Well don't bother explaining why...
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Cult County (Renegade Kid) KS (Wii U, PS4, XO, PS3, Steam, Vita, no 3DS), 580k
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
- Start date
Well don't bother explaining why...
thedarknight87
Banned
Its precisely because of the lack of the tech pedigree that they can't support 3DS. The Vita has enough under the hood to brute force the game, but you need technical wizardry to make an outdated console like 3DS sing.
Astral/H3X
Member
Well, given they are doing a Wii U version, I'll forgive them. As long as I get to play it. Shame about the 3DS though...
CamHostage
Member
Maybe, but honestly, the Nintendo portable fanbase has only a small minority of "hardcore" fans who follow interesting developers like Renegade Kid, and of those people, I would imagine that most are a savvy bunch that understand that developing games ain't for fun and that supporting Nintendo platforms and trying to compete with Mario and Zelda is something they do for the love and the challenge as much as the money. Sometimes that means these guys have to also go seek the money elsewhere. As long as they come back, as long as their passion comes out in their work for their most adoring audience, I hope this generation is understanding of an open relationship in a gaming marriage.
Renegade Kid has already put Mutant Mudds and Dementium and other stuff elsewhere, so people shouldn't be expecting to-the-death loyalty. And they have promising stuff (like Treasurenauts and Moon Chronicles) supporting their love of 3DS. Plus, the Cult County 3DS demo wasn't exactly in such a state of amazing spectacularity that we can see how it just HAD to continue on that platform.
It's plenty possible that they are misjudging their market, that the reason The Ward has fans is because it only was on DS and the other audiences will not care to have a Renegade Kid production (Dementium II HD didn't exactly light fires.)
Well, luckily for you, the same company you're rejecting is the company that is coming to the rescue with Moon Chronicles. If that project and that engine prove strong (which isn't boding well according to the first trailer, as I was itching for Halo-to-Halo Anniversary levels of improvement from a team that really digs into hardware metal, and Moon Chronicles isn't that,) hopefully we'll see iterations of it for new 3DS shooters.
I wouldn't at all go that far. If you want to assign blame, though, we might have to put blame on the middleware contracting support of Nintendo, as I imagine getting a project into Unity was a priority for Renegade Kid. I'm not sure what performance would be on 3DS with Unity or UE or CryEngine Mobile or Frostbite Go or any of these other development tools (the system has a particular hardware design that might not be friendly to kitchen sink engines, although Framework MT is one of the few multiplatform engines on it and it has performed 3DS wonders,) but we do already know what support looks like without these engines.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Okay? That doesn't excuse the fact that you're narrowly pigeonholing the developers for no real logical reason, and getting defensive when they defy your arbitrary assignment.
Renegade Kid just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about portable culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is on PC where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over on portables, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the portable public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Cult County for any system, nor will they purchase Moon Chronicles. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Renegade Kid has alienated an entire market with this move.
Renegade Kid, publicly apologize and cancel Cult Country for consoles/PC or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
That's not how constraint works, though. Okay, they're not tech wizards, all their stuff is inefficient and looks bad? So what? The point is they're trying to make a game and they can't make it work on 3DS. That someone else might have been able to make it work on 3DS is sort of besides the point. They can't, so they won't.
And the way to solve that from Nintendo's perspective is to make a more powerful system.
....as a separate game entirely, rebuilt from scratch.
They wouldn't be leaving the platform out if it was strong enough to support the game as is.
outunderthestars
Banned
As soon as I saw the thread title, I knew that the vast majority of posts would have nothing to do with the game itself.
I backed the game, and am looking forward to seeing more of it.
I backed the game, and am looking forward to seeing more of it.
UncleSporky
Member
I don't think so. I've bought a lot of ugly games, or weird games, or low budget games that I wouldn't otherwise give the time of day to, just because they're portable. I probably wouldn't buy a game with the graphics of Mario Kart DS on PC, but I'd play it on a DS.
I don't even play very many first person shooters, but I bought Dementium on DS and enjoyed it because of the novelty, and seeing what they could eke out of the DS's power level. And it was still surprisingly effective, a neat little game. I wouldn't buy it on PC, with good reason, as you've seen in others' statements about the game here. It's not great, and I've got a lot of other games I would sooner play on PC.
I like being able to play portable games, and I like the 3D effect, so I make some concessions there. I don't have to do that on PC.
