bonesmccoy
Banned
Gawker Media, ahem.
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Denis Dyack Addresses Kotaku Allegations [Silicon Knights]
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
Except that's not in the Kotaku article. Speaking of distorted facts...
Jonnyboy117
Member
If you're interested in more of his comments about leaving Nintendo, and the GameCube version of Too Human they were making at some point, we discussed this extensively in 2007:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/14050
Short version: it's very consistent with what he said in today's video. Also amusing: he praises Gears of War.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/14050
Short version: it's very consistent with what he said in today's video. Also amusing: he praises Gears of War.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah, sorry. I had already edited my post about this, btw.
Sounds like he should have responded immediately after the article was published. I don't think the Kotaku article ever claimed that they had anything other than 8 anonymous sources. If Activision would back him up on some of these claims about extra money and audits, I would probably believe him.
Considering the way he managed SK, I still don't think it's a good look for Precursor to have him on this project. Whether he is just on the creative side or not.
Considering the way he managed SK, I still don't think it's a good look for Precursor to have him on this project. Whether he is just on the creative side or not.
I don't think a spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness would stand a very good chance of being funded without his involvement, either, honestly. It's one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" things.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between, but denying absolutely everything when suddenly they have a fairly rich in graphical content demo for their Kickstarter that would have had to have been underway presumably during X-Men or whatever surely directly corroborates some stuff?
Not really. Dennis never said they weren't working on ED2, only that he did not improperly divert funds/employees to make it.
Lying is probably not the right word.
I've heard plenty of horror stories from people who work at some of the most well-respected developers in the industry, usually from people looking for a new job. While that horror story may have some truth to it often it's colored by the fact that this particular person is having a particularly bad experience for whatever reasons.
This Kotaku piece just reads like a bitch-fest.
You can make an ex-employer sound really bad even if they are pretty good. If they are struggling in terms of business and quality control I'm sure you can make them sound awful.
Clockwork
Member
I don't think it corroborates anything.
This isn't a Gearbox situation where they were outsourcing a full fledged game all while pushing out their own IP.
What we have is a game that didn't turn out that great (that Dyack admits they dropped the ball on in addition to spending funds above and beyond what Activision gave them) and then afterwords providing a proof of concept demo reel of a game nowhere close to completion. Not to mention, you seem to imply that developers can't work on more than one thing at a time which is a simply outrageous suggestion.
If people are prepared to pay money for this game I don't see the problem. I wouldn't myself but I'm not going to embark on a smear campaign against it either. Besides under delivering on some games I wasn't really interested in they've done nothing to hurt me.
The part about having a demo that takes place in a church definitely holds some weight.
I'm willing to believe any number of the Kotaku allegations are true or false, depending on the evidence available. But it is exceptionally lazy reasoning to say "the truth lies somewhere in-between". Half a lie is still a lie. We need to be skeptical and fair to people who are accused.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
How is it lazy? Dennis denies absolutely everything while reading about an ED2 church demo from one of the 8 is far too on the nose for absolutely all of the 8's bitching to just be "nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope". So I'm willing to invest belief in the few allegations rather than all of them and also of course that makes the denial of absolutely everything fall apart in my eyes.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
As long as he stands by this statement, I see no reason to be worried.
I made a similar comment on the thread for the original Kotaku story: As a game designer the man knows his stuff, and he'd probably be much more valuable to the industry if he were freed of the burdens of upper management.
Someone says you have syphilis. You say you don't. Does the truth lie somewhere in-between? Or is it a matter of the evidence available? That's my only point. I was seeing a lot of people state that the truth on this was somewhere in between, or words to that effect. When it comes to serious and personal accusations, I'm not sure if we should use that heuristic.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
Well published then, but it on the website and there for Gawker/Kotaku approved it.
