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[VlaudTheImpaler]

30FPS has never held them back from being successful. They have spent over 15 years building FPS gameplay design around that number & have given several talks in the past as to why they pursue it as a design choice. Destiny 1 is massively successful and is also 30fps.

Do you really think this would still be true when launching on a platform full of 60fps + shooters?... This is what is expected on PC at the bare minimum IMO. You'd have to be daft to think that you could release a competitive multiplayer shooter in that market at 30fps when everyone will be able to tell the difference immediately by comparing it to all the other competitive shooters that they play...

I've followed bungie and Halo my entire life and I will always believe that they chose 30fps as a sacrifice to keep up with that days current visuals on console. They can phrase it any way they want, I will always think it just a clever excuse. I do think they did the right thing. But they where absolutely working with the limited power that they had as well as engine restrictions and current gen graphics expectations in a world where 60fps was just so rare. Once Halo went 60fps there was no going back period. It was absolutely seen as a boon.

I look at all these very popular and competitive PC shooters and I don't see how even the variable refresh rates there have negatively impacted them. From arena shooters like CSGO to more open world like Wildlands and Battlegrounds, I don't think the variable refresh rates are hindering them or effecting gameplay so much that it would benefit them to design their game around a set fps point. On consoles where everything is more or less uniform sure, you could probably get away with it, but on PC this is definitely not what is expected. I think they are making a giant mistake if they really want to die on their "30fps as a design choice" hill when it comes to PC.

I personally would give it a hard pass myself after experiencing the glory of multiple 60fps shooters. I don't want to have to deal with adjusting to playing at an inferior framerate just for one first person shooter. Especially after putting so much time into the first Destiny and falling out of love with it specifically because of it's multiplayer. The other 60fps shooters that I was playing at the time felt far more enjoyable to play.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

But that's all cosmetic? I want stuff that will change up gameplay, similar to different weapons and abilities while on foot.

I'd be happy with that,
I was just giving an easy example of what they could do without getting into mechanical side of it.

 

[BennyBlanco]

30 fps on a console sitting on a couch with a controller feels totally different than 30 fps on kb+m sitting directly in front of the display.

after so many hours of 144fps overwatch even 60 doesnt seem that smooth to me.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Gameplay designed around 30 fps huh? That's a ridiculous statement. They target 30 fps for the same reason every other dev targets 30 fps. Rebalancing weapons for 60 fps and 30 fps? As if a higher framerate PC version is some rare thing which requires entirely new balancing for the PC versions of other games. If anything requires rebalancing between platforms it's input methods, keyboard and mouse vs controller. My prediction, not only is the PC version not 30 fps, it won't have a fixed framerate at all on PC like almost every other PC game developed by a competent development studio.

 

[SapientWolf]

I think the fact that it is being presented alongside the PC version and there's no cross-gen versions to worry about strongly suggests 60fps on consoles.

Isn't Destiny a more open world design than a traditional 60fps FPS? I could see them targeting that but I can't see them maintaining it.

 

[BigEmil]

Isn't Destiny a more open world design than a traditional 60fps FPS? I could see them targeting that but I can't see them maintaining it.

Borderlands an open world design FPS game runs at 60fps on consoles

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Borderlands an open world design FPS game runs at 60fps on consoles

Come on, ports don't count.

 

[BigEmil]

Come on, ports don't count.

It's doable just prioritise on developing the game on performance than visuals

 

[ZeoVGM]

Don't worry, I've got the first screenshots of the 60 FPS mode on PS4:

Nirolak.

What the fuck is that?

 

[ZeoVGM]

You think they won't do that again? Leave out parts to sell later as expansions? This is Activision and Bungie were talking about.

That isn't what happened with the original Destiny so there's no reason to believe it will here either.

 

[psyfi]

I'd be happy with that,
I was just giving an easy example of what they could do without getting into mechanical side of it.

Yeah, but my point is that space combat would be relatively flat compared to the multitude of options available in ground combat via weapons / armor / abilities, and I don't think Bungie would opt to include space combat if they couldn't figure out a way to give it similar variety / depth. It's hard for me to imagine how they'd achieve that. I could see it being a novelty in a story mission or two, but not a big part of the game.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Does anyone think that the YTs have a little too much influence in the game?

