Feels harder than AA5 to me so far, only on Case 4's trial though.
At the very least it doesn't explicitly show you who did it for the first two cases like AA5 did. I didn't like that at all in AA5 so I'm glad they didn't do that this time.
Does your assistant still give you super obvious hints?
That's good to hear. I can understand showing the culprit in the 1st case since it's usually just a short tutorial, though that does not seem to be the case on DGS, but spoiling the culprit of the 2nd case never made any sense.
Ace Attorney has always been more about the story and characters but I see how that would be concerning, nevertheless I didn't enjoy AA5 any less despite its easiness.
The problem is that the low difficulty does impact the story. Take the last ''contradiction'' in AA5 for example. It's super easy to solve and yet Phoenix despairs and acts like it's all over. Makes him seem like a brain dead lawyer, which is completely opposite to his ''legendary defense attorney'' image that is pushed throughout AA5.
Hmm...6.5/10? There are plenty of twists but nothing in the game itself is on as big of a scale as what we've seen in things like 1-4, 1-5, or 3-5. The things that are being set up for the series overall have a ton of potential.
Alright, for what seems like the big question on everyone's mind:
Difficulty. All personal impressions so mileage will vary when/if you guys get to play it.
I would say it's easy, but the good kind of easy. Easy like how Kirby games are when you're going for the collectables like in Return to Dreamland or Triple Deluxe. They require effort but don't stress you out. I never felt like "well I know what this piece of evidence means" and then wait 20 minutes for the game to catch up and I never felt like the other characters drummed it into your face what you need to do. At most I recall, Naruhodo will think "I should make sure to examine my evidence" or specify a specific piece. The vast majority of game felt like in 1-4 when
you get Lotta's photo that shows the gunman holding the pistol with the opposite hand. It's obvious what the contradiction was, but It felt good to see that because you finally had a break in these very hopeless looking cases
. I'll get some evidence and go, "wait...what does this mean? Why is this hereOHHHHH".
I think they hit a good middle ground on the difficulty and investigation phases go very smoothly. Nothing is on the level of 3-5's
Flying Misty Fey because there was a string on the bridge
Second to the new Yokai Watch spin off of course. Well, it's nothing compared to the main AA series (e.g. AA4 and AA5 sold 250k in the opening week), but at least it's better than PLvAA. I don't know how much of the initial shipping they sold through, but this will probably revealed soon as well.
Most of the time I read it but I did mash in scenarios when it looked like she was just telling me to look for a contradiction or to press the witnesses. So the places where in AA5 you sometimes got your hand held.
Does your assistant still give you super obvious hints?
That's good to hear. I can understand showing the culprit in the 1st case since it's usually just a short tutorial, though that does not seem to be the case on DGS, but spoiling the culprit of the 2nd case never made any sense.
The problem is that the low difficulty does impact the story. Take the last ''contradiction'' in AA5 for example. It's super easy to solve and yet Phoenix despairs and acts like it's all over. Makes him seem like a brain dead lawyer, which is completely opposite to his ''legendary defense attorney'' image that is pushed throughout AA5.
Let's be fair, Phoenix has always been reliant on outside help. I've always felt like some parts would be better if Phoenix solved it by himself, but sure enough someone pops up to help.
Anyway, the impressions sound great, I sure hope we get it here.
Let's be fair, Phoenix has always been reliant on outside help. I've always felt like some parts would be better if Phoenix solved it by himself, but sure enough someone pops up to help.
Anyway, the impressions sound great, I sure hope we get it here.
Yeah, but usually it would be like someone bringing in a new piece of evidence at the last minute or revealing an unknown facet of existing evidence that you can't find out on your own. Sure it might be a lazy way to ratchet up the tension but at least it doesn't insult your intelligence.
In Dual Destinies the sidekick would literally say "hmm I think this [particular part of testimony] sounds funny" or "perhaps we should ask them about [piece of evidence]" after looking through the testimony. Either you had to guess the contradiction as soon as it came up or the game would basically spoil the answer for you - all the previous games would make you actually think through things properly.
