-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Could PlayStation 5 Pro Handle Path-Traced Games?
- Thread starter ChiefDada
- Start date
Hawking Radiation
Member
Last edited:
Sneakysnake
Member
What specifically did they say that qualifies as a new height of stupidity?
bitbydeath
Member
Path tracing and ray tracing are great buzzwords but I’d rather devs just dropped them as a concept TBH.
They don’t add much to a game and are both extremely resource hungry.
They don’t add much to a game and are both extremely resource hungry.
Mibu no ookami
Member
DF is determined to try and get the PS5 Pro to fail, but it's going to succeed or fail on its own merits.
What's funny is they're going to dedicate significant resources to covering the PS5 Pro and they know it (they already are).
The problem is going to be when fewer Xbox fans tune in on a regular basis because comparison videos don't get as many views and after a while people won't care about Ps5 vs Ps5 pro comparison videos either.
What will determine the success of the PS5 is the developer support, the boosted specs, PSSR, and the price. No matter how many negative videos DF makes about PS5, it won't change anything.
What's funny is they're going to dedicate significant resources to covering the PS5 Pro and they know it (they already are).
The problem is going to be when fewer Xbox fans tune in on a regular basis because comparison videos don't get as many views and after a while people won't care about Ps5 vs Ps5 pro comparison videos either.
What will determine the success of the PS5 is the developer support, the boosted specs, PSSR, and the price. No matter how many negative videos DF makes about PS5, it won't change anything.
bitbydeath
Member
Helldivers 2, for example, doesn't use either Ray Tracing or Path Tracing, and instead put the resources they saved into lighting up the screen in the best way possible.
Last edited:
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Old Digital Foundry would of looked at the leak from Tom Henderson and break it down point by point to gauge performance.
Now Digital Foundry trying their best to downplay the PS5 Pro capabilities.
Ever since Alex came on board I've noticed a bias against console. I think its more that than anything Sony vs MS, though they have a dubious history with MS. They helped MS market both the One X and Series S/X with those "unveiling" videos after all.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
This is why I'm hoping devs focus on RTGI and shadows instead of PT. That would already be a big step up for Ps5 pro over what the reg ps5 has been capable of. Trying to do PT would come at too high a cost. Plus, the CPU in these consoles is weak compared to people's cpus when running PT on PC.
Why are we skipping a whole step when right now Cyberpunk 2077 can't even run ANY RT at 60 fps and Fidelity Mode doesn't even have RT reflections or GI??
iamvin22
Industry Verified
The amount of..... You know what nevermind. I'll just let you dream.
Playboi Carti
Member
A shitton of last-gen looking VFX doesn't look that impressive at all, hell, the game looks like a last-gen game with a few extra bells and whistles. Not shitting on the game, I have it and I love it, the visuals just don't do nothing for me personally. A lot of current-gen games still suffer from having VFX that doesn't live up to the rest of the fidelity of the game, SM2 is also another one that comes to mind.Helldivers 2, for example, doesn't use either Ray Tracing or Path Tracing, and instead put the resources they saved into lighting up the screen in the best way possible.
Last edited:
Hawking Radiation
Member
So realistically can we expect PS6 and the Next Xbox to run path traced games or is this another few gens away?
This gen has been a bit disappointing in terms of visuals. I really expected a noticable leap in graphics.
This gen has been a bit disappointing in terms of visuals. I really expected a noticable leap in graphics.
bitbydeath
Member
Ray-tracing and path tracing aren’t it either.
Point was the resources could be better spent elsewhere, such as the bells and whistles.
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Meh, it's the internal res for "quality mode" reconstruction but OK, as long as we establish parameters.
OK, but there's a possibility. Far cry from the the idea being laughed out of the room as DF did.
Now here is where I completely disagree with you. I think more than anything the closed platform optimization will allow for PSSR to achieve better results than DLSS. Bookmarked.
We'll see.
Well, let's put it this way: I wouldn’t be the type to praise the 7900XTX for having a 33% fps advantage over 4070 in a more compute centric benchmark (Avatar Pandora 1080p ultra) considering the fact that 7900XTX has 61% higher transistor count.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You expect Sony to do better than 6 years of work because closed platform? Good luck with that.Meh, it's the internal res for "quality mode" reconstruction but OK, as long as we establish parameters.
OK, but there's a possibility. Far cry from the the idea being laughed out of the room as DF did.
Now here is where I completely disagree with you. I think more than anything the closed platform optimization will allow for PSSR to achieve better results than DLSS. Bookmarked.
We'll see.
Well, let's put it this way: I wouldn’t be the type to praise the 7900XTX for having a 33% fps advantage over 4070 in a more compute centric benchmark (Avatar Pandora 1080p ultra) considering the fact that 7900XTX has 61% higher transistor count.
MikeM
Member
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Sony has been working on image based reconstruction with gaming applications in mind. They aren't entirely new to this. Fair skepticism, albeit a bit overblown in this forum whenever PSSR is brought up.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I understand what you are saying in that they are unreachable for most right now, but ray tracing is the future - it is the graphical leap people are wanting, raster is all diminishing returns at this point.
Bulletbrain
Member
Have we seen a high-quality example of PSSR in action (either high-quality stills or better yet, videos) to compare against incumbents? Until we can assess the IQ and performance metrics ourselves, any level of skepticism is absolutely warranted. Every tech company does continuous R&D relevant to their main products and services, thus Sony doing R&D in image reconstruction doesn't automatically mean their solution will match the best implementation in the market right out of the gate.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Not "any". We know the immense performance advantagecof fixed function hardware. We can make educated guesses of how hw based PSSR will fare against software based FSR 2.
