Yeah, handcannons were still dominating when I bowed out. I had Thorn and The Last Word, but fuck I've always been terrible with guns like handcannons, even in other games. I only stayed ahead via situational advantage, going head to head often lead to me and my pulse / scout rifles getting destroyed. It was rough.
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Destiny 2: "Last Call" Teaser, full trailer March 30 10AM PT / 6PM BST
- Thread starter AaronMT86
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This is accurate. The lack of competition on console at the time and the non-terrible meta made PvP worth playing then. Now, absolutely pass.
Herp Derpington
Member
Nah the changes affected PvE when they didn't need to but I think Bungie wanted to make sure the guns played the same regardless of what mode you play. My point was that PvP is a very important part of the game. I'll disagree with your labeling of the PvP portion as "mediocre". The gun play is very smooth and while the map design presented issues to say it's a mediocre mode is a really big disservice to just how deep and fun it can be. different strokes for different folks though I guess.
molnizzle
Member
Maybe not during the first month or so after an expansion, but now (before the AoT started, at least)? 3 after an expansion? 6 months? The majority of players that are still logging in each day are playing for the PvP. That's just the nature of multiplayer. It doesn't end. It makes perfect sense for Bungie to cater to the players that stick with the game for thousands of hours like that. Which is why they've been doing it.
I agree that there is likely a better way and hopefully they figure out how to make PvE more engaging without killing what many find compelling about the PvP in the first game.
Gonna need receipts, man. These are just unsubstantiated claims. And it definitely doesn't match what my friends list shows people are doing. Maybe your friends have been curated in a way that shows more PvP players. Same could be more me, but it isn't a complete picture either way.
molnizzle
Member
I'm sure your friends list shows a lot of Trials happening each weekend. What goes on during the week leading up to it is just prep. ;-)
I'm by no means a big PvP player either, I usually don't stick around after the first few months. Actually just re-installed to work on the AoT book. A lot of my friends list never stopped, though, and I doubt it was because they were having a blast killing Aksys for the 300th time.
So if you haven't been sticking around yourself, where is this claim that most people just play PvP get backed up?
molnizzle
Member
I never said people "just play" PvP. I said PvP is what the game is balanced around, it's Bungie's focus. And that's true. That's what PvE players are complaining about —PvE becomes nerfed down and less interesting because the guns and abilities are balanced around PvP play.
My claim that PvP is what keeps people playing for months after an expansions releases it based on both logic and my own experience. There's only so much PvE content, and eventually you'll get through all of it many, many times. Eventually it'll good old and you'll drop out (like I tend to do).
...and yes, also Twitch. There aren't tens of thousands of viewers watching Aksys kills each weekend. They're watching Trials. The shit that keeps the game going during the "down" season.
I think you get what I was saying. We've been going back and forth on this. I'm asking you to substantiate the claim that the majority of players mainly play PvP. Saying that is true because Bungie balances around PvP is a cyclic proof. It's saying : "Bungie balances around PvP because more people play PvP, which we can tell because Bungie balances around PvP."
molnizzle
Member
It's just simple logic, really. PvE content can be exhausted. Eventually it will be. People won't keep playing that same content repeatedly for no reason. There are content droughts and players get bored. Meanwhile PvP players keep trucking on weekend after weekend. It's been like this in every MMO-style game I've ever played.
So it is an unsubstantiated claim. I view PvP as something that I would get burned out much faster than PvE, even in Destiny. But I'm not going to project my views on the community as if they share my views.
I was hoping the Prison of Elders back with HoW would solve this to some degree, but man, but it left a lot to be desired. It has so much potential though, Bungie just needs to retool it.
I think the reason PVE players don't stick around is because there isn't much content to make them want to stick around. Rise of Iron, besides the raids, was pretty barebones: 5 missions, most of which were short and lackluster, and a couple new strikes.
Part of the problem might also be that the play areas don't have much to explore. A more open world format might help with that.
Focusing more on PVE will make people want to stick around for PVE
That said, there will still be content draughts no matter what, but they could minimize this. I actually think it would be interesting if they did something where they released X amount of story missions all at once, but then released one mission per week after that, similar to how a TV show releases episodes. Might help generate hype and get people excited about the story, etc.
molnizzle
Member
...eh, I don't have the energy to try and "substantiate my claims." I'm just telling you how the game has worked for the past few years. Destiny continues to be as popular as it is because of the PvP. That's not really up for debate. There's not nearly enough PvE content for people to be content with only that.
I'm sure there are outliers out there who are doing their 400th Aksis kill as we speak with no plans to run Trials this weekend. They're just not the majority. The data from sites like Destinytracker is skewed because the vast majority of PvP players are also PvE players. They do everything, but PvP is the driving force the keeps them coming back. They're running their 400th Aksis kill right now too—but are excited to try and get to the Lighthouse this weekend. This has been my experience during 1500+ hours of Destiny, at least.
wesleyshark
Banned
Next week's raid is going to be sublime :3
molnizzle
Member
VoG?
Tarnpanzer
Member
Which guns are king right now in PvE and in PvP?
I'm honestly a bit confused that if you feel that way about the game, how you played 1,000 hours of it?
That's not a jab at you but if I felt that the entire gameplay system was too boring, I certainly wouldn't have played it that much.
Not them, but for me, Destiny does have a lot going for it. It's just far from what it could be. It keeps me playing it, but I still have lots and lots of gripes as well.
Oh, I have gripes with it too. Every single non-Raid activity not having matchmaking was unacceptable and I think they often overreact with their nerfs.