Yeah, but usually it would be like someone bringing in a new piece of evidence at the last minute or revealing an unknown facet of existing evidence that you can't find out on your own. Sure it might be a lazy way to ratchet up the tension but at least it doesn't insult your intelligence.
In Dual Destinies the sidekick would literally say "hmm I think this [particular part of testimony] sounds funny" or "perhaps we should ask them about [piece of evidence]" after looking through the testimony. Either you had to guess the contradiction as soon as it came up or the game would basically spoil the answer for you - all the previous games would make you actually think through things properly.
I want to read as much dialogue as possible so I press every statement, examine everything and even purposely choose the wrong answer sometimes. I really don't want to skip any dialogue but if it's just generic stuff mixed with unnecessary hints then I might be able to do it.
To give this thread a bit of a jolt (and because I still haven't had a chance to write a full review/impressions): case rankings go!
3 > 2 > 5 > 1 = 4 (roughly)
Episode three introduces new characters and mechanics to the game, and gives the story a major kick in the pants. Without going into detail because of spoilers, I'd say it does the best job story-wise of shaking up AA tradition, and it's definitely a case where you could tell Takumi was letting himself branch out with the structure. Plus, it's got a solid mystery at its center. You can see my full post about it here.
Episode two, a bit like three, plays with the expectations for an AA story - here, the whole situation, from start to finish, feels very much like a Holmes story rather than an AA one. But more interestingly it plays with the expectations for AA gameplay - (gameplay spoilers? I forget how much people know this next part)
setting the whole thing in the investigation phase is unthinkable for past AA games, but here between the great investigation presentation, Joint Reasoning, and the finale 'summation' scene, it mostly works.
Joint Reasoning gets its first showcase here, and it's more fun than it has any right to be - I mean, at the end of the day, it's still just presenting evidence/pointing things out, just with an emphasis on 3D examination. But it's so well presented and so alternately hilarious and vital for moving the case forward that it just works. The overall plot of the episode is fairly strong as well, with a good emotional core. My one critique here is that it sags a little bit in the middle stage, but that may be unavoidable given its structure. (I imagine the emotional beats will also just barely miss for some people once more folks get a chance to play it.)
Episode five is... like I said above, I'm of the opinion that in some parallel world there is a DGS where a slimmed-down episode five is episode four instead and it fits in perfectly. Instead, we've got this world, and in this world episode five is strong but not quite strong enough. The crime is deceptively simple but still manages to work in one of the most punch-the-air in-court revelations I've seen, and the focus on the main characters brings their best to the forefront (save a few who get a bit sidelined.) But the culprit is definitely in the lower tier of AA final bosses (I'd rate them above AAI and AA5, but that's not saying much) and the trial itself drags on too long without enough progress. It's a particular shame because the way you take down the culprit is one of the most satisfying court moments in the series, but you take such a long road to get there. And finally, as mentioned before in the thread, the episode raises more questions than it answers. Maybe just a few more answers would have helped tip the balance, but as it stands it feels too much like setup for DGS2 to really shine.
Episode one is a fairly standard kickoff, and to be honest it's a pretty strong case. Seeing Ryuunosuke in court for the first time is particularly enjoyable, as he's the most rookie of all the protagonists - he goes through a lot more visible growth in his first trial than any of the others, and it brings a sense that you're seeing a personal turnabout for him and not just one in the trial. But the pacing of the episode kills it - one particularly large chunk of the episode is spent figuring out a trick the culprit used that is then immediately forgotten for the rest of the trial due to circumstances. Trimmed down a bit, it would be a stellar episode one - instead it's just a strong one.
Episode four is strange. The main thing is it's definitely a filler case, and we've trained ourselves as AA fans to expect something more as the finale nears, so you've got to shake yourself out of that mindset. Once you do, you get... a fairly standard filler case. The ultimate solution to the mystery is a nice twist on the usual proceedings, but the path you take to get there just wanders for a while. (It doesn't help that the crime itself is particularly simple for AA. Nor does it help that this is the case with the most "press everything to proceed" testimonies.) Some of the characters, like Souseki, are charming, but others wind up dragging without a ton of depth. And while the case is funny, it does rely on a certain trope (the henpecked husband) a little too much.
