th4tguy
Member
What is sad, is that I wouldn't be surprised if everyone of those complaints is due to limitations placed on Bungie for having to support past gen consoles.
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Destiny - Review Thread
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What is sad, is that I wouldn't be surprised if everyone of those complaints is due to limitations placed on Bungie for having to support past gen consoles.
Anton Sugar
Member
I really don't think saying "well, the story sucks in this other game too, so..." is a productive way of deconstructing this criticism.
Destiny was hyped, by Bungie, as an epic and story-driven game. Some have tried to pin disappointment back on the player, as a fault of "you shouldn't believe the hype" but the fact of the matter is, Bungie said the story would be important in this world/game.
The art is incredible. Even some of the lore sounds very interesting--but it means little if the delivery is poor. Poor dialogue, NPCs who don't explain anything, and having to dig into the Grimoire=bad execution.
I have many of the same criticisms, but to me they're being lauded with way too much emphasis and disregard for the positives of the game. And whilst there was a tonne of marketing for the game, Activision gave us an Alpha and a BETA, so actually, the hype for many was self serving. People played the Alpha/BETA, and loved it, and bought in to the hype. Prior to those, the hype levels were actually pretty deflated.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=838460
And with regards to the haters or trolls, I am largely referring to people like you, who I find to be insidious to forum conversations, and totally incapable of rationale discussions. I accept Detsiny's criticisms and flaws, many I agree with, some I don't. But when I give you a list of positives about some of the late level Destiny options that open up, and in doing so grant an extra layer of depth to the game, and with it fun, this is the kid of idiotic response I am met with.
Firstly, what the hell with the gift from Gods malarkey and all the rest.
Secondly, what the fuck does it matter that it's something that is neither unique or surprising? Does it exist and does it do the things that I said? YES. More skill tree's, branching options, individual weapon and equipment skill tree's and more options and so on, DO add tactical consideration and depth to the game, it's combat and it's progression system. Whether these things are unique or surprising is completely besides the point. None of this has to be unique, all that matters is whether it's fun and adds depth, not whether or not it's innovative.
Absolutely Fan-freaking-tastic! XD
"But then, it looked like it ran out of batteries or something..."
Really reminding me of those "The Secret Lives of ____" Series parodying the various Halo aliens.
Anton Sugar
Member
And mother of god, I still can't believe how ham-fisted the travel interface/process is.
From the tower, if I want to go somewhere, I have to:
Choose to go into orbit
Wait ~10 seconds as your ship/orbit loads
From orbit, look at the map
Pick a destination
CONFIRM the destination (from a different screen)
Wait ~10 seconds as your ship/destination loads
Wait ~10 seconds as your ship orbits and lands
I really do appreciate that you can mess with your character from the load screens, but holy shit, would it really have broken "immersion" that much to press a button, look at your map, pick a destination, then just travel there?
Load screens literally load other load screens, or at least that's what it seems.
From the tower, if I want to go somewhere, I have to:
Choose to go into orbit
Wait ~10 seconds as your ship/orbit loads
From orbit, look at the map
Pick a destination
CONFIRM the destination (from a different screen)
Wait ~10 seconds as your ship/destination loads
Wait ~10 seconds as your ship orbits and lands
I really do appreciate that you can mess with your character from the load screens, but holy shit, would it really have broken "immersion" that much to press a button, look at your map, pick a destination, then just travel there?
Load screens literally load other load screens, or at least that's what it seems.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Yep. Me too. I had another where it was just me and one other dude.
I've honestly been wondering if that has been the case considering how the last gen versions are functionally identical.
I should also have added that there really needs to be more options to kick and quit out of Strikes. When I first tried to do the the Jupiter one, I fell in to a group that was attempting to do the Nexus exploit over and over (They were already in progress and obviously had been doing it for a long while before I got there). The next one had a player who for no reason was spinning in one spot looking at the floor for what was probably 7 minutes (I know they weren't disconnected because they eventually did continue the mission like nothing happened). I couldn't figure out how to leave these besides actually logging out of my character and obviously there was no option to kick the spinning guy. They need to figure that out.
