matrix-cat
Member
I love games without satisfying endings and lengthy wait times between entries! It worked out so well for Deus Ex Mankind Divided last year, right?
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Could Final Fantasy remake 7 greatly suffer from episodic release?
- Thread starter fireflame
- Start date
I understand what you are saying. But at the same time, your example isn't very good. In FF XV, you can fly the Regalia over the open world map by endgame.
I understand what you mean, though, which is that there will be reductions to the scope. However, if the episodic nature works like intended, there really won't be, because they can take smaller chunks of the game and expand on it. And you have to keep in mind, this is Final Fantasy, a series that is known to sell millions, and not Xenosaga, a somewhat risky venture for a game of unknown popularity (at the time).
It's hard to say what will happen until we get concrete evidence from the first game, which will no doubt surface closer to the actual release.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
It's kind of crazy how badly a thread title can misinform the public. Square Enix never said it was episodic, but a journalist or someone on Neogaf called it episodic in a thread title, and that word got burned into their memory and now 2 years later its still accepted to be true.
this is the kind of reaction they should probably be trying to avoid
A Link to the Past
Banned
No
I really, really hope development is going slow because t hey realized that episodic would make it a shitshow
I really, really hope development is going slow because t hey realized that episodic would make it a shitshow
Icyflamez96
Member
I just hope they do a complete version sometime afterwards. A version where it's all one game and the character progression spans throughout the whole thing. I dont know if thats what they're trying to do anyway but idk. (In regards to the character progression)
superNESjoe
Member
FF7 remake is going to suffer from being built in the current age Square dev environment, period.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It would be still a collection rather than one game due to how each game will have a specific introduction sequence, a full-blown ending sequence, probably even an ending song, etc.
Like the FFX|X-2 HD Remaster IMO.
How they handle the transition from one game to the next could certainly hurt the remake. Will they allow stats to be carried forward? Is it a clean slate with each release so anything you spent time leveling up is gone? How do they handle letting you go back to previous areas in old episodes. Will they let you or will they cut down the freedom of travel post airship.
yeah it'll fuck it up no matter what. cos either no stat carry over, in which case, bullshit, or stats do carry over and then they've gotta balance the game for theoretical newcomers as well which will make battles bogus and lose the sense of progression as new skill types and materia types come into play, etc.
so they should just do it as one game or not do it.
blankslatenator
Banned
I know 100% it's going to piss me off at least once
Shenmue III had to be announced to get funded. No way around it, so I'm not sure it's applicable when it comes to "announcing too early".
The Greek Freak
Member
I can't even think of a game besides Hitman that didn't suffer for being episodic.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It's no worse than the release schedule of the Star Wars sequel trilogy...
Green Mamba
Member
The Star Wars sequel trilogy wasn't a single cohesive movie that was split into three.
jobrro
Member
Eh Valve were saying making HL2 into episodes would allow them to release the games at a consistent and often schedule. They ended episode 2 on a cliffhanger then nothing.
Sonic 4 was OK but was Sonic 4 in name only. It didn't really feel right, but I don't think the physics were caused by being episodic. I don't think too many people were upset about not having a third episode of Sonic 4, whereas people are still talking about HL2:E3/HL3.
Hopefully FFVII remake doesn't suffer from either of these paths.
Edit: Well the HL2 path is somewhat impossible I guess unless people are unwilling to play the original.
Honey Bunny
Member
Have they said how many episodes it's going to be?
afternoon delight
Member
With SE, couldn't it very well go one of two ways?
1- The 'FF14 Realm Reborn fixed to perfection' model after initial blunders
2 - FF13 Trilogy of diminishing returns in sales, asset quality, importance, oh who gives a shit.
So there's hope they can learn if they underperform, or radically suck for a decade plus of studio efforts. Sounds par for modern SE.
1- The 'FF14 Realm Reborn fixed to perfection' model after initial blunders
2 - FF13 Trilogy of diminishing returns in sales, asset quality, importance, oh who gives a shit.
So there's hope they can learn if they underperform, or radically suck for a decade plus of studio efforts. Sounds par for modern SE.
Just completely different standards to even begin to compare tho...
You are wise, though the only thing I ask for is a Tactics release on PC better than current options.
Daffy Duck
Member
All this talk of three separate games (I admit I didn't know this as i just thought it was the game split up due to the amount of time it took) shows me just how incompetent the people handling this are, I mean the premise is simple take FF7 and make it pretty, it's that simple.