Still, all the cases were pretty strong. The ones that worked best were the ones that took risks with the formula that paid off. The ones that worked worst were the ones that let themselves get carried away without providing enough payoff.
I really enjoyed the growth that Naruhodo went through in this game. He may even be my favorite protag of the series. Every case challenged him or gave him opportunity to show his development....except for one of them.
Case 1 had him totally unconfident and completely lost on how to be a lawyer, yet we see he has a gift for the field and was able to solve this case that even Asogi thought was lost. The case did a fantastic job of showing his flaws and his potential while also setting the tone and overarching story of the game. Unfortunately the case goes on far too long and the killer
is just Dahlia Hawthorne again but not as entertaining
.
Case 2 was simply amazing. We get the rest of the core cast with Susato and Holmes and the case did a complete shift on the standard formula. Joint Reasoning is easily one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game with hearing the absurd and almost crazy things Holmes suggests, Naruhodo and Susato taking potshots at him immediately after, correcting the Reasoning, and then exploring the new details you find. Still the best part of the case was how much strength they gave Naruhodo's personality in this,
by struggling to forgive Nicomina for accidentally killing Asogi and then resolving to become a lawyer for Asogi's sake, Susato's, and for his own. He was completely accepting of being deported and tried for being a stowaway, but decided against it after realizing how much it would impact others. It was such a selfless act. I also consider Asogi to be a much better motivation, inspiration, and tragic loss for Naruhodo than Mia ever was for Phoenix.
Case 3 was also great for challenging the standard formula again and was another aspect of development for Naruhodo
with his first real experience as a lawyer defending a killer and seeing the corruption in London first hand. This would be enough to deter most people away from law practice, especially someone as unsure of himself like Naruhodo was
. Again, it was a solid murder mystery case with a crazy trial ending and an even crazier episode ending setting the stage for the rest of the game's story.
But then...
Case 4 happens. This one is just an anomaly to me. It doesn't advance the story at all, any growth for Naruhodo is handled again and better in Case 5, and the case itself wasn't very interesting at all. It might be the worst enjoyable filler case. I loved the slapstick and physical comedy but the rest of it was just fluff for no reason, which makes me wonder why does it exist? The only reasons I can think of would be
to have a light-hearted case for Naruhodo to solve
and to poke fun at Soseki. But a problem with the first reason is,
do we really need a light-hearted case? Case 3's ending was shocking, but it wasn't depressing. In fact it was a motivator. You wanted to see how those issues resolved
. And if they wanted to poke fun with Soseki, then they could've had Case 5 be the new Case 4 after some slight alterations and trimming down, then have Soseki be the defendant in a new Case 5 that would've given the game a more solid ending while still leaving things open to explore in a sequel. As is, what we got with Case 4 would've been better served as a DLC case rather than part of the main story.
Case 5 got me very invested in everything that was happening because I wanted to know how everything would come together and
I love my cheesy romance cliches, sue me
. The case goes through all sorts of twists already and we see Naruhodo learn for himself what "trusting in his client" really meant and making it his own belief showed just how far he came from Case 1. One of the things I enjoyed the most was how creative they utilized the system of "a witness reacts to another's testimony". Normally, this is just a clever variation of the "press deeper" prompt, but in this case, the very act of noticing another witness's reactions was key to solving the case. It incredibly satisfying to realize
why Gregson isn't scared of the body check. You almost got me you smarmy, chinless bastard. Naw, I'm searching you
Luigi
! However the case went on too long and didn't build up to anything big enough to justify it. Many of the main story threads are unanswered and the killer is perhaps the most boring one ever for a finale. Case 5 is solid enough on its own as a murder mystery and character drama, but lacks the scope to properly be a game's conclusion.
I really want to rate this game higher, I really do because I had so much fun while playing it, but I just can't for three reasons:
1.
Cliffhanger
.
2.
Last killer is too boring
.
3.
Last case never realized the full potential it was working with and tempted the player with
.
