Support NeoGAF

[Maintenance]

Denuvo is a no buy, end of story. Now that Inside and Doom removed it I might think about buying them sometime.

I would have also skipped a few other games that I did not know that had Denuvo, but discovered after buying it. That's my fault for not researching though.

 

[Sora the Cat]

This won't affect Capcom, if anything it will benefit them. See: Witcher 3.

They are not losing a sale, they are gaining a Player. Cause most of these guys were never going to buy the game in the first place.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I don't think it affects sales, if people want to priate something, it's unlikely that they would buy it instead if it's not available due to DRM

i think this explanation becomes less agreeable when it goes on sale.

 

[prudislav]

This is why we end up with always online DRM in games like Steep, Need for Speed, For Honor, and so on. That`s pretty much impossible to crack, and the publishers are very well aware of that. I rather have Denuvo than that crap.

nah thats more because of microtransactions for Mp and "game as a servise" bull***t rather than for antipiracy purposes

 

[JP]

I don't play games on PC so I don't really follow this stuff but when I do skim threads people often seem to be against Denuvo. So as somebody who really doesn't follow this stuff, what are the negatives to Dunuvo for people who buy PC games?

 

[IronicSonic]

This won't affect Capcom, if anything it will benefit them. See: Witcher 3.

They are not losing a sale, they are gaining a Player. Cause most of these guys were never going to buy the game in the first place.

If that player dont become a buyer, it's not business for Capcom or any pub

 

[Coriolanus]

This is why we end up with always online DRM in games like Steep, Need for Speed, For Honor, and so on. That`s pretty much impossible to crack, and the publishers are very well aware of that. I rather have Denuvo than that crap.

Need for Speed and For Honor are always online with denuvo. It's not an either/or deal. Publishers will simply use both if they feel they can get away with it.

 

[prudislav]

Need for Speed and For Honor are always online with denuvo. It's not an either/or deal. Publishers will simply use both if they feel they can get away with it.

thats porbablyy just because of some contract that they had to put the DRm on everything they produce ;-) Logically denuvo DRM on onlin-only title seems nonsence , unless the online-only requirement is kinda technically fake...

Pirating in this day and age sounds like a pain in the ass. We have weekly updates, patches, DLC and in-game online features.

I see this as overall problem and pretty much the reason i rarely buy anything on launch these days as its often buggy with cut content, and with my huge backlog on steam i dont have problem to wait couple months/years

 

[Taiser]

I thought pirating was something people did 15-20 years ago. Pirating in this day and age sounds like a pain in the ass. We have weekly updates, patches, DLC and in-game online features. The good thing about Steam is that I can keep my 1000+ games in one library, and each game will update automaticly when it`s necessary.

yes, because that level of convenience somehow trumps over saving hundreds of dollars per month while getting everything (main game,dlcs,latest updates/patches) for free.

rolleyes.gif

 

[Vipu]

I don't play games on PC so I don't really follow this stuff but when I do skim threads people often seem to be against Denuvo. So as somebody who really doesn't follow this stuff, what are the negatives to Dunuvo for people who buy PC games?

None, other than pirates cant pirate the game and it costs more for devs since they have to buy it.

If there is some proof then im happy to read what real bad sides Denuvo have.
Doom should be best thing to test with now since it had denuvo and now it doesnt.

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

I don't play games on PC so I don't really follow this stuff but when I do skim threads people often seem to be against Denuvo. So as somebody who really doesn't follow this stuff, what are the negatives to Dunuvo for people who buy PC games?

It needs to call home to Denuvos activation servers every time you start the game.
Thus making it unclear what will happen with the games once their service stops in the future.

It also makes gamemods and fixes impossible.
Something like DSfix for Dark Souls is not possible with Denuvo.

 

[Trup1aya]

I don't think it affects sales, if people want to priate something, it's unlikely that they would buy it instead if it's not available due to DRM

It's impossible to know how often this is true/false

If a game, out for a week, gets illegally downloaded 5,000 times. Publishers would say they lost 5k sales. That's not true, cause you can imagine that some of these people NEVER would have bought the game. But you can't say that for all 5k.

