Support NeoGAF

[QuantumBro]

If you're expecting a David Cage game to have a serious look at civil rights issues, you might want to readjust your expectations. It's a game about Detroit being made by French people who've never been to the city, they're way out of their league.

It'll guarantee to be hilarious at least.

 

[Figboy79]

Yeah, the black dude in heavy rain had me eye rolling hard, and I love heavy rain. He even had the requisite superhuman black man strength. Sigh.

With Detroit, however, we've only seen a smidgen of the game, and it's possible that there are more PoV characters like in HR. Also, the black cop in Indigo Prophecy was pretty cool. I'm giving Quantic Dream the benefit of the doubt here. We just haven't seen enough of the game, and I'd rather save as much as I can for the final release, personally.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

This is a story about civil rights that takes place in...Detroit . Two thirds of the playable characters are white. I guess you could make the argument that they aren't white "humans" but rather white androids so their race doesn't matter but that argument is pretty thin.

It's the classic science fiction trope of machines rising against the human inventors. It's not about historical civil rights in the US. Detroit was the locale chosen because it is historically known as the manufacturing capital of the US.

 

[Spring Drive]

If you're expecting a David Cage game to have a serious look at civil rights issues, you might want to readjust your expectations. It's a game about Detroit being made by French people who've never been to the city, they're way out of their league.

It'll guarantee to be hilarious at least.

But that's false. They have visited Detroit:

Detroit: Become Human Director on Being Respectful to Real Cities in Games

Detroit director David Cage says that you need to be respectful of the city and its people when you use it as a setting for a video game.

Detroit: Become Human was announced last year, and we finally saw gameplay footage of the narrative-driven game at Sony's E3 press conference. Game director David Cage stopped by GameSpot's live E3 stage show and talked to us about what developers must do if they use real-world cities in their games and why he chose Detroit.

Cage said setting a game in a real city is "a very sensitive thing" and that it was important to him and his team that it was done "in a very respectful way."

"[Detroit] has its own history; there are people living there. They love their city," he said. "You need to pay attention to that and be respectful and not just use what you want to use for a game."

Cage credited that history as what made him fall in love with Detroit and choose it as the setting for Become Human.

"It was an industrial giant in the 20th century and then it went through very hard times," Cage explained. "And now it's trying to be reborn again somehow. ... This idea of being very high and losing everything and coming back is so strong and it's such a human story.

Cage also mentioned its history of racial issues, in addition to Motown and "all the great artists" that contribute to the city's culture. However, Cage said you can't write about a city without going there. He noted that you could research it on the Internet and find pictures on Google, but you don't "feel the place, you don't know the people" that way.

"We visited the abandoned factories, the abandoned churches that everybody knows," Cage said. "But at the same time we saw some wonderful things, we met some incredible people. The Fox Theatre, for example, in Detroit is one of the most amazing places I've seen.

"The people there are full of energy and they're struggling and they're fighting, but they're revitalizing this city in a very interesting way. And all this combined, we came back from Detroit, thinking, 'Yeah, this is the place where we want this story to happen.'"

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/detroit-become-human-director-on-being-respectful-/1100-6440946/

 

[seb]

Maybe the black population is a DLC?

Spoiler

still bitter about BF1

 

[Strangelove77]

I'd also like to add that Cage would have also gotten shit for making a black android. I can't imagine the snark on here if that had happened. People would criticize it for lack of subtlety and being hokey.
To take it a step further, he could have made the android a gay black woman. Imagine how that would go.

We live in a world where a ton of people see having an all female cast in a movie as a "gimmick."
I've personally given up hope in gamers ever being so accepting. At least in my lifetime.

 

[Wanda/Wander]

let's be honest. The gaming press site is going to write an article about this no matter what. Would you rather have no black people in it or have the black people be the slave race in the game.

I don't understand why those two choices are mutually exclusive?

 

[Scrotum Phillips]

I just assumed it was an alternate universe version of Detroit considering there weren't burned out buildings and dumpster fires everywhere.

In a topic such as this, you go for the cheap joke that only serves to reinforce a negative stereotype of the city. Good one.

