Yeah, the AA is good. A bit blurry but good.
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Digital Foundry: CoD Black Ops3 Campaign Frame-Rate Test PS4 vs Xbox ONE
- Thread starter ISee
- Start date
AW was a great looking game to me.=p
I'm sure there are a lot of FPS (where you could see your legs) that did shadows from lightsources other than sun like Crysis, Metro, Stalker etc.
Even KZ2 did it on PS3, although the devs would render the legs as part of the character model but then erase it from view because apparently according to devs legs in FPS look weird (yet they made them visible in KZ3 and SF), but your character did cast shadows from local light sources.
You have an interesting idea of "rock solid". Infamous Second Son? Have you even played it? With the cap, it is not solid. There are still frame pacing issues that pop up and dips below 30fps. It's pretty damn smooth for as good as it looks, but Black Flag and Rivals are both smoother.
Looking over my PS4 games (not including remasters or the games you've already mentioned), these are all very stable experiences.
Alien Isolation - You shit on this one for some reason, but the game itself runs at a stable 30fps - smoother than ISS. At launch, cutscenes had performance issues but, guess what? Those were pre-rendered scenes. It was an issue with the video player and it's been fixed. The game itself is 98% constant - again, better than ISS.
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare - It's not 100% perfect 60fps, but it's much more consistent than EVERY OTHER CoD game from last gen at 1080p to boot.
Destiny - Completely locked 30fps and absolutely beautiful
Far Cry 4 - Basically a locked 30fps - dips are rare. Again, ISS has more drops. Far Cry 3 could barely crack 20fps on PS3 and was loaded with tearing.
Mad Max - Similar to ISS - mostly very stable 30fps with the odd dip here or there. Looks excellent.
MGSV - 99% locked 60fps in an open world game. Truly an impressive display.
Shadow of Mordor - Another locked 30fps experience.
Tearaway Unfolded - Beautifully smooth 60fps with MSAA. NOT a port from Vita as visuals were almost entirely re-done.
Transformers Devastation - Rock solid 60fps
Lego games - All very stable
SOMA - locked 30fps
Strider - locked 60fps - sure, no AF, but it's hardly an issue here and the game is lovely
Vanishing of Ethan Carter - UE4, beautiful game, locked 30fps with cap enabled
Transistor - beautiful 60fps game
Watch Dogs - Nearly locked 30fps - smoother than Second Son
Batman Arkham Knight - Not perfectly locked, but very stable. Similar to ISS. Runs *MUCH* better than Arkham City or Arkham Origins on last gen.
The Order 1866 - Locked 30fps
paradise_circus
Member
SOMA has frame rate issues in places, and it is also has frame time spikes due to loading in new areas of the game. At least, that was the case the last time I played it, but maybe it has been fixed since then.
It's been patched since launch, though I haven't played as much as I'd like.
It's still more stable than inFamous Second Son though hardly a comparable game. I could drop that one from the list. A game like that released on last gen hardware would probably have fared much worse which was the whole point.
Bornstellar
Member
All this Halo 5 "cutting corners talk". Plz. Game has some ugly spots for sure but more often than not is generally gorgeous. Its a damn shame there isn't a proper theatre for campaign.
Love how the look of the carbine changes with lighting conditions.
Continued skull hunting so I took more blind skull shots. This time on Sanghelios.
thelastword
Banned
ISS is not solid? Just like Ryse has no teen dips right? ISS mostly runs in the late 30's to mid 40's unlocked, capped it's a very solid experience, but I never play capped if given the choice because I prefer higher frames. I'm sure for the nature of the game you can stress it to release frames by doing lots of explosions onscreen or doing power moves or stomps, during the power moves you don't have control of the player anyway.
Don't forget First Light, even If I didn't mention it, I always bunch them together, that game is even more solid than ISS. It mostly runs mid 40's and goes up to the 50's too. I mention them capped but obviously I don't play capped.
Shadowfall is the same, a very solid experience......as well.