I remember when Sleeper quest was available, it really didn't take much effort to earn. People were disappointed, especially the vocal YTs. In response, it seemed Bungie went the complete opposite direction with Outbreak Prime. This quest required something off the actual Bungie website to determine where to stand; turn on all in-game monitors; understand binary to tell people where exactly to stand, then finish the raid; then the best part figure out a number that three people in your party could all meet to unlock the little stupid...

fuck it, it was needlessly complicated.

Anyway, that was my rant.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It's doable just prioritise on developing the game on performance than visuals

I would personally rather have a prettier game than 60 FPS.

Destiny plays fantastically in 30 FPS and I have no issue playing it alongside Overwatch.

 

[Durante]

Gameplay designed around 30 fps huh? That's a ridiculous statement. They target 30 fps for the same reason every other dev targets 30 fps. Rebalancing weapons for 60 fps and 30 fps? As if a higher framerate PC version is some rare thing which requires entirely new balancing for the PC versions of other games. If anything requires rebalancing between platforms it's input methods, keyboard and mouse vs controller.

Indeed.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

You think they won't do that again? Leave out parts to sell later as expansions? This is Activision and Bungie were talking about.

no I don't, Destiny was insanely successful despite itself and I hated that game but I really expect Bungee to knock it out of the park this time. So long as the development isn't as fucked up as Destiny's was, I don't think we've got anything to worry about

 

[BigEmil]

I would personally rather have a prettier game than 60 FPS.

Destiny plays fantastically in 30 FPS and I have no issue playing it alongside Overwatch.

60fps is pretty visuals though. Visible while in motion and while standing still as everything moves nicely.
It also enhances your gaming experience with more responsive and smoother controls

 

[Obliterator]

Destiny 2 has significantly larger environments with towns / outposts, and also they improved the rendering / graphics engine.

It's not gonna be 60fps (except on PC of course)

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

This game better work well on PC. And please, have parties (normal parties) bigger than 3. Also, please god have a high tick rate and dedicated servers. Please oh please do this for me.

 

[Renekton]

This game better work well on PC. And please, have parties (normal parties) bigger than 3. Also, please god have a high tick rate and dedicated servers. Please oh please do this for me.

NooooooooouuuuuuOOOoooo000

My group always has trouble getting a 4th guy every coop

 

[SapientWolf]

Borderlands an open world design FPS game runs at 60fps on consoles

It also frequently drops to the 40s when there are enemies on screen.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-borderlands-the-handsome-collection-face-off

Even Battllefield 1 drops frames on the Pro. The only reason CoD can generally keep a steady 60 is because it's still a corridor shooter.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

This game better work well on PC. And please, have parties (normal parties) bigger than 3. Also, please god have a high tick rate and dedicated servers. Please oh please do this for me.

Nah. The 3 party deal was unique. They should keep the rule of 3.

 

[MrBenchmark]

This game better work well on PC. And please, have parties (normal parties) bigger than 3. Also, please god have a high tick rate and dedicated servers. Please oh please do this for me.

Dedicated Servers right..... doubt it.

I've said this before it's great that it's gonna be on PC but it'll be the first platform to go dead PC gamers move on quickly. I have a fully capable PC and a PRO and Xbox One and will have a Scorpio.
And i won't give them money for the PS4 version this time the exclusives aren't worth me playing a fantastic shooter on a terrible controller and PS4 has always had more red bars and connection issues compared to playing on Xbox.

I've played Destiny 1 on Both systems since day one i hung up the PS4 version recently tired of my R2's breaking. More friends on Xbox anyway. All my opinion and preferences of course.

 

[oSoLucky]

no I don't, Destiny was insanely successful despite itself and I hated that game but I really expect Bungee to knock it out of the park this time. So long as the development isn't as fucked up as Destiny's was, I don't think we've got anything to worry about

I'm pretty sure there have already been rumblings of troubled development.

I still feel like the game is going to have a much, much larger user base on console unless the game design is changed up substantially. It was always hard explaining to a lot of PC players that never played the first, but I really doubt there will be much there to keep a strong community for more than a few months(I really hope I'm wrong on this). It would be nice to play with my PC circle(who generally play Blizzard and strategy games) and my console friends.

