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[cvxfreak]

Segata, it's easier to open a language school in Japan than it is to open a restaurant.

I'm actually a graduate student at a well-respected (because people honestly don't know better) Japanese university studying the lives of various different migrants in Japan. It's impossible to generalize. Just like in all countries, you'll find receptive people and cold people. Japan is by no means a country where everyone hates you. It's nothing like being an American in Iraq or an Israeli in an Arab Middle East nation.

But really, some of this is hardly relevant. If you find your connections and your group, you will have a good time. If you have difficulties or irreconcilable differences, then deal with them accordingly or leave Japan for another place you'll feel more comfortable in.

 

[hiro4]

Damn, I actually ran into you once at 8-4's big shindig, what was it, last year? I don't know why everyone is going on about the hours. I very rarely work over 40 hours / week. Things only get hectic around deliverables and game shows.

Well that sounds promising, can you tell the company where you work?
If I didn't had a steady relation and a kid, I would consider moving to Japan to work in the industry, but now I'm not so sure. Money isn't a problem, a whole new country without family for my SO is.

Also, it gets hectic everywhere around deliverables and game shows.

I enjoyed reading it. But damn, it's basically just one long whine about the entire country.

That was the whole idea.
He did a follow up where he wrote down what he loved about Japan if I remember correctly.

 

[syoaran]

If you want to work in Japan and be happy/sane:

1) Learn Japanese/Save a lot of money
2) Start your own company out there
3) ????
4) Profit

 

[BudokaiMR2]

If you want to work in Japan and be happy/sane:

1) Learn Japanese/Save a lot of money
2) Start your own company out there
3) ????
4) Profit

Dylan and company are living the life!

No they really are. Kyoto is a dope city

 

[DCharlie]

Damn, I actually ran into you once at 8-4's big shindig, what was it, last year

curious - did we meet?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

While I haven't tried any of the JLPT tests, I rank myself around level 2 and 3, this cause I went to Japanese school till the 2nd year of High school (koukou) btw, can you tell us the area where you failed?

What? Ignoring the rest of your post... If you went to school in Japan up until the 2nd year of high school, you are considered a native speaker and should be extremely fluent in the language. There shouldn't be any question of whether or not you can pass the JLPT (which isn't even slightly a challenge for anyone who is relatively fluent in Japanese reading and writing).

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Damn, I actually ran into you once at 8-4's big shindig, what was it, last year? I don't know why everyone is going on about the hours. I very rarely work over 40 hours / week. Things only get hectic around deliverables and game shows.

It obviously depends on the company and the current project. As a trend, though, work hours in Japan suck. With that said, there are a number of companies that actually promote healthy working styles. It's more the exception than the rule, though.

I know game devs like Game Freak, for example, generally operate on decent hours until they reach the end of the development cycle (開発佳&#22659 where most employees pretty much don't go home. Of course they get a multi-week vacation at the end of development, though. Anyway, I'm sure shitty work hours in the game development industry are not exclusive to Japan. I often hear stories of studios in other countries having to work horrific hours.

It's just that Japan is notoriously bad (in pretty much any industry) for having awful working hours and Japanese society as a whole tends to glorify working long hours and staying late.

 

[icecream]

I'm pretty good conversationally and can play through games that have difficult Japanese, like Ryu ga Gotoku and MegaTen. I can understand most of what I'm watching on TV here. I go to movies that are 100% Japanese and can easily follow them. It's not enough for Level 2.

This is one of the problems I have with the JLPT test in general. Sometimes it just doesn't seem to be an accurate enough measure of one's proficiency in the language. I know a few friends who are very similar to this, and sometimes they seem even more experienced than me, yet they've been unable to pass Level 2 or beyond numerous times.

 

[ElFly]

That Tim Rogers article is hilarious. It raises some valid criticism of the japanese industry and its culture in general, but also shows how much of a whinner Rogers is.

I mean, he gets invited to lots of parties, and kills the buzz because he doesn't drink alcohol AND doesn't eat meat AND simply isn't a fun guy to be around?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is one of the problems I have with the JLPT test in general. Sometimes it just doesn't seem to be an accurate enough measure of one's proficiency in the language. I know a few friends who are very similar to this, and sometimes they seem even more experienced than me, yet they've been unable to pass Level 2 or beyond numerous times.

