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Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
Between this thread and the semi-disappointing comments in the OT, my enthusiasm has plummeted massively in the last 24 hours.
I finally played through the DLC and finale of Dark Souls 1 this weekend after such a long hiatus and my hype was at critical levels too. So depressing.
I finally played through the DLC and finale of Dark Souls 1 this weekend after such a long hiatus and my hype was at critical levels too. So depressing.
cpp_is_king
Member
Luckily I'm not the type of person that loses my shit over every thing that happens that I don't agree with. After a few days of thinking about this, I think I'm not going to let it ruin my experience with the game. I'm also not going to hold out for the PC version. I do agree that the environments look more bland than we've seen in previews, and that perhaps we should change the subtitle of the OT to "The Grey Souls of Dark Souls", but overall I play Dark Souls for the boss and enemy encounters, and I always have the torch to fall back to. Even the original Dark Souls was a letdown graphically, with areas like Blighttown falling into the single digit frame rates, not to mention the final area with all the lava.
I actually think that taken by itself, if we had never seen the original screenshots that looked so much better, and if From had never touted the new lighting engine, people would look at this and think that it looked pretty much like Dark Souls, so they'd be happy.
Still, I think it's reasonable for people to be disappointed about this, and I hope the developers are questioned about it in an upcoming interview, and that we can get some insight into why this happened, and perhaps even get a patch that turns dynamic lighting back on. Either way, when tomorrow rolls around, I'll be enjoying Dark Souls 2 almost as much as I would have otherwise.
I actually think that taken by itself, if we had never seen the original screenshots that looked so much better, and if From had never touted the new lighting engine, people would look at this and think that it looked pretty much like Dark Souls, so they'd be happy.
Still, I think it's reasonable for people to be disappointed about this, and I hope the developers are questioned about it in an upcoming interview, and that we can get some insight into why this happened, and perhaps even get a patch that turns dynamic lighting back on. Either way, when tomorrow rolls around, I'll be enjoying Dark Souls 2 almost as much as I would have otherwise.
XANDER CAGE
Member
This "real fan" bullshit needs to stop. Being a fan doesn't mean ignoring or not making criticisms.
Red Liquorice
Member
This makes me wonder about some of the big DS youtubers who'e played and praised it, but haven't mentioned at all the lightning issue.
Messofanego
Banned
For real, didn't realise preordering or cancelling one was a line in the sand about judging a person's allegiance. This falls into that garbage "fake geek" shaming.
I wouldn't put too much thought into it. I have it and I didn't notice anything was changed until I saw this thread. That's why I would be pretty amazed if any reviews mention it.
They're also limited in what they're allowed to talk about pre-release. Most people who have review copies can't even say anything until midnight.
Yes.
Arbitrarily throwing out criticisms is never valid.
Thanks!
As long as the engine is not a downgrade from the original game, and it's in the same generation so why would it be, I don't see how any fan would be up-in-arms over demos vs release. It's going to be Dark Souls 2, I don't care if their are turds on the walls. Give it to me.
Orthogonal
Member
Mirror Knight comparison
Demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TowEGaVreLM
Retail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9WE_CfavQ&feature=youtu.be
The differences aren't quite as bad as the previous screen caps made it out to be, but there is still a bit of a downgrade. However, I think this looks ok.
Demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TowEGaVreLM
Retail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9WE_CfavQ&feature=youtu.be
The differences aren't quite as bad as the previous screen caps made it out to be, but there is still a bit of a downgrade. However, I think this looks ok.
zephervack
Member
Thats exactly the point, only super ultra hardcore fans that check everything will realize what the game could have been.
The truth is that the Demo is probably just a "tech showcase" of what their engine can achieve, but not something they could put into a retail title throughout the whole game, I wish they had said that.
The demo got me pretty hyped for graphics as well as gameplay, now im only hyped for the gameplay.
The staircase, the thunderstorm hall and the Mirror Knight of the demo will always be "what could have been" nothing more than that.
Cant wait to see proper comparisons, I wonder if they actually thought no one would notice the difference.
Honestly, that isn't bad at all.
The comparison in the OP makes it look much worse.
Metalingus5150
Member
They took out the color and brightened it, plus the Knight looks different.
The lighting and EVERYTHING else is still in there.
This is weird.
Cloud Strife
Member
Not horrible at all. I can see the demo version being brought to life on PC but this is perfectly fine for me.
If it was that massive of a downgrade I really think it would have stuck out to me somewhere before I saw this thread. I've gotten to the network test area but not the Mirror Knight yet though.