Regarding the topic, I think it's obviously still too soon to say anything definitive either way - other than that if the game is called "Detroit," it would be a huge miss if they don't try to be somewhat accurate in representing the city. From the trailers, it's good to see they've put in some of the work in getting much of Detroit's skyline in the game and that ultimately makes me optimistic they'll actually not be tone dead regarding this issue.

 

[Semantic Continuum]

Quantic Dream hired writers for this game.

They came and went. Hard to tell what their impact might be but don't forget that Cage is a major creative influence in its own studio.

 

[Strangelove77]

i never played it, just in general is it good?

It is if you liked Heavy Rain and like weird shit.
The writing is...it has problems. A lot of problems.
But the game is filled with some really cool moments that I think makes worth playing.
Think Deadly Premonition. If you like that sort of thing, I'd recommend it.

 

[guggnichso]

Okay, only looked at the second trailer, the one from E3. Both featured "charakters" were androids, made and built to serve.

One (the "bad android") was rebelling against its owners. The other one was servile towards its owners.

Would anyone here be really comfortable with either one of those (or both) slave things(!) being black? I think there would be a shitstorm brewing either way...

As far as I know, the "aryan android" we saw in the trailer might not even be the main character.

 

[prag16]

Heh. Was this from the first trailer?

If they have android of multiple races (including white), I can't see how any rational person would view it as "problematic".

Of course if ALL the androids were black, that would be another story.

 

[dan2026]

Well so far Cage hasn't written a good game.
So I would be more worried about that.

 

[Brocken]

This is a story about civil rights that takes place in...Detroit . Two thirds of the playable characters are white. I guess you could make the argument that they aren't white "humans" but rather white androids so their race doesn't matter but that argument is pretty thin.

This seems like a case of appropriating the story of the civil rights movement without actually having to deal with the realities of race in america. (i.e. the mutants in X-Men)

I say all of this knowing that there's still one more character that has yet to be revealed and there's so much story we don't know.

However it's hard for me to trust David Cage to handle a story about civil rights after he did this....

From which game is this character ?

 

[Omnistalgic]

Still early, but I see where you're coming from. This is a problem is video games as a whole though. Just not a lot of stuff targeted at minorities in general. Would love to see it one day

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Well so far Cage hasn't written a good game.

Good being a subjective word magnified in hyperbole on the internet.

 

[Wanda/Wander]

From which game is this character ?

Heavy Rain

 

[ezekial45]

It's the classic science fiction trope of machines rising against the human inventors. It's not about historical civil rights in the US. Detroit was the locale chosen because it is historically known as the manufacturing capital of the US.

That may be true to an extent, but you're missing where the OP is coming from. Detroit is a very diverse area, and yet we only see white people, as humans and androids, in this particular. Unless QD plans to talk about how Detroit in this game was heavily gentrified, then yeah I think it's fair to say that it's disappointing that there is isn't much diversity. Especially in light of how QD's past titles handled characters of other races.

 

[NumberTwo]

Spoiler

still bitter about BF1

What do you mean?

 

[Ronin Ray]

As an Asian, i am kind of uses to it.

If the game is not asian-oriented (Sleeping Dogs, Yakuza, Shenmue), you will never see an asian in it or be a part of the main cast.

Mirror Edge is probably the only game that is out of the norm

Yeah but you shouldn't have to be uses to it

 

[Htown]

It's the classic science fiction trope of machines rising against the human inventors. It's not about historical civil rights in the US. Detroit was the locale chosen because it is historically known as the manufacturing capital of the US.

You do realize that half the point of science fiction is to talk about real issues while framing it in a fantastical way, right? "Machines rising against the human inventors" has never just been about machines fighting humans.

 

[Spring Drive]

Heh. Was this from the first trailer?

Yes. This one, too:

 

[QuantumBro]

But that's false. They have visited Detroit:


http://www.gamespot.com/articles/detroit-become-human-director-on-being-respectful-/1100-6440946/

Hadn't read that, so I take back what I said. Heavy Rain and Beyond felt like they were written by someone who's knowledge of America came from movies, so I expected the same for this.

Good for him though, can't see that having anything but a positive effect on the final product.

 

[Mit-]

I just assumed it was an alternate universe version of Detroit considering there weren't burned out buildings and dumpster fires everywhere.

Actually, the reveal trailer showed plenty of blight still just outside the downtown area.