I completely disagree.

If you can't pass JLPT1 then you aren't fluent in Japanese. However, being able to pass JLPT1 doesn't necessarily mean you are near-native level. Obviously Chinese people and older Koreans who know a lot of Kanji-based words have an advantage over people from other countries.

However, all of the words and grammatical structures that appear on the JLPT1 do appear in real life, whether that be in the newspaper, in novels, textbooks, etc... etc... If you really do understand Japanese at a level even close to a native speaker then you will be able to pass the JLPT1 without any trouble. You are kidding yourself if you think you are anywhere near native level and cannot pass JLPT1. However, that doesn't mean you can't operate in a basic conversation and get by just fine living in Japan.

 

[icecream]

I'm... not exactly sure what part of my post you're addressing?

If you can't pass JLPT1 then you aren't fluent in Japanese. However, being able to pass JLPT1 doesn't necessarily mean you are near-native level.

Indeed, your statement is correct. However I was referring to how the test in general doesn't seem to accurately reflect the summation of one's proficiency in the language.

You are kidding yourself if you think you are anywhere near native level and cannot pass JLPT1. However, that doesn't mean you can't operate in a basic conversation and get by just fine living in Japan.

I don't believe I was the one who made such a claim.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Here's a giant editorial written by someone who really loved Japan and went to live and work there for five years and counting: http://kotaku.com/5484581/japan-its-not-funny-anymore

I suggest reading the entire thing and making sure that this is really a place you want to live and work in.

The guy has a fair number of good points, but damn if he doesn't love to exaggerate. There are a couple of spots in the article that are so obviously outright lies, that I really don't see why he posted them when plenty of people are bound to see through his bullshit. It really hurts his overall "opinion" when there are so many blatant lies mixed in with it. That's not to mention the parts of Japanese society that he just doesn't seem to understand (or understands but is unwilling to accept). With that said, a lot of what he wrote is true and resonate with my personal experience working at a huge Japanese corporation in Tokyo.

 

[djtiesto]

Aww duckie, no love for me? Don't be like that just because I don't like your JRPGs

Thats a shame, you're missing out on some excellent games

But in all seriousness, was curious about the localization of Scribblenauts into Japanese. Did you find it a challenging process? Did you translate the in-game dictionary all to Japanese, or did you just leave it in English? I know Segata said that your games bombed in Japan, but I'd honestly expect them to do a bit better than outright failure, since they seem to at least have aesthetics more in line with Japanese tastes than something like COD or Gears of War.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Thats a shame, you're missing out on some excellent games

But in all seriousness, was curious about the localization of Scribblenauts into Japanese. Did you find it a challenging process? Did you translate the in-game dictionary all to Japanese, or did you just leave it in English? I know Segata said that your games bombed in Japan, but I'd honestly expect them to do a bit better than outright failure, since they seem to at least have aesthetics more in line with Japanese tastes than something like COD or Gears of War.

Scribblenauts isn't out here yet. Their three games that have been released are Drawn to Life, Drawn to Life 2, and Lock's Quest. Truth be told, I can only say for sure Lock's bombed. Sofmap's been trying to clear them for months now at a sub-1000 yen price.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Maybe beating your chest about being a game developer like you always do on this forum annoyed them as much as it annoys anyone who isn't a sycophant.

It's an English school. Sorry if I stepped on your massive game developer dick while you were trying to spread bullshit generalizations. You can visit me when you make a game without shitty controls. I'll warm up the tea for half past never, 'son'.

Wow, that was absolutely uncalled for.

 

[Ravidrath]

A friend of mine applied to IREM recently. On their website was a Q&A...

Q: I want to be a programmer. Do I need to know how to program?

A: No, as long as you have a love of programming.​

...This is why the Japanese industry is fucked. :\

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Wow, that was absolutely uncalled for.

I'll totally take it back the minute someone shows me how it's necessary to work in the games industry to comment on the friendliness of a country's populace towards foreigners.

