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DD Fraud: Sony is Embezzling 2 Games from Me (Everybody's Tennis/Motorstor:AE)

scy

Member
Well, if they're found this quickly/easily and taken down like this I think I'll stick with physical copies of Gungnir/Growlanser afterall. I'd like to play them on the Vita, but combining this with the fact I don't think Hakuoki is playable on the Vita STILL and it seems better to not bother with the PSN version except as a second cheap copy.

I'm torn on those two. I mean, I too would love to play them on the Vita but ... will I sit on them until they're confirmed to work? Hm...

ITT:

People who hate dirty fucking pirates for stealing games from corporations but are fine with justified business interests removing games from paying consumers

Because it leads to the former! Really, I'm fine with it if they were more transparent on the why and if they get put back up in a timely manner. Since that probably won't happen, though... :/
 

MrPliskin

Banned
I couldn't disagree more. Sony chooses to handle things this way and sees depriving people of a game they paid for as an acceptable behavior.

Homebrew didn't take these games away, Sony did.

Hopefully, they'll refund people and that will be that but not saying a thing about it is already a very shitty thing to do.

FWIW, I think Apple does the same thing with apps.

Oh Jesus...

We all know homebrew on these devices rarely give anything beneficial outside of emulators. Typically some time later another group will take this work and adapt it to run legal ripped copies of their games, and that is eventually used to pirate software.

This is a logical sequence of events.

The fact that this guy mockingly made it public was the *cause*. It harbors some of the blame. The *effect* is that Sont dicks around and does bullshit like this.

Both parties are wrong in how they do what they do. The homebrew kid didn't have to publicly challenge Sony, just because he wanted to prove he could beat the security (for publicity no less).

Sony, on the other hand, SHOULD remove the software, while simultaneously crediting every purchaser the full price of the title.

Again, both parties took the wrong action, and in the end the core user is effected more than anyone else.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Still blown away that no one is upset with the pompous kid who made all this happen...because he wanted homebrew?

I'm sure he had a LONG line of *awesome* software planned for us all. Can't these kids just remain the attention starved shit heads they have always been, instead of challenging Sony at OUR expense?

You're blaming him? Sony is to blame. No one else.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Just out of curiousity, why would you want to download these two games at this point? I just find it interesting that you want to download this game right now, one day after it was revealed that it could be used for exploiting. Could be a pure coincidence, that is why i ask :)


Console DD, you mean. I hope.
It goes for any DD actually. Once the servers/content are taken down for whatever reason, you cant download it anymore.
 

Eusis

Member
Console DD, you mean. I hope.
Ideally we'd have a lot of pro-consumer regulation get slapped in first that ensures a DD future can avoid cheap tricks like this. And frankly, in this case it's unnecessary, blacklist this version of the game for Vita use, and when/if the issue it patched then make it Vita compatible with a new copy you download. It'd actually have probably been BETTER if the exploits were released first, in case SCEA is pulling these and WAITING to see what the exploit is and how to fix it.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's going to have those games patched and then placed back in the market. (Though I wouldn't be too surprised if they didn't...)

I believe that's what Nintendo did when the exploits in DSiWare games like EA's Sudoku were found. They removed the game from the store, then when the developer patched the game, they put it back up.

Still blown away that no one is upset with the pompous kid who made all this happen...because he wanted homebrew?

I'm sure he had a LONG line of *awesome* software planned for us all. Can't these kids just remain the attention starved shit heads they have always been, instead of challenging Sony at OUR expense?

Homebrew is a good thing. A lot of good comes from it, like XBMC (originally Xbox homebrew, now very popular), Colors! (originally DS homebrew, pressure sensitive drawing for cheap), ScummVM on your TV, or emulators that run games at native resolution. (Seriously... That alone makes homebrew on the Wii worth it IMO.)

The fact that Sony is punishing legitimate customers because they're afraid they'll use the security hole to turn to piracy is separate from homebrew.
 

Mako_Drug

Member
Welcome to the wonderful world of digital distribution, where companies have the power to take your games away for any reason they see fit and there's nothing you can do about it. Isn't it great?

Be reasonable and keep a back up of the game, as you would any other worthwhile data?
 
They should refund the price you paid at least if they never plan to put it back up. Wary of DD whether its on console or pc. You get a license to play the game, but don't actually own it. Title is funny OP LOL.
 
It goes for any DD actually. Once the servers/content are taken down for whatever reason, you cant download it anymore.

Really? What about GoG? You don't need the servers to download GoG games. They come without any sort of DRM.

Even with Steam, I don't know many who would have a problem with you downloading games you purchased if Valve were somehow to go bankrupt and Steam was taken offline.

GoG is the perfect DD.

You can't download it from that server/service anymore specifically.

Exactly.
 

Alchemy

Member
Stating facts != agreeing that they're right or wrong.