Fushichou187
Member
Thought the Eurogamer review was the one most aligned with my own thoughts, though I'd personally probably give Destiny a 7.5 right now. Still, I keep coming back to it and am enjoying it when I do.
Yesterday I kinda had an old school WoW experience playing. Was running a level 22 strike on my level 21. Anyone who's done an underleveled strike will tell you it takes a few headshots to kill anything. The rest of the team was also 21. Needless to say, it was very challenging. But amidst the challenge, the other two guys were really good players. No one had mics, but everyone helped each other out. We could almost read each other's needs and wants just by the situation at hand. At one point we even resorted to pointing out enemies using emotes. It was really cool, and I'm happy to report we killed the Archon Priest on the first try in a tense hour 45 minute encounter.
I see the delivery of the story to be sort of an interesting way to do it. You are this dude that has been dead a very long time, and get resurrected into a situation you know nothing about. Instead of being sat down for a three semester hour course on intergalactic politics, you read about it on your own.
I made the comparison to another game because I am trying to understand the need to fault a game for what it is not instead of enjoying it for what it is.
Right now the story does feel like it is just a prologue. It does look like there are story based events coming up though if you look at the event schedule that Bungie put out. If bungie is staggering the release of story elements to prevent the entire thing from being consumed in one week, and the story ends up amazing, are the review sites going to go back and ammend all their reviews? Are the members here going to change their views, or are they going to complain that it all should have been available day one?
Bungie seems to be set up for a fairly aggressive schedule for community events and cycling content that I think we may need to see before we can fully appreciate it.
It would suck if I am wrong, but I know at this point that I am going to get my 60+ hours out of this game. That is a hell of a lot more than I got out of The Last of Us and numerous other games, so I am completely satisfied. Pining away for some ideal version that we don't have is only going to sour the experience, which is true of everything from video games to food.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
And that's exactly what matters.
I can see why it reviewed so "poorly" but I'm pretty sure it's a fun game.
Anton Sugar
Member
Where can I read about why I was chosen? Where can I read about the purpose of The Traveler and why The Darkness is following it? Where can I read about why these alien races are all fighting each other?
We don't need a three hour course; we need something better than "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain" and "it's so evil it hates other evil".
Horrid dialogue aside, fine. That explanation does NOTHING to differentiate this group of robot bad guys from the group of monster bad guys. They're all just bad guys.
Holy SHIT, that video was annoying. So because some reviewers didn't have fun while playing Destiny, they don't like video games? Maybe those idiots should try to understand why people other than themselves are not having fun.
EDIT: For the record, I am having fun in this game when I am playing with my friends. It's a chore to play SP, IMO. Even though we're having fun, we know it has flaws.
Muffdraul
Member
Every video game that gets released and is played by people, some of those people have fun, and some don't. Usually, there's no federal case made about it. With Destiny, it's ratcheted up to one of the most ridiculous shit storms I've seen since FFVII was released in the US. That's when I say "Holy SHIT, that's annoying."
People are putting emphasis on the negatives because they want the game to improve, because that is the only way Bungie will understand that they ARE negatives and should be improved. That doesn't mean people can't talk about the positives, but you are doing the exact same thing in the opposite direction, putting emphasis on the positives while ignoring and responding to anyone with a negative opinion on something.
And you think you are any better spouting stuff like this. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You are immediately labeling and dismissing people to make yourself win the argument. When in reality there was no argument. Someone pointed out a flaw. You pointed out a positive. They were being hyperbolic about the negative. And you're being hyperbolic about the positive. But you seem to be personally against the discussion of any negatives. You keep claiming you aren't, but then claim you're mad that people don't talk about positives more.
Accepting doesn't mean people need to stop talking about them just because you don't like it. This is what you are doing. "Accepting" flaws doesn't mean you take what you get and "accept" it. Especially when most of these flaws were born out of poor design choices, entering a genre that has existed for the better part of 2 decades now.
You can love a game and gush all over it. That's fine and dandy.
But you are trying to act like the ability to customize characters and having a linked PVP-PVE experience are incredible, magical wonders. Literally hyping them up to make them sound greater than they are in reality. Stuff that has been around in games for ages. Sure, it can be fun, and it does add depth, no argument there. But you're using extreme hyperbole to describe a very mundane and expected thing in a game.
