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[StereoVsn]

The fact is that OLED has motion interpolation for 24fps film that makes film watchable (and no I am not talking about soap opera effect) so that's a non-issue.

You are correct in that OLED is just plain awful for 30 fps games. Just awful. YoU CAN use motion interpolation, but it introduces so many artifacts and input lag.

Ironically that's basically what frame generation is. Motion Interpolation at the GPU level.

Yep, I can’t deal with 30 FPS games on OLED either. I have a 42” LG OLED as a PC monitor and it’s fine for PC games since I can control the frame rate. But when hooking up my PS5 or Switch to it, I nope out.

Frankly it’s ridiculous in 2024 not to have an option for 60fps or hell even 40fps would be a a lot more palatable.

 

[Damigos]

no

 

[TGO]

A long as it's stable that's all that matters

 

[CGNoire]

what gives?

Clicks!

 

[Darkness_Arises]

Very interesting considering the staunch support of exactly the opposite over the last few years, what gives?

DF are the most disingenuous wankers around when it comes to the console wars. They love putting on the cloak of impartiality when anybody with an iota of sense knows they are batting for the green team. It's been almost 4 years since these systems have released and they are yet to come to terms with the fact that their precious SX handily loses in some head to heads to the PS5. Whenever this happens they are quick to trot out the excuses like tools, dev optimization, etc. When the situation is flipped, SX wins and all is sunshine and rainbows in Rich's deluded fanboy brain. I still remember the pre-release hitpiece put out by them stating that PS5 games have a focus on 30 fps, while Series games are developed for 60 fps and beyond. The irony is that thus far, there is not a single first party PS5 game without a 60 fps mode, whereas some Xbox FP titles are already 30 fps only.

 

[Darkkahn]

Now that the Pro is around the corner? No.

 

[rofif]

It doesn't even look that good outside of these downsampled screenshots, let's be real here. Hell, DMC special edition and RE4 are way batter looking and run at 2-3 times the franerate of DD2

Downsampled? This is on ps5. These are regular screenshots.
More so, these are hdr to sdr converted and low quality. Not png

 

[Zathalus]

I can see 30fps being a thing if you decide to really push the CPU or really focus on graphics.

It also depends on the genre, I can stomach 30fps in BG3 but a shooter better be 60fps.

 

[Umbral]

Each and every one of you that says ”yes’ is going on my ignore list.

 

[rofif]

Each and every one of you that says ”yes’ is going on my ignore list.

You fake gamer

 

[midnightAI]

I do hope that many of you realise that (depending on developer) many games are designed around 30fps and then stuff is cut back to get a 60fps mode (such as shadow quality, LOD, foliage density, resolution etc.). And I'm not saying 60fps is an afterthought, but there is very little that couldn't be cut back to get the game running at 60 so that it affects game design.

(It's certainly something that Playstation are pushing hard, that's why practically every PS5 game has 30 and 60 FPS modes, developers are used to doing this for years due to PC development which has to run on a variety of specs.)

 

[ToneyJ]

If you can’t get your game to run at 60fps, your priorities as a game maker are out of control wack. Games look good enough fidelity wise and performance shouldn’t be sacrificed

 

[Duchess]

I can't go back to 30fps. For years, I argued that 30fps for fine. Now I've experienced so many titles at 60fps on PS5, I just find 30fps too choppy.

 

[Duchess]

If you can’t get your game to run at 60fps, your priorities as a game maker are out of control wack. Games look good enough fidelity wise and performance shouldn’t be sacrificed

I still find it really weird that the developers of Pacific Drive opted for 4K 30 on PS5.

Why not also offer 1080p 60fps?!

 

[Shut0wen]

Seriously console warriors on here are expecting way to much, you fuckers would buy a pile of shit if its 60fps, cant wait until you kojima worshipers start defending death stradning 2 for not having 60fps lmao, 30fps is fine IF its stable, its when it starts having slight drops is when it becomes questionable though i would say alot of developers can do alot to get games at 60fps without graphics taken that much of a hit but ya some companys are incapable

 

[panda-zebra]

Seriously console warriors on here are expecting way to much, you fuckers would buy a pile of shit if its 60fps, cant wait until you kojima worshipers start defending death stradning 2 for not having 60fps lmao, 30fps is fine IF its stable, its when it starts having slight drops is when it becomes questionable though i would say alot of developers can do alot to get games at 60fps without graphics taken that much of a hit but ya some companys are incapable

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Yep, I can’t deal with 30 FPS games on OLED either. I have a 42” LG OLED as a PC monitor and it’s fine for PC games since I can control the frame rate. But when hooking up my PS5 or Switch to it, I nope out.

Frankly it’s ridiculous in 2024 not to have an option for 60fps or hell even 40fps would be a a lot more palatable.

Well said Bro. 30fps on OLED is complete garbage.

