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Dai Gyakuten Saiban (The Great Ace Attorney) Import Thread | Eat your fish and chips
- Thread starter GSR
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PreyingShark
Member
Yeah, Case 3 was great. I think it's a strong contender for "Best Case 3 in the Series". It starts off pretty standard but when it gets going it's awesome.
I'll second MagnetMan's impressions for episode 3 (and episode 2) but I've got to write my own take on episode 3 as well.
The jury system, while ultimately mechanically not all that different from an existing feature (PLvsPW's testimony-vs-testimony moments), in terms of atmosphere and story breathes a ton of life into the court proceedings. The jurors may not be named, but they all have their own characters, and they all want to speak their mind. They really will change their vote at a moment's notice, and when they do it provides a very literal sense that the trial has just turned in one direction or another. And props to the writing team - that could easily become irritating, with too much time spent on the jurors changing their minds, but those moments felt well-paced and enhanced the trial rather than adding to it. Also? Great camera work in the courtroom.
As before, the cast of characters is great; while one or two of the witnesses are a bit thin, you always get that in an Ace Attorney game sooner or later, and all of them are charming and well-designed enough to be enjoyable nevertheless. The villain of the case is stellar, without going into any detail. van Zieks is a little opaque at the moment, but that's intentional - and he shows notably less "weakness" or "reaction" than other prosecutors, which reinforces the idea that this guy is an enigma. I'm sure the game will flesh him out a bit in the cases to come.
The mystery presented is very much one in the spirit of turnabout - when the trial starts, there really doesn't seem like any way out for Ryuunosuke, and any progress you make takes work. It also kept me stumped pretty far throughout - even when I thought I had something, those theories turned out to be wrong.
The case also did something that I've seen in the other episodes (so this is more of a whole-game praise): it didn't ignore the past episodes when it came to the main characters. Ryuunosuke and Susato's actions and feelings were clearly influenced by the previous two chapters, and having started episode 4, that builds off what happens here. Compared to past games in the series, where there would be months between cases and minimal emotional carryover except when convenient (Turnabout Samurai never really touches on Mia's death, right?), it's a lovely change of pace and makes the game flow better.
Big old spoiler impressions:
Now, all this comes with the asterisk that I've only just played the case, and past experience has taught me that I'm usually much more generous to a case shortly after playing it than I am in the long run. But it was a very memorable episode.
The jury system, while ultimately mechanically not all that different from an existing feature (PLvsPW's testimony-vs-testimony moments), in terms of atmosphere and story breathes a ton of life into the court proceedings. The jurors may not be named, but they all have their own characters, and they all want to speak their mind. They really will change their vote at a moment's notice, and when they do it provides a very literal sense that the trial has just turned in one direction or another. And props to the writing team - that could easily become irritating, with too much time spent on the jurors changing their minds, but those moments felt well-paced and enhanced the trial rather than adding to it. Also? Great camera work in the courtroom.
As before, the cast of characters is great; while one or two of the witnesses are a bit thin, you always get that in an Ace Attorney game sooner or later, and all of them are charming and well-designed enough to be enjoyable nevertheless. The villain of the case is stellar, without going into any detail. van Zieks is a little opaque at the moment, but that's intentional - and he shows notably less "weakness" or "reaction" than other prosecutors, which reinforces the idea that this guy is an enigma. I'm sure the game will flesh him out a bit in the cases to come.
The mystery presented is very much one in the spirit of turnabout - when the trial starts, there really doesn't seem like any way out for Ryuunosuke, and any progress you make takes work. It also kept me stumped pretty far throughout - even when I thought I had something, those theories turned out to be wrong.
The case also did something that I've seen in the other episodes (so this is more of a whole-game praise): it didn't ignore the past episodes when it came to the main characters. Ryuunosuke and Susato's actions and feelings were clearly influenced by the previous two chapters, and having started episode 4, that builds off what happens here. Compared to past games in the series, where there would be months between cases and minimal emotional carryover except when convenient (Turnabout Samurai never really touches on Mia's death, right?), it's a lovely change of pace and makes the game flow better.
Big old spoiler impressions:
Of course, the reason it seems like there's no way out for Ryuu is that there is no way out for Ryuu. The case is so beautiful in how it uses the player expectations of an AA case against them. The obvious point of reference is 2-4, but there you can make the argument that the player knew a bombshell was coming - after all, Maya was kidnapped, Edgeworth was back, it was the finale. The way this case was set up, it almost felt like another case 1, designed to teach you the basics of jury trials with a slightly tougher challenge.