And then wonder why so many people are feeling deflated from the game not living up to the hype. It's because of descriptions like this.
I'm sorry if you think I'm being a killjoy here, but if you just want to circlejerk to the positives of this game (Which I have already admitted there are many), you can go to the OT.
Ok this guy is good.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Curious. Where is the more engaging combat? From 1-20 its the same thing. Go over by there, hit square, shoot the shiny spots on things. AI is still sub-par with seemingly the only routine being get behind cover and strafe, boss encounters are still just "shoot the core!" where the only difficulty is add spawns to overwhelm the player with the same non-brilliant AI, pick up ammo and continue shooting the bright spots.
All the gear and stat combinations in the world and excellent gunplay won't mean jack when coupled next to sub-par, one lane only combat mechanics.
The GR article above didn't mention a single thing about mechanics. Imagine a game like WoW if every boss fight was tank-n-spank with adds. Every damn time.
Until we start seeing some actual movement towards honest to goodness gameplay and unique encounters, Destiny is a bust. And if there will be actual gameplay at some point, who will honestly stick with it that long by slogging through the same tunnel-vision mechanics over and over just to get there? It will tire people out by that time.
Hilarious, but how dare he sully the PSO theme.
Super on point. Nobody is attacking Bungie or Destiny with any kind of vitriol. They are just voicing their opinions on elements of the game they wish were better, and dismissing them has "haters", or referring to their opinions as "toxic", is not conducive to any kind of discussion.
Mister Zimbu
Member
That's what gets me- and I'm assuming most people panning the game. I'm okay with loot grinds, that's how the loot genre works. WoW has loot grinds and Diablo has loot grinds.
The difference is, WoW and even Diablo's encounter design and combat made subsequent runs through the same dungeon fun (for awhile; runs 1-10 were fun, 500-1000 probably not so much), whereas in Destiny, besides one strike boss (Archon Priest), each Strike is the same dull slog over and over, with no creative or interesting mechanics whatsoever. And PvE grinding outside of strikes is even worse than that.
Anton Sugar
Member
Shooting does feel great.
The shit storm is the reaction to the average/above average reviews, though. That video is criticizing reviewers for "not having fun" and then a hand-wavey "you're all sheep, form your own opinions" dismissal of criticism. It's obnoxious.
This.
I should also note: I was a big Age of Conan fan. You want to talk about a game that was maligned at launch and transformed itself into something much better way down the line, due to more content, patches, etc.? That's Age of Conan. I don't think Destiny is a POS but I think it has a long way to go (and a lot to prove) before it can be called "great", IMO.
Destiny needs more content, sure, but I wonder if some of the mechanics can even be fixed. Can they add more content for sub-20 levels to use so they don't have to grind Strikes and other missions over and over? Can they add more NPCs who have relevance to the story and that you actually care about? Can they add more social options/matchmaking?
I think that the whole being forced into a fight that you don't understand is part of the story experience that is being crafted.
I keep coming back specifically to the line from
The Stranger when she says that she does not like the Queen of the Awoken because she exists between the light and the dark. Then she looks right at you or your ghost and says "You should always pick a side in a conflict, even if it is the wrong side.
That makes it feel like figuring out what the hell is going on, and what side is right or wrong is the story. Hopefully we get mor information from the Queen's special event that is supposed to be coming this month according to the event schedule.
The more I play (or more accurately, avoid playing) Destiny, the more I realize how much of a mess it is. The skeleton of a great experience is there, but it needs a Reaper of Souls level of improvement to deliver on its initial promise.
Its just not a very good loot game, single player experience, or PVP game. It might hold some niche appeal as a some sort of intersection of people that love Halo and are hardcore WoW raiding types, but how big is that audience really? It certainly doesn't sound big enough to justify a $1 billion investment without a monthly subscription.
This game is sort of like marketing Dungeons & Dragons as the next Cards Against Humanity. It's a fine game for what it is, but it just seems like its trading on the Bungie reputation to suggest its something other than a super grindy hardcore raiding game. It apes a lot of things from other games, but other games do all of those things better. The only unique element is so exclusive that only a small percentage of the early adopters will ever get to even experience it.