I love how people jump on an opinion no one expressed because they posted the facts of software licensing. You don't have to like it, and I'm certain most people don't, but that doesn't change the fact that software is licensed to people for use and this includes games and physically distributed software. It is simply harder to disable access to physically distributed software.
 

epmode

Member
It goes for any DD actually. Once the servers/content are taken down for whatever reason, you cant download it anymore.
I've been in this race since Steam was first launched and I've only had one case where a company completely removed access from a legitimately purchased game (Gamefly). The DD horror stories are just that.

I mean, you're right. But if you stick with established companies that treat their customers with respect, you'll be fine.

I wouldn't trust any of the console manufacturers, by the way. The whole no-competition ruins it.
 
I must assume that everyone upholding EULAs as the law must be from the U.S.A.
They don't really hold any legal power in most reasonable countries.
 

Wazzim

Banned
what property? what precisely did you own? the game's source code? you owned a license to play the game at sony's discretion. sony's discretion is such that nobody should be playing those games because of exploits.

the title of this thread is absolutely laughable.

GAF's defense force library is insanely big. One could say that everybody and everything is covered.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Why is this not a big story that people are having games taken with no explanation/refund? Disgusting.

You're right, it should be a big story. I'm surprised I didn't see anything when Motorstorm:AE was taken down. Hopefully this time it'll light a fire
 
There's absolutely no way you won't get a refund. Just keep emailing/phoning support and keep it simple, you bought a game, you don't have access to it, you want the game back or the money.


However if this is a case of the game only being temporarily removed to fix the exploit then yeah they might not refund you, just make sure they let you know exactly what's going on.



You're right, it should be a big story. I'm surprised I didn't see anything when Motorstorm:AE was taken down. Hopefully this time it'll light a fire
Where were you when apple removed tons of games/apps without refunds?
 
At this point, I kind of wish the hackers would just start trolling Sony by posting an endless list of games that allow exploits.Doesn't matter. It's gone from the PAL Store as well and the game's EULA doesn't mean anything over here.

What purpose would that serve? Piracy scares the shit out of Sony after what happened to the PSP, they will nuke the games from the store, essentially killing backward compatibility, you gain nothing other than misery inflicted on people who get their games taken away and unable to play PSP games on their vita, aside from maybe some shits and giggles on your end, it doesn't achieve anything in terms of upholding any kind of principle, if that's your thing then wish away.
 

theBishop

Banned
IMG_20120221_1905251-662x496.jpg


still necessary.
 

MrPliskin

Banned
You're blaming him? Sony is to blame. No one else.

I'm not blaming him entirely, but he absolutely does harbor some of the burden. He didn't have to public ally announce the exploit SPECIFICALLY to incite this response from Sony, already knowing exactly what would happen (since it happened before) but he did.

He was wrong, Sony was wrong. I'm not supporting one over the other, just saying both approached their given situations in the poorest of ways, which ultimately brought us to this point.
 
what property? what precisely did you own? the game's source code? you owned a license to play the game at sony's discretion. sony's discretion is such that nobody should be playing those games because of exploits.

the title of this thread is absolutely laughable.

But the case at hand isn't. Consumer rights and licenses aside, this isn't right.
 

Cels

Member
I understand why they removed those titles, but that is only the first step. The second step should have been to explain that there was some exploit and that was their reasoning for removing the game, and you would get a credit on your account accordingly.
 
I slowly but surely reached the point where I am very careful about what I buy via DD. I don't buy anything on PSN, just Steam and the rare DLCs on XBL that I can't live without.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Ideally we'd have a lot of pro-consumer regulation get slapped in first that ensures a DD future can avoid cheap tricks like this. And frankly, in this case it's unnecessary, blacklist this version of the game for Vita use, and when/if the issue it patched then make it Vita compatible with a new copy you download. It'd actually have probably been BETTER if the exploits were released first, in case SCEA is pulling these and WAITING to see what the exploit is and how to fix it.
The exploit is already released.


Really? What about GoG? You don't need the servers to download GoG games. They come without any sort of DRM.

Even with Steam, I don't know many who would have a problem with you downloading games you purchased if Valve were somehow to go bankrupt and Steam was taken offline.

GoG is the perfect DD.
Pirated versions makes it possible yes. I'm thinking about downloading from the official servers where one bought something from.
 

Shiggy

Member
What does that particular golf game's EULA say about it being your property? And I'm not trying to be a douchebag, because it's crucial.

He's from Germany, the EULA from that particular game he has probably not agreed to when he bought the title. Therefore it is not valid. In addition, the EULA is also not valid if there are some surprising conditions.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
I've been in this race since Steam was first launched and I've only had one case where a company completely removed access from a legitimately purchased game (Gamefly). The DD horror stories are just that.

I mean, you're right. But if you stick with established companies that treat their customers with respect, you'll be fine.

I wouldn't trust any of the console manufacturers, by the way. The whole no-competition ruins it.
Depends if the company goes out business. Even the established ones can go out of business. But yeah, this is more in the "can happen" category.
 

theBishop

Banned
Still blown away that no one is upset with the pompous kid who made all this happen...because he wanted homebrew?