The answer is likely somewhere in the middle... and we'll never know what that answer is for a given title.

 

[Vipu]

It needs to call home to Denuvos activation servers every time you start the game.
Thus making it unclear what will happen with the games once their service stops in the future.

It also makes gamemods and fixes impossible.
Something like DSfix for Dark Souls is not possible with Denuvo.

There was something that makes sure that wont happen, again I dont remember what it was but there is no real bad sides for game to have Denuvo.
It might have been something like devs can press button and denuvo is gone or something.

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

There was something that makes sure that wont happen, again I dont remember what it was but there is no real bad sides for game to have Denuvo.
It might have been something like devs can press button and denuvo is gone or something.

Sure, they can always remove it down the line like with Inside and Doom, but whats the guaranty that every publisher will care?

 

[Coriolanus]

yes, because that level of convenience somehow trumps over saving hundreds of dollars per month while getting everything (main game,dlcs,latest updates/patches) for free.

rolleyes.gif

Worked for steam. And for itunes. And for netflix. So on and so forth.

 

[texhnolyze]

It needs to call home to Denuvos activation servers every time you start the game.

This is false. Yes, it needs activation ever once in a while, but not every time.

 

[Vipu]

Sure, they can always remove it down the line like with Inside and Doom, but whats the guaranty that every publisher will care?

I dont know how did it go if Denuvo and publisher goes down but there was something.

 

[spineduke]

There was something that makes sure that wont happen, again I dont remember what it was but there is no real bad sides for game to have Denuvo.
It might have been something like devs can press button and denuvo is gone or something.

Oh a magic button! Exciting!

It doesn't matter how easy it is to do if the publisher never removes it. Denuvo is a ticking time bomb for all those purchaes, let's have this conversation in a few years where the company is defunct.

 

[prudislav]

Denuvo is a ticking time bomb for all those purchaes, let's have this conversation in a few years where the company is defunct.

nah company will just rename and create new DRM like the last time

And it will be magically fixed like all these securom titles that doesnt run on Win10 :-D (aka by disabling some OS security policies)

 

[Sora the Cat]

If that player dont become a buyer, it's not business for Capcom or any pub

Sorry but it doesn't work like that, it helps Capcom. More people playing your game is always a good thing, you are not losing money, you are gaining someone who will most likely talk to his friends about how good the game is, maybe share it too on some social Network, then you got more people talking about your game and that boost sales in the long run.

So basically, if the game is good, piracy can actually make them earn more money. There are tons of examples of this.

 

[Vipu]

piracy can actually make them earn more money. There are tons of examples of this.

Link some?

 

[Sayad]

I don`t think this will impact their sales in a huge way.

Disappointment will come from the amount of money they paid for this pos.

 

[Pagusas]

I recall a dev revealing their contract with Denuvo and there being a guarantee if the game is cracked in X amount of days, all money is refunded to the dev for the cost of the DRM. Wonder if they will be writing them a check.

 

[Kuosi]

I recall a dev revealing their contract with Denuvo and there being a guarantee if the game is cracked in X amount of days, all money is refunded to the dev for the cost of the DRM. Wonder if they will be writing them a check.

that dev was a reddit troll, source

 

[Sayad]

Worked for steam. And for itunes. And for netflix. So on and so forth.

Huh! But there are still people pirating games, music, TV shows/movies! Not sure how those are counter arguments to "piracy still exist because it's free"?!

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

This is false. Yes, it needs activation ever once in a while, but not every time.

If it can (has internet), it calls home every time.
Yes, it doesn´t need to, but there is no reliable way to determine how often it needs to.

 

[Pureauthor]

Huh! But there are still people pirating games, music, TV shows/movies! Not sure how those are counter arguments to "piracy still exist because it's free"?!

The point is that you don't care about reducing piracy, you care about getting more people to buy your stuff, which you do by making the legal way a more convenient and comfortable way to do it.

DRM, especially shitty-ass DRM like Securom and always-online malarkey, is the exact opposite.

 

[Gamezone]

How is it that Resident Evil gets cracked lightning quick, but games like Just Cause 3 are still on the fence?