That's fine, but its not how you make the next Call of Duty or Halo level franchise.
Its just not a very good loot game, single player experience, or PVP game. It might hold some niche appeal as a some sort of intersection of people that love Halo and are hardcore WoW raiding types, but how big is that audience really? It certainly doesn't sound big enough to justify a $1 billion investment without a monthly subscription.
This game is sort of like marketing Dungeons & Dragons as the next Cards Against Humanity. It's a fine game for what it is, but it just seems like its trading on the Bungie reputation to suggest its something other than a super grindy hardcore raiding game. It apes a lot of things from other games, but other games do all of those things better. The only unique element is so exclusive that only a small percentage of the early adopters will ever get to even experience it.
That's fine, but its not how you make the next Call of Duty or Halo level franchise.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
The Eurogamer review is extremely well written, and also mirrors my sentiments for the game.
I would give it an 8.5 at the moment, but if I keep getting these farrrkin bad RNG rolls on my engrams, I'll reduce that to an 8.0 ;P
Cryptarch pls.
darkjedi187
Member
amen.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Except there's no sense of being forced, at least not in-universe. The PLAYER is forced to play as a Guardian, but the character seems perfectly okay with it. No questions or anything.
TheCanisDirus
Member
God, i thought i was in the minority detesting Destiny's "travel and wait 2 minutes" design. It's probably the worst i've ever seen. And ships as loading screen wastes of glimmer. Shitty.
If I just got raised from the dead and told go kill that shit over there that is wrecking everything everywhere I would probably just do it too.
They aren't wrong.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Really? You wouldn't even ask, say, whether or not those guys over there are actually wrecking everything everywhere? You'd have absolutely no questions?
I was hoping people would expand upon that. Because from the one strike mission I've played, it was serviceable but a step back from its pedigree, in my opinion.
Shooting has just as much to do with what's being shot as it does the mechanics that surround pulling the trigger. I have a profound dislike for the ADS mechanic as well, so that also plays into my middling opinion of the shooting.
The movement feels good, though.
AlwaysPlaying
Member
Im leaning toward Titan and want to know if the triple jump is that much more effective than the lift ability.
Muffdraul
Member
Bit of a moot point, since "those guys over there" attack you on sight.
I just got raised from the dead in the middle of a crazy war going on. I walk into a containment wall, and aliens start trying to kill me, so I kill them back. I get to the tower and dude with a pleasent voice tells me they are bad. Well, that makes sense. They tried to kill me.
Time to shut the fuck up and do what I am told.
ArkkAngel007
Member
The shooting is excellent, though if you dislike ADS then of course it's not going to be as good as Halo, Doom, or other games that don't have that mechanic.
The A.I. isn't that bad either. Not that much different from Halo. The only true exceptions is the parts you can break them because of the design choices in regards to the mmo-styling of spawns/placement. But there isn't really any way around that.
The only thing that is missing is weapon variety. There's the fusion rifle where you can somewhat spread your shot and isn't a regular projectile weapon, but for the most part it behaves exactly like one and doesn't do anything outside of the box the others sit in.
I also think grenades are extremely disappointing. Some are better than others, but overall they feel rather useless beyond a couple seconds of AoD.
I like what they're trying to convey, but I think they're being entirely too dismissive of reviewers. In the video they say themselves, does the game set out to do what it promised, for me the answer is no. I still have a lot of fun with the game in the right circumstances though(rolling with the squad). Destiny's great, but it's definitely not without it's flaws. That doesn't necessarily mean that reviewers and the internet are in an echo chamber saying that the game ain't shit, I'm sure a lot of them really are just underwhelmed with the game.
TheCanisDirus
Member
The weapon variety really is extremely poor. Shouldn't there be all these cool new hybrid weapons and weird shit in some future space game? It's, like you said, the few basic weapon types with simple skins. Where is my compound space bow that fires bolts of the traveler's light? And somewhat creative shit like that lol
Poodlestrike
Banned
Consider this: you never see a war going on. You show up, looking a lot like these guys who are apparently professional alien killers, so the aliens attack you on sight. You fight back, killing them all, and thus confirming their suspicions, so they keep trying to kill you. You slaughter them all, and following your little robot (who claims to have raised you from the dead, but really, who knows?) onto a space ship, where you travel to an enormous city that he assures you is the last one on earth. You speak to a guy who refuses to show you his face, and he assures you that yes, all the aliens are evil, they scare the children, now get out there and kill some more.