Did ISS fall to the teens, like A.I did. I'm sure you will say A.I never fell to the teens.....btw, what did you say? It only fell during prerendered scenes? Hmmph....Dark10x said:
The thing about A.I, it didn't go 30-28/29fps, it went from 30-25, 30-24, 30-23, so suddenly, yet this game only has one alien on screen that you're always chasing/avoiding anyway. It is also "shimmering the game" with bad IQ and some very simple textures barred by dark environments and PP (particularly CA).
Issues only in cutscenes you say......from 30fps to.......
Obvioulsy there are more dips than that......The XB1 version is even worse, tearing like crazy to keep frames up. Your definition of smooth has gone the way of the dodo.
I agree with this.......but then that's the logical advancement warranted, seeing we have much better GPU's over last gen and 16x times the RAM.dark10x said:
Seriously? this cross gen game should be 60fps, it doesn't look anything close to impressive as AW and that runs 1080p 60fps as you have stated above.dark10x said:
Come on dark, I won't even get screens on this one, do you even read DF articles or watch their framerate analysis. In their faceoff they were saying the XB1 runs better over the PS4 version, even though that was not correct.....FC4 is no where near a locked 30fps.dark10x said:
It looks great I agree, but performance is not locked, it has many issues with sandstorms etc...it can dip to low 20's.dark10x said:
I agree, it's around Forza's performance minus that game's 30fps intros, so even better.dark10x said:
This game is not a locked 30fps, go reference DF's frametest.dark10x said:
So you bring in remasters and indies in, do you want me to name all the shoddy remasters this gen? I mean Strider, transistor? You know how many indies were 1080p locked 60fps on PS3, yet the standard for that generation was 720p and that's on exotic hardware too. How about Okami with 4xMSAA and it being downsampled from 4k, how about ZOE2 after the botch job, you know very well that we had solid performing indies and remasters last gen, of course there will always be stinkers like Silent Hill HD, but the stinkers this gen are much more prominent.dark10x said:
Lego games should be 60fps, do you forget the PS2 days? Soma is not anywhere near a locked 30fps, Watchdogs is 900p, looks very bland outside of some nice water and is still not a locked 30, though solid. 1886 is very smooth, but it does fall when there are pop-ups and text on screen....... AK is not a locked 30fps, it falls a lot using the batmobile.
You know what locked 30 is? driveclub, it never falls from 30fps ever, I can show you dips even in the mighty forza from 60fps, but driveclub never falls from it's target. That is what I refer to as locked.
Dictator93
Member
I am actually not talking about shadows from the first person player model (feet and chest), but rather from the hands and weapon. Hands and weapon models are usually rendered separately on a fake plane in most FPS games with some rare exceptions.
Look at the shadow from the hands and the gun corresponding with the lights (non-sun lights). (thanks to Roboplato for the screens!)
Most game do not have first person gun/hand self shadows (crysis 1 and 2 do not, but 3 does), some have the shdows though, but only from the sun (Crysis 3, CS GO).
I'm getting confused now - here I was showing how much more solid the PS4 library is compared to last generation and you're shooting me down. I mean, slow down can happen, but the general experiences are pretty good.
Or so I thought.
Now, from what you're telling me, the PlayStation 4 is actually a piece of shit that can't run anything at a stable frame-rate. Even some of the games you've mentioned slow down. I could show you dips under 30fps in ShadowFall. It happens all the time in ISS though I guess it improved in First Light by removing things from the environment!
.
You praise stuff like Until Dawn which runs in the teens like Ryse. From actually playing the games, they are very stable experiences that far exceed average frame-rates of last generation games yet, from what you're telling me, most PS4 games run like shit. Oh oh oh, DriveClub, am I right? A game originally targeting 60fps that had to settle for 30 instead. Whoops. How about that AF huh? Hawt.
Man, and I here I actually thought the PS4 was doing pretty well. Is every single developer working on the platform lazy then? That's kind of what it seems like your message is these days.