Night_Trekker
Member
Would love a synopsis later though from someone
About the Kotaku article
- Dyack didn't come out sooner to rebut claims made against him in the Kotaku article because he didn't think people would so overwhelming believe an article with no sources. However, the amount of people who believe the allegations became clear to him when the SotE crowd-funding campaign started, so he agreed it was necessary to clear the air. He was asked by the Precursor Games CEO to do this video.
- He was asked by the Kotaku writer to comment for the article itself. Dyack made the judgement call not to contribute because he felt the article, completely lacking any sources, would only be lent an air of legitimacy if his comments appeared. Without his comments, the article had nothing but anonymous, unsourced accusations, all of which Dyack denies.
- Out of a concern over the article as it was forming, one of the anonymous people consulted forwarded email communications between him/herself and Andrew McMillen to Dyack and PG. [email posted above by Wario64] Dyack notes sources can remain anonymous for two reasons: to protect themselves or to protect their claims from scrutiny. It's possible, knowing their identities, that their claims could be entirely dismissed.
- Sean Thompson, former SK employee and tech director at PG, also denies the article's claims completely. (His quote is read in the video.) Chris Kohler, who made the decision not to publish the article at Wired, was the first person to pick up Sean's comments and tweet them, which Denis and PG appreciate.
- Andrew McMillen contacted PG several times to say his article was going to be published soon, and several times the article wasn't chosen for publication.
About claims of stolen and misused funds during the development of X-Men: Destiny
- Silicon Knights did not divert funds from X-Men: Destiny to other projects (projects he can't talk about), and SK actually put more money into the XMD project than they were paid by the publisher, $2 million of their own money. This was because they knew, after the Too Human debacle, that they needed to try and make XMD as successful as possible. This was disclosed to Activision, to which they responded: "We really appreciate that Denis, but we don't know if that's a good business move."
- The Kotaku article states that, between the 8 ex-SK employees interviewed, there was over 45 years of development experience (for SK) represented. Broken down roughly, this translated to 5-6 years at SK apiece, and, Denis states, there's no way someone who had only been working at SK for even 7 or 8 years would know anything about the budget breakdown. Through a simple process of elimination, he knows the people at SK who did have knowledge of the budget were not the people interviewed in the Kotaku article.
- While working on the project, SK used two project management programs called ProForce and another called Hansoft. Activision had complete access to all the game's development files at all times through ProForce. They could, at any time, pull down the most current build and look at it themselves. Through Hansoft, every man hour and activity of every SK employee on the project was tracked and logged for Activision to view. These resources were used to verify financial expenditures in talks with Activision.
- SK was audited several times by several entities, some friendly, some not so friendly. In order to do that, they had to painstakingly verify their man hours and expenditures. SK could not have diverted funds to other projects and survived these audits.
- Dyack denies the accusation that Activision was ever kept "out of the loop" over key staff leaving SK during XMD's development. Times were hard for SK at the time and there were layoffs, but there was no "mass exodus" from SK. He understand the individual people laid off might have interpreted the layoffs that way.
- Dyack also denies that Activision stepped in to change the credits on XMD. Dyack himself made the final call on the game's listed credits, and Activision's only request was not to change the credits further, as further altering the game in any way could introduce bugs.
- Dyack, on behalf of SK, apologizes for how XMD turned out and thinks mistakes were made. Everyone involved--SK, Activision, and Marvel--tried to work together and put their best efforts into the project, and they failed.
- Dyack admits he has said some things he shouldn't have in the press about XMD (and other projects), and he apologizes for that. He's learned his lesson, and because of those lessons learned, at Precursor he's focusing on the creative side of the project, not making any business decisions for the company. Sean and Paul are in charge of all that.
Hell, this is "games journalism." Who the fuck needs verifiable sources for anything?
What really kills me is this article being published by Kotaku. You know, the site behind various nonsensical clickbait articles that have been shitting up GAF with awful discussion threads lately.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Someone says they weren't taking X-Men Destiny seriously, describes a 2-level church interior demo taking a longer time to work on that it should in an article published last year and oh will you look at that first Kickstarter footage, my word. Its just way too easy to paint everyone that leaks as disgruntled liars, but then right there is really rather inconvenient nugget of truth.