Storm Chamber
Banned
Cloud Strife
Member
Lol at that bow n arrow exploit though.
swazzyswess
Member
I never thought about it like that. I guess I just needed to be reminded that the graphics and lighting were what made these games great, definitely not the gameplay.
I can see why everyone thinks this is worth not buying now. FromSoft has strayed too far from its roots as technical and graphical wizards.
zephervack
Member
Lets play a game I wont tell you which one is which
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
The glares that accompanied lighting are gone. Also, the arena is way too bright and only darkens when lightning strikes lol. Framerate seems low too.
This gives support to the idea that the added brightness in the levels is due to player feedback. Fucking filthy casuals and fuck FROM for compromising the game for them.
Lets play a game I wont tell you which one is which
Left is retail. Can tell by the 'greenish' hue.
swazzyswess
Member
You can't be serious. Is this game making everyone lose their minds?
Lets play a game I wont tell you which one is which
second one is old demo
Polioliolio
Member
There are other complaints, this graphics stuff is just at the front of the deception argument. Honestly I'm more worried about things like lifegems AND estus, bonfire warping from the start, the new animations that seem to lack the weight and heaviness of the other games, etc.
Don't want to know too much though. I need to stop coming in here.
Green
Shadows less dark
Wasn't able to look at the framerate as I am at school and can't really focus too much attention on this.
Not too bad though, much better than what I was expecting.
Team Klimt
Member
Lets play a game I wont tell you which one is which
OMG absolutely NO character lighting on console version (on the right I assume). WTF!!
Shit, maybe I was wrong. The left one looks better to me here. The characters are getting correct lighting. Damn, this game is all over the place. Art direction coming in HOT
FINAL EDIT: This is not nearly as much of an issue as the torch section. I'm fine with either of these honestly.
zephervack
Member
Yep, all sorts of missing, wrong stuff with the retail one, the green hue on the ground, when the boss lands on the ground, the Demo version shows splashes of water, gone from the Retail.
I dont understand what is going on with both version.
I know this makes no sense but bear with me.
Is it possible that the Demo is a completely different executable from the Retail and that they had to remake the retail from scratch using another engine, removing simple stuff like that splash makes no sense at all, how taxing can that be, and it looks great from a artistic point of view.
This is bad. The downgrade is clear and big. and it's not only in lighting. everything now is flat and very bland. I hope sites get this story and tell more people about this bullshit. From/Namco should not get a free pass here.
zephervack
Member
Here is a list of stuff thats wrong with the Retail version of the Mirror Knight:
Your Character has no lightning. (look at the character when the thunder falls, completely flat, demo you can see light change on him)
The splash of water is missing when the boss lands the jump
Weird Green hue on ground/walls.
Skybox is horrible (demo looks like clouds)
Reflections on the boss are toned down from the Demo.
Your Character has no lightning. (look at the character when the thunder falls, completely flat, demo you can see light change on him)
The splash of water is missing when the boss lands the jump
Weird Green hue on ground/walls.
Skybox is horrible (demo looks like clouds)
Reflections on the boss are toned down from the Demo.
Cloudius12
Member
So that's why they can't call him Mirror Knight anymore...he lost his shine.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Say what? FS were never either of those things.
Looking at that mirror knight boss, it just seems like the tint of the whole scene is different and maybe the knight isn't as shiny (toned down specular?).
If someone told me that there's a bug that broke some of the rendering pipeline just before they printed the discs, and that there's a day 1 patch incoming, I would believe it.
Obviously that would change nothing on the geometry changes, but those were in the TGS demo already, from what I saw. The door frame wasn't stone blocks etc.
If someone told me that there's a bug that broke some of the rendering pipeline just before they printed the discs, and that there's a day 1 patch incoming, I would believe it.
Obviously that would change nothing on the geometry changes, but those were in the TGS demo already, from what I saw. The door frame wasn't stone blocks etc.
Robot Pants
Member
Jesus there isn't even a reflection on his shield anymore. It's just a black hole.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
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TheFNEffecT
Member
Even though I'm fairly sure the PC version will have all the bells and whistles, if we are safe to assume that the lead platform is indeed PC from what they announced, I'm sure some group of people will mod and replace it to look like how it did haha.
I still do not understand the clamoring and reasoning for a PS4/Xone version, I really believe that their next-gen statements were about the engine and how they could take that engine and use it for a next-gen game. That's just my opinion anyways.
I still do not understand the clamoring and reasoning for a PS4/Xone version, I really believe that their next-gen statements were about the engine and how they could take that engine and use it for a next-gen game. That's just my opinion anyways.