PS - you should probably check back in on some of those games. You'd know that Alien Isolation now runs at a solid 30fps on PS4. Yes, patches suck, but it has been addressed. It's also a great fucking game so shame on you for constantly shitting on it. You should probably also go back and revisit the PS360 library - it's much MUCH worse than you remember.
thelastword
Banned
You said these games were 30fps locked, I showed you they were not. A game that falls into the teens is not a solid experience, like Ryse and Alien Isolation, especially A.I which should be running much better with all it's shimmering and bland textures.
BTW ISS, never falls into the teens and is mostly at late 30's to mid 40's whilst playing. That is much better than A.I which had many constant and deep drops.
No I never said that, there are good performing games, what I've been saying is that most of the bad performing games could have run much better looking at the hardware......I think you know that.dark10x said:
I praise the tech, I'm not going to list tech features, but UD uses G.I, volumetric lighting and a nice PBR implementation, has probably the most impressive facial detail in a game and uses a very impressive facial capture and motion solution. I praise that, I never said that it was a solid experience framerate wise, like you said for Ryse and A.I....bonus points that it's native 1080p with a very solid AA solution....Does UD even fall to 16-17fps like Ryse and A.I?dark10 said:
You know I never said that, I've praised many good performing games here, I'm sure you know what they are.dark10x said:
So you went from it only fell in cutscenes, "rock solid 30fps in gameplay" to "it was patched and now it's rock solid, honest..." right? Just like Ryse is solid and does not fall into the teens...to "it only falls into the teens" in that scene you showed.....ok Dark...dark10x said:
What's your PSN id? I need to determine that you've played Alien Isolation. I don't believe you. Rare drops are better than constant skips and hitches a la Second Son. It has serious issues with frame ordering and skips from streaming. A few scenes that dip in an otherwise evenly frame-paced game is a lot better to me than something like ISS.You said these games were 30fps locked, I showed you they were not. A game that falls into the teens is not a solid experience, like Ryse and Alien Isolation, especially A.I which should be running much better with all it's shimmering and bland textures.
BTW ISS, never falls into the teens and is mostly at late 30's to mid 40's whilst playing. That is much better than A.I which had many constant and deep drops.
No I never said that, there are good performing games, what I've been saying is that most of the bad performing games could have run much better looking at the hardware......I think you know that.
I praise the tech, I'm not going to list tech features, but UD uses G.I, volumetric lighting and a nice PBR implementation, has probably the most impressive facial detail in a game and uses a very impressive facial capture and motion solution. I praise that, I never said that it was a solid experience framerate wise, like you said for Ryse and A.I....bonus points that it's native 1080p with a very solid AA solution....Does UD even fall to 16-17fps like Ryse and A.I?
You know I never said that, I've praised many good performing games here, I'm sure you know what they are.
So you went from it only fell in cutscenes, "rock solid 30fps in gameplay" to "it was patched and now it's rock solid, honest..." right? Just like Ryse is solid and does not fall into the teens...to "it only falls into the teens" in that scene you showed.....ok Dark...
thelastword
Banned
What does me playing it have do with it? These are not rare drops, several 5-7 frame drops or a 13 frame drop in a short DF video is even more substantial. What are you going to say now, it's the only place it drops frames in that game, come on dark.....
What I've said about ISS is that it can drop during power moves and delsin stomps, (which is a barrage of effects where you don't have control) but unlocked, you're mostly playing at 35-45fps. First Light is even better, btw, can you reference that video you got that cap from, is it an analysis of the game capped at 30fps? I imagine it may fall below 30fps in that scenario since it's perfectly vysnced....but I wish to see the video and also if it falls to the teens like A.I and Ryse.
Also, what do you mean things were taken out of the environments in first light? Are you talking details and objects, by all means, lets see them. the MB in first light look a bit better to me.
papersleeves
Member
I've read the exchange between you and Dark10x and man, is your condescending tone obnoxious.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-infamous-first-light-performance-analysis
Are you so clueless as to not knowing dark10x is a member of Digital Foundry?
Agreed.
