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[Digital Foundry] Batman Arkham City PS4 Pro: What If Every Game Got A Pro Upgrade?
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
LukasTaves
Member
Scorpio won't auto make all games run at 4k, it will run at xbone settings, in many cases they will keep the original resolution even if it's below 1080p, but unlike the pro which is crippled at a system level when running non patched games, xbone games on scorpio will have access to the extra hardware and will run better. If the game was designed in a way that takes advantage of the extra power (unlocked framerate or dynamic res) the game will benefit more, but in the very least I don't think we will see any slowdown, specially if they go with zen.
I'll agree it's likely but we still don't actually know this for sure and it's foolish for people to discuss it like it's an absolute certainty
UserDoesNotExist
Member
You're right that he was wrong, but only because marketing bullshit guys like Cerny make a career out of choosing their words to imply one thing (that sounds impressive) while being able to fall back on the truth (much less impressive) if they're called out on it.
People leave the article remembering the former, while fanboys can scream THAT'S NOT WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID OMG SMH when reality hits and the Black Miracle Box that we were promised, isn't.
LukasTaves
Member
From a purely resolution perspective yes, but I'm more interested in higher/locked framerates.
Many games have some nasty slowdowns even after a patch, some like Just Cause 3 was just left abandoned with crappy performance on both consoles, it's a game that probably won't be patched again, but there's a chance it will run better on newer xboxes.
Being able to revisit those games with a framerate boost is a huge advantage, one that we are already seeing when using BC on xbone for instance, even in games that used to run terribly on 360.
tell me more about your valentines day dinner at TGI fridays tho.
Nah, Mascalzone bruh.
And have you never had that happen? It's common if you order the specials at a restaurant.
TBH, I got the S mostly for the Dual Voltage. I've flown my UK Xbox One (which got stolen) to Tokyo like 3-4 times. I had to use a transformer which once got so hot it melted paint, another time I got a third party power supply which fucking DIED on me, and when I tried to buy an official one back then it was either unavailable or too expensive.
Nothing should ever not be dual voltage if it can be. FFS
lukeskymac
Member
No.
In what universe does 4TFLOPs over 2 GPUs sound more impressive than over 1?
Spiral Insanity
Banned
So Cerny is a marketing bullshit guy now? Get wrecked dude.
I love how "scorpio will run old games with improvements without patches" gets thrown around like its a confirmed fact.
I agree this is more likely with Microsoft than with Sony but can we at least wait until we actually have more info about Scorpio before just running with it?
I agree this is more likely with Microsoft than with Sony but can we at least wait until we actually have more info about Scorpio before just running with it?
Sony is responsible for all ps4 games?
Diablohead
Member
return to arkham should not require the pro to run better, those games ran at 60 on my core2duo 2.8 and a gtx 260 768mb back in the day, the collection is just really shoddy port / remake work.
Liabe Brave
Member
You do not know this. Some games, even ones with variable framerate, do not play any better on One S. In addition, Scorpio seems set to be pretty different from the base hardware, which is exactly the sort of thing that usually requires a patch (and indeed, we've gotten a rumor implying patches will be necessary). Until we get explicit info, we don't know one way or the other.
Except here's the quote from Cerny:
He is very, very clearly talking about a single GPU there, using the definite article and phrases like "half [of]", not "one [of]". There's no implication of two GPUs at all. That you think it's console warring to correct someone's faulty memory says more about you than about Sony's publicity.Mark Cerny said:
Yes, but those are all patched. They don't get performance advantages for free, as shown by the BC games that still run just the same. (And don't a few have new problems as well?)
I apologize if my numbers were incorrect; I was recalling figures from the top of my head. That said, I right there were 6 fps improvements in 30 fps targeted games? Either way, I believe there is more merit to the upclock than comparing variable frame rates.
In Rise of Tomb Raider, areas that cause momentary dips in framerate are completely smooth on the S. This may account for a microscopic increase in overall framerate, but the lack of stuttering can be blatantly noticeable.
