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[The Lamp]

It's easy to see that this thread is about a bunch if gamers organizing to throw a large hissy fit on Twitter because the game has different lighting than what they expected. C'mon the game looks fine. I cant believe that something so little could ruin your enjoyment of an IP that you really love. But go right ahead and I wish you luck to achieve whatever your purpose is.

You really don't get it lol. It's not just about the way it looks. It looks like a ps2 games at times, but it's still a fun game. I am playing through it.

The point is the lighting engine they talked about is practically absent. This means torches have almost no purpose in most areas of the game, which was a significant game mechanic they've advertised since it was revealed. Using torches to light the dark areas made you decide whether to use the torch or keep a shield/weapon in that hand to progress. You had to move cautiously. That is completely gone from the game now. There's no real darkness. You can see everything. But there's still unlit torches left around the game that are completely unnecessary as vestigial relics of them basically removing this gameplay feature without telling anyone.

It would be one thing if it just looked shittier. It does but that's not all. It actually is missing what was marketed as a critical game design feature with no mention until the game was already shipped to stores.

 

[theusedversion]

So we can have 20 page threads dedicated to 1080p vs 720p, which will never be news, but when a company straight lies up until release about the graphics, the thread should close?

Who is helped by this?

I think those threads about resolutions are ridiculous.

And I never said the thread should close. By all means do your thing. I just wish you guys could enjoy the game for what it is. Had this lighting been shown the whole time you would have never cared about it so why let it ruin the game for you now?

 

[DryvBy]

#youshouldhavewaitedforthePCversion

Ha, no. The PC version of the original without mods looks like trash for a PC game. And if they've lied about the console versions, why trust the PC version?

 

[coolasj19]

Honestly, I thought either Y2Kev made the topic or modded the title.

I remember the deal with the lightning affecting gameplay. I'm not gonna say I'm disappointed it's not there, I don't like the Souls games, but they deserve to get called out. They should know their fanbase is a percentage of hardcore fans.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Yet they continued to advertise parts of the game that were not present due to these 'changes'.

because it would generate bad press, possible loss of sales and disrupt the hype train.

Like I keep saying if the PC version doesn't look like that then people are really gonna be pissed at them. If it does look like that then they will probably just say "oh yeah it was PC footage before"

 

[Wensih]

After we're all done complaining about the lighting, let's go enjoy a good Whopper from Burger King. The burgers always look exactly like the advertisement. After we're done complaining about Dark Souls II and eating good nourishing food, we can can go back to enjoying Dark Souls II.

 

[CountAntonius]

At this point this is just more fuel, but I feel any moran would be able to tell that first .gif is sure as shit not the same hardware we've been playing games on since 2006.

Yeah they honestly should have never showed that footage that they probably made with PC as the lead and realized "oh wait...this isn't gonna work.".

 

[Fbh]

You know I wouldn't even mind the downgrade so much if it wasn't for the lack of dragons =(

 

[akira28]

At this point this is just more fuel, but I feel any moran would be able to tell that first .gif is sure as shit not the same hardware we've been playing games on since 2006.

Maybe not, but I'm getting a sinking feeling that PC won't have this either. And I will not be happy...

 

[Manus]

Whether that's true or not we'll never know. It's not really the point at hand though either



Again, not the point. The quality of the game isn't the point of contention here. Seems a lot of people are just wading into these threads and leaving their 2 cents without fully understanding what people are talking about or are so mad about in the first place

Oh you mean the false advertising? The same false advertising that is in almost every TV/food ad? It happens. The game was clearly an early build and they changed some stuff. Games change quite a lot in development. People really need to understand that.

 

[Foaloal]

I don't think anybody is really raging or up in arms over this so the "anti-movement" seems unnecessary.

Personally I understand that games are subject to change up until release, and even afterwards these days, but this change just seems confusing.

From what I understand the PS3 beta builds were much closer to the trailer builds, so if that's the case it is strange that things were changed and downgraded in many areas.

Ultimately I think we will all understand if it was due to performance issues, but I feel that at the least we deserve some clarification on why things changed so dramatically and why there are apparently screenshots of a different engine on the box.

I was really impressed with the graphics I saw in the trailers. I thought to myself they seemed like a massive leap from Dark Souls 1, and I was surprised they could apparently run on the now last gen consoles.

Seeing the screenshots now from the retail build it seems that they are about equal to Dark Souls 1 at best. In several ways they actually seem inferior to DS1, though I haven't done a comprehensive side by side comparison.