Also, I've never seen a dumpster fire in Detroit.

 

[Spring Drive]

From which game is this character ?

Heavy Rain

 

[Y2Kev]

If you're expecting a David Cage game to have a serious look at civil rights issues, you might want to readjust your expectations. It's a game about Detroit being made by French people who've never been to the city, they're way out of their league.

It'll guarantee to be hilarious at least.

Oh, yes, "hilarious." Cage has already spoken about the team visiting and exploring Detroit and about his efforts to capture the artists and history of the city.

Why would you rush to make such a poor post so thoroughly dripping in snark when it is so demonstrably false?

What is it about David Cage that causes this irrationality?

Anyway yes. I hope the treatment of minorities in a minority majority city is tasteful and appropriate. I hope they are a core part of the game because they are a core part of the city.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

That may be true to an extent, but you're missing where the OP is coming from. Detroit is a very diverse area, and yet we only see white people, as humans and androids, in this particular. Unless QD plans to talk about how Detroit in this game was heavily gentrified, then yeah I think it's fair to say that it's disappointing that there is isn't much diversity. Especially in light of how QD's past titles handled characters of other races.

I only saw the rooftop trailer and there wasn't enough of the population shown.

 

[StereoVsn]

Good being a subjective word magnified in hyperbole on the internet.

Yeah, for all their faults, I enjoyed all of Cage's games actually and double dipped on PS4. They were not perfect but decent games overall.

I also think its way, way too early to judge this game. Come on, we only had 2 brief trailers. Let the pitchforks and torches rest a bit.

 

[Dangansona]

We've seen two trailers for the game. Way too soon to judge.

Nah man, we need more hot takes like this.

 

[Ronin Ray]

Why was the guy in the trailer a straight up Keanu Reeves rip off?

 

[Figboy79]

I'm not a fan of the mentality of "well, if they made black androids, people would be pissed because black slavery!" That's not a reason to not do it: being reluctant because of a supposed minority boogeymen that are going to raise a fuss.

In the first Detroit trailer, they specifically showed a black woman android. There's a screenshot in this very thread. There was no fuss or hullabaloo about it. It doesn't look like just white androids are being manufactured, and I doubt that the only blacks in the game are going to be androids. It's weird to assume that that would be the case, and that there wouldn't be any human black people in the game.

Being afraid of criticism isn't why people create something and put it out there. Considering that people make up their mind about a David Cage game the moment they hear the name David Cage isn't lost on him, I'm sure. He chose a sensitive topic to craft a game around. He chose to set it in a city with a deep, complex history and culture. That's inviting criticism, so I doubt he was worried about people being angry about black androids. People get mad at anything David Cage, so he can't win anyway.

 

[TGO]

This should end thread, also only 2 characters so far

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Sorry, I don't live in Detroit, but there were a few black people in the first trailer. Was that too little ? I honestly don't know. As for the playable characters, yeah, we should wait.

 

[Spring Drive]

Also, Asian android:

Black human (?)

 

[Spring Drive]

I only saw the rooftop trailer and there wasn't enough of the population shown.

It tends to happen when a rogue android shoots everyone in the building on sight and the survivors get evacuated

 

[Dick Justice]

There was Paco Mendez if that counts. The criminal sleazeball club owner.

Funny thing, the guy who played Paco and the small-town sheriff in Beyond also played the walking black stereotype in Heavy Rain, as well as the black gravedigger guy and the Middle-Eastern shopkeeper. He also played the main character in Fahrenheit, as well as the jive-talking black cop.

 

[jaypah]

I think that if Androids became so easily available they would mostly be made white for sale in the US. There's too much racism in the history of the US and I'm pretty positive that no company would make a black Android for sale given the history of African slavery in the US.

You know how many people in the south would love to have their own "slave nigger"? Think about it.

Anyway, yeah it's set in Detroit but I don't expect there to be a lot of black people in it, android or not. Or maybe people will talk about it and they'll add some. I'm excited for the game but I'm not holding my breath for minority representation.

 

[Kalentan]

Also, Asian android:

Black human (?)

So basically the initial trailer did show diversity? Just the most recent one being more white? (But also showing way less people.)

Wait, wasn't there a downed cop that wasn't white in the newest trailer? I think?