Then Megendahl comes along and stomps all over the player. The writers did a great job in balancing him out in being suspicious; he gets more and more unsettling as the case goes on, but never quite enough for the player to seriously suspect him in most cases. If anything, the biggest tipoff is just how competent he is in his own defense, and even that can send the player astray - an AA player might think, "hey, finally, a competent defendant," not, "this guy's too good." We're trained to trust our clients, and in a meta sense, another guilty defendant after 2-4 has been something I think a lot of the fandom doubted would really happen again.
In particular, the way the case itself develops is so good at misleading you. Yes, you can examine the carriage ASAP and find the luggage-filled compartment and notice there's only one spot of blood - but you don't have to, at least not immediately. And when you do notice the difference? If you're like me, you still don't make the final leap for a while. My immediate reaction to the disappearing luggage was honestly, "there must be a secret passage in the carriage or a false back, and that's how the killer got in." As for the blood? When I noticed that I started to think that maybe during the smoke someone had somehow swapped the entire carriage. It wasn't until we were most of the way through the final testimony, and Fairplay/Ladyfirst being guilty really wasn't sitting with me, that I made the jump.
And even then the case dares to leave itself vague. You "know" what happened, but there's so much you can't tell is fact or fiction. Megendahl walks, and you understand he's guilty, but there's no decisive proof for once.
And then, of course, that ending. Suffice to say the stream went batshit.
Then Megendahl comes along and stomps all over the player. The writers did a great job in balancing him out in being suspicious; he gets more and more unsettling as the case goes on, but never quite enough for the player to seriously suspect him in most cases. If anything, the biggest tipoff is just how competent he is in his own defense, and even that can send the player astray - an AA player might think, "hey, finally, a competent defendant," not, "this guy's too good." We're trained to trust our clients, and in a meta sense, another guilty defendant after 2-4 has been something I think a lot of the fandom doubted would really happen again.
In particular, the way the case itself develops is so good at misleading you. Yes, you can examine the carriage ASAP and find the luggage-filled compartment and notice there's only one spot of blood - but you don't have to, at least not immediately. And when you do notice the difference? If you're like me, you still don't make the final leap for a while. My immediate reaction to the disappearing luggage was honestly, "there must be a secret passage in the carriage or a false back, and that's how the killer got in." As for the blood? When I noticed that I started to think that maybe during the smoke someone had somehow swapped the entire carriage. It wasn't until we were most of the way through the final testimony, and Fairplay/Ladyfirst being guilty really wasn't sitting with me, that I made the jump.
And even then the case dares to leave itself vague. You "know" what happened, but there's so much you can't tell is fact or fiction. Megendahl walks, and you understand he's guilty, but there's no decisive proof for once.
And then, of course, that ending. Suffice to say the stream went batshit.
Now, all this comes with the asterisk that I've only just played the case, and past experience has taught me that I'm usually much more generous to a case shortly after playing it than I am in the long run. But it was a very memorable episode.
Dai Gyakuten Saiban cleared! 25,5 hours total, with the last case being around ~8 hours long. Great addition to the series.
It also seems that this will be the new Ace Attorney series for a while. I wonder when the sequel will be announced.
I'll write more in depth impressions after I get something to eat, since I was marathoning the last chapter since the morning.
Edit, the promised impressions:
I was surprised how much I liked Dai Gyakuten Saiban, since I usually find the XIV century Meiji Era/England very boring. That said, the game had a truly great cast of characters and fun new systems (jury, multiple witnesses from LvP etc.).
The pacing, first super long case aside, was one of the best in the series so far, although like I've said before the last case took 8 hours...
Each chapter had quite a few touching moments, fun references and none of them felt weak in the overall package.
I was honestly surprised that they've hinted so much at the sequel(s), since I was expecting DGS to be a one-off. I guess there's so much you can do with present day Ace Attorney games before people get tired of them.
If I was to complain about one thing, it would be the fact that the last case didn't "feel" as powerful as other final cases in the series, but hey, it might be me! I still enjoyed it quite a bit.