The game needed to remove Case 4, make it DLC or something, retool Case 5 into a new Case 4, and then make a new Case 5 that addressed and resolved the major issues like
what happened to Jazelle and why she killed Watson
while still leaving some minor things vague for a sequel to work with.
Just started the final part of Case 5's trial. Considering what you had to do to advance to this part, I think something really fucking fishy is going on. It's like,
"What the fuck do you two think you're doing?"
Looking forward to this conclusion, even if it's supposed to leave a bunch of things unsolved. Enjoyable case so far. Not the strongest though, that would be either 2 or 3. Currently I would go with...
3 > 2 > 5 > 1 > 4
However, even case 4 was pretty solid and enjoyable. I think this game is great, hoping we get a sequel.
From what I read this game had the potential to be one of the best or maybe even THE best Ace Attorney game to date. But by having it to be "part one" of a planned series and not finishing stuff it's dragged down quite a little bit, although overall strong cases (except no. 4) and great characters still see it in the upper half of AA games.
I really hope they do make more DGS games, but part two better finish all the loose end from the first game and wrap it up with maybe only little hints at a possible third game.
Glad to see this game is Takumi at its best! But there is something that bugs me, the game plays itself like Dual Destinies or it's actually hard and compelling like the first 3 instalments?
I'm only in chapter 2 so far, but chapter 1 did have a big moment like this.
It was SUPER obvious to me that
the plates of steak had been switched around
but the game takes half a century to get there.
Overall impressions so far are positive, although I have to say I'm disappointed with the portrayal of Sherlock Holmes so far.
His big, character-defining thing has always been his razor-sharp deductions by looking at tiny details, but he's been consistently WRONG about everything so far, which just seems totally out of character, even if this is obviously a very liberal interpretation of him.
Yeah that was easily the biggest stumble in case one.
Never mind that they go through all the trouble of finding the koban and then just... kind of ignore it in favor of bite marks vs. silverware? It's weird.
Sherlock's got more depth to him than it seems at first glance, so don't worry. I enjoyed him a lot.
Also, Capcom teasing with the high-res screenshots:
It'll be interesting to see if this one gets an iOS release like AA5.
I'm only in chapter 2 so far, but chapter 1 did have a big moment like this.
It was SUPER obvious to me that
the plates of steak had been switched around
but the game takes half a century to get there.
Overall impressions so far are positive, although I have to say I'm disappointed with the portrayal of Sherlock Holmes so far.
His big, character-defining thing has always been his razor-sharp deductions by looking at tiny details, but he's been consistently WRONG about everything so far, which just seems totally out of character, even if this is obviously a very liberal interpretation of him.
Ah yes, that. That really felt like the only instance of it and to be fair, a lot of the problems with Case 1 (aside from being needlessly long repeating during Case 5 I felt) are self contained in it. Like I mentioned in my initial impression of it, it used the "there's nothing we can do" to an obnoxious extent, yet it never got close to that in the rest of the game.
However, I'm going to have to disagree very strongly with your view of Holmes. The contrast of the rumors vs the person is always a great tool for comedic effect, but more importantly if he was portrayed as competent as he is in the stories, it would hurt the game massively in two ways. One, if he was as capable as he was in the stories, he would completely outshine and trivialize Naruhodo's presence. It would've been a repeat of LvsAA with Layton being nigh-omniscient with Phoenix walking in his shadow or a repeat of AA4 with Apollo being helped constantly by Klavier. Having a side character be so much more capable makes the lead character look incompetent and weak. Why should we care about Naruhodo's struggles when Holmes could just walk in, wave his hands, and solve the cases for us? I had enough of that from 1-2, thank you very much.
Secondly, by giving Holmes flaws it allows Naruhodo to compliment and support him to create a team dynamic. Holmes isn't dumb in this game by any means he simply has a more vivid imagination, which is something a genius needs, imo. He thinks and sees the world differently, which is what allows him to solve his baffling cases. His only problem is that he stops his reasoning too early, but that's where Naruhodo comes in with his more level-headed reasoning to keep Holmes on track. If you notice during the Joint Reasoning segments, Holmes commands the course of the conversation for nearly the entire thing while Naruhodo only chimes in occasionally to correct some things before handing back to Holmes. Also, the Holmes's reasoning is always on point, just off by a few degrees. He notices items on people and their mannerisms that Naruhodo doesn't. Conversely, Holmes's more unorthodox methods help keep Naruhodo from boxing himself in from thinking too rationally. They work together to solve problems that individually they could not, which is EXACTLY what a cross-over should do.