The more I see the before screenshots, the more I notice it looks way too good to be possible on the X360/PS3 without a resolution downgrade.
Mind you that the current builds and final versions are at 1280x720 and look sharp as hell.
It seems a case of last minute cutting and saving the improved engine to a Next-Gen re-release
HOWEVER, I still think the PC version will be identical to the X360/PS3 (Please I hope I'm wrong) and only a future/possible release on PS4/Xone to be improved (A la Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition)
Mind you that the current builds and final versions are at 1280x720 and look sharp as hell.
It seems a case of last minute cutting and saving the improved engine to a Next-Gen re-release
HOWEVER, I still think the PC version will be identical to the X360/PS3 (Please I hope I'm wrong) and only a future/possible release on PS4/Xone to be improved (A la Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition)
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
It seems like theyve crudely just turned some element off or ripped it out, leaving certain environments to look incorrectly lit, but when dynamic light sources kick in like torches, sunlight, or lightning, you can see environments back as they were supposed to be.
Like in the above comparison, when the lightning strikes it looks correct, but rather than return to the moody dark storm palette once previously there, it goes to some weird shitty greenish hue incorrectly lit area.
I guess all we can hope for now is it was because of technical and framerate concerns and not fucking drastic responses to focus testing and "ITS TOO DARK" being a complaint about DARK SOULS 2.
Lets play a game I wont tell you which one is which
This looks much better than I expected. It may still not be up to the demo level, but it's not that much of an issue.
zephervack
Member
Comparison of the Hall, this is fucking awful.
DEMO
RETAIL
The torches are gone.
Characted no longer gets lit when the thunder falls.
Everything looks flat.
DEMO
RETAIL
The torches are gone.
Characted no longer gets lit when the thunder falls.
Everything looks flat.
swazzyswess
Member
I was being 100% sarcastic. I didn't how else to express my astonishment that some slightly changed graphics would warrant this madness over a Souls game.
Based on people's reactions here, you might be led to believe they actually believed that about From though.
Aww man ... :-/Comparison of the Hall, this is fucking awful.
DEMO
RETAIL
The torches are gone.
Characted no longer gets lit when the thunder falls.
Everything looks flat.
I'm definitely not a pixel counter but it's disappointing how much less atmospheric the final version looks without those lights.
SneakyStephan
Banned
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these remind me of multiplatform games during the ps2/xbox area
the ps2 version always had the lighting and a bunch of effects completely missing and looked flat in comparison
in the 'run down the hallway with the epic atmosphere and statues while the lightning flashes, none of the columns draw shadows or affect the lighting anymore, it's just the window bit (that is probably faked to boot)
I'm cool even though it is disappointing, it's not as if devs cutting features and scaling back during development is anything new and it is on old hardware.
What would ppl prefer FROM keeping the lighting in and have half the game run like Blightown or cut it to keep frame rate stable which makes them look like they deceived everybody?
BTW I hope a Xbox 1 / PS4 port isn't announced for atleast 2 years, a 3 way split of the playerbase is bad enough, 5 might kill online.
What would ppl prefer FROM keeping the lighting in and have half the game run like Blightown or cut it to keep frame rate stable which makes them look like they deceived everybody?
BTW I hope a Xbox 1 / PS4 port isn't announced for atleast 2 years, a 3 way split of the playerbase is bad enough, 5 might kill online.
There's clearly lighting on the characters from the lightning in both versions. Not sure how you don't see it. Pay attention to whether he's already in a shadow from the pillars or not, that's the key.
P.S. Thunder has no light, it's a sound.
Comparison of the Hall, this is fucking awful.
DEMO
RETAIL
The torches are gone.
Characted no longer gets lit when the thunder falls.
Everything looks flat.
Again, there is clearly character lighting from the lightning in both versions. The supposed retail build certainly looks less potent, but it's there. Watch his left shoulder as he's running through the hall. Light reflects off him as the lightning flashes.
TheFNEffecT
Member
All I was able to get from them was
the "more" has me intrigued, I guess we will all see in due time.
the "more" has me intrigued, I guess we will all see in due time.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
I feel this is quite different from other cutbacks due to how FROM/Namco have been showing off the game. It's all been this much better looking set of demos without any signs of it needing to be cut to begin with. The network test ran off of the same thing. We are now a few days away from the console release and the new footage is starting to leak out. A ton of graphical features are missing and we should not excuse that in the slightest.
There's no ifs, ands or "no true soulsmans" about it. This was false advertising of their product.