I really hope the "increased texture resolution" on the PC version really means things will be closer to the engine that I was impressed by in the trailers.

Ultimately I don't think anyone is angry, but I do feel a bit confused about the changes and a bit disappointed that the graphics aren't the huge step up they appeared to be. I think most of us will still play and enjoy the game, but it would be nice to know what happened to the old engine.

 

[Cat Party]

Honestly thought this was a joke when I clicked on it.

 

[Jarate]

You really don't get it lol. It's not just about the way it looks. It looks like a ps2 games at times, but it's still a fun game. I am playing through it.

The point is the lighting engine they talked about is practically absent. This means torches have almost no purpose in most areas of the game, which was a significant game mechanic they've advertised since it was revealed. Using torches to light the dark areas made you decide whether to use the torch or keep a shield/weapon in that hand to progress. You had to move cautiously. That is completely gone from the game now. There's no real darkness. You can see everything. But there's still unlit torches left around the game that are completely unnecessary as vestigial relics of them basically removing this gameplay feature without telling anyone.

It would be one thing if it just looked shittier. It does but that's not all. It actually is missing what was marketed as a critical game design feature with no mention until the game was already shipped to stores.

I found Torches to be incredibly helpful

Spoiler

in the gutter and subsequent areas

Sure you can still kind of see ahead, but you're visibility is incredibly limited. Plus you can't target things that well

 

[Wishmaster92]

"Changes were made during development due to performance issues".

not good enough NAMCO!

 

[rashbeep]

-_-

Lol just noticed your post above mine. And yea I honestly don't see anything about the first footage that looks impossible on those consoles. I mean at least keep the art direction intact, if you have to lower some on-screen assets.

 

[Havel]

I just want to know the status of the PC version.

I mentioned this in the OP as this is something a lot of people want to know. They have videos on the Steam page from the reveal footage advertising the game. Pretty damn shoddy if you ask me.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

That's far more unforgivable than just cutting back for optimization, like you've been implying they did. If you think even a layperson should be able to know that isn't footage of a PS3/360 game, then there's no reason for Namco and From to lie about what the game would look like on those consoles.

I don't get where this "core feature" line comes from either. Whatever, I don't want to call everyone who's not me an idiot. Personally I see noting but "cutting back for optimziation". I mean, what else do you call it?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Oh you mean the false advertising? The same false advertising that is in almost every TV/food ad? It happens. The game was clearly an early build and they changed some stuff. Games change quite a lot in development. People really need to understand that.

People do understand that.

 

[atr0cious]

Had this lighting been shown the whole time you would have never cared about it so why let it ruin the game for you now?

What does this sentence mean?

Have you read the thread at all?

I already tried to address this in my previous post, but I'll say it again: whether or not the game is still good has nothing to do with this. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Other things being good does not mean it's not worth pointing out things that are less good. Do we have to unconditionally love every episode of our favorite TV show? Do we even have to love every single aspect of our favorite episode?

I don't think you'll find much argument here: Dark Souls 2 is good. However, it has a pretty glaring problem: the removal of a much-touted lighting system that was meant to be a core mechanic of the game. To be honest, I don't even mind that they removed it - what I mind is the total silence on the subject leading up to release, and the fact that the decision to change the lighting was so last minute that FROM left remnants of the system in plain sight. I keep harping on the sconces torches, but seriously: apart from one area of the game, there is no need to ever use a torch, even though they're clearly supposed to be a central feature.

Torches have their own dedicated inventory slot and resource management (time) system, and sconces are everywhere. As I mentioned in a previous post, there is a rare item that can be wasted on a reward of a giant torch in a relatively early area that is useless in the final build because you could see everything just fine anyway. There's zero stress involved in managing torch time because you can easily acquire 50+ minutes of burn time, as there is nothing to use the torches for. All of this remains, yet none of it really does anything.

Dark Souls 2 is good. That doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to what was obviously a rushed, poor decision.

People want what they were promised, that's it. If you like companies being able to lie to you, you should just move along, because people in this thread want some accountability.

 

[Tidus_Great]

maybe the real graphics will be released when they do a ps4 version?

i mean it's a large scope game on ps3/360 which are like 7-8 years old now lol

 

[Clear]

So we should only criticize bait-and-switch tactics if the game is panned?

If something is critically acclaimed then how significant can the "problem" be?

It undermines the complainants position, making their argument seem petty and specious under the circumstances.