 

[Jawmuncher]

How is it that Resident Evil gets cracked lightning quick, but games like Just Cause 3 are still on the fence?

No one cares enough to go back and work on it more or less

 

[Sora the Cat]

Link some?

Please don't edit my response if you are going to quote it, cutting a sentence is not a nice thing to do.

Some examples: PSX, Wii, Outlast, Counter Strike, Dark Souls, Photoshop, Windows OS.

If you want more info on how and why Piracy sometimes helps companies you can do a quick google search, as the explanation I gave in other post clearly isn't enough.

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

How is it that Resident Evil gets cracked lightning quick, but games like Just Cause 3 are still on the fence?

Because Just Cause 3 is crap.

 

[Lashley]

yes, because that level of convenience somehow trumps over saving hundreds of dollars per month while getting everything (main game,dlcs,latest updates/patches) for free.

rolleyes.gif

Actually, that's the reason I stopped pirating from when I was a kid.

That, and I had a source of income.

 

[alarre1]

Any type of online only DRM is almost a no-buy for me. If you ask why, try playing a single player game if your internet goes out; you're SOL at that point.

I remember when I moved into my house, I didn't have internet for a week, so I couldn't even play FIFA at the time.

 

[horkrux]

If it can (has internet), it calls home every time.
Yes, it doesn´t need to, but there is no reliable way to determine how often it needs to.

lol of course there is: Play the game for weeks in offline mode and find out.
It needs to call home every time the game was updated and launched for the first time since then. Beyond that, nothing but anecdotal evidence

 

[Falchion]

They should offer jobs to the groups that hacked it, come patch this for us.

 

[IronicSonic]

Sorry but it doesn't work like that, it helps Capcom. More people playing your game is always a good thing, you are not losing money, you are gaining someone who will most likely talk to his friends about how good the game is, maybe share it too on some social Network, then you got more people talking about your game and that boost sales in the long run.

So basically, if the game is good, piracy can actually make them earn more money. There are tons of examples of this.

I dont midn piracy and I get the logic behind this but I hardly believe it works that way. Piracy makes the games as dispensable as it gets. If you talk to a friend about that incredible game you just played in your pirate wii, you cant expect your friend gonna get a retail wii with a brand new (or even a second hand) copy of that game. Same case with emulators.

Please don't edit my response if you are going to quote it, cutting a sentence is not a nice thing to do.

Some examples: PSX, Wii, Outlast, Counter Strike, Dark Souls, Photoshop, Windows OS.

If you want more info on how and why Piracy sometimes helps companies you can do a quick google search, as the explanation I gave in other post clearly isn't enough.

Sony's and Nintendo's business model includes selling consoles. Photoshop and Windows are basically a monopoly. Valve business model is about Steam, not Counter Strike. I dont know the case of Outlast. Dark Souls word of mouth could be from legit users. My guessing is as good as yours.

 

[Mozendo]

Sony's and Nintendo's business model includes selling consoles. Photoshop and Windows are basically a monopoly. Valve business model is about Steam, not Counter Strike. I dont know the case of Outlast. Dark Souls word of mouth could be from legit users. My guessing is as good as yours.

Outlast was bundled with Nvidia cards back when people were going nuts over the 970 iirc.
Nevermind I was wrong thinking of daylight

 

[Trup1aya]

The point is that you don't care about reducing piracy, you care about getting more people to buy your stuff, which you do by making the legal way a more convenient and comfortable way to do it.

DRM, especially shitty-ass DRM like Securom and always-online malarkey, is the exact opposite.

No, you just explore a different business model because you can't compete with piracy when it comes to direct sales.

The LEGAL way of accessing music and movies is just as easy as piracy, and piracy still negatively impacts those industries. I know people who completely cut out TV, buying movies and all their subscription services except for internet thanks toKODI.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

"Our solution made a difference for this title"
Haha good one!

 

[Moon Presence]

People just love to play games for free. And then write extensive opinions and thesis on why it's bad/generic and uninspired.

 

[holygeesus]

There is a decent 'essay/study' of the topic here, which basically expands on the scale of piracy and how the percentage of pirate:genuine copy, of some games has been over 90% in certain cases.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html

How people can say that games being downloaded 100,000's of times, illegally, has no impact on lost sales, is beyond me though.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

didn't know denuvo was Austrian.