I know it was real jerkish of me to suggest that most Japanese are, in fact, not racist, and are actually quite friendly. I promise, next time I see people making untrue negative generalizations about an entire country, I'll totally jump in on the kicking.

 

[Stinkles]

Not saying you're wrong or anything, but have you lived in Japan and experienced this first hand because I've heard stories of foreigners being treated very well in the industry. That's not to say it isn't brutal but I have a hard time believing this isn't an exaggeration based on misconceptions.

No, it's a common story. I know lots of Western devs who worked in Japan with similar stories and not one with an exception to it.

 

[Stinkles]

Most game companies have people that speak English(Bandai Namco, Konami, KoeiTecmo, Capcom, pretty much any place you know!) and are generally multi-cultural with employees from all around. I have yet to meet an asshole who hates foreigners aka "the big bad xenophobic Japanese nationalist" since working in the industry here.

Other than drunk salarymen, I have never encountered naked racism from an individual. However, as sprsk and Segata are both fully aware, xenophobia and jingoism in Japan happen at a much more insidious, institutional level. Organizations, corporations, clubs and governments are where this enters the vocabulary, as any ethnic Korean who's lived in Japan for two hundred years and isn't a harbor seal can tell you.

You're not going to encounter that racism or xenophobia on vacation or low level job, but it will stymie your chances of say, becoming a CEO, getting your kid into an elite school, ever becoming a citizen, for example.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Other than drunk salarymen, I have never encountered naked racism from an individual. However, as sprsk and Segata are both fully aware, xenophobia and jingoism in Japan happen at a much more insidious, institutional level. Organizations, corporations, clubs and governments are where this enters the vocabulary, as any ethnic Korean who's lived in Japan for two hundred years and isn't a harbor seal can tell you.

You're not going to encounter that racism or xenophobia on vacation or low level job, but it will stymie your chances of say, becoming a CEO, getting your kid into an elite school, ever becoming a citizen, for example.

Right, but I don't think that reflects the wishes of the average Japanese person any more than making a disgusting shitstorm in Iraq reflected the wishes of the average American. Things *are* changing in Japan, however slow it may be, and I think we're going to see major social change with the next generation of Japanese, but in the here and now, yeah, there's definitely institutional xenophobia going on in some aspects of Japanese life. Especially in business sectors, which tend to, in any country, harbour the most disgusting human beings that country has to offer outside of the prisons.

I still completely disagree with anyone who says "everyone in Japan hates foreigners", though. It's a stereotype that has really gone too far in my opinion.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Working in the Japanese Games Industry
An interesting read. Thought the OP might benefit from it somehow.

 

[hiro4]

What? Ignoring the rest of your post... If you went to school in Japan up until the 2nd year of high school, you are considered a native speaker and should be extremely fluent in the language. There shouldn't be any question of whether or not you can pass the JLPT (which isn't even slightly a challenge for anyone who is relatively fluent in Japanese reading and writing).

Well, I didn't go to school in Japan, I went to a Japanese school here in my own country.
And by no means I'm a native speaker, for that I didn't pay enough attention during school hours :lol it wasn't a fulltime school so.

Also it has been more then 10 years ago that I went to school and in that time I only went to visit family 2 or 3 times in Japan. My Japanese is too rusted to complete the JLPT test.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

No, it's a common story. I know lots of Western devs who worked in Japan with similar stories and not one with an exception to it.

Hmmm. I wonder if the exceptions are the companies themselves like Capcom.

 

[Truespeed]

For programming, I recommend starting Java. It's easy to understand but it's not used for console programming (from what I know) but it builds a decent foundation in terms of programming. You could go learning Java to C or straight to C.

If you need help regarding programming basics, I could definitely help you. You could send me a PM.

Also, try checking tri-Ace (developers of Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, End of Eternity): http://www.tri-ace.co.jp/en/recruit/top.html
Their offer is pretty good too actually.

I agree, Java is easy. Being good in Java is hard.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

I don't have much to add to KuroNeeko's excellent post but I will say that JLPT Level 2 is really hard. I have Level 3 and I've tried the Level 2 a few times without much luck. I'm pretty good conversationally and can play through games that have difficult Japanese, like Ryu ga Gotoku and MegaTen. I can understand most of what I'm watching on TV here. I go to movies that are 100% Japanese and can easily follow them. It's not enough for Level 2.