No need to do weird things with it, no need to inexplicably make it three games for no reason other than being stupid, just make it beautiful to look at and play and bingo.
I bet 98% of people in the wider gaming community will have seen FF7 REmake news and thought amazing can't wait to walk down memory lane, what they will
Actually get (because they seemingly incapable of communicating in some sort of modern language) is nothing what they expect.
Either that or it won't sell because nobody actually cares abou it.
Either way I'm really gutted about what I've discovered in this thread about this "project".
No need to do weird things with it, no need to inexplicably make it three games for no reason other than being stupid, just make it beautiful to look at and play and bingo.
I bet 98% of people in the wider gaming community will have seen FF7 REmake news and thought amazing can't wait to walk down memory lane, what they will
Actually get (because they seemingly incapable of communicating in some sort of modern language) is nothing what they expect.
Either that or it won't sell because nobody actually cares abou it.
Either way I'm really gutted about what I've discovered in this thread about this "project".
ArkhamFantasy
Member
They explained why they're doing it but gaf likes to act hysterical so they neglect to mention things like that.
If you're curious, they cant remake FF7 with PS4 graphics and release it for $60. There's too many unique locations and assets to create, the amount of work it would require would be insane. So they had two options
1.Cut significant amounts of content
2.Make multiple games out of it.
They went with route 2, you can be critical however, of them changing the combat and adding additional content to the games. (I think its pretty obvious we're getting a greatly expanded midgar, it doesnt make sense to built a huge city like that and be out of there in 5 hours like you are in the original game). That's just an example.
I'm personally very happy with what they're doing. This project is basically Nomura's original vision for Versus XIII but with Final Fantasy 7's story and characters.
Rumblebones
Banned
I don't understand how it could take them so long to remake a game that they have to split it into parts.
The Cartographer
Member
With time.
Hopefully, it's technically the base game (episode 1) with Subsequent episodes delivered as DLC expansions that require the base game. This will at least allow for a levelling system to carry from episode to episode and allow you to return to prior locations. This won't be an issue in my opinion, and the only frustration will be the wait between releases.
If the episodes are stand alone games (and I can play episode 1 on PS4 then episode 2 on Xbox, for example) then there will be no carrying over if stats/weapons/abilities/exp/Gil etc and that will be a damn shame.
If the episodes are stand alone games (and I can play episode 1 on PS4 then episode 2 on Xbox, for example) then there will be no carrying over if stats/weapons/abilities/exp/Gil etc and that will be a damn shame.
Daffy Duck
Member
I totally missed the plans they had for this game, I hadn't seen any other real news other than it was coming so had no idea about this.
I also never got into another FF game after 7 so have no idea what 13 is or the type of game it was.
If it's too much they shouldn't have said it was coming then to be honest, that's the stage I am at.
I also never got into another FF game after 7 so have no idea what 13 is or the type of game it was.
If it's too much they shouldn't have said it was coming then to be honest, that's the stage I am at.
Option 3. charge more for the full game.
NoctisVsStar
Member
No one would pay extra.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
People aren't going to pay 150 dollars or whatever they would need to justify the costs, and they dont want to go 10 years without a return on investment. So from a business point of view thats a terrible idea.
From an artistic point of view they dont want to spend another 5-10 years of their lives remaking the exact same game with better graphics. Kitase believes that Nomura and his team can make the game better, and when Square Enix's executives listened to Kitase's pitch, they obviously believed him or they would have said no.
AlexFlame116
Member
I just want it to be good and release quickly.
Nah....
Doctrine Dark
Member
I just don't understand how the story of FF7 could even be told in episodic form.
I can't think of any point that would be a satisfying end for the 1st episode. Maybe the battle with Jenova Life? That's the only point I could think of where it would make sense for it to end. I can't think of a time before that where it'd be feasible to end the episode.
Then have your characters that are created through your design (levels, weapons, materia, etc), though I suppose that could carry over to the next game as long as you have the save file.
The whole thing just seems problematic the more I think about it.
I can't think of any point that would be a satisfying end for the 1st episode. Maybe the battle with Jenova Life? That's the only point I could think of where it would make sense for it to end. I can't think of a time before that where it'd be feasible to end the episode.
