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Denis Dyack in 1up yours. NeoGAF is "hurting society," justifies having it shut down
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Trolling in the demo thread and expressing full-bore negativity in the official thread are two different things. If you can't see that, I can't help you.WrikaWrek said:
Much like the delicious fugu, it is a meal that can come back to haunt you.WrikaWrek said:
Only a dummy lies down with dogs and complains about getting up with fleas.WrikaWrek said:
I hope it turns out well also. Not just as another Canadian developer, but for the SK team in general.Revolver said:
Pureauthor
Member
Jax said:
Some guy who went by Galian Beast went apeshit about the possibility PSP losing to the DS in Japan back when the fight was still young. When cvxfreak tried to argue that stuff like Pokemon would ensure that the DS clung on to a goodly portion of marketshare (this was before Touch Generations, remember), and successfully demolished Galian Beast's arguments, Galian Beast proceeded to insult cvxfreak for debating so seriously on a VIDEO GAME MESSAGE BOARD ON THE INTERNET, ignoring that he'd been doing the exact same thing himself.
In the exact same thread, GAF mods changed his name to 'Hello, GAF. I like to be an idiot'. No, I'm not kidding.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lolMickeyKnox said:
Also, since when the fuck is GAF an NPO.
Bitches don't know 'bout Tyler Malka.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
If you could not process his ideas, why were you not asking for clarification? Do you believe it is a good idea to let a developer, who is in the process of selling his game, commandeer your official podcast like that to do PR for his product?KefkaTaran said:
bishoptl said:
This post brings up some interesting things.
NeoGaf provides tons of free advertising and exposure to games that won't be out for years! Rough numbers, but I myself am probably interested in around 20% of the games mentioned on the first page and yet day after day I am exposed to the other 80%. I'm pretty sure the end result is that I wind up buying more titles than I would otherwise. Turok falls into that catagory and serves as a good example. I don't think I would have picked it up based solely on its own merits but the discussion around it involved interesting topics like design dicussions and reasons for certain choices. In the end I wanted to see the final product to sort of round out the discussion.
Game development companies have to take the good with the bad when it comes to this and yet some of them, Like Denis, think it right to jigger with the system. Compare Bish's evenhanded behaviour to Dyacks "put up or shut up" or his comments on free speech and shutting sites like this down.
That's why he received the reception he did here.
People still ignore one thing though. If the thread that he did such a detailed write up about was just for kicks why did he respond. The response that he gave too was not only childish but was to a serious and thought out post. So even if it was an experiment he derailed it to get the desired outcome even though it was being steered in a good direction. Why would you do that unless you just like what you're trying to ''prevent'' or it was never an experiment at all.
mjc said:
I was optimistic about Too Human from the beginning. Believe me. After countless videos and impressions, it doesn't look good to me AT ALL. I don't see how this is the final product after they've been working on it for so long.
And then the thread came, which pissed me and a lot of other people off.
And NOW this, which is completely ridiculous.
I think I'm in a position to make some posts against Dyack and his shitty game.
bishoptl said:
That's exactly what it does. From what I saw, people found his initial "For or against" thread a brave/arrogant move, it did generate some interest I thought. But essentially he just turned around and told the GAF community that he didn't need it (a bit of an exaggeration).
I found his whole fascade to be arrogant myself, but hey, at least he has faith in his game.
Kitschkraft
Member
I think everyone is just blowing this entire "saga" out of proportion, from Dyack to gaf to anyone that cares.
I think that this forum means very little in regards to DD, his game, and the industry in general. Our small concerns about shit don't affect a multi-billion dollar business.
If TH comes out and bombs it won't be because of gaf or even reviewers, it will be because of poor marketing, and/or the game just plain old being unwanted by the general populace.
I don't see why he's getting so worked up about shit, just make your game, shut your mouth, and keep shit moving. Too human looks like a marketable game, and if Microsoft gives him a big enough of a push, he might be able to do some okay business.
I think that this forum means very little in regards to DD, his game, and the industry in general. Our small concerns about shit don't affect a multi-billion dollar business.
If TH comes out and bombs it won't be because of gaf or even reviewers, it will be because of poor marketing, and/or the game just plain old being unwanted by the general populace.