 

[Corpekata]

I love all the basic "PC gamers are pirates" posts in this thread claiming being against it is because people want free games ignoring that most of the active PC users on this forum at least probably buy way too many games in the first place.

 

[prudislav]

ignoring that most of the active PC users on this forum at least probably buy way too many games in the first place.

and i bet most of them (or at least ones from post-communist countries) has some history with pirating from the times they were teens or under the regime

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

I was just having a convo with some co-workers today and they all complained about me buying the game (Despite getting it a discounted price) for a 10ish hour long game. Once they heard the news of this game being cracked. They were about positive about the game and how the plan to pirate it now. I was low-key upset with how ignorant they were being. These are grown men that work fulltime for an IT company. But, I guess people have their money priorities on different things.. Maybe I'm just a fanboy for the RE series. I don't know, but I will admit that kind of attitude bothered me a bit.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

There is a decent 'essay/study' of the topic here, which basically expands on the scale of piracy and how the percentage of pirate:genuine copy, of some games has been over 90% in certain cases.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html

How people can say that games being downloaded 100,000's of times, illegally, has no impact on lost sales, is beyond me though.

Impact, maybe some minimal impact, because most pirates won't buy a game just because is not avaliable for download. Pirates don't buy games. They'll just play any of the dozen F2P games, mods or any other pirated games.

 

[FrozenCell]

The point is that you don't care about reducing piracy, you care about getting more people to buy your stuff, which you do by making the legal way a more convenient and comfortable way to do it.

exactly, just like Gaben said: piracy is a service problem not a pricing problem

today I got my 79,98 € ready for Steam RE7 Deluxe Edition, yet I can't buy it for SteamOS

however thanks to this crack, emulating a Denuvoless version will soon become possible with Wine

 

[Bowl0l]

exactly, just like Gaben said: piracy is a service problem not a pricing problem

today I got my 79,98 € ready for Steam RE7 Deluxe Edition, yet I can't buy it for SteamOS

however thanks to this crack, emulating a Denuvoless version will soon become possible with Wine

Don't worry. Valve will convert all developers to SteamOS if Microsoft does something crazy with Windows 10 or next gen console doesn't offer b/c (PS5 or XBox 4) with current gen (XBoxOne or PS4).

 

[spwolf]

Impact, maybe some minimal impact, because most pirates won't buy a game just because is not avaliable for download. Pirates don't buy games. They'll just play any of the dozen F2P games, mods or any other pirated games.

well, since i live in eastern europe where you are looked at as stupid if you buy a movie or a game, i have quite different perspective on this. Sure, pirates would not buy 50 games per month, even if they download them all now... but sure, they would buy few games that interest them if they could not play them.

Literally every single friend i had used to have chipped ps2 with tons of games... now they own ps4's and pay for the games... not 50 games per year, but they buy a big 2-3 hits per year and catch sales on PSN for few others.

I just bought overwatch for my friend (his kid actually) since he doesnt have cc he can use on our PSN. He went from "no way i would ever pay for a game" to spending around $200+ per year on games for PS4.

Now, that does not mean that everyone will spend a lot of money, but they would still buy few games per year (while they are now downloading 100s).

 

[spineduke]

well, since i live in eastern europe where you are looked at as stupid if you buy a movie or a game, i have quite different perspective on this. Sure, pirates would not buy 50 games per month, even if they download them all now... but sure, they would buy few games that interest them if they could not play them.

Literally every single friend i had used to have chipped ps2 with tons of games... now they own ps4's and pay for the games... not 50 games per year, but they buy a big 2-3 hits per year and catch sales on PSN for few others.

I just bought overwatch for my friend (his kid actually) since he doesnt have cc he can use on our PSN. He went from "no way i would ever pay for a game" to spending around $200+ per year on games for PS4.

Now, that does not mean that everyone will spend a lot of money, but they would still buy few games per year (while they are now downloading 100s).

Well, like you said, they are older and have more disposable income - plus the market pricing is a lot more flexible compared to the PS2 days.