I also think that this was the easiest game in the series. I think I felt completely lost maybe once and that was just because the game suddenly started being weird about other witnesses reacting to the testimony (I think that only occurred once). For the most time it was pretty obvious what to present and when to push for a more detailed testimony. Can't say it's a bad thing, because I really hate getting stuck in AA games because of some weird logic/not noticing some miniscule details.
It also seems that this will be the new Ace Attorney series for a while. I wonder when the sequel will be announced.
I'll write more in depth impressions after I get something to eat, since I was marathoning the last chapter since the morning.
Edit, the promised impressions:
I was surprised how much I liked Dai Gyakuten Saiban, since I usually find the XIV century Meiji Era/England very boring. That said, the game had a truly great cast of characters and fun new systems (jury, multiple witnesses from LvP etc.).
The pacing, first super long case aside, was one of the best in the series so far, although like I've said before the last case took 8 hours...
Each chapter had quite a few touching moments, fun references and none of them felt weak in the overall package.
I was honestly surprised that they've hinted so much at the sequel(s), since I was expecting DGS to be a one-off. I guess there's so much you can do with present day Ace Attorney games before people get tired of them.
If I was to complain about one thing, it would be the fact that the last case didn't "feel" as powerful as other final cases in the series, but hey, it might be me! I still enjoyed it quite a bit.
I also think that this was the easiest game in the series. I think I felt completely lost maybe once and that was just because the game suddenly started being weird about other witnesses reacting to the testimony (I think that only occurred once). For the most time it was pretty obvious what to present and when to push for a more detailed testimony. Can't say it's a bad thing, because I really hate getting stuck in AA games because of some weird logic/not noticing some miniscule details.
Magnet_Man
Member
Finished Case 4. It's the dud. Every game's got one and this is DGS's dud.
Okay, so that's selling it a bit short but this is easily the weakest case of the game. It's the filler case, but the game needed a case like this
.
While this is case is one of the weaker ones, it might be the funniest in the series! So much slapstick and hilarious physical comedy before ending with has to be the funniest breakdown I've ever seen. The characters themselves are so expressive which is exploited to the fullest as the worst things happen to them. Three characters you question in this are hen-pecked husbands with battle-axes for wives. Some of them are lucky that their other half isn't within earshot. Some of them...not so much. It's the most fun you'll have with domestic violence this year!
The mystery aspect wasn't bad, just dull. It never really escalated or got more complicated and while there were moments where you wonder "where could we possibly go from here", but the answer comes pretty shortly after. One thing that's been irking me with the game is how you need to press every comment of a testimony, either to prompt a character to just ask you a question or because you have absolutely no idea when one of the other witnesses will chime in. I know a lot of people press every comment by default but I don't enjoy that because it doesn't feel like I'm solving the case. Instead of going directly for the comments that I think are suspicious or too vague, the case won't continue until I press everything which makes it feel more like I'm just clicking through the story as usual with my only agency being the order I choose to hear it.
It wasn't a bad case and it's filled with hilarious moments, but this is certainly an instance where I'm glad we have the option to fast-forward text so I can get to them sooner.
Okay, so that's selling it a bit short but this is easily the weakest case of the game. It's the filler case, but the game needed a case like this
so Naruhodo could finally get a normal win
While this is case is one of the weaker ones, it might be the funniest in the series! So much slapstick and hilarious physical comedy before ending with has to be the funniest breakdown I've ever seen. The characters themselves are so expressive which is exploited to the fullest as the worst things happen to them. Three characters you question in this are hen-pecked husbands with battle-axes for wives. Some of them are lucky that their other half isn't within earshot. Some of them...not so much. It's the most fun you'll have with domestic violence this year!
I was praying to high heaven that when we started suspecting Joan during Pat and Lola's testimony that she'd join them. Think about it. Joan's animation has her slapping whoever is on her left when she gets annoyed while Lola is yanking Pat's scarf on the right. If Joan had joined them, Pat would've been getting slapped and yanked during the entire thing with no where to hide! Especially since I was thinking he was the culprit and he was cheating on Lola with the victim so his breakdown would be both ladies unleashing dual fury that not even hell could conjure. But it was not meant to be....
