makes no sense to me.

 

[Trup1aya]

Oh really? I thought Rocket League was on the Windows 10 store. If it's not than yea that basically eliminates the only example we had of an existing cross platform implementation with steam and makes the theory about MS fine print and regulations/rules about cross platform play with XBL being the driving factor in this decision look more and more likely. Hopefully we can get some vague developer insight similar to the stuff we saw with the NDAd indie publishing clauses. Seems like that's the only way we'll ever really know what the details are here.

Why does Rocket league need to be on win10 store to Sustain the example?

The issue is that cross-play between XBL and Steamworks needs additional work... not that UWP - Steamworks requires additional work.

There are currently a handful (2?) of XBL games that work across networks. 1 is a W10 game, the other isn't.

 

[LordRaptor]

The fact that there isn't "crossplay" between versions running on the same OS makes no sense to me.

MS wanted to create a walled garden platform inside of an existing platform; this is the logical end result.

COD doesn't have cross platform play on any platform - that's the 'problem' here.

 

[Maintenance]

MS throwing Activision under the bus http://www.windowscentral.com/call-duty-coming-windows-store-not-without-some-drawbacks

To the surprise of no one.

 

[Drilbit777]

Making it not even cross play with xbox or other PC platforms is just a recipe for dead on arrival.

 

[SURGEdude]

Stuff like this makes the Windows Store look bad. So I'm happy. Fuck that shitty storefront.

Took me well over a terabyte of data before I finally got Gears installed.

 

[LukasTaves]

That sounds... Really stupid. The game should at least be made play anywhere then.

Do we actually know whether Microsoft allow Steamworks multiplayer on their App Store?

They've said that they support cross-platform multiplayer, but how do we know that they're not referring to using the Xbox multiplayer backend on other platforms, rather than the other way around?

Are there any games that currently have Steamworks based multiplayer available via the Windows 10 App Store?

Yeah, they explicitly said cross play is supported, devs can use steamworks even on their uwp version too.

 

[Armaros]

Oh really? I thought Rocket League was on the Windows 10 store. If it's not than yea that basically eliminates the only example we had of an existing cross platform implementation with steam and makes the theory about MS fine print and regulations/rules about cross platform play with XBL being the driving factor in this decision look more and more likely. Hopefully we can get some vague developer insight similar to the stuff we saw with the NDAd indie publishing clauses. Seems like that's the only way we'll ever really know what the details are here.

Rocket League is Steam for PC

 

[MUnited83]

That sounds... Really stupid. The game should at least be made play anywhere then.

Yeah, they explicitly said cross play is supported, devs can use steamworks even on their uwp version too.

No, they can't. They can use cross play with XBL that interacts with Steamworks, but they can't use steamworks by itself.

 

[Zedox]

Activision is dumb, cross-play with Steam at the least...I could understand Xbox but Jesus. Stupid.

Also, you can use Steamworks on UWAs. It has already been shown (by Microsoft themselves).

 

[Outlaw Torn]

The Windows Store versions have launched with a 20% discount.

Infinite Warfare - $48
Digital Legacy - $64
Digital Deluxe - $80

 

[LukasTaves]

MS wanted to create a walled garden platform inside of an existing platform; this is the logical end result.

COD doesn't have cross platform play on any platform - that's the 'problem' here.

It doesn't need to be another platform on PC, not because of the store or uwp at least.

It's more likely there was some deal between Ms and Activision to have a Xbox live enabled version and Act didn't bothered making that cross play, but that has nothing to do with uwp or the store, both allows games that supports only steam works for instance.

 

[MUnited83]

Activision is dumb, cross-play with Steam at the least...I could understand Xbox but Jesus. Stupid.

Also, you can use Steamworks on UWAs. It has already been shown (by Microsoft themselves).

You can't use steamworks with UWAs, unless that UWA is on Steam.

 

[wildfire]

Each and every one of you clowns previously stating this was bullshit:

Every last dry, spiky feather. Mmmm mmmm!

It's delicious serving so much crow.

 

[LukasTaves]

Rocket League isn't UWP on Windows or Xbox One (no games on Xbox One are actually UWP apps).

For now, because they ate still developing. Eventually all Xbox games will be required to be uwp

Conversely, MS - whose storefront you are championing as "competition" - is the sole distributor, supplier and vendor of all UWA keys. It is entirely impossible to create a UWA without using MS made tools, going through MS terms and conditions, and going through MS certification for every release.