When I think about how Naruhodo helps Holmes during cases, it makes (Case 1 spoilers)
Watson's death all the more tragic because in all likelihood, Watson performed this role with Holmes instead. However with his passing, Holmes has lost his other half, his partner, and best friend which makes Holmes more sympathetic and as such, more relatable
her to eventually say, "He's lying, I'm the one who stole the coin. After all, it was found in my plate, not his." And you can't really use fingerprints or anything to prove who the thief was. So you're essentially back at square one... But then she fucks up and you can prove that she's lying about it being her plate and things go smoothly from there.
Except IIRC they didn't actually do that so that segment doesn't make nearly as much sense as was probably intended.
However, I'm going to have to disagree very strongly with your view of Holmes. The contrast of the rumors vs the person is always a great tool for comedic effect, but more importantly if he was portrayed as competent as he is in the stories, it would hurt the game massively in two ways. One, if he was as capable as he was in the stories, he would completely outshine and trivialize Naruhodo's presence. It would've been a repeat of LvsAA with Layton being nigh-omniscient with Phoenix walking in his shadow or a repeat of AA4 with Apollo being helped constantly by Klavier.
I've progressed a bit more (at Chapter 3 now) since making that post, and I am starting to warm up to this version of Holmes now. I'm also sort of suspecting him to get stuff wrong on purpose just to mold Ryunosuke into being more observant and pushing him to point out mistakes.
It's funny that you bring up Layton, because that's exactly whom I found myself comparing him to. I actually liked how they handled Layton in LvsAA, because it made him look like a bad-ass. I should point out I had not played any of the AA games at that point though (only the Layton games) so I wasn't particularly concerned about how Phoenix was depicted, since I didn't know what kind of personality he had anyway.
Anyhoo, it was also interesting to see an entire chapter
without a single court room scene.
This is a first in the series, no? (not counting LvsAA)
Also, and I should probably not even mention this because it's probably going to be significant later on, but I thought it was interesting that
Asogi's sword is called "Karma." Could he be related to the Von Karmas somehow?
If so, then this game is going to be an absolute bitch to localize because of how everything was so Westernized in the older games.
In fact, it's probably going to be a bitch to localize regardless.
The first case was surprisingly meaty, and the second one was pretty tragic. Them feels.
Really loving the change of pace from the "gather evidence -> trial -> gather evidence -> trial -> gather evidence -> trial"-routine.
The OST is fantastic, although the "Pursuit"-theme is one of my least favorite it the series. The announcing the truth and suspense themes more than make up for it though.
Now in the court of case 4. Let's see how long this goes on.
While I'm not too impressed with the pursuit theme this time around, I must say that the "suspense"-theme is, in my opinion, by FAR the best in the entire series.
Finished case 4. Due to reading this thread I expected to find a much less fun case. True, there is little character development, and it doesn't seem connected to the overall plot, but for being possibly the worst case in the game, it was quite decent.
I'm not too familiar with the works of the real Natsume Souseki. Was he famous for being such an eccentric personality? I never heard of him until his appearance in this game, and I laughed so hard when I looked him up and found the game adapted one of his more well-known poses.
I really loved the twist in case 4, when you realize that
Pat moved the body just cos he didn't want to have his wedding anniversary interrupted.
Everything after that was just too obvious.
In fact, I'd say that's the biggest flaw of the game. There's too many occasions where you'll get new evidence just before you need to present it.
I'm not too familiar with the works of the real Natsume Souseki. Was he famous for being such an eccentric personality? I never heard of him until his appearance in this game, and I laughed so hard when I looked him up and found the game adapted one of his more well-known poses.
I really loved the twist in case 4, when you realize that
Pat moved the body just cos he didn't want to have his wedding anniversary interrupted.
