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DD Fraud: Sony is Embezzling 2 Games from Me (Everybody's Tennis/Motorstor:AE)
- Thread starter kadotsu
- Start date
funkystudent
Member
If the title isnt going to return to the store Sony should probably give people a free psp game if they took one away.
Still......This is the Digital Distributed future Dawg. Sony/MS/Steam and whoever all have the power to remove games from your library without warning. If your not cool with that then buy retail.
At least Sony seemed to have good reasons for removing the games but like normal they screwed up the PR.
Still......This is the Digital Distributed future Dawg. Sony/MS/Steam and whoever all have the power to remove games from your library without warning. If your not cool with that then buy retail.
At least Sony seemed to have good reasons for removing the games but like normal they screwed up the PR.
It would force them to approach this differently. Now it's affecting a few users but once more games get taken down, people will really start to ask questions. They'll have to answer questions, they'll have to deal with the negative side effects of taking away products people have paid for.
Especially since the fact that Sony can actually delete the files and make them unavailable at any time is hidden behind a wall of text. What they want you to think is pointed out in a short sentence on their website.
Source: http://uk.playstation.com/psn/suppo...6637/item73619/Introducing-PlayStation-Store/
I wonder if they meant it can be gameshared 5 times? Well, before they changed it to 2.
John Rabbit
Banned
lol okay maybe my response was pretty cold, but i was definitely reacting more to the use of EMBEZZLEMENT in the thread title than anything else. this is not like you purchased the game from retail (ostensibly owning the physical product) and then sony came to your house and stole the game back. they extended an offer to PSP buyers with digitally distributed goods which i think everyone on this forum would understand is NOT a form of ownership. due to illegal practices arising from digital "ownership" of said games, sony has removed them.
i'm just tired of this DD debate of whats owned and what isn't. i own several games in digital form only, and every time i sink my money into one, i am fully aware that i do not technically "own" anything other than a magic pass to download and play the game.
it fucking sucks i agree but then again i've never paid full retail price for a single DD game i own (aside from buying XBLA titles on day one, but to me they are priced fairly for what they deliver) so i guess you take the good with the bad.
i'm just tired of this DD debate of whats owned and what isn't. i own several games in digital form only, and every time i sink my money into one, i am fully aware that i do not technically "own" anything other than a magic pass to download and play the game.
it fucking sucks i agree but then again i've never paid full retail price for a single DD game i own (aside from buying XBLA titles on day one, but to me they are priced fairly for what they deliver) so i guess you take the good with the bad.
Palette Swap
Member
What irks me with that line of reasoning is that you essentially hold to the same standard a multinational publicly traded group and an arrogant kid looking for his 15 minutes of fame.
There's no equivalence here. One has paid customers, the other doesn't. One has people actually paid to design a customer relationship strategy for said paying customers. So yes, when Sony unilaterally pulls games out like this without saying a word about it, they choose to do so, every step of the way. And it can't compare to one obnoxious kid making fun of them on the Internet.
The irony is that people will be able to claim their games back whenever the system is hacked.
Zoe
Member
Ah but Sony also has a 'lol you cant sue us or take lega action against us' in their EULA now (I rmember that being a thing).
You can take action, but it has to be done through arbitration.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I'm not sure an entire DD service going down is directly comparable to paid for services (as I guess we call games now?) being removed without refund or notification to those affected because the service provider is worried that they might somehow lead to something else being run.
test_account
XP-39C²
True, but the comparison is that once DD goes away for whatever reason on whatever system it might be, then it's gone (at least originally from the place you bought it). It isnt exactly common that console DD stuff gets removed for no reason and then never re-appear either.
The Faceless Master
Member
That's what I think it's referring to as well but It's not really clear either way.
Get that gods damned common sense right the hell out of here!
This is NeoGaf!
"Hey, I am in a bar Gaf, there is this hot girl who seems to be into me what do I do"
"Hey, I just slammed by twig and beans in a drawer and it is bleeding pretty bad Gaf, should I call a doctor?"
"Hey Gaf this item that I bought that is completely under warranty that has a very clear and easy to find contact number located in many places has stopped working, fuck the world and fuck this company Gaf what do I do??"
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Given the maturity of the PSP 'scene' (and that's maturity of it's existence, I make no statement as to the emotional age of the people involved) and the cat and mouse game of exploits they've been running, combined with the number of PSP titles available on the PSN, I suspect it's going to get more common rather than less.
WickedLaharl
Member
Your games were sacrificed for Sony's greater good. You should be proud.
So it's the corporate side of this argument:
Just replace "theft" with "embezzlement", "Piracy" with "EULA" and "makes a copy" with "removes a licence"
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
... a charge back isn't the same as a billing issue.
a billing issue is your credit card won't work.
a billing issue is you were charged but you never received the game.
a billing issue is you were charged for two copies instead of one.
a charge back is when the customer accuses the seller of theft basically.
When this happens the seller receives fines from the major credit card institutions and possible is no longer allowed to do business with said institution.
Fredrik
Member
This. Anything else is theft.
Metalmurphy
Member
If it was the banks mistake to do a chargeback then Valve isn't to blame. And in the rare case that happens Valve WILL unban your account, provided they get the necessary documentation. Can you blame them? They sold something and then the money was taken from them. It's basically theft from where they're standing.
test_account
XP-39C²
It can happen several of times indeed, but there are no words that these games will be removed forever. I.e, Mercury Meltdown was also used for exploit, then it was removed from the PS Store. Now it is up for download/sale again (it happened quite some time ago, but the game did come back for sale). Only time will tell what happens with Motorstorm Arctic Edge and Everybody's Tennis.
