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[Castor Krieg]

I'd just get wore out and feel I've gotten enough of it. I'd also look at stuff like "world tendency" and other systems and feel like to get the most out of the game I'd have to play it several times and decode a bunch of systems I'm not interested in. If they make a game where I can foresee the end and not having nagging thoughts about cryptic systems in place then good on them.

Then play other games. Nobody forces you to play Dark Souls. WTF with some people here - why everything has to be like Skyrim? Do you see other people saying constantly "put one button win move into fighting games because I am too lazy to master the mechanics"?

 

[Orayn]

I can't believe I actually have to reply to something like this seriously, but I guess here we are. Yes, what you described would absolutely be "dumbing down". There is no other way to interpret it. You already admit that you personally don't understand how people can miss the correct route. Then you suggest that the developer should make it even MORE obvious what the player should be doing. That's dumbing down. That's the game treating the player like someone dumber than it does now. That's dumbing it down. It means the game now has less respect for the gamer. No thanks.

My thoughts on this are rooted in reading accounts of people who aren't dumb, but are totally unaccustomed to games like the Souls series and wind up getting lost and discouraged when they obviously could have finished the game or at least made more progress if they had someone to put them back on the right path. Ideally, that's what the messaging system is for, and I'd hope that some of the upgrades they're alluding to would help make that a more realistic solution.

I brought up possible ways for the developers to address it through the game's design just because it pains me so much to see someone who's obviously capable of beating the game completely miss the point and get the wrong impression due to a misstep like the graveyard.

 

[H_Prestige]

you people are overreacting, accessibility doesn't equal shit.

seriously how many of you actually discovered the covenants and all their intricacies by yourself? I wouldn't mind stuff like that being more accessible to the player.

I'm sure the game will still offer the same brutal challange, dark fantasy setting as the others.

this game is going to be grossly incandescent I'm hyped for it.

Yes it does. I'm sick of games explaining shit. The fact that Dark Souls doesn't explain anything like covenants is a GOOD THING. It's obnoxious and makes games hard to play. I had to turn off the ninokuni demo after like five minutes, because I was just walking down a straight line with the game pausing the action every ten seconds either for a cutscene or to tell me what buttons to push or what commands to select.

 

[pantsmith]

Hey, so, remember somebody else didn't want to make a sequel to their awesome game, but was forced to in exchange for creative freedom?

Gee, I almost forgot that Namco-Bandai was publishing this too... I'm sure its just a coincidence

Spoiler

 

[Castor Krieg]

My thoughts on this are rooted in reading accounts of people who aren't dumb, but are totally unaccustomed to games like the Souls series and wind up getting lost and discouraged when they obviously could have finished the game or at least made more progress if they had someone to put them back on the right path. Ideally, that's what the messaging system is for, and I'd hope that some of the upgrades they're alluding to would help make that a more realistic solution.

If what you describe is true I would disagree with you there - those people are fucking dumb. Let's see, you go down the graveyard, enemies are tough, holy shit enemies don't die, holy crap, I go further down and I don't see anything!

What do you do? Maybe try another route?

 

[Defuser]

I disagree on the story. I think that even if you don't go and read item descriptions, the basic plot of the game still makes sense and the game does a good enough job at suggesting what's going on that there's no reason people should be confused by

Spoiler

the ending

as much as they are.
.

Nonsense, they only gave you one side of coin but kept the other side hidden unless you did something out of order which majority will miss out and the other side provides a even more clearer reason for the

Spoiler

endings

.

 

[duckroll]

My thoughts on this are rooted in reading accounts of people who aren't dumb, but are totally unaccustomed to games like the Souls series and wind up getting lost and discouraged when they obviously could have finished the game or at least made more progress if they had someone to put them back on the right path. Ideally, that's what the messaging system is for, and I'd hope that some of the upgrades they're alluding to would help make that a more realistic solution.

I brought up possible ways for the developers to address it through the game's design just because it pains me so much to see someone who's obviously capable of beating the game completely miss the point and get the wrong impression due to a misstep like the graveyard.