 

[The Lamp]

If you wanna see how bad some of the downgraded areas are, check this out from the other thread.

Found footage of the mansion of the dragons. There's no way anybody anywhere can't claim this game hasn't been completely gutted. Just look at this shit, LOOK AT THIS SHIT:

LOOK AT THE PLAYER'S SHADOW

 

[CountAntonius]

Maybe not, but I'm getting a sinking feeling that PC won't have this either. And I will not be happy...

At best the PC footage will have the missing lighting from the current build but no way it will look like the reveal footage where everything is different.

 

[atr0cious]

After we're all done complaining about the lighting, let's go enjoy a good Whopper from Burger King. The burgers always look exactly like the advertisement. After we're done complaining about Dark Souls II and eating good nourishing food, we can can go back to enjoying Dark Souls II.

So Burger King is now good food?

Think about that, you just equated Dark Souls II, to shitty fast food. If Dark souls was $2, this thread wouldn't exist though.

 

[Randdalf]

Why in the third GIF in the OP, is the character not carrying the torch? It seems rather inconsistent to make such a comparison when you're not even doing it in the same conditions, especially when the middle one is being recorded off-screen.

 

[SargerusBR]

You know I wouldn't even mind the downgrade so much if it wasn't for the lack of dragons =(

The dragons are still there just in a greatly reduced number

 

[jacksepticeye]

Oh you mean the false advertising? The same false advertising that is in almost every TV/food ad? It happens. The game was clearly an early build and they changed some stuff. Games change quite a lot in development. People really need to understand that.

Understanding it is not the same as being ok with it. Especially since they never mentioned scaling back the game nor did they change their stance on their marketing or promotion of the game. They still sold the game under the old build

 

[Jarate]

If you wanna see how bad some of the downgraded areas are, check this out from the other thread.

not to be devils advocates but those screenshots are all horribly compressed and look like absolute ass

the lighting has been downgraded though, although, the Torch lighting was really good when I used it.

 

[cr_blah_blah]

If they had to cut that much from the builds they were showing and the game still runs like shit, how much of a train wreck was it before?

 

[Archaix]

I don't get where this "core feature" line comes from either. Whatever, I don't want to call everyone who's not me an idiot. Personally I see noting but "cutting back for optimziation". I mean, what else do you call it?

I don't know whether it was a core feature, I didn't play any of the beta or follow the coverage closely enough to know about how the torch was used. I'd call it what it is though. Dishonesty and lying to present the product as better than it actually is. And I think that's something that shouldn't be accepted, whether it is a minor aspect of the game or not.

 

[Nags]

Finding it hard to get into this thread while enjoying the game on PS3.

Exactly. Why should I be mad again?

 

[Branduil]

If something is critically acclaimed then how significant can the "problem" be?

It undermines the complainants position, making their argument seem petty and specious under the circumstances.

Argumentum ad populum.

 

[Gbraga]

"Changes were made during development due to performance issues".

It would be that simple if there wasn't a PC version to come out. If performance was the only reason, at least the lighting has to come back for the PC version, since the game is still clearly designed for it, they didn't redesign the torch centered dungeons, just made them brighter so you wouldn't need it.

 

[enoki]

You really don't get it lol. It's not just about the way it looks. It looks like a ps2 games at times, but it's still a fun game. I am playing through it.

The point is the lighting engine they talked about is practically absent. This means torches have almost no purpose in most areas of the game, which was a significant game mechanic they've advertised since it was revealed. Using torches to light the dark areas made you decide whether to use the torch or keep a shield/weapon in that hand to progress. You had to move cautiously. That is completely gone from the game now. There's no real darkness. You can see everything. But there's still unlit torches left around the game that are completely unnecessary as vestigial relics of them basically removing this gameplay feature without telling anyone.

It would be one thing if it just looked shittier. It does but that's not all. It actually is missing what was marketed as a critical game design feature with no mention until the game was already shipped to stores.

I understand being upset by the changes in lighting, though I personally am not concerned; but I don't understand how everyone continues to post that torches are useless.
I've found a fair number of secrets that were hidden by torches, and mobs react pretty interestingly to them, as well. There are even still areas that are incredibly dark. Turn your brightness down.

 

[Havel]

https://twitter.com/JKartje/status/444316297526923265

JK nearly saw this thread.

 

[BPoole]

After we're all done complaining about the lighting, let's go enjoy a good Whopper from Burger King. The burgers always look exactly like the advertisement. After we're done complaining about Dark Souls II and eating good nourishing food, we can can go back to enjoying Dark Souls II.