Then have your characters that are created through your design (levels, weapons, materia, etc), though I suppose that could carry over to the next game as long as you have the save file.
The whole thing just seems problematic the more I think about it.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
Oh that's cute, you think we'll ever get episode 1.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
When they get out of Midgar for the first time. Just make Rufus the final boss at the end of the bike/car/helicopter chase.
LastOne2100
Member
I'm definitely concerned about the episodic nature. But I think it would be possible to handle well also.
Either way I'm 100% in no matter what they do *shrug*.
Either way I'm 100% in no matter what they do *shrug*.
decoyplatypus
Member
There was no way SE was going to build a game of FF7's scale/# of unique assets with modern AAA production standards for a single, non-subscription release. Dividing the original game's content into multiple episodes may not result in a product that feels much like the original, and it may introduce all kinds of new complications, but I suspect people would be pretty horrified by what a single-release FF7R would have looked like in 2018-19.
I think the data issues is the least of our worries with cloud saves and all being a thing now. Importing save data should be simple even across generations.
AlexFlame116
Member
Okay this scares me. If the same team isn't handling the other parts then it has the potential to go extremely off hill.
That gives me bad XIII vibes.
I hate cliffhangers that span a year+. I hate TV shows that do that, and I hate when games do it, and games take much more planning and preparation and financial stability.
See the ending of Xenoblades X ? It pissed me off to no end, because the game didn't get enough success and we'll never know what's next.
And writers, technology, financial stability, directors, or just many decision-makers, will change between each episode. That will unavoibadly affect the continuity of the story.
It's a like a TV show that has a great first series, then signs for 3+ more seasons with no idea where it's going.
I'd rather wait 5 or 10 more years and get the full thing.
I hate cliffhangers that span a year+. I hate TV shows that do that, and I hate when games do it, and games take much more planning and preparation and financial stability.
See the ending of Xenoblades X ? It pissed me off to no end, because the game didn't get enough success and we'll never know what's next.
And writers, technology, financial stability, directors, or just many decision-makers, will change between each episode. That will unavoibadly affect the continuity of the story.
It's a like a TV show that has a great first series, then signs for 3+ more seasons with no idea where it's going.
I'd rather wait 5 or 10 more years and get the full thing.
Fredrik
Member
You're right that was a bad example. It just annoys me that we get to hear about games so early on now, FF7R, Shenmue 3, GTSports, GoW, etc. 4 years after the launch and 1 year after the first hardware upgrade we're soon getting GTSports, Shenmue 3 might not even arrive this generation for all we know, FF7R is split up into episodes and might not all end up on PS4, GoW arrives soon unless there is a delay. I get that the hype for upcoming games is what sells the console early on but I think it has gotten out of hand tbh. Within a year of the release is enough, unveil at E3 and release it at the latest at the start of next year. Why do I need to know about games before that?
The incremental release and the possible delays etc. aside, I'm mostly concerned about whether we will be able to travel the entire game world as a continuous whole when the last episode has rolled by.
I have no idea how they will make that work in a model where people could conceivably only buy the last episode for some reason and try to travel to Midgar for example (apart from a pop-up when approaching the city citing they need to buy episode 1?). Ideally we'd get a full game when all episodes are bought or something.
I have no idea how they will make that work in a model where people could conceivably only buy the last episode for some reason and try to travel to Midgar for example (apart from a pop-up when approaching the city citing they need to buy episode 1?). Ideally we'd get a full game when all episodes are bought or something.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
What's sure is that FFVII Remake is not episodic.
I think It depends on the conclusion, If a game has a beginning, Middle and end then its a trilogy, duology etc, each game is a complete experience. If the game ends in the Middle of a story or part of It its episodic.
If ff7 Will be a trilogy depends of the direction they Will have to change some things in the story.
If ff7 Will be a trilogy depends of the direction they Will have to change some things in the story.
Fredrik
Member
I'd say that Mass Effect trilogy is three different games cleverly connected through some NPC related story choices.
FF7R is one game, one classic story, chopped up in smaller "episodes" because of the storage and dev time needed to remake it properly 20 years after the original release. I honestly don't get how they're supposed to do it unless they change the main story and put restrictions on the map. Will you be able to go wherever you want whenever you want without bumping into some "you need episode 3 to get access to this area" notifications? And will the price for each "episode" be a full $60 release or smaller $20 releases?