But that's part of the experience. A good open ended game which gives players enough valid choices must also give players the opportunity to learn from their own experiences playing the game. What you are describing is a mindset problem. If a player isn't used to such a game, and isn't interested in learning how to play such a game, and gets easily discouraged because of that, then it does not sound like the game is for them. They might not be dumb in other aspects, but when it comes to this game in particular, they certainly are dumb. That's okay though, not every game is for everyone, and there are games which I certainly don't 'get' either, and don't really have much of a patience for. I wouldn't really care for those games to change to cater to me either.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Nonsense, they only gave you one side of coin but kept the other side hidden unless you did something out of order which majority will miss out and the other side provides a even more clearer reason for the

Spoiler

endings.

.

And majority of gamers do not even finish games. Your point?

 

[params7]

New director also says he wants to make the intro to the game more 'welcoming' then introduce the players to the 'real dark souls' as they go on. So I guess we can say good bye to hard-as-fuck bosses within the first 5 mins..

 

[Raelson]

Yes it does. I'm sick of games explaining shit. The fact that Dark Souls doesn't explain anything like covenants is a GOOD THING. It's obnoxious and makes games hard to play. I had to turn off the ninokuni demo after like five minutes, because I was just walking down a straight line with the game pausing the action every ten seconds either for a cutscene or to tell me what buttons to push or what commands to select.

I know where you're coming from. I guess some people just can't over the fact that some people don't like games that hold your hand. All that crap is pretty much the reasons why I've stopped playing games altogether.

 

[Midou]

Yeah - It looks like they're changing what makes the Souls games good. I'll reserve my judgement for when actual game footage comes out but fuck them if they ruin this series.

Not sure footage is enough for some things. I remember being mega hyped for Demon's Souls, then saw combat and thought it looked mega generic, then playing it, it was jaw dropping, I had no idea how it could feel like this based off previously seen footage.

 

[duckroll]

Not sure footage is enough for some things. I remember being mega hyped for Demon's Souls, then saw combat and thought it looked mega generic, then playing it, it was jaw dropping, I had no idea how it could feel like this based off previously seen footage.

Yeah, I totally agree. Demon's Souls was really a case where the videos and trailers never did the game ANY justice. When playing it, every step, every attack, just FELT right. One of the most responsive and visceral combat experiences I've had. It's funny how after playing the game and knowing how it feels, going back to the same videos and trailers, it just clicks. Not knowing how the game actually feels when the controller is in your hand takes away a huge part of the experience.

 

[GotchaForce]

Then play other games.

I did! Lots of them. 30hrs wasn't enough, though?

 

[ironcreed]

.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I can't believe I actually have to reply to something like this seriously, but I guess here we are. Yes, what you described would absolutely be "dumbing down". There is no other way to interpret it. You already admit that you personally don't understand how people can miss the correct route. Then you suggest that the developer should make it even MORE obvious what the player should be doing. That's dumbing down. That's the game treating the player like someone dumber than it does now. That's dumbing it down. It means the game now has less respect for the gamer. No thanks.

And that brings us back to the Crestfallen Knight who speaks of the Undead Burg as easier in a conversational manner when spoken to. It was help to talk to him, it was help to think critically about what he was saying, it was help on the wikis/threads/etc on the matter, but what was standing in their way? Effort and Ego. Agency and exploration means nothing to someone who sees no value in effort and accpting their own shortcomings in their gaming.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I did! Lots of them. 30hrs wasn't enough, though?

Then the game is not for you. Deal with it and move on. I would love to play MOBA, but don't have the patience to learn 50 heroes and deal with shit community, so I skip those games. Nothing wrong with that. I can see that others may like it, so out of respect for them I do not go and make threads asking Valve to dumb down DOTA because I would like to play it.

 

[H_Prestige]

New director also says he wants to make the intro to the game more 'welcoming' then introduce the players to the 'real dark souls' as they go on. So I guess we can say good bye to hard-as-fuck bosses within the first 5 mins..

Casual Souls

 

[GotchaForce]

Then the game is not for you. Deal with it and move on. I would love to play MOBA, but don't have the patience to learn 50 heroes and deal with shit community, so I skip those games.

Nah, I think I'm gonna look forward to the new one.

 

[Misterinenja]

Maybe it's time for media-blackout for me.

 

[params7]

In the interview the new directors do stress on the fact that they recognize the core of what makes Dark Souls special, and they plan to keep the dark and keep the players guessing. At the same time, they say that game's mechanical systems like covenants and so on will be more explained.