I don't want to piss on the parade, cuz plenty of people are already doing that needlessly, but if you need Level 2 JLPT to get a job (and probably you will need it for what you want to do), you have to study like you've never studied in your life.

I never understand posts like this, sometimes I think people might be overestimating their ability/ what they are/are not understanding.

I passed JLPT 1, I can generally fly through most non-fiction books in Japanese that are in a subject I have some background in(or are aimed at the general public) with only having to look up odd idoims and the like(I've tried reading books about Japanese religious values aimed at people with a philosophy background, that was a whammy).


But my lord outsides of games that are meant for middle schoolers, I'll be blundered if I can understand them completely, they are just so full of slang and grammar distortions/ slurring.

When people make statements like this, does it mean they can just blunder through the game, somehow reach the end and get a feeling like they understood stuff?

also not to damper spirits but, As to JLPT2 there is nothing on it at all that is obscure, not passing it, basically means you are illiterate, which puts you at rather big disadvantage to any job requiring reading and writing.

____

Finally to answer the original topic:

if you have a lot of skills/talent/experience. I know of a few fairly well known companies that require no Japanese, and they will pay for your Japanese training. This requires you to have worked on AA-AAA titles though.

 

[dofry]

There is also the possibility to go as an exchange student, or a visiting researcher if you are willing to study more. Do you have Masters? BA? Relatively easy to get scholarships, and it's a good way to experience Japan.
Nice country, friendly people and good food.

 

[IlliterateBookworm]

I don't know if a research visa will give him enough time though- I know my brother's finishing up a bunch of his research for his dissertation and he wasn't there for very long. Plus most schools expect to see some actual legitimate reason for you going abroad as well as some significant results.

Interesting stuff though. Makes me wish I'd kept up with my language abilities. I never got past level 2 but I took the test at the time for the hell of it just to see how badly I'd do. It's both sad and pleasing that my kids have pretty much surpassed me conversationally.

Maybe I'll send one of them to work in the game industry...

 

[robor]

Sorry to bump this but, what if you're looking to do sound design and/or compostion/music in Japan? Are the conditions altered somewhat?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I never understand posts like this, sometimes I think people might be overestimating their ability/ what they are/are not understanding.

I passed JLPT 1, I can generally fly through most non-fiction books in Japanese that are in a subject I have some background in(or are aimed at the general public) with only having to look up odd idoims and the like(I've tried reading books about Japanese religious values aimed at people with a philosophy background, that was a whammy).


But my lord outsides of games that are meant for middle schoolers, I'll be blundered if I can understand them completely, they are just so full of slang and grammar distortions/ slurring.

When people make statements like this, does it mean they can just blunder through the game, somehow reach the end and get a feeling like they understood stuff?

also not to damper spirits but, As to JLPT2 there is nothing on it at all that is obscure, not passing it, basically means you are illiterate, which puts you at rather big disadvantage to any job requiring reading and writing.

Same way some people are good at trig but terrible at calculus? I don't know, man. Most of my Japanese "study" has been from absorbing the language from the sources around me, with very little in the way of formal textbook learning aside from the laughable three-year university course back in Canada. I get by a lot better with informal Japanese than I do with correct Japanese, I suppose, and on the JLPT, you have to use "correct Japanese". I'm certainly not the only foreigner I know who can operate just fine in daily life, have fairly in-depth conversations in Japanese, and read manga/games and watch movies but can't get past the JLPT2.

Is it really that odd, though? I'd bet a majority of North Americans for whom English is their first language would fail a formal English test, yet I wouldn't call them illiterate.

Anyway, for this guy, he says he only has basic Japanese, and unless you're Doogie Howser or something, I doubt very much you pulled yourself up from basic Japanese to JLPT2 level in a few months. Giving him false hope by fronting that the JLPT2 is super-easy isn't going to be helpful at all.