CadetMahoney
Member
That would never happen in a million years.
The Faceless Master
Member
yeah, except when they 'sell' something, don't deliver it, don't give the money back for weeks, then instruct the customer to charge back, then suspends the account when the customer does what they say!
like i said, not ready for prime time. yes, even on PC.
Tylahedras
Banned
welcome to the future
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Care to give an example of Valve not delivering a product somebody paid for, then refusing to respond to support tickets?
Haunted
Member
Oh they will, but I have the feeling it won't be to the consumer's benefit.
At least we have relatively friendly consumer protection laws in Europe compared to the US... for now.
Metalmurphy
Member
Indefinitely? I don't buy it.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I didn't find the statement clear either. Buried somewhere in an official FAQ or official response on a forum there was a better explanation which verified exactly this.
I double checked this before I had to transfer my account to a second PS3. You are allowed to download something as many times as you like, it just cannot be activated on more than 5 (2) devices.
test_account
XP-39C²
Seems like it. I tried to download something more than 5 times now, and it worked fine =)
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
Look, hacking is just going to happen. I don't get mad at the hackers, since if the opportunity is there they are going to take advantage of it. If not that particular guy, someone else would have. It's better to think of them as a force of nature that cannot be controlled (because they cannot.)
The IMPORTANT thing is how the legitimate companies involved respond to the hacking, and I think Sony is (as usual) doing a piss-poor job of clearly communicating with their paying users.
I think things will be better at some point. Just hope the dark ages won't last too long.
People keep saying this.. Yet you are falling for Sony/MS/nintendos's idea of a closed platform DD future.
I don't see Steam taking away games because of some exploit.. oh wait thats because its on an open platform and people can do homebrew freely. Closed platforms controlled by retards are the problem.. not DD.
BibiMaghoo
Member
The interesting thing about this is it's worded just plain wrong.
You can donwload any item on your list an infinite number of times.
You can only use it on 5 (now 2) devices registered to the account.
So yes, in my opinion they did / do mean gameshare. Otherwise it makes no sense. The intended for it to be used on up to 5 (now 2 ) consoles. You are not limited to 5 downloads of any item.
Why is Steam an open platform? I don't understand what you mean by "people can do homebrew freely" at all when the games that go on Steam are tightly controlled by Valve.
Marty Chinn
Member
Steam could take your game away for other reasons. The simple fact is any digital distribution can take away your license for a number of reasons and you lose out. Sony isn't the only one. Just the other day I found out Amazon was removing apps from their App store which includes the download history. Just gone.
So here is my question, honest question I promise...
DO you really have this sudden urge all of the sudden to play these games?
Did you wake up and say "God damn I really need to play some Hot Shots Tennis and some Motorstorm even though yesterday and for quite a while before I sure as hell didn't or I would have had them installed already or is it just that I read a thread somewhere that said that these games were not available so I would bring my wrath to Gaf?"
Not trying to make light of your obvious suffering, I just think that Sony will be doing something about this and most likely they will be making the games downloadable again before long.
DO you really have this sudden urge all of the sudden to play these games?
Did you wake up and say "God damn I really need to play some Hot Shots Tennis and some Motorstorm even though yesterday and for quite a while before I sure as hell didn't or I would have had them installed already or is it just that I read a thread somewhere that said that these games were not available so I would bring my wrath to Gaf?"
Not trying to make light of your obvious suffering, I just think that Sony will be doing something about this and most likely they will be making the games downloadable again before long.
Steam is not an open platform. The PC is.
If there was an exploit in a particular game on Steam that I could somehow use to obtain other Steam paid-for content for free, do you think they wouldn't pull it? Sony have pulled these games because of the potential for them to lose huge amounts of money so I think any company in that situation would do the same.
The issue here is how Sony handled it. Pulling the games without warning and without offering refunds (even partial) or offering alternative games for free is just shady shit. You go to re-download and your purchase has just disappeared. That's not the way to handle this at all.
Yeah, OP. Why did you suddenly want to access content you've paid for? That's completely unreasonable!
RedNumberFive
Banned
Remember last week when Forbes put out that article criticizing game journalists? And instead of taking the criticism to heart, they whined about it? Well this would be a perfect opportunity to prove them wrong, and take Sony to task on the issue. Of course, why risk free games, gifts, and trips when they can just copy and paste another PR statement?
No one is saying that, the timing of it is suspect.
test_account
XP-39C²
No, the two games in the OP excist as retail versions as well, and they work fine on the PSP.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Who cares why? Its a game he paid for.
phosphor112
Banned
You'll likely get it back. Both are SCE games that they can patch in house and re-release.
Though EULA's... at least they don't pull the games just because you look at them funny like EA does.
Though EULA's... at least they don't pull the games just because you look at them funny like EA does.
I was going to get a Vita (amazon.de deal). I heard that you had to redownload your PSP games in "bubble" form to transfer. The first game I downloaded was ZHP the second Tactics Ogre and the third whoud've been Everybody's Tennis.
notworksafe
Member
FWIW, Everybody's Tennis is a damn fun game.
Just a question about Sony's DD offering. Can you download stuff from the PS Store on PC and burn it to DVD as a backup? I do that for Steam (and other DD retailers) games (along with the CD keys) in case they go away.
Baki
Member
You sir, deserve a refund.
Homebrew also works fine on PSP, what if this happens to a Vita game?