I'm calling PC version dead in 6 months and all the PC only gamers wondering what the hell the fuss was about.

Dedicated Servers right..... doubt it.

I've said this before it's great that it's gonna be on PC but it'll be the first platform to go dead PC gamers move on quickly. I have a fully capable PC and a PRO and Xbox One and will have a Scorpio.
And i won't give them money for the PS4 version this time the exclusives aren't worth me playing a fantastic shooter on a terrible controller and PS4 has always had more red bars and connection issues compared to playing on Xbox.

I've played Destiny 1 on Both systems since day one i hung up the PS4 version recently tired of my R2's breaking. More friends on Xbox anyway. All my opinion and preferences of course.

It's so much effort trying to keep up on 2 platforms. I ended up dropping Xbox a few months before PS. Just doing 6 Nightfalls and Raids makes me want to pull my hair out not to mention everything else.

 

[farisr]

While crossplay is not gonna be a thing, I hope Bungie has considered/figured out a shared profile system, where you have a Bungie.net profile you can link your PSN/XBL/Steam tags to, and use your character/progress on whatever system you want.

If the game is good, I may just double dip if that profile/character carries over.

 

[SneakersSO]

Gameplay designed around 30 fps huh? That's a ridiculous statement. They target 30 fps for the same reason every other dev targets 30 fps. Rebalancing weapons for 60 fps and 30 fps? As if a higher framerate PC version is some rare thing which requires entirely new balancing for the PC versions of other games. If anything requires rebalancing between platforms it's input methods, keyboard and mouse vs controller. My prediction, not only is the PC version not 30 fps, it won't have a fixed framerate at all on PC like almost every other PC game developed by a competent development studio.

I wholly agree that a locked 30fps on PC would be absolutely ludicrous given what that audience cares about & wants. As someone who has worked on an FPS before, I can tell ya that a targeted/intended framerate absolutely plays a part in the technical gameplay design.

I was merely framing the conversation over what Bungie has said about 30fps gameplay design in the past, not saying that are going to go 30fps or justify it. If its locked 30fps on PC, its DOA; they are well aware of that.

 

[Obliterator]

While crossplay is not gonna be a thing, I hope Bungie has considered/figured out a shared profile system, where you have a Bungie.net profile you can link your PSN/XBL/Steam tags to, and use your character/progress on whatever system you want.

If the game is good, I may just double dip if that profile/character carries over.

If I could carry my progress between versions I would legit buy this game on all 3 platforms

 

[TyrantII]

It's doable just prioritise on developing the game on performance than visuals

Destiny will not be skimping on space magic alpha effects and particle systems.

It's going to be interesting to see what they can do, but I won't be suprised to see it capped at 30 on consoles still.

 

[BigEmil]

It also frequently drops to the 40s when there are enemies on screen.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-borderlands-the-handsome-collection-face-off

Even Battllefield 1 drops frames on the Pro. The only reason CoD can generally keep a steady 60 is because it's still a corridor shooter.

That's the old post-patch. Go check their latest patch it's stable 60fps on digital foundry.

Battlefront like Battlefield 64 player big map multiplayer stable 60 on consoles also and that's not on even on a Pro. It all depends on what devs want to prioritise more, some more added visual and alpha effects or more stable 60fps.

Destiny will not be skimping on space magic alpha effects and particle systems.

It's going to be interesting to see what they can do, but I won't be suprised to see it capped at 30 on consoles still.

Whichever is most sellable to the main audience which is more graphix at 30fps

 

[MrBenchmark]

I'm pretty sure there have already been rumblings of troubled development.

I still feel like the game is going to have a much, much larger user base on console unless the game design is changed up substantially. It was always hard explaining to a lot of PC players that never played the first, but I really doubt there will be much there to keep a strong community for more than a few months(I really hope I'm wrong on this). It would be nice to play with my PC circle(who generally play Blizzard and strategy games) and my console friends.

I'm calling PC version dead in 6 months and all the PC only gamers wondering what the hell the fuss was about.




It's so much effort trying to keep up on 2 platforms. I ended up dropping Xbox a few months before PS. Just doing 6 Nightfalls and Raids makes me want to pull my hair out not to mention everything else.

right there with ya. Once i finally got Zen meteor i was like yup i'm good got all the exclusives and i just don't have the friends on PS4 most are my son's friends and they do not play Destiny as He is a hardcore souls/born player.