Basically, quantitative differences aren't the only differences, and qualitative improvements shouldn't be left out of the conversation.
family_guy
Member
I just wonder if this is temporary or if Sony will use this same method for compatibility on the PS5.
LukasTaves
Member
I know all games will see the extra hardware even without a patch. Of course, it doesn't mean every game will benefit, but given the possibility of the CPU being upgraded as well a locked framerate across the board is very likely.
They are not, they are even published by Ms that doesn't even have access to the original source code. Yeah, the games are tested to hell and back but the principle is about the same, the games are running better simply because the more powerful hardware removed some of the bottlenecks from the old console.
BC on xbone, save for the few games that haven't been updated to the newer version are essentially locked framerate with vsync on at all times.
Well, it's kinda confirmed when Phil himself said that, unlike on the pro, games won't have to be patched to have access to the extra resources.
His caveat was that just because games have access to the new hardware it doesn't mean they will all render at 4k natively, and to the extent they will be improved will also vary game from game. But with the gpu jump, and the likely CPU jump too, I think it's very reasonable to expect all games being locked framerate wise.
Source please?
Coolbgdog12
Member
I'm not understand what people are talking about. The game has pro support, albeit bare bones. This isn't a game that isn't unpatched that just works. It had to be supported.
vague MS unofficial PR about UWP games not requiring patches got completely blown into no XB1 game needing patches... people forgot that UWP games are few and have big performance issues right now.
Yeah, if we were still in the 90s then I wouldn't be surprised.
Games run fine on XB1S, which is why I think you'd have to either try real hard to have your game broken by higher clockspeeds or that it's flatout impossible. If this was somehow different on Sony's console, because of a more low-level access, then I think that's a mistake on their part. Granted, they have only given the GPU a boost in the new Xbox, but another case for a seemingly unaffected library despite CPU overclocks is Sony's own PSP (or even the Vita), so I struggle to think why it would be any different for the PS4.
They would get performance advantages for free if the hardware they run on would be upgraded. Right now, since the games have to be converted for Xbone, performance improvements for these titles probably stem from improving that process or w/e and that is why they have to be patched.
dancrane212
Member
he's still not flat out confirming that all older games will have access to the hardware without a patch. I know I'm being pedantic about this but that was my original point. I agree it seems likely to happen but it is absolutely not confirmed at this point
Liabe Brave
Member
No, that's not right. The only improvement to hit that range was in the 60fps-targeted Project Cars. Cockpit mode saw 4fps improvement, and chase cam saw 6fps. The highest improvement for a 30fps-targeted game was 2fps, for Rise of the Tomb Raider.
If games have to be "updated to the newer version", then they're not getting benefits without a patch.
Since they're getting tested and patched due to BC, how can you say what "would" happen if they weren't so patched?
Even in the non-BC world, improvements on S aren't guaranteed. Digital Foundry's test of Fallout 4 showed S with the same average framerate as on original Xbox One, but sometimes dropping in different places. That does not sound like performance improvements are entirely free. (Which may be why Phil Spencer has said on Scorpio that devs will "kind of get it for free".)
But going back to the point of the article, there are a variety of games that benefit from a minor system-level upclock. Wouldn't it be nice if Sony allowed their improved system to optionally run at improved specs at its user's command?
You want a real answer?
All of them, including the BC games.
Does the red text look 3D to anyone else?
I said noticeable
I mean, why do you have to bring in list wars for this? Xbox One S is mentioned because it shows precedent for what people were hoping with Pro. Not to say it's a better machine or anything.
If the Pro let you run all the base games with the improvements, you'd see the same amount of improvements, and some would be really lovely.
Because I want to know the ratio of games that got a noticeable performance boost with the Xbox One S vs how many games are getting PS4 Pro enhancements.
If they are pushing for every PS4 game to get a boost on PS4 Pro like what is happening on Xbox One S we should at least know how much more games is actually getting a noticeable boost with Xbox One S vs the games getting PS4 Pro enhancements.