The mystery aspect wasn't bad, just dull. It never really escalated or got more complicated and while there were moments where you wonder "where could we possibly go from here", but the answer comes pretty shortly after. One thing that's been irking me with the game is how you need to press every comment of a testimony, either to prompt a character to just ask you a question or because you have absolutely no idea when one of the other witnesses will chime in. I know a lot of people press every comment by default but I don't enjoy that because it doesn't feel like I'm solving the case. Instead of going directly for the comments that I think are suspicious or too vague, the case won't continue until I press everything which makes it feel more like I'm just clicking through the story as usual with my only agency being the order I choose to hear it.
It wasn't a bad case and it's filled with hilarious moments, but this is certainly an instance where I'm glad we have the option to fast-forward text so I can get to them sooner.
Overall, how would you rate the game compared to all other AA games?
Well, I guess once you have played your share of AA games you usually know how the designers think.
In a way DGS is also a new entry point, so maybe Takumi thought he shouldn't go to hard on the new players.
Anyways, I hope AA6 will get harder. Eshiro acknowledged in an interview that Japanese players complained AA5 was to easy, so I am looking forward to the difficulty of the next main game.
Neko Godot
Member
For those that have finished, I have 2 yes or no questions.
Does the final trial take place in a "special" courtroom like the final trials of AA5 and Professor Layton VS Phoenix Wright did?
Does the final trial get its own court intro theme like the one in Professor Layton VS Phoenix Wright did?
Thank you!
Does the final trial take place in a "special" courtroom like the final trials of AA5 and Professor Layton VS Phoenix Wright did?
Does the final trial get its own court intro theme like the one in Professor Layton VS Phoenix Wright did?
Thank you!
Yeah, I finished episode four about an hour ago and it's very much a 'breather' episode after the past few. Funny, but not the world's deepest mystery or the most dramatic courtroom. I did like that they continued building on the jury system by bringing
- I was afraid when I heard about it at first that it'd get stale quickly.
the "questioning" system into it
I played all AA games including Investigations 1 and 2, Layton etc., and I think that DGS was much better than other spinoff games.
As for the mainline titles, I liked it more than 4 and maybe 2 (maybe, because I honestly don't remember much about 2, it was so long ago). 1 and 3 are still my favorite though and 5 had the cast of characters I love, so it's difficult to compare DGS to that one.
First question ->
Not really. It was the regular court.
Second - I don't think so, but I was so pumped that I wasn't paying that much attention to the music.
Better than AAI2, eh? That's high praise to me.
Magnet_Man
Member
Finished the investigation for Case 5 and part way through the start of the trial now and all I can say is...
My heart! It's too much! Just kill me now! There's no reason to go on! And yet I must...
I haven't felt this odd melancholy sense going into a final trial since 1-5, my favorite case of the series. And then these witnesses! And this jury!
I can't handle this! I'm dying!!
This game might actually dethrone T&T as my second favorite in the series if this keeps up!
My heart! It's too much! Just kill me now! There's no reason to go on! And yet I must...
I haven't felt this odd melancholy sense going into a final trial since 1-5, my favorite case of the series. And then these witnesses! And this jury!
Holy shit it's him! And it's that guy again! And he's eyeballing the maid juror!!
This game might actually dethrone T&T as my second favorite in the series if this keeps up!
PreyingShark
Member
Just met Iris
and like... she's amazing.
at Holmes' place
Iris also has the best character theme ever.
In general the character themes are awesome in this game, e.g. Kazuma's or Susato's themes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-mtWoB_a2g#t=3m21.5s
In general the character themes are awesome in this game, e.g. Kazuma's or Susato's themes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-mtWoB_a2g#t=3m21.5s
Magnet_Man
Member
Right? Right!?
And then you got the first witnesses,
Not-Mario and Not-Luigi who are funny enough, but then then they start trying to do cool high fives while missing the entire time! Could not stop laughing!
So mad I gotta go to work today. I had to stop in the middle of the trial yesterday so I could get sleep, but I think I'm going to leave early to finish this.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Is anyone ready to rank this in the grand scheme of things?
So apparently the Japanese players don't really like DGS. Most of them give it one star.
I google translated some of the 1-star reviews and apparently they dislike the ending (cliffhanger, foreshadowing) and the DLCs. So maybe they're just your typical DLC hater, but how about the ending?
Is it like VLR'S ending (foreshadowing ZE 3, but technically fully closed)?
I google translated some of the 1-star reviews and apparently they dislike the ending (cliffhanger, foreshadowing) and the DLCs. So maybe they're just your typical DLC hater, but how about the ending?