 

[TyrantII]

Dedicated Servers right..... doubt it.

It's going to need them, at least on PC. Look what happened with The Division.

P2P would allow people to get between the host and other players. Crack the game, spoof the data, and you ruin the shared game as a service.

Maybe Bungie has a trick up their sleeves?

 

[Renekton]

It's going to need them, at least on PC. Look what happened with The Division.

P2P would allow people to get between the host and other players. Crack the game, spoof the data, and you ruin the shared game as a service.

Maybe Bungie has a trick up their sleeves?

I wonder if they can hybrid this, like dedicated for Raids and P2P otherwise.

Bungie is no stranger to Frankenstein solutions.

 

[SapientWolf]

That's the old post-patch. Go check their latest patch it's stable 60fps on digital foundry.

Battlefront like Battlefield 64 player big map multiplayer stable 60 on consoles also and that's not on even on a Pro. It all depends on what devs want to prioritise more, some more added visual and alpha effects or more stable 60fps.


Whichever is most sellable to the main audience which is more graphix at 30fps

I stand corrected on Blands, but I know that Bfield and Bfront have drops for sure. Especially Bfield.

 

[Nirolak]

I don't think comparing Destiny to competitive shooters is actually the right angle.

It's not like 80%+ of the audience is buying this game to maybe play a few hours of the campaign and then play 50-100+ hours of Crucible. The biggest selling point is the co-op MMO part, which puts it more in line with the audience buying 30 FPS open world games like Ghost Recon or The Division, or even people playing GTA Online.

The scale, scope, and interactivity of PvE is going to be seen as more critical than framerate.

 

[MrBenchmark]

It's going to need them, at least on PC. Look what happened with The Division.

P2P would allow people to get between the host and other players. Crack the game, spoof the data, and you ruin the shared game as a service.

Maybe Bungie has a trick up their sleeves?

I really hope it does on all platforms. It needs it P2P sucks period! i pay good money for a great connection and have great network equipment and it's always so great to get beat by red bar or even green bars that are either blinking everywhere or just can't be killed.

My wish is Dedicated servers for sure and crossplay and crossbuy xbox to pc and character cross over. won't happen though with Sony/Activision slobbing each others knobs.

 

[InsaneTiger]

I don't think comparing Destiny to competitive shooters is actually the right angle.

It's not like 80%+ of the audience is buying this game to maybe play a few hours of the campaign and then play 50-100+ hours of Crucible. The biggest selling point is the co-op MMO part, which puts it more in line with the audience buying 30 FPS open world games like Ghost Recon or The Division, or even people playing GTA Online.

The scale, scope, and interactivity of PvE is going to be seen as more critical than framerate.

You nailed it.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I don't think comparing Destiny to competitive shooters is actually the right angle.

It's not like 80%+ of the audience is buying this game to maybe play a few hours of the campaign and then play 50-100+ hours of Crucible. The biggest selling point is the co-op MMO part, which puts it more in line with the audience buying 30 FPS open world games like Ghost Recon or The Division, or even people playing GTA Online.

The scale, scope, and interactivity of PvE is going to be seen as more critical than framerate.

All of those games are 60fps capable on PC though offline or on... Do you really think PC gamers would be as happy if they weren't? Do you really think those games would be just as successful at keeping their playerbase in the face of other shooters that have variable refresh rates?

The whole point is that this is expected on PC and it is even the norm. Especially with a shooter. Releasing a locked 30fps shooter into a sea of 60fps + shooters is really questionable and IMO a bad move.

EDIT: Unless you are talking about consoles only. I could see that.

 

[Renekton]

I don't think comparing Destiny to competitive shooters is actually the right angle.

It's not like 80%+ of the audience is buying this game to maybe play a few hours of the campaign and then play 50-100+ hours of Crucible. The biggest selling point is the co-op MMO part, which puts it more in line with the audience buying 30 FPS open world games like Ghost Recon or The Division, or even people playing GTA Online.

The scale, scope, and interactivity of PvE is going to be seen as more critical than framerate.

Hmm you are right. The 60fps requirement will put a serious limit on raid encounter and quest design which are big draws for this type of game.