If you'd actually played you know that they are indeed rare drops and don't exist in the current version of the game. Also, those drops are like 1-2 seconds long. It's just a skip. Are you high? Like, that's what you're complaining about?! Good lord, man.
edit - like I'm seriously blown away right now that you used screenshots from that dip. Looking at the video, it's like...literally just a blip. Infamous is 100x worse. Not even comparable. I don't even know what to say.
So you haven't played it then? We're done. You're just acting ridiculous and I don't want to shit up this thread any longer.
He knows damn well.
For older NeoGaf members he is the PlayStation embodiment of Lazy8s!
Lol, I forgot this was about BO3 for a moment, great arguments tho.
thelastword
Banned
I'm not the one using expletives, but please carry on the discussion on Black Ops 3......I've said my piece on the subject....Also, as I've said to dark10x I use facts to judge games when it comes to performance, not any one's words. I'm not interested in the opinions of tech sites, I'm interested in the hard data only. If you don't provide the hard data showing your point or if your opinion mis-matches the data you're presenting, I will question it. This is no squabble against dark10x as a neogaffer or df member or who he is. It's all about the data.
Btw dark, you should know that I would never purchase Alien Isolation on the PS4 going by my views on it...what would that make me.....
It seems to me that while Treyarch never had the best IQ and texture quality, their lighting and attention to detail far surpasses any other dev's Call of Duty games.
The lighting in BO3 is beautiful, especially compared to how dull AW looked. This is even more notable in the multiplayer and zombies.
It should be noted that so far BO3's multiplayer seems to lack the rare framerate drops that AW had.
The lighting in BO3 is beautiful, especially compared to how dull AW looked. This is even more notable in the multiplayer and zombies.
It should be noted that so far BO3's multiplayer seems to lack the rare framerate drops that AW had.
I agree. Hence the performance, there is always a rational explanation that does not necessarily involve top devs being clueless about their target hardware.
They can only do so much with what they have on consoles.
On PC low level APIs like DX12 could really make a huge difference if they use hardware features like async compute or Nvidia Maxwell's, on top of being much less CPU limited, arguably the most tedious bottleneck devs must have to deal with on PC.
I would love to see what the very talented folks at Treyarch could do with contemporary high-end PC hardware and an API which actually maps to said hardware unlike DX11.
The next AAA multiplats releases will shed some light on what can be achieved on PC performance and tech wise, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Hitman 2016, Gears UE are already confirmed to ship with a DX12 renderer, and I suspect Rise of the Tomb Raider will on PC too. What CPU/GPU will be needed then for a console experience ? How better could much more sophisticated rendering tech run on current mid-range/mid-to-high-end/high end PC hardware ?
I expect great things, Fable Legends runs astonishingly well and is visually phenomenal, if this is only a slight peak at what DX12 can allow current PC hardware to achieve then I can't wait to see how things pan out in the future when the API will be better known and PC gaming hardware has further evolved (16nm, Pascal, R9 400 series, HBM 2 etc..).
I mean mid-range hardware (960, R9 285) in spite of being harmstrung by a very old and extremely high overhead API effortlessly outclass consoles, imagine what DX12 could bring.
The first level of the campaign actually wowed me a bit, I thought the amount of shit going on that's visible to the player along with all the smoke and explosions going off at a decent framerate was really impressive. It felt like I was playing the opening to the Terminator lol.
papersleeves
Member
Then that makes him all the more annoying. I'm not saying he do not has the right to disagree, nor should he acknowledges some form of notoriety since you're gaining a portion of your income by doing technical analysis, but the way he discusses his points while ignoring you contribute to the very website he quotes his information from is downright disrespectful.
I am not going to reference Cisco's CCNA book during an argument with the network architect that works right beside me; I know he learned every single lines of that book, plus all the lines from CCNP and CCIE since he participates in god damn RFC on network standards.
Anyway, that was my two cents. Seems like everyone is already moving on
thelastword
Banned
Did you read the AW PDF I posted? Btw, can you show the better textures and lighting you speak of in BO3 vs AW. Also, are you implying that nothing in AW looks better than BO3?
You've said textures, lighting, detail. That's pretty much the entire graphics pipeline minus effects, which some deem are better in BO3 too. You know that can't be right, right? Let's get some visual comparisons going.