CamHostage
Member
I used to consider them to be, although that was partly because of a specific set of skills applied to a specific platform. RK's core crew came from the Acclaim school of N64 programming economy, and that paid off handsomely on the meager DS chipset. As they have gone on, that lo-fi mastery has lost its usefulness; luckily, they have had other skills to tap into and have become quite proficient 2D game designers (and I'm not sure they'll ever get the kind of money needed to attempt something tech-sexy again anyway, whatever Cult County proves to be) so they survive and thrive by being smart rather than being wizards.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I think you're assuming this game will be ugly or would otherwise be not worth anyone's time if it weren't for the novelty as a 3DS tech demo. I can't say I agree with that assessment, if only because we simply don't have enough information.
But even operating under those assumptions, I still don't understand why you'd be willing to put up with a shitty game on one platform but not another. That's just utterly baffling to me.
thedarknight87
Banned
The fact is even if Unity supported 3DS, I doubt it would be wise to do a direct port of the Vita code base. The 3DS has a weird architecture, the CPU is piss poor (for ex. the first Android phone I bought way back in 2010 could run circles around it) and the GPU is atleast 2 generations below the Power SGX 543MP4+ (which is a last generation mobile GPU) used in the Vita. The 3DS would need a bespoke heavily modified and optimized variant of the game running on a custom engine. The advantage of supporting Vita is that it should be relatively straightforward porting the game for Android and IOS, giving further monetizing avenues to the devs.
Get Deus Ex and play i as a shooter
But seriously, Deus Ex DC is really good on WiiU
UncleSporky
Member
Well for one thing, I don't play shitty games.
Are you really serious, you don't understand why anyone would ever play a game with worse production values than on another platform? That basically eliminates all handhelds from being valid gaming devices.
doctorblurg
Banned
I really like the setting for this game I wish I had some money to back it but I just can't at the moment. I'd buy it day one on my vita when it releases though.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
If you're making the argument that portable games are inherently inferior than home console games, I'm sorry but it will fall on deaf ears.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
UncleSporky
Member
No, he's the one making it. Like I said, I don't play shitty games. I've got a huge Steam library and a huge 3DS library. I play games that may be graphically worse but give me an overall better experience, personally, because I can play them in 3D and on a handheld.
Some games are a better fit on a given platform. Like I said before, when I sit down to play a game on PC, this wouldn't be one of those games...but I am interested on 3DS.
TheGoddamn
Member
I've talked about Moon Chronicles in subsequent posts, but yes, your reason for not being excited for Moon Chronicles is also part of why I'd forgotten that it was a thing that exists.
I laughed.
---
The amount of debate this is getting is making me fairly optimistic about Renegade Kid as a whole. If they have this many fans and supporters, then they may just branch out well. However, their past history with a multiplatform game does not suggest this at all. Mutant Mudds sales were highest on the 3DS, and of the late ports-- Wii U, PS3, Vita, PC-- the game sold more on the Wii U than the latter three systems combined. And it sold more on the 3DS than it did on the Wii U.
However, Mutant Mudds is a platformer, so that could have been a factor in its popularity with Nintendo platforms. Cult County is in another genre altogether, and we'll see if this gamble pays off. I hope it will-- RK needs more love
especially now that they've lost billions of loyalists with this announcement
PhoenixSFT
Member
CamHostage
Member
Heh! The fact that you feel you have to explain to Neo-freaking-GAF the passions of "portable culture" proves that your vision of this fervent fanbase might not as populated or powerful as you think it is...
Maybe you are joking, but look, 3DS fans: WayForward is bigger than ever, and its best work is always on portables. Shin'en went from being a "portable developer" to being a "Nintendo developer" and their console products are just as respected as their 3DS games. And Renegade Kid is still doing important work on 3DS, including Treasurenauts, which I have heard great, great things about. Portable fans appreciate the support, but they'd be foolish to bite the hand that feeds them when there are relatively few hands (especially those not wearing white gloves or a Titan's Mitt) being offered them.
And both of our reasoning for not falling out of our socks at seeing Moon Chronicles (although I'm still excited to get it, it may be less bleeding-edge than I had hoped but FPS and 60fps on a portable are always good things) is why I'm regretfully accepting that Cult County is traveling elsewhere and may never see 3DS. On DS, Renegade Kid did polygonal worlds really well within the confines of the system, but on 3DS, that tech has not matched up and they have faired much better with 2D. The only reason I wanted and still want Cult County on 3DS is because it's becoming increasingly clear that nobody else will make a game like Cult County on 3DS...