Is it like VLR'S ending (foreshadowing ZE 3, but technically fully closed)?
First, don't ever worry about Amazon reviews. Many trolls love giving popular games 1 star after they come out.
As for the ending, the final case addresses most of the plot points in the game, but a few are left unsolved (unsolved stuff spoilers):
Why did the girl from the first case kill Watson (she never appears again)?
Why does the shinigami prosecutor hate Japanese people (he mentions that you'll know someday)?
Who will be Naruhodo's girl?
No other game in the series has left so many plot points hanging, so I guess I can understand some of the frustration, but I'm excited for the sequels.
Modest Mauser
Member
I seem to remember this happening before, it seems like Amazon.jp gets flooded sometimes with negative reviews over somewhat trivial stuff?
Hours Left
Member
This pretty much happens with every new release now. I definitely wouldn't worry about Amazon reviews being an indicator of anything.
Shu Takumi handling this game right? I'm kinda like AA5 at first but gradually I become disliking it the more I realized how different it is from Shu's games.
Sounds like Takumi direct the game as a part of series this time, unlike the first AA which resulting in some conflicting facts.
Sounds like Takumi direct the game as a part of series this time, unlike the first AA which resulting in some conflicting facts.
Yes, that's exactly how it feels like.
PreyingShark
Member
Yep!
Even if we didn't have official confirmation, I think Case 3 would still be enough of a giveaway that he was behind this game.
Modest Mauser
Member
I think he's really been wanting to start building a new trilogy for a while. Apollo was meant to be the start of a trilogy but the team who ended up making AA5 had other plans.
mrmickfran
Member
I'd be fine with an Ace Attorney from Takumi's team and the Dual Destinies team each. More AA is always a good thing...
...Provided it makes its way overseas.
...Provided it makes its way overseas.
Well, I am not worried, but I thought people in Japan love Ace Attorney. I guess the game is so popular that it just attracts this type of people who love to give popular games 1 star reviews.
Takumi said in his last interview that he would love to turn DGS into a series. That should explain the ending and I am fine with some loose ends. Heck, I had no problem at all with VLR's ending.
Link1110
Member
AA4 did this too, I just hope these things are addressed in sequels that actually happen this time.
They Fey clan are supposed to be Japanese, despite not looking like a different race from anyone else so we can conclude Asians don't look different in the AA universe. Phoenix and Payne have Japanese ancestry. There, I just figured it out.
thegirlleastlikelyto
Member
Are you sure you're not working at Capcom as a localizer already?
In any case, if you don't think the characters in GyakuSai are obviously based on Japanese people and styles, you must have never lived in Japan.
Link1110
Member
I know they're supposed to be Japanese in the originals, but I'm just saying there's no reason we can't just say "Phoenix and Payne are part Japanese and these are their ancestors" without breaking continuity even if we're to assume the other games take place in LA.
Magnet_Man
Member
Finished case 5.
I'm not sure where to begin...
...
This case was extremely overwhelming yet at times extremely underwhelming. But I certainly do mean overwhelming in a good way. This was a very emotional case that made me feel just exhausted from the strain of it all, but in a good way again. Shu Takumi excels above all else with his characters. He is able to craft such wonderfully memorable, endearing, exaggerated, yet entirely believable characters like few others can. I care so much about what was happening to them. This case and this game itself is very much a character piece for you to watch and enjoy how they interact and grow.
Except for Gina. She sucks. Bleh.
...But at the same time it was very underwhelming in a lot of areas. The court session went on so long, but I was expecting that because there were so many mysteries to consider going in. The trial kept going and at times you'd think you were hitting that big turnaround point where you tear off everything and leave it bare! ...It doesn't happen. So much of the trial is buggering off every little excuse the witnesses throw and it builds to what you'd think would be some serious potential---! It reverts back to where you just where again. Trial was just too long with no serious pay off. It had a good ending, but it needed to cut the fat by a lot. It had some great moments for sure that made my hair stand on end and blew my mind when I noticed the big changes, it just took a while to get there for no real benefit for the journey.