I don't see why he's getting so worked up about shit, just make your game, shut your mouth, and keep shit moving. Too human looks like a marketable game, and if Microsoft gives him a big enough of a push, he might be able to do some okay business.
bishoptl said:
You got me confused. Because if he was trolling in the demo thread, then how is it any different from people who troll videos and previews of too human?
I'm sorry i'm really failing to realize just how the hell was what Admiral Viscen did any worse than what a pack of posters have been doing to Too Human since like what, ever since the game was shown? Some posters are even open about it, saying how they are trolling Too Human just for the kicks of it, just to get revenge because some other game was trolled.
And you banned Admiral Viscen because he made a clever PS3-Ps2 graphics joke about Turok, and you said you wouldn't admit that lack of respect towards your team members that worked hard on it.
What i'm saying is, these posters do affect you guys that work in the dev industry. Heck, Amy Henning, in some Podcast i don't remember made a shoutout to Kittonwy because basically he damaged controls everything Ammy Henning related on the forum.
So clearly we know our words don't always fall in empty air, we know that sometimes we land something, and it's because we know that, that certain posters go out of their way to just "spit" on devs faces and their work.
So the whole "It's just a message board" thing, is in reality complete bs rationalization.
I don't even know where i'm going with this anymore, this shit ain't fun.
Doc Evils said:
These kind of posts add nothing. Doc Evils is another dude that has been running a marathon of insult against Dyack and Too Human, i don't think i've ever seen one piece of constructive criticism from him in relation to Too Human, yet he's always there, laughing at it and ridiculing it. Why? Because he's an attention whore, he wants Dyack to read his posts and get pissed.
bishoptl said:
Honestly I haven't followed the Turok/GAF case closely, but from what I've seen I haven't got the impression that people were going after you. Obviously there wasn't only fair criticism, but I think Too Human is in another league when it comes to personal bashing.
Hell no ! Please get me right, I'm not saying Dyack was right to come here and do what he's done, it's quite the opposite actually. The only thing I'm saying, really, and as a gamer who has spent some time on Too Human, is that I think GAF members are wrong in treating the game like a piece of shit just because they don't like Denis. Again, I'm not here to take sides between the forum and Denis, I just happen to have played Too Human and find infortunate that people are saying things like "thos who read and post on message boards have had more than enough of [Denis'] excuses and egotistical rants" when talking about the game. It appears to me as a cheap excuse to create scandal, from people who never cared about the game in the first place. And this is the only thing I'm pointing out.
MaddenNFL64
Member
Why are people taking offense to what Dyack said? Are you GAF? Do you think of yourself as part of some collective consciousness? I see valid arguments on both sides to be had on what technology has done to social interaction in the world, and IF it's bad for society as a whole or not.
But I didn't hear one thing there that offended me at all.
Then again, I don't get the whole SK/Dyack hate anyway.
But I didn't hear one thing there that offended me at all.
Then again, I don't get the whole SK/Dyack hate anyway.
Red Blaster
Member
Denis Dyack said:
:nods:Dyno said:
NeoGAF is responsible for more of my discretionary spending than any other influence. I've purchased dozens of games because of the hype here. That might be a negative thing for me financially but I can't see how the GAF hype machine is a sum negative for the entire industry.
I'm somewhat new to the community, and this may be different for other GAF users, but for me personally I can't recall a time when reading GAF has turned me off a game I was once excited for. On the opposite side of the coin GAF has got me extremely excited for other games that I otherwise hadn't paid attention to. Games like Age of Conan, MGS4 (yes I know I can't believe I wasn't excited either) and many others have been added to my collection because of this forum.
Though it may not be perfect, an intelligent reader can easily decipher the quality posts from those clearly not intended to add to the discussion. I certainly don't agree that forumsl ike GAF are destroying society as they provide a great place to discuss games with other fanatics, which is great for me because I don't have many friends that are into games. He makes an interesting point about the anonymity of internet posting, and playing games on live and how that can create a serious amount of rediculous posts and really hurts our ears on Xbox Live, however the internet also provides a fantastic resource for people like myself who don't have many people to discuss this sort of thing with. The key for people like myself lies in our ability to weed out the quality people and posters rather than those who spend most of their time creating .gifs of a member of the media's most recent blunder.