They never show you anything. It's all told to you by various expositors. Why wouldn't you ask some questions?
opticalmace
Member
Huh, I didn't realize W101 was at 78. I thought it was higher for some reason.
Krappadizzle
Member
Not much at all. Not enough to matter IMO. I have a level 24 Titan and level 20 Hunter with 3x jump unlocked. It's still the best movement ability the hunter has imo though.
For fuck's sake... I should have bailed when it got to arriving at Venus... no spoilers my ass!
AlwaysPlaying
Member
Thanks a bunch.
A few mediocre reviews, usually centered around the control scheme, brought the average down a fair bit. I don't really blame them considering how hard of a time some people had before the controls "clicked", usually long after the review was published.
However, at the same time, the fact that the game still managed to hold a 78 is actually a pleasant surprise.
Just to let whomever said farming was bad and I should play PvP... As I said before, regardless of what I think of PvP, playing it for PvE makes no sense in entirely. Even if I got LV25 with it, if the best way to level is to play Crucible, then I would be levelling to play level up in a mode I don't want to play.
As mentioned, I have done every PvE bounty since this game released (baring a couple from tonight) and every Strike on every difficulty that wasn't LV26 (weekly), and every daily thus far. The only drops I have got that took me from LV21 to LV24 have been from the LV4 enemies in story missions 3, and actually (rather hilariously) testing the AI with LV16 enemies back when this thread was on that topic.
I have bare Motes of Light and a few Strange Coins, but not enough of those or Vanguard Points unless I want to grind them as well for the weekend.
It is entirely luck based. I could play the whole day in Crucible and get naught as well. At this point, what's making me turn it on knowing I would have to continue to do the same thing in order to progress, but knowing that for the past 15 hours I haven't progressed?
I will probably farm for an hour a day while I get things sorted and I don't have anything else to play, and a daily when they come, but there's "nothing" for me to do. This is supposed to have a world of content, having naught to do a week into release, 40 hours in, when half of it has been repeating the same content, takes away from its enjoy ability.
As mentioned, I have done every PvE bounty since this game released (baring a couple from tonight) and every Strike on every difficulty that wasn't LV26 (weekly), and every daily thus far. The only drops I have got that took me from LV21 to LV24 have been from the LV4 enemies in story missions 3, and actually (rather hilariously) testing the AI with LV16 enemies back when this thread was on that topic.
I have bare Motes of Light and a few Strange Coins, but not enough of those or Vanguard Points unless I want to grind them as well for the weekend.
It is entirely luck based. I could play the whole day in Crucible and get naught as well. At this point, what's making me turn it on knowing I would have to continue to do the same thing in order to progress, but knowing that for the past 15 hours I haven't progressed?
I will probably farm for an hour a day while I get things sorted and I don't have anything else to play, and a daily when they come, but there's "nothing" for me to do. This is supposed to have a world of content, having naught to do a week into release, 40 hours in, when half of it has been repeating the same content, takes away from its enjoy ability.
I really think that is all part of the story.
We never get to interact with anyone outside the tower unless we are trying to kill them (with two exceptions). One of those characters is very heavily foreshadowing that we are fighting on the wrong side of things.
This all still feels like it was just the intro and the story will (hopefully) really start to ramp up with events leading up to the first DLC. They have a whole lot to work with here and several plot lines that are just in their infant stages.
For example,
Look at how developed the reef is. They put effort into setting up selecting it and having a map show up and what is it used for, two cut scenes? there are plans for that. Not sure when it will come to fruition, but it may be sooner rather than later.
Anton Sugar
Member
Can you at least understand why this isn't a particularly strong source of motivation? It's basically a prettier version of CoD storylines.
"Ramirez! Go blow up those bad guys."
There are zero stakes for your character. "Save the world" is your motive but there isn't anything motivating about it.
speculawyer
Member
Is IGN waiting for Jesus Bynum to return before they put out a review? C'mon.
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