How is it disrespectful, when I'm proving him wrong with sample data from his own site. You are free to agree with dark10x on the argument, but don't assume he is right just because he works for DF.papersleeves said:
Not that dark is my professor, but are you saying, you never question your professor's theory in networking class? So if the professor says something that's not meshing logically, you will just say he knows the CCNA book? I'm not sure I would want you to design my network. I think now we're getting off topic, so I won't engage you further on this subject, but just know we disagree.papersleeves said:
papersleeves
Member
Pardon me if this has already been answered, but how is the framerate in the multiplayer portion of BO3? As in, Zombie + the rest?
Caayn
Member
I'm far from a human FPS detector, so take this with a heavy grain of salt.
I didn't really experience major fps drops during my time with zombies and few multiplayer matches. The campaign has a lot worse performance than the other modes. On the XB1 version in my experience.
It's disrespectful because you're misinterpreting the data. What your shots demonstrate are a dip cause basically by a small stutter. It's a pause not reflective of the actual frame-rate. This kind of thing is common. You cannot use that to suggest that a game regularly drops into the teens.
Ryse? Sure. It actually does drop and stay there in select instances. Alien, though? What you're saying about the game is incorrect. You're not looking at the data properly.
I said in my post that the textures don't look as good as AW.
And why so hostile? I was just merely inputting that I thought the lighting looks better. Maybe technically it isn't but I was just saying what I thought. An opinion.
thelastword
Banned
So when you have a 5 minute video with framecounter which you use to judge a game's framerate and show how stable it is, or not.... the dips or what's derived from that count is not admissible? Yet DF used it to say FC4 PS4 is dipping more than the XB1 version in one scene that was not even like for like scene? I didn't show you one instance of low drops in any of the games I capped like DF did in FC4, I showed you many spots where there are deep frame rate drops in A.I and Ryse.
It's the same way you use a 5 min sample of Driveclub and Forza Horizon 2 and those games never flinch, you know how DF convinced people it's a locked 30fps? because throughout the small sample it's rock solid, when the weather update came, another sample shows it's still a rock solid 30fps. This is the metric that DF themselves use to make their points, I'm just at odds with some one saying something when the hard data says different. It's the same way I've never questioned any one saying Driveclub and Horizon 2 are solid 30, because the flip can't be proven or has not been.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
That's more like it
thelastword
Banned
Are you playing XB1 or PS4? how are you discerning this greater texture quality when the resolution is much lower than AW? In that case, can you show what you mean by better textures or lighting? Just questions and requests to show what you mean.....No hostility here....honest.
What you tried to argue it's really unfair. Alien game runs flawless most of the time. I have the game and I'm quite sensitive to horrible fps. Yeah there are surely drops but use it as an example of terrible fps it's absurd. The same it's for Far Cry 4. Killzone 2 was a fps galore compared the 'terrible' Alien, just to say.
Far Cry 4 was rock solid!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QCIyw5NulI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK_9wJH5xkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QCIyw5NulI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK_9wJH5xkQ
I'm talking about PS4. I played both on PS4. I'm not at home right now so I can't quite describe it but BO3 does look more visually striking than AW did when it came to lights poking through and shadows on the walls and stuff like that. And it's a lot more colorful.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
papersleeves
Member
It is like you are doing this on purpose. All the data you provide regarding AI is no more accurate. The game has been patched since then. It does not have these problems anymore. Dark already explained that to you but you keep ignoring this. If you were arguing a point over old data that clearly does not represent the reality anymore in Science, you would be crucified on the spot and lose all credibility. By all mean should you argue your point if you believe you are right. But at the very least, do it so with accurate data.
I surely do question my colleague whenever I do not agree with him, but when he proves himself to be right, I shut my mouth. And when I do question him, I do so in a matter of respect. I do not cite paragraphs of a book he contributes to. Last time I did that, I got my ass handled to me. He's more up-to-date than I am and I recognize it. When I go against him on a subject, you bet your ass I am prepared with accurate data and studies.