We'll just have to see how this turns out but we saw the core of the game being respected in the CG trailer (lonely, chilly environments, deaths) while the lore takes more direct and less mystic approach (interaction between human NPC's like the girl).

I'm more positive overall from the info revealed so far.

 

[Lost Fragment]

It should also be mentioned that Shibuya says the knight in the trailer "is the main hero."

Not enough information out yet to justify going full-on panic mode, but lots of things in that article are worrying. My expectations are definitely lowered.

 

[Y2Kev]

My thoughts on this are rooted in reading accounts of people who aren't dumb, but are totally unaccustomed to games like the Souls series and wind up getting lost and discouraged when they obviously could have finished the game or at least made more progress if they had someone to put them back on the right path. Ideally, that's what the messaging system is for, and I'd hope that some of the upgrades they're alluding to would help make that a more realistic solution.

I brought up possible ways for the developers to address it through the game's design just because it pains me so much to see someone who's obviously capable of beating the game completely miss the point and get the wrong impression due to a misstep like the graveyard.

Why does it pain you? The whole construct of the game's design isn't going to be for everyone. Having someone be able to fail so miserably so early probably creates a fan somewhere else along the spectrum.

I have to admit I've become so impatient and frustrated with games these days that having someone explicitly point me where to go does more than implicitly tell me what I should be doing. I am not ashamed to say I was one of the retarded few who wandered aimlessly around in the beginning of Dark Souls and felt the experience was richer for it. I probably would not have done that if someone told me what I should be doing.

They might as well stick a signpost in the ground and say, "Undead Burg ->".

 

[Zeth]

Willing to bet this becomes a next gen game. And I'm so excited.

 

[ironcreed]

Whatever, guys. Until I see evidence that they have turned it into some breadcrumb trail, QTE-fest, then I am going to remain super excited for another Souls game. Have fun on that train of pessimism.

 

[SniperHunter]

so basically it's a next gen game ^_^

 

[Daante]

Just saw the scans, artwork looks amazing for some enemies/characters.

Also, this being in the same visual quality as 1313 and Watch Dogs = drools big time

Still hyped as hell.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I am cautiously optimistic but some of the parts even here sound really awful, like complete opposite that made me like DkS so much (like best game this gen much). I loved the challenge, the story and complete oldschool feel combined).


Fuck.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

It all sounds so incredible. I hope they take their time and take it into 2014 if they have to.

That said, 1313 or Watch Dogs visuals smells like bullshit. Current gen machines can't run those games at that visual caliber. We will likely get Dark Souls visuals with a few tweaks, unless they magically pull through with that PC version.

 

[Riposte]

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Just saw the scans, artwork looks amazing for some enemies/characters.

Also, this being in the same visual quality as 1313 and Watch Dogs = drools big time

Still hyped as hell.

I'd like to know how much of what has been said is hyperbole and how much is accurate of what it will look like on a nice PC.

 

[TimeEffect]

Better action. You know, like addressing this stuff:





Making it harder to accidentally wander into the New Londo Ruins or graveyard at the start of the game wouldn't exactly have made Dark Souls worse. And while I love From Software's "show, don't tell" philosophy with regard to story, it could have been made a little easier to tell what was going on.

Apologies, and thank you.

I hope we see a Demon's Souls 2. If Dark Souls is going the open world route, I'd love old school dungeon crawler for Demon's Souls. But that can easily saturate the brand. As happy as I am, I'd rather see Dark 2 as a next gen launch title, but it sounds like they are juicing the current engine for all its worth.

Maybe we will see a new King's Field?

 

[Aeana]

Some of the things mentioned do give me pause, but I'm just going to wait patiently and see how it turns out.

 

[Midou]

I can't believe I actually have to reply to something like this seriously, but I guess here we are. Yes, what you described would absolutely be "dumbing down". There is no other way to interpret it. You already admit that you personally don't understand how people can miss the correct route. Then you suggest that the developer should make it even MORE obvious what the player should be doing. That's dumbing down. That's the game treating the player like someone dumber than it does now. That's dumbing it down. It means the game now has less respect for the gamer. No thanks.

The thing is, he DOES tell you where to go, I guess some players aren't familiar with the concept of talking to an NPC multiple times until you've exhausted their dialog.