Though it may not be perfect, an intelligent reader can easily decipher the quality posts from those clearly not intended to add to the discussion. I certainly don't agree that forumsl ike GAF are destroying society as they provide a great place to discuss games with other fanatics, which is great for me because I don't have many friends that are into games. He makes an interesting point about the anonymity of internet posting, and playing games on live and how that can create a serious amount of rediculous posts and really hurts our ears on Xbox Live, however the internet also provides a fantastic resource for people like myself who don't have many people to discuss this sort of thing with. The key for people like myself lies in our ability to weed out the quality people and posters rather than those who spend most of their time creating .gifs of a member of the media's most recent blunder.
Denis was talking about some pretty high level stuff there too bad he didn't articulate it properly which makes his points/ commentary pretty meaningless. Only the people who can decrypt what he was saying will actually see the whole picture of that discussion. For me Deniss speech shot off in way to many directions, Denis would make a comment about a particular thing but had trouble directing it to its intended place. A couple of times it sounded like he was talking just about gaf when he was actually talking about something else.
Also he had brought up some interesting ideas and thoughts but instead of going deeper into them and drawing them out further he just jumped straight to something else, total clusterfuck
Also he had brought up some interesting ideas and thoughts but instead of going deeper into them and drawing them out further he just jumped straight to something else, total clusterfuck
Two things:
1.) If you're posting in this thread you are partaking in the second part of Dyack's experiment.
2.) This comes across as a pre-emptive plee to gamers/media to not take gaf's Too Human criticisms seriously... In other words, while I'm sure some of the backlash the game will probably receive from gaf isn't warranted, it sounds like he's trying to discredit gaf's (collective) opinion specifically in regards to Too Human because he believes we have a personal grudge against him.
In all fairness, that may not be his intention, but that's how it's coming across to me... Particularly after Wired's 'people-wll-love-and-hate-this-game' comments a couple of days ago. If it's true, I'd imagine that gaffers who don't like the game will be the most vocal.
1.) If you're posting in this thread you are partaking in the second part of Dyack's experiment.
2.) This comes across as a pre-emptive plee to gamers/media to not take gaf's Too Human criticisms seriously... In other words, while I'm sure some of the backlash the game will probably receive from gaf isn't warranted, it sounds like he's trying to discredit gaf's (collective) opinion specifically in regards to Too Human because he believes we have a personal grudge against him.
In all fairness, that may not be his intention, but that's how it's coming across to me... Particularly after Wired's 'people-wll-love-and-hate-this-game' comments a couple of days ago. If it's true, I'd imagine that gaffers who don't like the game will be the most vocal.
Who is creating scandal? Excuse me but who started the "make a decision on limited information NOW NOW NOW" thread on these boards? Who ranted on a popular podcast about it?snoopers said:
NeoGAF is certainly not innocent of creating drama in the past but can you seriously and with a straight face blame the forum members (not named Dyack) this time?
I think he makes a lot of good points in the podcast. I also think he should have only talked about that stuff on a podcast, and not thrown himself to the wolves here by making that post. And the news story about it takes some stuff out of context, and makes him sound whinier than he is.
It is interesting to think about what the anonymity of the internet does to us, how we can be so quick to make such vile remarks to some people, and how everyone lines up to laugh at the latest .gif or youtube video of somebody getting hurt or embarrassed in some way. I participate the same as everyone else, but it's hard to really justify if you take a few steps back and look at it. The quick argument is "grow a backbone", but is that really an argument? Is the solution to having a group of people who make snap judgments and personal attacks at what, to them, is no more than a screen name just to either learn how to take it or ignore it?
Again, that's painting with a broad brush, and the message is tainted by the messenger (I agree that he is the source for a majority of Too Human's bad PR), but I think a good amount of what he talked about is at least an interesting topic for discussion, and shouldn't be shoved into the "Too Human sucks because Denis cries a lot" file.