I'm sure he had a LONG line of *awesome* software planned for us all. Can't these kids just remain the attention starved shit heads they have always been, instead of challenging Sony at OUR expense?

You buy a computer, you should be able to run code of your choosing on it.

If Sony wants to patch either these games or the Vita hypervisor to fix their security vulnerability, I wouldn't object. But simply removing access to a game a customer bought is not justifiable. Certainly not if Sony wants people to buy their products digitally.
 

boingball

Member
A year ago I bought a cheap PSP go to get the 10 free DD game associated with a purchase. One of the games included in this deal was Motorstor:AE. A few weeks ago Sony, without any warning, removed the title from the store and my PSN(SEN) download list. I don't know why and, to be honest, I didn't care all that much. It was "free" after all.

But now Sony did the same with Everybody's Tennis a game that I paid €24.95 for. No refund, no Email, no explanation, nothing. What the fuck is Sony thinking? I called the helpline (Germany) and got the "We're sorry but we can't help you right now" BS line. Does someone know a way to resolve the issue? Do I have any right to get my property back?

I hope Sony resolves this issue quick. Right now I will stop any SEN purchases. This is ridiculous. Yay, DD future.

Welcome to the world of DD, where you are only a renter of games/books/movies instead of an owner. This is why publishers love DD. They can sell it to you for full retail price (and there is basically no competition in the DD retail space, hence there are no discounts like in the real world), they can limit your usage (i.e. you can't use it from different countries, you can use it only on a limited amount of devices, you can't give it to your family/friends, you can't resell it, ...) and if they so choose they can even remove it.

Just be happy that they did not remove it from your device (I assume you have downloaded it already to your PSP?). Amazon does that with the Kindle (removing books you bought on your device).

And since you are in Germany I fear you are screwed. In the US you might be able to get a class-action going.

what property? what precisely did you own? the game's source code? you owned a license to play the game at sony's discretion. sony's discretion is such that nobody should be playing those games because of exploits.

the title of this thread is absolutely laughable.

Lol.
 

MrPliskin

Banned
You buy a computer, you should be able to run code of your choosing on it.

If Sony wants to patch either these games or the Vita hypervisor to fix their security vulnerability, I wouldn't object. But simply removing access to a game a customer bought is not justifiable. Certainly not if Sony wants people to buy their products digitally.

None of these devices are computers with public ally available SDKs and the Eco-system is worlds different from a computer...
 

Synless

Member
what property? what precisely did you own? the game's source code? you owned a license to play the game at sony's discretion. sony's discretion is such that nobody should be playing those games because of exploits.

the title of this thread is absolutely laughable.

This is why I do not buy DD.
 

snap0212

Member
What purpose would that serve? Piracy scares the shit out of Sony after what happened to the PSP, they will nuke the games from the store, you gain nothing other than misery inflicted on people who get their games taken away aside from maybe some shits and giggles on your end, it doesn't achieve anything in terms of upholding any kind of principle, if that's your thing then wish away.
It would force them to approach this differently. Now it's affecting a few users but once more games get taken down, people will really start to ask questions. They'll have to answer questions, they'll have to deal with the negative side effects of taking away products people have paid for.

Especially since the fact that Sony can actually delete the files and make them unavailable at any time is hidden behind a wall of text. What they want you to think is pointed out in a short sentence on their website.

KGXPT.png

Source: http://uk.playstation.com/psn/suppo...6637/item73619/Introducing-PlayStation-Store/
 

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
I bought all those games on PSN. DD is really convenient, but things like this makes me wonder whether its worth it or not.

But the most interesting thing here is how fast Sony removed the game from the store, looks like they absolutely don't want Vita to get hacked.
 

kadotsu

Banned
These two games excist as pirated versions. Or am i missing what you mean? I ment that any DD service can go down, and then you cant download anymore content from that service anymore.

But last time I checked SEN still exists. I must know since I needed to log in to not see my purchased games. So this argument is void in this case.
 
You buy a computer, you should be able to run code of your choosing on it.

If Sony wants to patch either these games or the Vita hypervisor to fix their security vulnerability, I wouldn't object. But simply removing access to a game a customer bought is not justifiable. Certainly not if Sony wants people to buy their products digitally.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Sony takes down the whole PSP side of the store to make sure the games aren't exploitable.
 

Eusis

Member
So the solution to reinstate games that were removed due to fear of piracy is to pirate the games that were removed?
Shows why just blacklisting from the Vita should've been done, huh?

I'd just get physical copies for games like Hot Shots Tennis, would've been cheaper than DD anyway.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Sony takes down the whole PSP side of the store to make sure the games aren't exploitable.
At that point I'd seriously consider selling my Vita and just getting it when/if Falcom's stuff comes over here. Fuck that kind of garbage.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
So the solution to reinstate games that were removed due to fear of piracy is to pirate the games that were removed?
That was the arguement earlier as far as i understood it. That if a PC DD service go down, then piracy makes it possible to get a hold of the content. Or did i misunderstand something?
 
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