The main shortcoming of the game --and I guess this isn't a spoiler if you're all talking about it already is yes, it ends on a cliffhanger. You catch the killer and the details of the case itself are cleared but many overarching plot threads are left unresolved and personally I really don't like that in my stories and my games. Especially after being burned so many times in the past with things like Mega Man Legends and Zero Escape. Getting multiple games in a series is not a sure thing. What if this game tanks and Capcom vetoes any sequels? All those plot threads and characters are dead in the water to never be resolved! Ending on a cliffhanger doesn't make me excited for a sequel; it means I can't really evaluate this game because it isn't over and I hate that. In fact, it pisses me off! Sure you can take that as a good sign that I enjoyed the story and characters enough that I'm that hungry for it to continue or that it means there's a much grander story already conceived for us, but I just feel jerked around for no reason and no guarantee that it will be resolved.
I can't imagine how different my opinion of Ghost Trick would be if it ended on a cliffhanger and you didn't find out almost half the mysteries in the game.
Van Zieks suffered the most from this decision. He had no character arc whatsoever. He's the same as he started, he had no progression to his character, and we know nothing about him or his motivations. As of this game he is nothing more than a placeholder because we needed a prosecutor and that is such a waste of his potential and the merits he could give to the story. Especially since if there is a sequel he'll probably be replaced.
But that's enough negativity. I really did enjoy this game. It has one of the best casts I've ever seen and just seeing them interact and enjoy each other was worth the price of admission, easily. The mysteries themselves are very creative and if you were afraid of hand-holding you are goddamn safe from that. At the very least, this last case got VERY difficult and rarely did I feel I had the contradiction right and the game wouldn't acknowledge it. In fact I can only think of one time that happened. Conversely I can think of many times where I was lost about what to present. The rest of the game wasn't terribly difficult but they didn't spoon-fed you with exposition assistants or monologues like AA5 did. That's honestly why the cliffhanger aspect left such an impact on me is because this game was really that good and I just wanted it to have a proper ending.
Also I take back everything I said about the music. It got better and better and better almost every second of the game. Pursuit is still a little lacking but it works out really well when done in game. The credits and the visuals with them are something truly special.
So where would I rank this game? Off the top of my head, going with pure emotional bias:
AA1 > AA3 > AA2 > DGS > AAI2 > AA5 > AAI1 > AA4
If it had a more solid ending it would've been #3, no contest and maybe even #2 if the last case developed into something grander and larger in scope than what it was, but this is my standing as of completing the game approximately an hour ago. It might jump up higher based on how the story progresses...if it progresses...
I hope this will come out overseas so everyone can experience this, because despite the dips this was a really wonderful experience that not just fore Ace Attorney fans, but any fan of character driven narratives. I just hope that we get confirmations of sequels by then.
I'm not sure where to begin...
...
This case was extremely overwhelming yet at times extremely underwhelming. But I certainly do mean overwhelming in a good way. This was a very emotional case that made me feel just exhausted from the strain of it all, but in a good way again. Shu Takumi excels above all else with his characters. He is able to craft such wonderfully memorable, endearing, exaggerated, yet entirely believable characters like few others can. I care so much about what was happening to them. This case and this game itself is very much a character piece for you to watch and enjoy how they interact and grow.
Except for Gina. She sucks. Bleh.
...But at the same time it was very underwhelming in a lot of areas. The court session went on so long, but I was expecting that because there were so many mysteries to consider going in. The trial kept going and at times you'd think you were hitting that big turnaround point where you tear off everything and leave it bare! ...It doesn't happen. So much of the trial is buggering off every little excuse the witnesses throw and it builds to what you'd think would be some serious potential---! It reverts back to where you just where again. Trial was just too long with no serious pay off. It had a good ending, but it needed to cut the fat by a lot. It had some great moments for sure that made my hair stand on end and blew my mind when I noticed the big changes, it just took a while to get there for no real benefit for the journey.
The main shortcoming of the game --and I guess this isn't a spoiler if you're all talking about it already is yes, it ends on a cliffhanger. You catch the killer and the details of the case itself are cleared but many overarching plot threads are left unresolved and personally I really don't like that in my stories and my games. Especially after being burned so many times in the past with things like Mega Man Legends and Zero Escape. Getting multiple games in a series is not a sure thing. What if this game tanks and Capcom vetoes any sequels? All those plot threads and characters are dead in the water to never be resolved! Ending on a cliffhanger doesn't make me excited for a sequel; it means I can't really evaluate this game because it isn't over and I hate that. In fact, it pisses me off! Sure you can take that as a good sign that I enjoyed the story and characters enough that I'm that hungry for it to continue or that it means there's a much grander story already conceived for us, but I just feel jerked around for no reason and no guarantee that it will be resolved.