 

[liezryou]

How does increasing the FPS make a game worse? Like 60 FPS always looks better then 30 FPS so why are people arguing for the lower FPS cap?

 

[Dead Prince]

so sony stay locked with D2? nice.

 

[Renekton]

How does increasing the FPS make a game worse? Like 60 FPS always looks better then 30 FPS so why are people arguing for the lower FPS cap?

60fps eats a ton of performance budget which puts a difficult cap on how designers can design quests, environments, enemies, raid encounters etc. Bear in mind we are talking about the weak console Jaguar CPUs.

 

[Horseticuffs]

Even though I own a baller PC and never raided in D1, D2 was what got the idea of buying a Pro in my head.

I actually cancelled my PC pre-order in order to order for the PS4. That's where​ all my D1 homies at.

 

[mcrommert]

I don't think comparing Destiny to competitive shooters is actually the right angle.

It's not like 80%+ of the audience is buying this game to maybe play a few hours of the campaign and then play 50-100+ hours of Crucible. The biggest selling point is the co-op MMO part, which puts it more in line with the audience buying 30 FPS open world games like Ghost Recon or The Division, or even people playing GTA Online.

The scale, scope, and interactivity of PvE is going to be seen as more critical than framerate.

Some people like the raid coop stuff the most, for others it's crucible

Everyone should stop making excuses for bungies bad design philosophy

 

[Nirolak]

All of those games are 60fps capable on PC though offline or on... Do you really think PC gamers would be as happy if they weren't? Do you really think those games would be just as successful at keeping their playerbase in the face of other shooters that have variable refresh rates?

The whole point is that this is expected on PC and it is even the norm. Especially with a shooter. Releasing a locked 30fps shooter into a sea of 60fps + shooters is really questionable and IMO a bad move.

EDIT: Unless you are talking about consoles only. I could see that.

I'm not talking about PC. They will nigh assuredly let you run the PC version at any framerate you want, be that 120 fps or 12 fps.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

so sony stay locked with D2? nice.

 

[Herp Derpington]

While crossplay is not gonna be a thing, I hope Bungie has considered/figured out a shared profile system, where you have a Bungie.net profile you can link your PSN/XBL/Steam tags to, and use your character/progress on whatever system you want.

If the game is good, I may just double dip if that profile/character carries over.

Oh God yes. It's been my biggest complaint about the first game. All they need to do is disable your PS4 exclusives if you switch accounts. It can be done.

so sony stay locked with D2? nice.

Why?

 

[RoboPlato]

I don't think comparing Destiny to competitive shooters is actually the right angle.

It's not like 80%+ of the audience is buying this game to maybe play a few hours of the campaign and then play 50-100+ hours of Crucible. The biggest selling point is the co-op MMO part, which puts it more in line with the audience buying 30 FPS open world games like Ghost Recon or The Division, or even people playing GTA Online.

The scale, scope, and interactivity of PvE is going to be seen as more critical than framerate.

I agree with this which is why I keep going back and forth on if I think it'll happen.

 

[psyfi]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/ca0f357743e3d0999c4a76bfffb726cb/tumblr_nhzmn4BwCC1s46p8ao1_500.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]
what in the actual fuck is this supposed to mean

 

[Sarcasm]

I don't think comparing Destiny to competitive shooters is actually the right angle.

It's not like 80%+ of the audience is buying this game to maybe play a few hours of the campaign and then play 50-100+ hours of Crucible. The biggest selling point is the co-op MMO part, which puts it more in line with the audience buying 30 FPS open world games like Ghost Recon or The Division, or even people playing GTA Online.

The scale, scope, and interactivity of PvE is going to be seen as more critical than framerate.

All which can get 60FPS on PC....

 

[camac002]

It also frequently drops to the 40s when there are enemies on screen.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-borderlands-the-handsome-collection-face-off

Getting off topic now, but didn't they have a performance patch later?

 

[ocean]

I can see 30 vs 60 being up for debate in the console space. But it's absolutely ridiculous to even imagine they'd cap frame rates on PC. Like there's zero chance of them capping 30 on PC.

They'll get enough shit for missing impossible expectations as is - they can't afford to fuck up on something so basic right off the bat.