 

[Clear]

That's because this is a forum with different takes from different people. Your post is a great example that someone can pretty much contrive anything "gaf" said out of thin air whenever they want.

His statement is generally correct though.

There were a great many complaints by many posters throughout the cross-gen period that devs weren't doing enough visually beyond adding 60fps (and higher) modes. Now that time has passed the most common gripes have become about resolution and frame-rate costs when utilizing "current gen" features and tech.

An entirely predictable turn of events, but quite an aggravating one. Especially when the obvious, factual, reality is ignored by those calling any game that doesn't run and look like a cross-gen title "unoptimized" or "isn't making the best use of the hardware"!

The reality has always been that to get the best out of any hardware, you need time and experience across multiple projects on it. Now dev time-scales are so lengthy this happens relatively infrequently; if your cycle is 3-4 years then by the time the 2nd try hits the shelves the gen is basically overI

If you consider this situation has been largely true since the last gen, then you should understand why those cross-gen titles seemed relatively more polished and "optimized", and why these first attempts at harnessing current-gen power seem less impressive.

Again, its all super obvious stuff, but still the complaints come as if there was ever going to be a different outcome.

 

[Hudo]

I mean, if you really have a problem with 30fps then don't buy a console.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Lol as a PC gamer I'd rather tinker with the settings than settle with 30fps. Ray trace my ass.

 

[angelgs90]

As long as they offer an uncapped framerate option to achieve higher framerates with future hardware, I don't really see a problem.

 

[TVexperto]

Do we really need a thread for every clip from their podcast? Just have an OT for their Podcast

 

[Bernardougf]

 

[Darkness_Arises]

Lol as a PC gamer I'd rather tinker with the settings than settle with 30fps. Ray trace my ass.

I absolutely do not get the point of opting for RT features (shadow, reflection, GI) at the expense of framerate. I will happily forgo these if it results in a solid 60. I do not deny that objectively the RT features enhance the look of a game. However these things that DF point out like accurate reflections, accurate light bounce, accurate shadows are not what makes a game pretty or beautiful to me. Metro Exodus is plain to look at and no amount of RT is gonna change that, HFW though just looks exquisite inspite of the lack of GI. I only have a PS4 and that game looks great even though the DF crew could do a whole segment on missing reflections, inaccurate shadows and other inconsistencies. Another example, Monster Hunter World looks objectively better than MH Rise. However, I am currently playing through the series on my Deck and enjoying Rise a lot more. This is because MHW is not a graphical tour de force and MHR looks good enough while running at a flawless 60 fps on the Steam Deck.

 

[darrylgorn]

I mean, it's the easiest way to limit your market and kill sales, so yeah, make every game 30 fps on consoles.

 

[Thyuda]

No one in their right mind would chose image quality over smooth gameplay.

I run this experiment with my non technical wife every time we get a new game, I show her the modes without telling her what they do, and she choses the 60fps mode every single time over image quality.

So fuck no, we should not "accept" more 30fps titles, what a stupid question. At the very least give us the option.

 

[Bernardougf]

I'll never understand "state of the art graphics" and 30 fps being put it on the same sentence.... for me they are antagonists since fps is part of the graphics experience.

You cant have state of the art at 30 fps for games anymore ... imho....not in 2024... sorry.

Playing Robocop right now... everytime the game deeps it turns into a shit experience... god knows how you people can play this way all the time anymore.

 

[Quixz]

30 FPS is bad and I don't understand why some of you defend it.

I would rather have a game look a bit worse to achieve 60FPS+ and If the game is CPU bound then maybe the developers need change the engine or something...

 

[Topher]

His statement is generally correct though.

No, his statement serves his narrative by referencing a bunch of people and quoting none of them. I'm not going to argue points straight out of the ether about what some nameless "posters" may or may not have said.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

DF wouldn’t be entertaining this question if it was Sony's 1st party games that had a trend of releasing without 60fps option and not the other way around.

Specially considering they were the ones pushiness for 60fps in gaming in general.

Now they are making videos even asking this question.

 

[Topher]

I mean, if you really have a problem with 30fps then don't buy a console.

In other words, console gamers should just shut up and accept whatever they are given.

 

[kaizenkko]

For me all the point is: if games like Horizon Forbidden West and Stellar Blade can reach magnificent graphis and 60fps options, why third-party games can't? I don't believe that only Sony have the ability to use their hardware propely.

 

[King Dazzar]

I'm 60fps only and doing just fine with console games. I vote with my wallet. If game is 30fps only, or its 60fps mode is awful, I simply dont buy it. I have just under 50 games installed on my PS5. So that strategy is working fine. And with the PS5Pro just around the corner, I believe my expectations will continue to be catered for. Thankfully many studios recognise gamers wanting decent 60fps experiences.