I can't imagine how different my opinion of Ghost Trick would be if it ended on a cliffhanger and you didn't find out almost half the mysteries in the game.
Van Zieks suffered the most from this decision. He had no character arc whatsoever. He's the same as he started, he had no progression to his character, and we know nothing about him or his motivations. As of this game he is nothing more than a placeholder because we needed a prosecutor and that is such a waste of his potential and the merits he could give to the story. Especially since if there is a sequel he'll probably be replaced.
But that's enough negativity. I really did enjoy this game. It has one of the best casts I've ever seen and just seeing them interact and enjoy each other was worth the price of admission, easily. The mysteries themselves are very creative and if you were afraid of hand-holding you are goddamn safe from that. At the very least, this last case got VERY difficult and rarely did I feel I had the contradiction right and the game wouldn't acknowledge it. In fact I can only think of one time that happened. Conversely I can think of many times where I was lost about what to present. The rest of the game wasn't terribly difficult but they didn't spoon-fed you with exposition assistants or monologues like AA5 did. That's honestly why the cliffhanger aspect left such an impact on me is because this game was really that good and I just wanted it to have a proper ending.
Also I take back everything I said about the music. It got better and better and better almost every second of the game. Pursuit is still a little lacking but it works out really well when done in game. The credits and the visuals with them are something truly special.
So where would I rank this game? Off the top of my head, going with pure emotional bias:
AA1 > AA3 > AA2 > DGS > AAI2 > AA5 > AAI1 > AA4
If it had a more solid ending it would've been #3, no contest and maybe even #2 if the last case developed into something grander and larger in scope than what it was, but this is my standing as of completing the game approximately an hour ago. It might jump up higher based on how the story progresses...if it progresses...
I hope this will come out overseas so everyone can experience this, because despite the dips this was a really wonderful experience that not just fore Ace Attorney fans, but any fan of character driven narratives. I just hope that we get confirmations of sequels by then.
MY SHIPS ARE NEVER WRONG!!
Interesting. I've not played AAI2 personally, but I felt AA2 was very weak besides the last case, which was absurdly good. I'm still super excited for an over seas release, I really don't care if it's just digital as we got a reduced price tag last time.
AA5 was already way too easy and if this game is even easier then I'm afraid I won't be able to enjoy it if it ever gets localized :/
Magnet_Man
Member
Again, it's very difficult to rate DGS very fairly right now for me because the story isn't complete.
AA2 is beating it for two reasons:
First, AA2 was a complete story. The way I felt at the end of AA2 was worlds apart from how I felt overall from DGS's end. DGS's end at parts may have been the best of the series, however since the story is incomplete it puts a serious damper on all of that. Frankly because it did not complete the story it presented in this game, if I was to be truly honest, I should drop this game to last just for that. I hate cliffhangers that much. I felt that would be selling the game much too short, so I instead am placing it there by means of how much I enjoyed the experience throughout. It was a very fun game that I enjoyed experiencing, but there's no way I'm replaying it again until a sequel is announced because going through it for everyone to tell me what a dire questions we have to solve in London knowing that we will not answer at the end will just make me more angry. I at least know AA2 has an ending and that means a lot to me.
If we get sequels, then I can better evaluate how DGS handles its story. On an emotional level, it would leave AA2 in the distance and even overtake AA3 in that regard.
Second, AA2 & 3 had better villains. 2-4's was very memorable and a true monster with layers to him. The villains in DGS are...different...because the circumstances around their cases. All I can say is that Case 5's killer was EXTREMELY boring and uninteresting. This person got a little better during the confession at the end, but was still a very boring character to fight and interact with. Did not feel like last boss material at all.
Which sadly makes sense since the murder itself had nothing to do with the overall story. In some ways it felt like the longest and most intense filler case with the two discs had being the only connection to the main game
Because it's hard for me to rate this because the story and its characters aren't finished, I have to try to keep my dissatisfaction and --let's be honest, bitterness at the ending from bleeding over to other aspects of what is a very enjoyable game.
Yeah...my worry as well. So difficult to find narrative games that tax your logical faculties.