This is false. You can create uwp applications without going through Ms certification. Any 3rd party valid certificate is permitted, and the option that allows installing uwp apps without a certificate is turned on by default (though it will give you a warning if the package is not signed).

 

[LukasTaves]

You can't use steamworks with UWAs, unless that UWA is on Steam.

Not true. Ms has explicitly said and demoed that steamworks games can be distributed on the win store (using Age of Empires 2HD as an example).

 

[LukasTaves]

No, they can't. They can use cross play with XBL that interacts with Steamworks, but they can't use steamworks by itself.

Yes they can.

So what we did is we took Age of Empires 2, you can see it pinned to the start menu.  Now this is the package you would get from Steam, where it’s available today.  And, in fact, if you watch, you’ll see the live tile turn and you’ll see the number of people that are actually playing this game live right now on Steamworks.  We have 5,223 players.
So what we did is we took the package from Steam, ran it through the converter, and turned it into a modern desktop application.
So let’s launch it to see how it runs.  You can see it launched.  Our splash screen.  Steamworks kicks up.  And here it is.
So we’re now running just as it would run if you bought it from Steam today.  Multiplayer is here.

http://news.microsoft.com/speeches/satya-nadella-and-terry-myerson-build-2016/#DfUHTHVUf54BZUfG.99

 

[Chobel]

Not true. Ms has explicitly said and demoed that steamworks games can be distributed on the win store (using Age of Empires 2HD as an example).

Age of Empires 2 HD is not on W10 store.

 

[MUnited83]

Not true. Ms has explicitly said and demoed that steamworks games can be distributed on the win store (using Age of Empires 2HD as an example).

Yes they can.



http://news.microsoft.com/speeches/satya-nadella-and-terry-myerson-build-2016/#DfUHTHVUf54BZUfG.99

Steamworks requires, as you can tell by the name, a steam account, and the steam client. MS isn't going to start packaging the Steam client with their game downloads any time soon.
Such a process would also give you access to the game in your Steam account , so the W10 would be completely irrelevant at that point.

 

[Schlorgan]

Is this thread still going? Surprised you guys still have more to talk about here.

 

[Head.spawn]

Is this thread still going? Surprised you guys still have more to talk about here.

This thread is going to pass the actual OT, isn't it?

 

[Schlorgan]

This thread is going to pass the actual OT, isn't it?

Plot twist: this thread is the real OT. :O

 

[Chobel]

This is false. You can create uwp applications without going through Ms certification. Any 3rd party valid certificate is permitted, and the option that allows installing uwp apps without a certificate is turned on by default (though it will give you a warning if the package is not signed).

I only recently started reading about UWP, and from what I read you have to sideload the app by yourself in every device if you're not planning to sell it in on the store. How easy is it to automate sideloading process?

 

[Gamezone]

MS throwing Activision under the bus http://www.windowscentral.com/call-duty-coming-windows-store-not-without-some-drawbacks

So it isn`t their fault?

 

[Bluth54]

I can't wait to see someone post screenshots of the online player population numbers for the Win 10 store versions.

 

[Pakoe]

Microsoft or Activision pls.
COD games already have a low playercount on PC, then you do shit like this.
Why.

 

[Gestault]

This seems like a dirtbag move and a real disservice to potential customers from the publisher.

 

[Deepo]

Ok, so I'm only interested in the single player, and the morbid curiosity got the better of me.

So I bought it on the Windows Store.

Will post impressions (after a cool 149GB download).

 

[Hektor]

Ok, so I'm only interested in the single player, and the morbid curiosity got the better of me.

So I bought it on the Windows Store.

Will post impressions (after a cool 149GB download).

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The idea that work has to be done and the existing mp code doesn't just work for the Windows Store version is baffling.
This is a UWP consequence right? That MS have set designs for app - server communication locked into the executable?

They kind of walked into this.
I'd guess the devs who got handed the specs were appalled. Somewhat surprised Acti didn't cancel the Windows Store version entirely, as they must have known they were sending a version / players who bought it tp die.
Perhaps a contract / getting a kick back?
If so, they should probably bite the bullet and implement it, for the good of the players who buy it there.

 

[holygeesus]

Ok, so I'm only interested in the single player, and the morbid curiosity got the better of me.

So I bought it on the Windows Store.

Will post impressions (after a cool 149GB download).

There are currently 150,000 people on the multiplayer leaderboard for the Xbox One version alone - id be interested to see how many both the PC versions have.