 

[Spring Drive]

Why was the guy in the trailer a straight up Keanu Reeves rip off?

 

[True Fire]

We're not talking background characters. Lots of games with all-white casts have minorities as background characters, which just shows how game developers treat diversity as window dressing.

The MCU, while not a video game, is the best case study. They have plenty of minority characters--a lifetime supply of "black best friends." But all of their protagonists from 2008 to 2018 were exclusively white men.

 

[Wanda/Wander]

I should add that I genuinely want to be proven wrong. If they can deliver a game that can tackle the tragedy and the beauty of Detroit, then that's an instant game of the year for me.

 

[sheamus]

I don't understand why those two choices are mutually exclusive?

Because the press is going to make this a issue one way or another. I can already see the polygon article. And with the current issues that America has with their black communities maybe they don't want to draw undue attention. Plus PR pivot for adding minorities is easier than having minorities portrayed in a negative light.

 

[Wanda/Wander]

Because the press is going to make this a issue one way or another. I can already see the polygon article. And with the current issues that America has with their black communities maybe they don't want to draw undue attention. Plus PR pivot for adding minorities is easier than having minorities portrayed in a negative light.

Those issues aren't "current" they have always existed since the conception of our nation.

I don't understand the distinction you make between America and the Black Community?

You're speaking as if there's a separate "African America" island miles away from default "Real American" main land.

 

[BajiBoxer]

That may be true to an extent, but you're missing where the OP is coming from. Detroit is a very diverse area, and yet we only see white people, as humans and androids, in this particular. Unless QD plans to talk about how Detroit in this game was heavily gentrified, then yeah I think it's fair to say that it's disappointing that there is isn't much diversity. Especially in light of how QD's past titles handled characters of other races.

While it's too early to level too many accusations at this game, imo, it is certainly something to keep an eye on. Even if we ignore all the social reasons for more diversity, in 2016 I find overly white casts immersion breaking in many modern settings. Here in the midwest in the subburb of a bigish city, it's still pretty diverse. I have black co-workers both U.S. born and African born, Mexican, Indian, South American, Peurtorican and several white and non-white LGBT coworkers, and pretty diverse customers too. I feel like more people need to take a closer look at their surroundings.

 

[Plinko]

In a topic such as this, you go for the cheap joke that only serves to reinforce a negative stereotype of the city. Good one.

Regarding the topic, I think it's obviously still too soon to say anything definitive either way - other than that if the game is called "Detroit," it would be a huge miss if they don't try to be somewhat accurate in representing the city. From the trailers, it's good to see they've put in some of the work in getting much of Detroit's skyline in the game and that ultimately makes me optimistic they'll actually not be tone dead regarding this issue.

I was born in Detroit and lived there for years, returning to visit frequently. I know what I am talking about.

 

[IronicSonic]

Quantic Dream hired writers for this game.

White writers?

Spoiler

Only half joking

 

[Mit-]

I was born in Detroit and lived there for years, returning to visit frequently. I know what I am talking about.

Except when it comes to the game actually showing plenty of blight in the reveal trailer. Also, it's in the future, why wouldn't the downtown area be cleaned up a bit? It's already going to have far less blight in the not-so-distant future in the downtown/midtown area once Ilitch connects downtown to midtown with his arena district.

And I still live in Detroit, still never seen dumpster fires downtown.

 

[JCX]

Those of you who aren't from the Detroit area or who have never been there - it's absurd how white the trailers are compared to the actual city. It's like the white flight from the postwar period never happened.

If someone made that next medieval dragon game mostly black, the internet would throw a hissy fit about "forced diversity" and "historical inaccuracy", yet turning a mostly black city white is fine?

 

[exmachina64]

...and he also had Cole in Beyond: Two Souls.

Pretty much the opposite of the black character in Heavy Rain. Not to mention the only likable and good person in that game.

I advice to wait before judging.

What's Ben Carson doing in that game?

I think that if Androids became so easily available they would mostly be made white for sale in the US. There's too much racism in the history of the US and I'm pretty positive that no company would make a black Android for sale given the history of African slavery in the US.

Obviously, there's the picture of the black Android, but I could see that being the case in real life.

 

[JCX]

What's Ben Carson doing in that game?

Ben Carson has a school named after him in Detroit since he's from Detroit.