PreyingShark
Member
Feels harder than AA5 to me so far, only on Case 4's trial though.
At the very least it doesn't explicitly show you who did it for the first two cases like AA5 did. I didn't like that at all in AA5 so I'm glad they didn't do that this time.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I've been marathoning the series and yeah, AA2 is about as bad as I remember it being. Yes, 2-4 is amazing, but there's more than 1 case in an AA game and AA2's other cases are mediocre at best with 2-3 being the worst AA case of all time. 2-1 is boring even compared to other first cases in the series and case 2 is mediocre except for the villain whom I liked. I haven't played the AAI games yet or DGS but AA2 is most definitely the weakest one by far imo.
Ace Attorney has always been more about the story and characters but I see how that would be concerning, nevertheless I didn't enjoy AA5 any less despite its easiness.
EastOfEden
Member
Hmm, that's a shame that it's easy. I have one question though, something that bothered me as much as AA5's handholding was the very restricted investigation stages.
Some of my favourite AA moments come from examining every single, irrelevant object or part of the background and listen to the characters' funny exchanges. Is DGS like the older games in that regard or can you only click on relevant items like AA5?
Some of my favourite AA moments come from examining every single, irrelevant object or part of the background and listen to the characters' funny exchanges. Is DGS like the older games in that regard or can you only click on relevant items like AA5?
You can examine things freely in this game, no worries. That said, the investigations do feel a little smaller than in the DS games, likely because of the extra work in making 3D environments.
Also, with regards to difficulty: there were a few tricky moments, and even if the overall package wasn't too difficult, it cut down on the hand-holding from AA5. That doesn't prevent the occasional moment where the characters are going back and forth over what something could mean when you've been ready to yell the answer for five minutes, but I think that's just an accepted part of Ace Attorney at this point.
Also, with regards to difficulty: there were a few tricky moments, and even if the overall package wasn't too difficult, it cut down on the hand-holding from AA5. That doesn't prevent the occasional moment where the characters are going back and forth over what something could mean when you've been ready to yell the answer for five minutes, but I think that's just an accepted part of Ace Attorney at this point.
EastOfEden
Member
I wasn't aware they brought back free examination for this one, that's great to hear! It always felt like a really artificial limit in Dual Destinies, lots of objects I wanted to check out in that game but couldn't.
Difficulty doesn't bother me too much. I do feel like they went overboard in Dual Destinies but generally speaking most of Ace Attorney's difficulty has come from more obtuse parts and that's not the kind of difficulty I enjoy for this kind of game. So if they cut down on AA5's hand-holding it should pretty much be perfect for me.
I gotta say everything I've heard about DGS sounds great far. Come on Capcom, announce something already.
Difficulty doesn't bother me too much. I do feel like they went overboard in Dual Destinies but generally speaking most of Ace Attorney's difficulty has come from more obtuse parts and that's not the kind of difficulty I enjoy for this kind of game. So if they cut down on AA5's hand-holding it should pretty much be perfect for me.
I gotta say everything I've heard about DGS sounds great far. Come on Capcom, announce something already.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
On a plot twist scale from:
PHOENIX'S LAST NAME IS WRIGHT?! to
how big are the plot twists in this?
PHOENIX'S LAST NAME IS WRIGHT?! to
Von Karma shooting Greg Edgeworth
PreyingShark
Member
To sum up Case 3: What. The. Fuck? In a good way of course. Dunno about Case 5, haven't even started it yet. 2 and 4 have some nice twists too. Also Holmes has been amazing so far.
Sales data of the first week:
New 02. The Great Ace Attorney 135,690
Second to the new Yokai Watch spin off of course. Well, it's nothing compared to the main AA series (e.g. AA4 and AA5 sold 250k in the opening week), but at least it's better than PLvAA. I don't know how much of the initial shipping they sold through, but this will probably revealed soon as well.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/15/this-week-in-sales-yo-kai-bustin-makes-me-feel-good/
New 02. The Great Ace Attorney 135,690
Second to the new Yokai Watch spin off of course. Well, it's nothing compared to the main AA series (e.g. AA4 and AA5 sold 250k in the opening week), but at least it's better than PLvAA. I don't know how much of the initial shipping they sold through, but this will probably revealed soon as well.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/15/this-week-in-sales-yo-kai-bustin-makes-me-feel-good/
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