Meet me a Mickey D's, man

Seriously though, false/purposefully misleading advertising is getting out of hand, and I definitely don't have gripes with people being upset about this.

 

[xBladeM6x]

That's crazy. I'm assuming even if the PC version will look different, it will look better, but not like the TGS build either. Seems they entirely changed assets and environments, while also downgrading them for console.

 

[koryuken]

I love DS2 and I think its a good game. I do not think its ok for FROM/NAMCO to show bullshit builds up to release and then have graphics/features suddenly removed for the retail. Fuck the haters, I will do my part. Sign me up for #YouLied.

 

[The Lamp]

not to be devils advocates but those screenshots are all horribly compressed and look like absolute ass

the lighting has been downgraded though, although, the Torch lighting was really good when I used it.

They could be avatar resolution and it would still be easy to see the difference. I can see it easily as thumbnails on my phone.

 

[Htown]

If something is critically acclaimed then how significant can the "problem" be?

It undermines the complainants position, making their argument seem petty and specious under the circumstances.

They aren't doing you a favor by releasing the game; they're offering a product, which they want your money for. It's not petty to be promised something in a product, give money based on your overall want for that product (which is influenced by the promise), and then complain because the promise never materialized.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I don't know whether it was a core feature, I didn't play any of the beta or follow the coverage closely enough to know about how the torch was used. I'd call it what it is though. Dishonesty and lying to present the product as better than it actually is. And I think that's something that shouldn't be accepted, whether it is a minor aspect of the game or not.

Inconsistency between prelease and "final" software should absolutely be accepted. I won't say it should be expected, but I will heavily imply that those who don't expect it are naive. Would Dark Souls2 be better with that uber HDR lighting! Hell yeah? Was anyone swindled out of there money purely by now broken promise more defined shadows? No.

 

[Jarate]

They could be avatar resolution and it would still be easy to see the difference. I can see it easily as thumbnails on my phone.

It gives people a bad idea of what the game looks like though, which is why Im kind of against them

But there were lighting downgrades

 

[Htown]

Exactly. Why should I be mad again?

Other people care about different things than you. Shock and terror!

 

[Mr. Luchador]

https://twitter.com/JKartje/status/444316297526923265

JK nearly saw this thread.

JK has.

J. Kartje ‏@JKartje 6s

@BigBoss154 @attris @NamcoBandaiUK @namcogames Thanks!

 

[nailbombxx]

And people defended Bamco's choice to go last gen with this one.

 

[RK9039]

Colonial Marines didn't have a 90% Metacritic.

True, because Colonial Marines didn't have this either:

(thanks to Ghazi for this).

 

[legacyzero]

This is such a damn shame. The game looked incredible. I wonder if they are saving it for the "Definitive Version?"

I hope the PC has some of these bells and whistles.

 

[koryuken]

Inconsistency between prelease and "final" software should absolutely be accepted. I won't say it should be expected, but I will heavily imply that those who don't expect it are naive. Would Dark Souls2 be better with that uber HDR lighting! Hell yeah? Was anyone swindled out of there money purely by now broken promise more defined shadows? No.

So you would be ok with Sony showing the CGI "Killzone 2 E3 trailer" up until release and then releasing a game with PS2 graphics and missing features? Got it...

 

[Archaix]

Inconsistency between prelease and "final" software should absolutely be accepted. I won't say it should be expected, but I will heavily imply that those who don't expect it are naive. Would Dark Souls2 be better with that uber HDR lightingt? Hell yeah? Was anyone swindled out of there money purely by now broken promise more defined shadows? No.

Inconsistency is one thing, but you said yourself

At this point this is just more fuel, but I feel any moran would be able to tell that first .gif is sure as shit not the same hardware we've been playing games on since 2006.

It's an entirely different subject if we're saying that they had something they were working on six months ago, found out it didn't work, and then ditched it. That happens, that's development. This is blatant lying though. If you don't even think it's conceivable that the game in the first gif is a 360/PS3 game, why the hell should anybody accept when the publisher and developer go around telling people that's exactly what it is? This isn't an issue of features or gameplay aspects being talked about at a trade show, these videos were put out in the past two months. They knew that the game wouldn't look or work that way, and they led people to believe that it would.

 

[Korezo]

Has anyone compared retail version to the pics of DS2 on steam? Are the steam pics the demoed version?