 

[Johann]

Outside of the obvious job you're going for (Programmer, artist etc)
Obviously speaking Japanese is the main advantage. But what if you know minimal Japanese?
I'm just curious because at some point in my career I would love to work for a few years in Japan (as well as Canada for example)

Some Japanese companies hire foreigners to model their characters after. One of my highschool classmates is a DJ in Japan and she worked with Sony Japan's modelers on a game. Fluent Japanese isn't a requirement. However, being in good shape and being physically attractive is a big plus.

There also some Japan-based English dubbing companies that do dubs on site with developer supervision. The results aren't pretty.

 

[Kilrogg]

I don't have much to add to KuroNeeko's excellent post but I will say that JLPT Level 2 is really hard. I have Level 3 and I've tried the Level 2 a few times without much luck. I'm pretty good conversationally and can play through games that have difficult Japanese, like Ryu ga Gotoku and MegaTen. I can understand most of what I'm watching on TV here. I go to movies that are 100% Japanese and can easily follow them. It's not enough for Level 2.

I don't want to piss on the parade, cuz plenty of people are already doing that needlessly, but if you need Level 2 JLPT to get a job (and probably you will need it for what you want to do), you have to study like you've never studied in your life.

What about kanji, books and newspapers? If, as you say, you have been living in Japan for 3 years and can easily understand movies, I'm sure it's just that you didn't choose the right method before taking the exam. Unlike you, I haven't lived in Japan (yet), can't follow movies easily, and lack spontaneity and fluency of speech big time, yet I was able to pass level 2 with a 20% margin. Granted, I had to work on my kanji, vocabulary and listening comprehension to get there, but preparation took me 3 to 6 months (memory's a bit blurry) from the moment I bought my first JLPT2 book to the actual test. FYI I'm still slow when it comes to reading (the reading comprehension part in the test was hell, couldn't even finish it).

I'm sure JLPT2 isn't out of your league, Segata. You've most likely got the listening part covered, so that 1/4 of the work. I take it you know enough vocabulary too. Depending on your skills, grammar, kanji and/or reading will be the tricky parts. I suggest you buy some books (I can give you some references if you're interested), start working and ask your Japanese friend for help. Maybe it's just that you're not a student like me and don't have enough time. I could understand that.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

You have to be a budding young game designer. Isn't that the consensus?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

What about kanji, books and newspapers? If, as you say, you have been living in Japan for 3 years and can easily understand movies, I'm sure it's just that you didn't choose the right method before taking the exam. Unlike you, I haven't lived in Japan (yet), can't follow movies easily, and lack spontaneity and fluency of speech big time, yet I was able to pass level 2 with a 20% margin. Granted, I had to work on my kanji, vocabulary and listening comprehension to get there, but preparation took me 3 to 6 months (memory's a bit blurry) from the moment I bought my first JLPT2 book to the actual test. FYI I'm still slow when it comes to reading (the reading comprehension part in the test was hell, couldn't even finish it).

I'm sure JLPT2 isn't out of your league, Segata. You've most likely got the listening part covered, so that 1/4 of the work. I take it you know enough vocabulary too. Depending on your skills, grammar, kanji and/or reading will be the tricky parts. I suggest you buy some books (I can give you some references if you're interested), start working and ask your Japanese friend for help. Maybe it's just that you're not a student like me and don't have enough time. I could understand that.

Maybe I could pass it now, I don't know. It's not a priority anymore, I have no use for the piece of paper.

 

[KTallguy]

Is it really that odd, though? I'd bet a majority of North Americans for whom English is their first language would fail a formal English test, yet I wouldn't call them illiterate.

You might call them uneducated?

In my opinion JLPT is really about how much you can cram into your head, not how much you know the language. Of course when you get to level 1 and 2, you should have a decent understanding of grammar and basics, but the majority of the JLPT level 1 specific vocabulary and grammar is almost never used, and my Japanese co-workers are all educated, university graduates. Speaking from my personal experience, anyway. I guess it depends on your field.

Keigo, on the other hand, is very important and should be focused on more.
Knowing the right way to ask a question, and in what context to use certain words, will go a long, long way to making you sound fluent.

There are just so many people that can pass the JLPT level 2 and 1 but can't really communicate in the language (although maybe they can read and understand well enough), so if the goal of the test is to check Japanese fluency, it's a half failure.