Unlike where you either do or don't have syphillis. A dumb comparison/desperate defence.
I mean this stuff happens in the industry all the time, just you'd better make damn sure the game you were supposed to be working on comes out passable. X-Men Destiny was a total piece of shit however.
Er, Precursor says they purchased assets from SK. That's why the demo looks the way it does. And SK does not deny working on ED2.
With regard to "desperate defense": I haven't made up my mind about this, but I'm not sure that you're taking into account the available facts.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
If Dyack's standing with Nintendo is still good, I sure as hell am not giving a single dime to the Shadow sof the Eternals fundraiser. He gets to get his head out of his ass, realize that he hasn't made a good game in years without Nintendo, and approach Nintendo about collaborating on an Eternal Darkness 2 already.
No matter how good Shadows of the Eternals might turn out to be, its not going to satiate Eternal Darkness fans want for a sequel.
No matter how good Shadows of the Eternals might turn out to be, its not going to satiate Eternal Darkness fans want for a sequel.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
X-Men Destiny turned to be way bellow than "Less than well"
In order to satisfy my worries they would have to remove him from any management responsibilities altogether. He shouldn't be "chief creative officer". He should not be directing any priorities, employee time or company resources. He should be simply an idea man with someone else ultimately in charge of the creative side.
As others have said, I think the true is somewhere in the middle. Mainly because some disgruntled employees are known for exaggerating things to the press.
Not saying the story in the Kotaku article was wrong since I don't know who their sources were. Just saying some employees are known to bullshit to the press.
Not saying the story in the Kotaku article was wrong since I don't know who their sources were. Just saying some employees are known to bullshit to the press.
Of course people are going to take the Kotaku article to heart, it totally feeds into the persona he's created for himself.
He should have gotten out in front of the whole thing when the article came out. Doing so now because nobody is donating, only comes across as pathetic. Yet another in a long line of very public mistakes.
Even if he's being absolutely truthful, I think it's too late. Watching that video is just depressing.
He should have gotten out in front of the whole thing when the article came out. Doing so now because nobody is donating, only comes across as pathetic. Yet another in a long line of very public mistakes.
Even if he's being absolutely truthful, I think it's too late. Watching that video is just depressing.
I get what you're saying, but there 8 people at the company, it's nearly impossible for him not to have some involvement in the final say of the project.
FaustsBoon
Member
This whole tale is driving me bonkers, because I do know stuff, and feel compelled to not contribute.
Here is an obvious bit of truth, but truth none the less....
Our industry is TINY... and as such, people in less than secure positions cannot feel empowered to speak out. If I didn't want to get an industry reputation for causing problems, airing dirty bits, etc... i'd have a few choice stories to tell about Denis Dyack... and I never even ended up working for him.
I guess i'm just another anonymous hater, or whatnot... but i'll say this, I will never, ever trust a production DD is involved with, and warn anyone contributing that they should allow for the very, very, real possibility that their money will go "poof".
Here is an obvious bit of truth, but truth none the less....
Our industry is TINY... and as such, people in less than secure positions cannot feel empowered to speak out. If I didn't want to get an industry reputation for causing problems, airing dirty bits, etc... i'd have a few choice stories to tell about Denis Dyack... and I never even ended up working for him.
I guess i'm just another anonymous hater, or whatnot... but i'll say this, I will never, ever trust a production DD is involved with, and warn anyone contributing that they should allow for the very, very, real possibility that their money will go "poof".
Since you're here, Jason. Where do you stand on this? Is it fair to publish unverifiable anonymous sources like this? Would you / have you personally done it?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I think it goes beyond you telling people about a shady past of a company when you label someone a sociopath. What is your stake in this to use such a word?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
TheBaronOfNA said:
Doesn't matter, because ultimately if the publisher decided to release it, then the buck stops with them.
They apparently found the work to be of satisfactory quality to be released under their label and branding, and it was up to them as commissioners of the work to decide whether or not to give it more time in development or scrap it altogether.