 

[dimb]

There are many aspects of Dark Souls that feel underdeveloped to me, so hearing that more resources are being funneled into the project is pretty exciting.

 

[vidcons]

I'm sure there is a balance between needing a wiki to explain the game and the game explaining itself that wouldn't be too hard to reach from Dark Souls current approach.

The morality system is worrying, but I'm going to assume it's more like world tendencies from DeS than something like Bioshock.

 

[dimb]

The morality system is worrying, but I'm going to assume it's more like world tendencies from DeS than something like Bioshock.

There was already character tendency in the first game.

 

[doomquake]

- The new directors, Tomohiro Shibuya and Yui Tanimura, are indeed the From Software staff who previously directed the Another Century's Episode series. The decision to have the two directors replace Miyazaki was a company decision made by both From Software and Namco Bandai Games to help move the series forward in a fresh direction.

- Miyazaki is working full time on directing a new game. He will not disclose if it is a new IP or a sequel to something else.

- One thing Shibuya wants to enhance is the action in the game. He feels that he can contribute because of his experience working on action games in the past.

 

[duckroll]

There are many aspects of Dark Souls that feel underdeveloped to me, so hearing that more resources are being funneled into the project is pretty exciting.

Yeah, I think that is also a clear indication that the project was viewed as a success by Namco and From. If it wasn't they wouldn't be spending even more money on the sequel. Hopefully if it turns out well, this means we will avoid having the problems of the final 1/3 of the game being filled with areas which feel much poorly designed than the rest of the game, and filled with filler crap.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I'm sure there is a balance between needing a wiki to explain the game and the game explaining itself that wouldn't be too hard to reach from Dark Souls current approach.

The morality system is worrying, but I'm going to assume it's more like world tendencies from DeS than something like Bioshock.

Dark Souls has a morality system. It just doesn't work very well. So poorly in fact that most people don't realize there's a morality system.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Some of the things mentioned do give me pause, but I'm just going to wait patiently and see how it turns out.

That's how I feel. Fucking Namco man....I don't know.

 

[vidcons]

There was already character tendency in the first game.

I'm aware?

Dark Souls has a morality system. It just doesn't work very well. So poorly in fact that most people don't realize there's a morality system.

Elaborate? I think I know what you mean but I don't think I call that a morality system, or at least one that resembles or functions like the standard current gen one.

 

[Pumpkins]

Dark Souls has a morality system. It just doesn't work very well. So poorly in fact that most people don't realize there's a morality system.

Wait... How? Book of the guilty and the darkmoon covenant?

While I don't want Dark Souls to change THAT much, the changes could be good on some ends. My main concern is just to keep the storyline subtle, but it looks like they're going to change that, too.

Dark Souls 2 might just be a new flavor for the Souls games.

 

[i-Lo]

A word of advice to developers: Don't try and design the next game to sell to "frat boys" and remember that "focus test groups" can irrevocably damage this brand's reputation if not chosen well.

 

[Sentenza]

Elaborate? I think I know what you mean but I don't think I call that a morality system, or at least one that resembles or functions like the standard current gen one.

Same here. I can guess what he's talking about but I wouldn't call that a "morality system" at all.
In fact the game is pretty much amoral about how you should deal with other characters.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I'm aware?



Elaborate? I think I know what you mean but I don't think I call that a morality system, or at least one that resembles or functions like the standard current gen one.

Darkmoons. From what's described in the article, it sounds like the morality system could be Darkmoon-like except perhaps you're being chased by computer-controlled monsters instead of (on top of?) players.

 

[dimb]

I'm aware?

Okay. It just seems like a morality system to me. Certain player actions were weighted and judged. The introduction of a morality system doesn't seem that worrying to me because it is something the series has already known.

 

[I'm an expert]

Bad feeling about this one. Might stick with the Miyazaki twins instead.

 

[Maedhros]

I'll just wait, instead of overract like GAF always does.

 

[Totobeni]

- Edge says they were shown a 10 minute playthrough of Dark Souls 2, and it is a huge step forward graphically. It looks on par with Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 in terms of "next-gen"-ness, or so they claim.

this is very very hard to believe.

but maybe they've changed the engine this time

 

[Kusagari]

Fuck Scamco.

This only confirms their status as one of the worst companies in video games.