Then again, the tech demo UncleSporky shared of the 3DS engine looked much better than I remembered it and obviously better than the screenshots led on. So their 3D work on 3DS may still stand out if given the chance to shine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTB4ECm2zDo
Really all that needs to be said in response to the 3ds fans butthurt itt. I mean you're asking them to butcher their game just so you can play a hypothetical 3ds version which wouldn't even work due to the hardware contraints, which is why the canned the 3ds version in the first place.
I mean do you not realize how fucking absurd that is? Seriously now, some of the responses in this thread almost border on parody of the archetypical console warrior.
For kids!
SwiftDeath
Member
You realize that's a take on a Gaf meme? Suggesting the poster is being entirely sarcastic
GhostTrick
Banned
Of course, that's a way to solve it, but seriously, I'd be curious to see in what way this game is supposed to be ambitious. What baffles me the most is that even after announcing it 1 year ago, they don't have anything to show. The point is that sure, it would've been easier if 3DS was more powerfull. But there's also the fact that Renegade Kid aren't good at using the hardware strengh. Their precedent output blatantly show this.
Yes, which is why I said it's all that needs to be said about 3DSgaf having a hissyfit over this game not coming to the system, as it's a parody that highlights just how ridiculous they are acting.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I retired from making threads awhile ago, but feel free to use it whenever, haha.
as long as it stays on NeoGaf... always make me nervous when my name pops up on other places
I realize this is kind of a random topic to go on a rant!
But I'm pretty random in general.
On topic, I'm a fan of Jools and while I don't support Kickstarter, I'll gladly buy (probably Wii U) when it launches.
UncleSporky
Member
I just want a game at least as good as Moon, which is possible since 3DS is getting a port of Moon.
A game that looks like this, y'know?
A game can't really be butchered if it's not made yet. I don't want them to make a game with a bunch of extra features and then cut them out so it will fit on 3DS. I want whatever they were originally planning to be put on 3DS, which I'm sure would've been good.
You know what I mean? In an alternate universe where this kickstarter never happened and the game just came out on 3DS, I doubt it would be called "butchered." It'd just be as is.
SwiftDeath
Member
Upon rereading your post I understand what you meant and now have no idea how I came to my conclusions. My apologies, must've read it too fast
Are people seriously criticizing them for not supporting 3DS? I love my 3DS as much as everyone else, RK usually puts stuff out for it, but the simple fact right now is that their building a console game using Unity. Unity doesn't support 3DS. It's as simple as that, really. It's not them trying to alienate their fanbase (who aren't exclusive to 3DS, anyway, seeing as they released Mutant Mudds for a bunch of platforms).
Unity gives them all those platforms out of the box. So that's what they are doing. 360, Unity supports, but licensing is tough and expensive, so it's a strech goal. 3DS would basically require either a) a from-the-ground-up port or b) Unity support for 3DS.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing this on my Wii U. I hope they do some gamepad integration somehow. I've always wanted more gamepad survival horror stuff after ZombiU.
Unity gives them all those platforms out of the box. So that's what they are doing. 360, Unity supports, but licensing is tough and expensive, so it's a strech goal. 3DS would basically require either a) a from-the-ground-up port or b) Unity support for 3DS.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing this on my Wii U. I hope they do some gamepad integration somehow. I've always wanted more gamepad survival horror stuff after ZombiU.
But not this game, due to technology constraints.
If you want Moon 2 then go beg for Moon 2. Don't come in here and tell them they don't have the right to make a game that isn't constrained to 128 MBs of RAM and one that doesn't support their engine of choice. You're not entitled to make that choice for them, and it's pretty childish to even suggest that they should have done otherwise.
Problem being is that this is the game that they were originally planning, and as they were going through preproduction it became obvious the 3DS wasn't going to cut it, so they did *exactly* what you outlined in the second post and canned the 3DS version and moved development to other platforms that could handle it.
Problem being we live in this universe, and in this universe they decided not to cut down the game in order to squeeze it onto the 3DS, and no matter of backtracking and talks of alternate dimensions is going to change that fact.
'Tis all good mate. Happens to everyone from time to time
UncleSporky
Member
Oh, I'm not trying to suggest that they should've done otherwise. As I've been saying all along, the choices they've made have led me to not back this project, that's all. I would buy a 3DS version, but they're not making one, so that's fine.
Yeah, and I'm not too worried about it, because it's becoming obvious that their kickstarter isn't going to cut it either, so maybe they should've thought a little more about the best way to develop this game. If your ambitious vision outstrips your funds, maybe it is time to scale back.
It's a shame because I do support RK and wish them every success.