It seems like you have never played the game, and the evidences suggest that you did not play it recently. You're backing your points with old, inaccurate data. Is that how you're trying to make yourself credible?
thelastword
Banned
I've never said its unplayable, it's underperforming and with it's deep drops I do not consider it stable.
Fair enough, it's your view, but usually in a tech thread we like to corroborate and show what we mean, that's what gives the discussion some merit.
So it goes from "it only drops during cutscenes" to... it was patched? Why would A.I need to be patched if it was stable in the first place, did you ever ask yourself that question. Also where is the video of the patched version running much better than the drops I showed? So burden of proof is on me, to prove both my point and his? This is bizarre.....
If these references mean anything at all, you are obliged to support whoever it is you wish to in this argument, you are on about some deepseated ethical code that I do not share, I'm only on about the data. Data which is visual and tells the tale. Dark said there was no teen drops in Ryse, he said that A.I was very solid outside of cutscenes, DF's data shows differently. It is up to you to continue to believe that there are no teen drops or severe slowdown and support Dark, I'm only interested in the data.......papersleeves said:
If Dark shows me a framecount on the patched A.I and proves his point I will concede, (however I have always held the opinion that this game should be 60fps anyway, which makes the drops shown here even more off-putting)...... if he goes to other hectic parts of Ryse and shows me a framecount where it never drops or drops to low frames, then I will concede and accept Dark's data. As I said, I'm not about words, I'm about data.
Again, I will never purchase Alien Isolation on the PS4, I actually use faceoffs to decide what I buy and what I don't, what I prioritize and what I don't.
What you've done is twisted the data to fit your view point despite a lack of experience with the game I question.
Alien Isolation operates at a very consistent frame-rate. The drops you've referred to are nothing more than small pauses. The kind of thing that pops up with disc access. You've presented shots without noting that said drops last just a short moment. It's not the game running at 17fps, it's a pause in frame-time due to disk access
This type of thing is very common and does not constitute a bad port. Every Killzone and Naughty Dog PS3 title suffers from this. It registers as a drop when analyzed.
Alien Isolation runs more consistently than Infamous Second Son.
BrainZEROX
Member
The chromatic aberration on the bullet counter is nothing less than atrocious. I wear lenses and it make me unconsciously blink my eyes as my reflex is to think something's wrong with my lenses. Fuck this GFX effect.I am actually not talking about shadows from the first person player model (feet and chest), but rather from the hands and weapon. Hands and weapon models are usually rendered separately on a fake plane in most FPS games with some rare exceptions.
Look at the shadow from the hands and the gun corresponding with the lights (non-sun lights). (thanks to Roboplato for the screens!)
Most game do not have first person gun/hand self shadows (crysis 1 and 2 do not, but 3 does), some have the shdows though, but only from the sun (Crysis 3, CS GO).
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
He was referring to Second Son, not First Light, which runs better because it's city has even less going on than Infamous SS as was noted earlier.
thelastword
Banned
My viewpoint is what I see in the sample data, if you don't want people to have that view then post only fluid 30fps "sample data" from the games you deem locked.
There are no teen drops in ISS and it's operating at a much higher framerate than Ryse or A.I on balance.....I never said that A.i or Ryse are running at 16-17fps on average but these drops are very jarring and are not indicative of a smooth game. I've given you examples of smooth games and these games are not it.
Oh I see, Halo Reach and Halo 4 (I think) had character shadows falling on the gun model...ofcourse only from sun light. I don't think I know of any other game apart from BO3 that does this for local light sources.I am actually not talking about shadows from the first person player model (feet and chest), but rather from the hands and weapon. Hands and weapon models are usually rendered separately on a fake plane in most FPS games with some rare exceptions.
Look at the shadow from the hands and the gun corresponding with the lights (non-sun lights). (thanks to Roboplato for the screens!)
Most game do not have first person gun/hand self shadows (crysis 1 and 2 do not, but 3 does), some have the shdows though, but only from the sun (Crysis 3, CS GO).
Also gun casting a shadow on the hand different from character casting a shadow on gun right?