This was only "newsworthy" because by fixating on DD they were latching onto an audience ready to lap up all the vitriol, primed as they were by his misadventures on GAF.
Typical, cynical click-baiting from Kotaku.
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
Phew I was starting to worry when I didn't see this in the first 10 posts
Agreed.
It's pretty obvious at this point that SotE was ED2 at some point, so that would point to Nintendo not being particularly interested in taking on whatever SK or Precursor was working on for themselves.
Fair enough, I read too much into it then.
Night_Trekker
Member
Here's what I don't understand about peoples' reservations about the SotE project: let's say Dyack is a thief, out to steal our money if he can. I don't believe that at all, but let's assume it's true.
- Dyack isn't making any business decisions at Precursor Games, so how is his involvement in SotE a threat?
- If Precursor Games has a scheme to take the money and run-- and not from a faceless, monolithic publisher but directly from actual gamers--what do you think is going to happen to them? They'll never work in the industry again. No company will trust any of them. Nobody will ever give them a dime for any reason.
How does this make any sense? What, they're gonna divvy up the $1.5 million 8 ways and live off of it forever?
I think a lot of people believe that Dyack is pulling the strings behind the scenes. Also they haven't done a good job of separating Silicon Knights from Precursor Games.
legacyzero
Banned
I'm at the part where Dyack is thanking journalists for not publishing the article due to lack of credibility. Yet Kotaku published it anyway. Can't say I'm surprised.
EDIT: And calling Nintendo "Oppressive". LMFAO
EDIT: And calling Nintendo "Oppressive". LMFAO
I don't think the fear is that they are going to "steal" the money. It's that Dyacks involvement increases the likelihood of a half-assed effort.
I don't believe Dyack's explanation on why hasn't responded to Kotaku all this time. He says he didn't think anybody would believe the article, when he is VERY aware how modern media works. He even says so in the next sentence. His whole trouble with GAF was about the very same situation - people who are anonymous nonchalantly poisoning his product and how much power a voice on the internet can have. There's no way he underestimated that. Maybe he was embarrassed, that I could believe. But the allegations here were much more serious than the "dude, your game sucks" he got from most of us at GAF.
scar tissue
Banned
I don't think it's responsible to publish an article that consists solely of anonymous sources venting about a person or a company. I have been approached about doing stories like this, and turned them down accordingly. "Sources: 'Denis Dyack Is A Moron'" is not an ethically sound story. But this story is much more than that. It is specific, and pointed. It recounts, in great detail, a number of events and occurrences at Silicon Knights that are quite newsworthy, and well worth sharing.
I know that Stephen spent many, many hours editing this story, getting people on the phone, and working to ensure that the final published article was both ethically sound and accurate. I know this because he sits across from me. This story took quite a lot out of him. (Sometimes I wish Kotaku's detractors could see how hard Totilo works on this sort of thing. Maybe we should make a documentary or something.)
In any industry, anonymous sourcing is an essential part of journalism, and it must be handled responsibly. You asked if I have cited unverifiable anonymous sources as part of a story. I have, quite a few times. As an example, I worked very hard to ensure that our recent Doom 4 investigation was accurate, and that it told the story in an ethically sound manner. From what I've seen, I think Andrew and Stephen did the same for Silicon Knights.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
What makes you so sure they ever even approached Nintendo about making an Eternal Darkness 2? This is Dennis Dyack we're talking about here, the guy who ditched Nintendo because of the Wii.
If Nintendo's relationship with SK was as good as I hear it was, I can't imagine they'd refuse if Precursor went to them with an ED 2 proposal. They'd be crazy not to offer to publish it, and if they did publish it I'm sure Nintendo would offer the same QA they did the first time around.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I miss FatBabies for all the crazy disgruntled employee rumors.
The early versions of UE3 were pretty bad to work with it. I know a game that lost a year of production because of their updates.
edit: maybe that was UE2