Everything after that was just too obvious.
In fact, I'd say that's the biggest flaw of the game. There's too many occasions where you'll get new evidence just before you need to present it.
Just finished the credits. According to the nintendo log I clocked in at around 32 hours and 24 minutes. Quite the improvement when I consider that it took me around 90 hours to complete AAI 2 in Japanese.
It's true that the game ends on goosebumps and lose threads, so I hope that there is at least a second part.
I feel the protagonist is what apollo could / should have been in the first place.
Overall amazing game, and most likely in my overall personal top 3 of the series.
I have to say that I'm super impressed with the game. It manages to really shine on all fronts. The additions to the gameplay, namely the Jury and Joint Deductions, really help to spice things up and gives more avenues for the writers to work with. I also liked how the game is back to basics with everything and relied on really sharp characterization to push the game along. They also really used the setting well both in story and in the cases.
In particular Joint Deductions really helped improve the out of court sequences a lot. I think that has been the weakest part of the AA games in general. AAI really excelled in this area because of the different format so seeing some of that get taken in for the standard format AA is great.
The story really surprised me both in how good it was and how focused the writing was on Ryunosuke. At the same time, they really managed to build the supporting cast extremely well without bogging the game down. They really managed to differentiate Ryunosuke from Phoenix (using EN name to avoid confusing folks lol) which I thought would be a really tough thing to do but they did it.
It really has to do with the cast around him. Asougi is definitely the best character in his position that's come up in the AA games. He has this bigger than life presence and feels like he could shoulder the world if needed. That really helps shape Ryunosuke so much within the game. Susato is probably my favorite assistant in the series so far for a lot of reasons. Holmes and Iris were really good as well. I can see how some might not enjoy Holmes in this but I thought it was an interesting take on his character and it really worked well when you consider him and Watson as a pair. Gregson and the Prosecutor was pretty good but the character I really liked from the rest of the cast was Gina. They really hit all the right buttons with her, lol.
On the cases, I felt all of them were really good. My only real complaint would be the length of some of them but I know they wanted to be thorough with it. Even case 4 was a lot of fun for being a "filler" case. I think case 2 was the hardest one to figure out while the other ones were kinda easy but hard to prove. They wrapped up most of it pretty well while still leaving threads to continue into the next few games.
Comparing this to the other games. I'd say this is probably my favorite game post-AA trilogy along with AAI2. I'd say it's probably better than AA1 too overall but that's also partially because of how much experience they have with the games now.
Also, the music in this really stands out to me. First time for me with an AA game.
Oh, to be clear there still is the group that works on a translation of the game (they're a mess though).
I mean the ones who uploaded translated videos on youtube. One was dowolf who did the excellent AAI2 translation the other one was a new group.
Dowolf quit because of the other group and the other group quit because they were then harassed by fans of dowolf's translation...
so I recently started playing this and I'm almost at the 2nd case's trial.
now I'm starting to see why they wouldn't want to localize it outside Japan. This game seemingly takes a piss on anyone who isn't japanese, basically. I mean, sure given it's historical context, the representation of these foreigners seems mostly appropriate... but I can also see that many gamers who are going to play this wouldn't understand the context and may even feel insulted... I mean the foreigners in the game are truly obnoxious selfish and arrogant assholes (so far).
I have no problem with that but I can see why localizers wouldd think that some people might have... especially in the US.
besides that, the game is really fun so far and despite the use of some "old" japanese terms and hardly used kanji, it's way easier to understand than I initially anticipated... Even though my japanese isn't great, I'm still able to follow the story mostly without hiccups.
I don't think there's anything to really worry about with the racism because it is isolated to just that one character and maaaaaybe Van Zeiks. The outlook isn't praised by anyone and exists solely to vilify the killer so you feel even better when you catch them. I mean if it is really a concern, the localization could just change it to be that person looks down on poor people rather than just them being Japanese but I think consumers would be fine. I remember Teen Titans and other cartoons touched on racism a handful of times and the world kept turning.
But that's if Capcom ever decides to localize this in the future.
" Bug off Capcom!