But if I find the actual backbone to the gameplay boring, I would have dropped it ages ago.
Jest Chillin
Member
It isn't rock solid evidence but a good indicator of a game's popularity is Twitch viewers and Destiny jumps up pretty high during Trials weekends when it otherwise normally sits outside the top 10. Currently, even with the patch it's sitting at 14 most watched. But that's the middle of the day on a weekday with a ton of PvE content people are grinding. Once Trials goes live, it will sit in the top 10 over the course of the weekend and nearly every stream will be PvP.
wesleyshark
Banned
Yepp
molnizzle
Member
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 400 ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ light ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ fatebringer ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Best raid in whole game making comeback, good treat for long time veterans.
Yeah, I guess I've had periods where I've stopped playing for a while. The gameplay is really solid, but for me, it all gets repetitive after a while. I also don't play PVP much, so that probably adds to it. I think it'd be great to see weapon perks that really shake things up
I find the core gameplay to be what makes Destiny engaging and fun to play. Systems like the stats and perks have a long way to go before I'd feel satisfied with them.
Also most of my playtime was during year 1 when Bungie were less afraid of having strong PVE weapons. Sadly the itemisation in year 2 left a lot to be desired as new weapons came with underwhelming perks for the sake of diversity and balance. I had a lot more fun with weapons like Fatebringer, Vision of Confluence, Gjallarhorn etc than the endgame loot they offered in year 2.
There was also a problem where raid drops suffered from multiple layers of RNG; Getting the gun to drop and then getting a high enough Light Level on it. This wasn't compelling to me so my playtime fell off.
tldr: highly enjoyable gameplay with lots of room for improvement in its gameplay systems.
Just want to chime in and say that I'm a day 1 player that plays crucible almost exclusively, and mostly just skirmish (why does it have to rotate with salvage now:?!). I still don't have icebreaker, so I do the nightfalls, but before yesterday I definitely don't raid anymore, or any other PVE stuff. From what I can tell, the people that don't mostly play crucible are people that took a long break or are new to the game. Say what you will about the quality of crucible, meta, etc, but it's far less boring than doing a strike for the 1000th time.
Agreed.
Also please fix many armors looking fucking boring. give weapons and armors identity beyond exotic items and quest items.
You don't play much FPS if you think that.
wesleyshark
Banned
I just want my favorite Warlock chest piece back pls* 😀
*I still have three in my vault from ye olden days. Couldn't bring myself to part with them
Damn right it is the best!
I like you. We can be friends :b
VoG is best raid and gives best looking armor set to best class in the game
everyday math
Banned
The problem with armor is that they spent so much artistic time making cool looking armor for blues and greens. That you'll never use after a day. Instead of just making a small amount for them. And leaving a larger armor pool for purples.
wesleyshark
Banned
Friends confirmed. 👊I like you. We can be friends :b
VoG is best raid and gives best looking armor set to best class in the game
It's scientifically proven that VoG was designed specifically for Warlock enjoyment.
I like you. We can be friends :b
VoG is best raid and gives best looking armor set to best class in the game
I'd like to be friends with you both...if you weren't filthy warlocks!
The jumping puzzle says otherwise (if we are talking about design since ignoring the puzzle was never the design)
everyday math
Banned
Warlocks are OP. Scummy warlocks.
wesleyshark
Banned
It wouldn't be a problem if the variety didn't taper off once you hit purple range. The multitude of green and blue loot is a clever initial pull for new players to want to get new stuff, and quickly. By the time you are too highly leveled for those items, you're already hooked haha.
josecitoxnyo
Member
The opposite, I know that cause i play too many.
I don't remember anymore, could Hunter skip all of it? I know Titan can and Warlock can skip most of it.
wesleyshark
Banned
This Warlock loves the jumping puzzle. The floaty descent makes crossing the chasm a breeze. I honestly had the most trouble doing it with my Titan, initially.
Edit: oh I see what you mean by skipping- aka jumping across the entire thing?
veloxStrix
Banned
I hope they remodel the loot system. Make Greens and Blues just as good as Epics and Exotics as far as armor goes. Maybe even with the potential to sometimes be better statswise. Give more interesting and build around effects to the Epics and make Exotics even more rare and flashier.
My biggest beef with Destiny wasn't even the story and the way it was presented. It was that it was a loot game that really sucked as a loot game.
My biggest beef with Destiny wasn't even the story and the way it was presented. It was that it was a loot game that really sucked as a loot game.
With the Blade Dancer super you could stab your way across.
Jest Chillin
Member
Every class can skip most of it but yeah, Arc Hunters could skip the whole thing swimming the air.
The ones asking you for proof are the two posters that keep downplaying destiny constantly.
I agree with you, PVP is what keeps the game being the driving force between lulls in content, it's been that way throughout the whole life of destiny and once trials was released a good portion of PVP players concentrated on that every weekend. It's something that keeps people coming back. I've played this game for over 2000 hours and there was a good while there I would only play PVP and not much else.
The main change I would like to see for destiny is changes are seperated between PVP and PVE. I would be shocked if that's not the case coming up.
Weird. Then you have a completely different opinion of what fun is and what is boring than me.
I can't think of any Destiny gun that felt "fun" shooting, the aim assist and everything else made it feel like everything is too easy, no gun is really unique in their shooting ways.
I think many weapons from the newest doom, lawbreakers, overwatch, even dead space weapons or fear feel more fun
or transmogrify items like in diablo
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