It is interesting to think about what the anonymity of the internet does to us, how we can be so quick to make such vile remarks to some people, and how everyone lines up to laugh at the latest .gif or youtube video of somebody getting hurt or embarrassed in some way. I participate the same as everyone else, but it's hard to really justify if you take a few steps back and look at it. The quick argument is "grow a backbone", but is that really an argument? Is the solution to having a group of people who make snap judgments and personal attacks at what, to them, is no more than a screen name just to either learn how to take it or ignore it?
Again, that's painting with a broad brush, and the message is tainted by the messenger (I agree that he is the source for a majority of Too Human's bad PR), but I think a good amount of what he talked about is at least an interesting topic for discussion, and shouldn't be shoved into the "Too Human sucks because Denis cries a lot" file.
Since Bish is in here, and possibly other Mods as well, I'll ask again. How is the official thread for this game going to be treated? I'm still buying this game, I'm hoping to enjoy it, and I'm hoping to have actual discussion about the game itself here on GAF, as always.
Is there too much bad blood at this point to expect that? Is a separation of Church and State even possible now?
Is there too much bad blood at this point to expect that? Is a separation of Church and State even possible now?
snoopers said:
Agreed, but isn't that the way things often go? People aren't always fair, especially not GAF. There's the same initial situation for every game, especially those with triple A status and a long development history. Even professional gaming websites often aren't fair when they review games by rating them way too low or too high just to distinguish themselves. This might rather have an impact on sales than GAF mood swings. Dyack shouldn't worry so much about some core gamers pre-release bashing his game on a forum. This whole thing is still ridiculous, and his involvement ('For' or 'Against') unnecessarily added fuel to it.
Doc Evils said:
Really? I've been hopeful, i've been critical, and now i'm trying to generate discussion.
What did you do? You are a one note character in Too Human/Denis Dyack related threads. It's incredible. It's clear you are on a mission, and you deliberately enter in these threads to mock.
GitarooMan
Member
Basically, you're just going to have to wait 2-3 weeks after the game comes out for the hype/backlash to die down and then people who barely cared about it will move on and discussion about will take place.Tobor said:
Denis Dyack's reputation on GAF is about the same as Jack Thompson's for the same reason. They both make logically inconsistent statements when they think they're being profound, are hypersensitive and egotistical.
If Denis kept a low profile than the absolute worst that could have happened to Too Human on GAF was be another Brute Force. That's it.
His DIGITAL LINE bullshit and podcast ramblings are *senseless*. He has no idea how to interact with a community that doesn't fall over itself praising him.
If Denis kept a low profile than the absolute worst that could have happened to Too Human on GAF was be another Brute Force. That's it.
His DIGITAL LINE bullshit and podcast ramblings are *senseless*. He has no idea how to interact with a community that doesn't fall over itself praising him.
Garnett, "Get the hell over it."
Well said. This issue should be over.
Denis keeps on fueling this on and this all falls on his own shoulders. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to run some social testing experiment. Too bad he is bringing down the name of all the other hard workers at his company who worked on Too Human in this process.
Well said. This issue should be over.
Denis keeps on fueling this on and this all falls on his own shoulders. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to run some social testing experiment. Too bad he is bringing down the name of all the other hard workers at his company who worked on Too Human in this process.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
Enough said
WrikaWrek said:
Oh please, I've always been straight forward on how I've been. Dyack is not new to this type of treatment, other games have got this in the past. Your defense for Too Human/Dyack is laughable since we have seen what the game has become near release. But keep it up, Dyack will need it.
Memphis Reigns
Member
so wait, gaf can express their thoughts and feelings with no limitations, but dyack cant? im confused.
note: i take no sides, just wondering what he technically did wrong here...
note: i take no sides, just wondering what he technically did wrong here...
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
So he's basically setting up for all the bad reviews that are going to come out, he can still say his game is good because reviews mean nothing?
He's talking about how like, internet message boards and how they affect society.
I don't think anyone is changing society or anything, I'm sitting in my underwear eating cheetos and I might play some TF2 later.
He's talking about how like, internet message boards and how they affect society.
I don't think anyone is changing society or anything, I'm sitting in my underwear eating cheetos and I might play some TF2 later.
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