That said. I don't mind some games coming out 30fps only and others enjoying them. I just simply dont buy them though.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

We are in the year 2024. It's time to dream bigger.

Also, can people stuff those "my favorite game from x years ago ran at 30 and everyone loved it. “ post up their ass.

People used to love black and white films too, but we still moved on to color...

 

[makaveli60]

Yes! I’m tired of having mostly lastgen games in higher res/fps almost 3,5 years after this gen’s start. Where’s the jump? The jump was obvious with the previous gen by 2014/2015 with games like Infamous Second Son, AC Unity, The Order 1886. All those were designed around a 30 fps target on consoles. They were only possible in their actual form because of this decision. Can anyone even imagine a 60 fps AC Unity on those consoles? Sure you could go lower with the resolution, lower the character detail, remove the crowds, but why even bother at that point with depicting the French Revolution? You could have that game on ps 3 then. I don’t understand how so many can’t get this

 

[Giallo Corsa]

We are in the year 2024. It's time to dream bigger.

Also, can people stuff those "my favorite game from x years ago ran at 30 and everyone loved it. “ post up their ass.

People used to love black and white films too, but we still moved on to color...

But...but..."i UseD To PlAy OcarInA oF TiMe aT 22FPS aNd i hAD a BLaST !11!"

I mean, before electricity people used to lit candles for lighting, before cars we had the horse + wagon combo etc etc etc, i too don't get the comparison with 20+ year old games that used to run like shit - and i'm old enough to have played many games at a shit-tastic framerate, apparently though, i'm to be considered a "fake gamer®" or a °graphics whore®" nowadays 'cause my standards have been raised, it really boggles the mind...

Just like King Dazzar said (and also due to me having an OLED), if a game doesn't have a 60fps option it's a no-go for me - the recently released Dragon's Dogma 2 is one of those games for example, shit, pages upon pages of people shitting on its performance, what Capcom should or shouldn't have done etc etc...Why even bother ? i can just pass on it, especially with the upcoming PS5 Pro release AND the fact that Capcom always does "Gold" editions a couple of months down the line with lots of QoF improvements/extras, it really is as simple as that.

Games like Stellar Blade though ? Game looks super nice AND runs beautifully at 60fps (or "balanced mode" if you have a VRR capable TV), i know where my money is going (and it's not DD2).

 

[Schmendrick]

Go full 30fps on console and push the visuals as high as they can go....I´ll enjoy the games at 60fps plus on PC then

 

[Hugare]

Obligatory reminder that 90% of the best games of all time were released at 30 FPS (maybe lower) on their original hardware and wouldn't be possible at 60

And this is still true to this day

We are in the year 2024. It's time to dream bigger.

Also, can people stuff those "my favorite game from x years ago ran at 30 and everyone loved it. “ post up their ass.

People used to love black and white films too, but we still moved on to color...

What a fucking terrible analogy

A better one would be: in order to have state of the art CGI, movies would have to run at 24 FPS. Or you could have Spy Kids level of CGI at 48 FPS.

"Oh but Horizon FW is one of the best looking games and it runs at 60". Sure, and all I can think of is how amazing it could look then running at 30/1440p.

If you want higher FPS, buy a PC. Its been that way for decades for a reason.

 

[keefged4]

With correct frame pacing and motion blur and on console, yes. As previously stated, the true version will then remain on PC at 60fps+ anyway. No need to stifle image quality to cater for underpowered consoles in order for them to hit 60.

 

[Topher]

Obligatory reminder that 90% of the best games of all time were released at 30 FPS (maybe lower) on their original hardware and wouldn't be possible at 60

And this is still true to this day

How is that "still true to this day" when the vast majority of games this gen have been released with performance modes?

 

[Hudo]

In other words, console gamers should just shut up and accept whatever they are given.

Don't worry, the PS5 Pro will fix everything!

 

[jroc74]

I'd say leave in there for the folks that prefer to see the high resolutions. Options are good. But folks are going to have to explain to me why having a 60fps option for consoles is so incredibly difficult for devs. It is literally a matter of changing some settings in the game to get close to 60fps and then saving off that as a preset. Boom......performance mode.

If I can get my old RX 580 PC running Cyberpunk 2077 running at 4k and averaging about 45 fps (with low settings, ultra performance FSR, etc.) in around ten minutes then how in the world is a performance mode in these much more powerful consoles such a horribly difficult thing? I'm calling bullshit on that nonsense.

It's a weird situation where some want eyeball melting graphics, and at the same time shit on Spider-Man 2 graphics, but it's a current gen only game that has a performance mode.

It's a game that conveniently gets left out of this debate.

 

[King Dazzar]

Obligatory reminder that 90% of the best games of all time were released at 30 FPS (maybe lower) on their original hardware and wouldn't be possible at 60

And this is still true to this day


What a fucking terrible analogy

A better one would be: in order to have state of the art CGI, movies would have to run at 24 FPS. Or you could have Spy Kids level of CGI at 48 FPS.