Because it's unlikely for them to 'lock' resources for BC games when they don't for normal games. So the games would profit from additional horse power just like other titles.
Of course improvements are not guaranteed. It's just a slight bump to GPU clockspeed. If a game wasn't GPU bound to begin with, there might not be a difference in performance at all on the XB1S.
Liabe Brave
Member
Of course! As an individual consumer I'd always like more choice. But for Sony, I can easily see it not making sense. One of the attractions of the console concept is that "it just works". Every time they throw in another user-controlled setting--especially one that might not work at all--they eliminate another segment of their potential user base.
This is not true. Some games give no improvement, including BC games.
But pretty much every game will be GPU bound in some scenarios. So if S always runs better in those situations, and never worse in the CPU bound ones, it should improve every game (though some by very little). But in fact it doesn't improve every game.
Interficium
Banned
Your username is a perfect match for your ultimate fate here on NeoGaf with these kind of hot takes.
Does anyone have a estimated number of games that show noticeable improvements on Xbox One S?
I keep seeing Project Cars being brought up for up to 6 or 7 fps boost but I'm sure if there was much more to talk about someone would have a list of the games that are showing big improvements.
Like if Project Cars was to receive a PS4 Pro patch in the next few months would there be anything left to talk about?
LukasTaves
Member
I posted a few posts back. Phil Said the extra power of scorpio will be available to games without the need of a patch, which is the big reason why ps4 pro games don't run any better unless there's a pro patch.
Yep. Terrible cash grab.
LukasTaves
Member
The newest version of the emulator. Because of how xbone games works every game is shipped with their own game os, which for Bc it also means the emulator. Some games weren't updated to the newest version, but pretty much everything now runs much better than on 360.
LukasTaves
Member
It's not about how big the improvement is, it's about the fact every game sees the new hardware.
For the S which is a slight bump the performance is close, but for scorpio and the other Xboxes that will come later the harware gap will be bigger and so will the performance increase.
2blackcats
Member
Really? That's great news.
What % of 360 games are supported now?
OT, how much does it cost to get a patch certified for Pro?
He was talking about games with dynamic resolution staying 1080p more & games that are suppose to be 30 or 60 fps actually staying 30 or 60 fps more.
how many games are going to benefit from that is still a question.
Dynamic rendering is going to be a big thing going forward so that the games will be more scalable.
If the game isn't patched to go over 900P/1080P or 30fps/60fps it's not going to do much on Scorpio that it's not built to do on Xbox One & One S. did you ignore the part when Phil said that if the devs wanted the games to be 4K they could go back & patch it?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Handful of games with adaptive resolutions benefit = All of them.
Let's put it this way. If Bloodborne was a Xbone game, it's get an update without hoping the devs touch it. That's the context of the comparison, and this video itself.
Regardless of how many Pro games are getting patches, there are many games not reaching their targets on PS4 that might do if they were allowed to so what is happening with Arkham City here.
Mathiassen
Member
Yes, dynamic resolution is good shit, but its not a requirement for games to benefit from Scorpio. If a game struggles to keep the target framerate, Scorpio will help with that. Automagickly. #justworks
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Bloodborne is hitting 30fps, though.
Bloodborne problem is that it's jumping from 30 to 28 to 32 fps Xbox One S method would probably make that even worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6jxhgMteB4
These are frame time issues, they could be improved by better hardware. (An S scenario would NOT make it worse)
Poor example aside, my point still stands.
I know that but he said that the performance difference would grow with Xbox Scorpio & I'm saying that if Xbox One S is already pushing the Xbox One games closer to the targets that they have then it's not going to change much with Scorpio unless it's patched to take advantage of a higher resolution or frame rate then it has already been set to.
No it doesn't now go find that list of Xbox One games with noticable upgrades on Xbox One S that PS4 Pro owners should be wishing for.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Why would anyone provide you with a list when you showed no proof the XBox One S method would make things worse?