CamHostage
Member
That might have to be how die-hard Renegade Kids fans have to take it, that while one neglected (semi-neglected? there are no shooters on 3DS but can we really call Nintendo portables "neglected"?) market loses out on a project, another more needy crowd (with some cross-over, actually) is getting the kind of game it craves.
March of the Crabs
Member
Backed! Not sure whether to go PS4 or Wii U, but regardless I'm stoked.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Just concept art and living off past games....oh the humanity
TheGoddamn
Member
I'm glad Moon Chronicles is 60 FPS. I was shocked that ATV Wild Ride 3D was 30 (DS was 60), and it's nowhere near the graphical step up that Moon Chronicles seems to be.
There may be something I'm missing, but hardcastlemccormick was joking. It's the ol' FFXIII standby.
In any case, I do hope that they meet their goal. Their cancelling the 3DS version and announcing it for everything else won't do them any favors, considering that Mutant Mudds on Nintendo systems sold at least twice the combined sales of the game on non-Nintendo platforms. The survival horror genre could prove different, though, and it is coming to Wii U, so there's definitely some (traditional) overlap there.
It is strange that they don't have any in-game footage to show. Perhaps it hasn't changed from the original 3DS version, and they really are using Unity simply for its ease of use (and ubiquity) as opposed to the proprietary RK engine that they invented, but isn't quite up to standard for more modern games.
Yeah, that's kind of how I'm seeing it. The Wii U needs good games right now. RK has proven it can make good games for Nintendo consoles. I'm excited.
Meesh
Member
Well, I for one am happy just knowing these guys are still making games and haven't gone bankrupt/closed shop. So cheers for that, keep doing what they believe in I say.
Second, I love RK games and although I'm used to seeing them on my trusty portable, I'm pretty fucking jazzed they're getting into home consoles. I have faith they'll deliver a great horror experience, regardless of platform.
Third, I doubt they frequent GAF, but if they happen to be upon this thread...I just wanted to add, what's up with that KS vid? I appreciate what the message is and I'm a fan, but you didn't give us much to chew on, especially for us nuts who enjoy speculating about monsters, setting, story...there's just this wee bit of art...I'm gonna back you guys anyways, just saying I like being teased with real teasers
So cheers for that, keep doing what they believe in I say.Second, I love RK games and although I'm used to seeing them on my trusty portable, I'm pretty fucking jazzed they're getting into home consoles. I have faith they'll deliver a great horror experience, regardless of platform.
Third, I doubt they frequent GAF, but if they happen to be upon this thread...I just wanted to add, what's up with that KS vid? I appreciate what the message is and I'm a fan, but you didn't give us much to chew on, especially for us nuts who enjoy speculating about monsters, setting, story...there's just this wee bit of art...I'm gonna back you guys anyways, just saying I like being teased with real teasers
You're so funny. As it stands, 580.000 is a lot to ask for and I don't think Renegade Kid has the name to pull it off. Their kickstarter didn't even show anything worthwhile like gameplay. I only see one screenshot and some artwork. They probably wouldn't make the goal even with the 3DS. It's just on top of that they also have left their 3DS fanbase behind so it will be even harder to reach that 580.000.
And my arbitrary assigment of them as Nintendo handheld developers was more a surprise that they did cancel the announced 3DS version after being a poster boy for the Nintendo handhelds. Just like I was surprised when Insomniac started working on an exclusive for Microsoft.
UncleSporky
Member
The kickstarter does seem kind of odd. Are RK really in financial trouble, and/or do they need this money to be able to make the game? How were they able to secure funding to make past games, especially their self-published ones? Is the KS just to be able to make the game more quickly than otherwise?
They talk a lot about how kickstarter gives them total creative freedom, but they self-published Mutant Mudds on all platforms. I assume ATV 3D was also self-published and I think Moon is going to be too. If this game would also be digital, then couldn't they also self-publish it? There aren't any barriers to creative freedom.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Mutant Mudds was a 2D platformer with 20 levels, and ATV 3D and Moon Chronicles were both remakes of existing DS games. It takes more than whatever those took to self-publish an ambitious, cross-platform, new IP console FPS. Now we can see how much more.
UncleSporky
Member
Yeah, I suppose. So what about Dementium, Dementium 2, Moon, and ATV on DS? I thought publishers mostly handled the relationship between the developer, the console manufacturer, and retailers, funding things like game cases and cart printing. Do they actually fund the whole thing? Did Gamecock give them a few hundred K to make Dementium?
Yup
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Yes, I believe they fund the developers in exchange for the IP, amongst other things.