"Oh but Horizon FW is one of the best looking games and it runs at 60". Sure, and all I can think of is how amazing it could look then running at 30/1440p.

If you want higher FPS, buy a PC. Its been that way for decades for a reason.

My way or the highway isn't going to make many gamers happy though. Thankfully, we have a thing in modern day gaming called options!! Imagine that. You can be happy at 30fps and I can be happy at 60fps. This is the key issue I have in the 30fps argument. "My opinion is the only one and you all need to conform or fuck off and buy a PC!?!" Not excatly the most reasonable stance. Thankfully many of the studios know that many gamers want 60fps and they work to provide it. Whilst providing 30fps modes too.

 

[Hugare]

My way or the highway isn't going to make many gamers happy though. Thankfully, we have a thing in modern day gaming called options!! Imagine that. You can be happy at 30fps and I can be happy at 60fps. This is the key issue I have in the 30fps argument. "My opinion is the only one and you all need to conform or fuck off and buy a PC!?!" Not excatly the most reasonable stance. Thankfully many of the studios know that many gamers want 60fps and they work to provide it. Whilst providing 30fps modes too.

Designing a game for it to run at 60 is not like designing a game to run at 30.

As I said before, many of the best games of all time didnt have a 60 fps option. And the reason is obvious: they could barely run at 30. Downgrading resolution, effects and etc. wouldnt be enough.

How is that "still true to this day" when the vast majority of games this gen have been released with performance modes?

'Cause I wouldnt call any of them as one of the bests of all time

Correcting myself: Baldurs Gate 3. But thats far from a stable 60.

Another one regarded as one of the best, TotK, barely runs at 30

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Just gonna leave this here:

30fps is often a design decision. If it bothers people that much, just buy a PC.

Alan Wake 2 Was Built as a 30 FPS Experience, but It Will Still Come With Performance Mode on Consoles

Alan Wake 2 was built from the beginning as a 30 FPS experience focusing on visuals, but will still come with a Performance Mode on consoles

www.wccftech.com

 

[King Dazzar]

Designing a game for it to run at 60 is not like designing a game to run at 30.

As I said before, many of the best games of all time didnt have a 60 fps option. And the reason is obvious: they could barely run at 30. Downgrading resolution, effects and etc. wouldnt be enough.



'Cause I wouldnt call any of them as one of the bests of all time

Correcting myself: Baldurs Gate 3. But thats far from a stable 60.

Another one regarded as one of the best, TotK, barely runs at 30

Yeah the problem I have with that, is none of the games I've seen running at only 30fps. Look so amazing in what they are doing, compared to other titles running at 60fps. And if a 30fps only game on console, also brings top tier PC hardware to its knees, then the constraint in my mind is software development side and not console hardware causing lack of scalable flexibility.

My point is, when you get well made games, I usually find they scale across all hardware well. Be it Switch, Series S, through to high end PC hardware. So I dont see why they cant be scaled to both 30fps and 60fps options - many games seem to echo that.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll see many more games at both 30fps and 60fps. So we'll both be fed well.

Just gonna leave this here:

30fps is often a design decision. If it bothers people that much, just buy a PC.

Alan Wake 2 Was Built as a 30 FPS Experience, but It Will Still Come With Performance Mode on Consoles

Alan Wake 2 was built from the beginning as a 30 FPS experience focusing on visuals, but will still come with a Performance Mode on consoles

www.wccftech.com

Or dont buy the game.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Or dont buy the game.

THat's an option too, but you're just like a drop in an ocean. Insignificant.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

As I said before, many of the best games of all time didnt have a 60 fps option.

This is bullshit. Many of the best games and best-selling games do in fact run at 60fps. Outside of the obvious Ocarinas of times most of the classics ran at 60fps.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'd say leave in there for the folks that prefer to see the high resolutions. Options are good. But folks are going to have to explain to me why having a 60fps option for consoles is so incredibly difficult for devs. It is literally a matter of changing some settings in the game to get close to 60fps and then saving off that as a preset. Boom......performance mode.

If I can get my old RX 580 PC running Cyberpunk 2077 running at 4k and averaging about 45 fps (with low settings, ultra performance FSR, etc.) in around ten minutes then how in the world is a performance mode in these much more powerful consoles such a horribly difficult thing? I'm calling bullshit on that nonsense.

Correct. People act like these consoles are much weaker than they are. A 3700X is not remotely close to top of the line, but it is still a quite capable CPU. Not to mention, the code to the metal option still exists.

Would I love a 7800X3D CPU equivalent in the PS5 Pro? Of course, but that's not going to happen.

 

[Katatonic]

After Stellar Blade's different graphics modes, the new standard should be 3 settings:
Performance
Balanced
Quality