Well sure but ultimately this thread will be speculative in nature for the time being.
Ashamam
Member
Haven't seen any real examples that are usable. We have heard anecdotes that its impressing developers. Thats about all we have at the moment. But put that and Sony's pedigree together and I think its reasonable to expect it to be competitive in the ML upscaling space.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Pro is not designed for path tracing. DF making biased videos as always.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
7900xt is 2.3x more powerful than the 10.7 tflops RDNA2 card. Sony is promising 2-4x.
If its 4x then they can easily do PT at 4k 30 dlss performance medium settings in cyberpunk. other games might be different. but they dont need to. they can also do 1440p dlss quality or dlss balanced. image quality should still be fine if their AI upscaling solution is fine.
DF shouldnt just be saying NO like that. It is possible. even at lower resolutions. We are already seeing several games drop to 1080p internal resolutions on the base PS5 in quality mode. who is to say they wont go down further now that they have a better upscaling solution?
If anything we should wait and see how RDNA4 cards perform. if AMD is finally getting to nvidia level then PT is definitely possible on a card thats equivalent to a 3070 or a 3080. You just need to reduce the internal resolution to 1080p or slightly lower.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Obviously we haven't seen it, but what we can speculate is pretty key here.
We can assume that it is better than FSR or otherwise Sony likely would have relied on FSR.
We also know that it can apply to all games even those that aren't on an updated SDK unlike the rest of the PS5 Pro feature set.
We also know that it isn't doesn't require a per game data pool again meaning it can work with all games.
These are pretty good starting points for Sony. Even if PSSR isn't as good as DLSS, it being more widespread across games and therefore easier to support and implement is key.
SonGoku
Member
If RDNA4 catches up to lovelace RT performance that would not be out of the real of possibility
A RTX 4070 can handle path tracing max settings with DLSS
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Many months ago they said they didn't see any benefit in a PS5 Pro and that the hardware would be pointless. Now they have nothing better to do than pump out one nonsense video after the next.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Also Digital Foundry....
Cyborg
Member
For me;
- I will buy a PS5 Pro because it will play all the games better, it's a no-brainer for me.
- People expecting miracles for a 499/599 machine are just crazy, stop comparing it to a PC.
If you can afford a PS5-Pro why would you still be playing on a PS5? No matter what the Pro can do, it will run your games better and if you care about that then the choice is simple.
- I will buy a PS5 Pro because it will play all the games better, it's a no-brainer for me.
- People expecting miracles for a 499/599 machine are just crazy, stop comparing it to a PC.
If you can afford a PS5-Pro why would you still be playing on a PS5? No matter what the Pro can do, it will run your games better and if you care about that then the choice is simple.
Bojji
Member
DLSS 2.0 has been trained and improved since 2019/20. Intel xess is not the same quality despite having ML just like DLSS.
So yeah, chance of PSSR being on the level of DLSS is not very high, over time it should get better.
mrMUR_96
Member
Me. Path tracing is a huge graphical step-up, and modern upscaling like dlss and hopefully pssr can make lower resolutions way less of an issue than it used to be.
Schmendrick
Member
Could it? Yes.
Should it? Nope. Not enough performance reserves to do it well + good fps + good enough res/upscaling. Maybe for mini-scope projects, but anything larger will already strugle with decent RTGI (meaning good ray and bouncecount).
Helldivers 2 is very apparently last gen/AA looking the moment you stand still for a second and actually look at it.
Should it? Nope. Not enough performance reserves to do it well + good fps + good enough res/upscaling. Maybe for mini-scope projects, but anything larger will already strugle with decent RTGI (meaning good ray and bouncecount).
And you don´t think explosions/characters should throw shadows? Because the lighting issues in your examples are really .....really obvious. Nothing`s grounded, everything is floaty and glowy.
Helldivers 2 is very apparently last gen/AA looking the moment you stand still for a second and actually look at it.
Last edited:
ClosBSAS
Member
Lol once again this forum putting sony at that massive high peak its never on. Ps5 was good for 4 months, now its almost obsolete. Ps5 pro can come all you qant, devs will still have to cater to the lower end machine....shit cant even run ff16 at 60fps.
Shits gonna ve overrated and underpowered again. No, it wont do full path tracing on cyberpunk a cross gen game.
Shits gonna ve overrated and underpowered again. No, it wont do full path tracing on cyberpunk a cross gen game.
bitbydeath
Member
I don’t think the trade-off is worth it when they can achieve so much more without it.
bitbydeath
Member
There’s no other game that does explosions anywhere near as good as it.
Schmendrick
Member
eh...the explosions are nothing special, the big ones aren`t even volumetric.....
You are praising visual design, not outstanding tech.
bitbydeath
Member
The tech is amazing, have you played it?
Schmendrick
Member
120 hours by now. And the tech is the one aspect that`s absolutely not impressive at all.....
Last edited:
bitbydeath
Member
BS.
This is beautiful, the volumetric clouds, the winds, the explosion in the distance.
Show another game that comes anywhere close to this.
Schmendrick
Member
The only BS here is your eyesight if you don`t even see the smoke clipping through that canned animation...nothing about this is actually physics based, dynamic or even truly volumetric...it`s a canned animation with environmental triggers. .....
You are once again praising design, not tech.
Last edited:
bitbydeath
Member
Waiting for you to show one better…
Schmendrick
Member
2007......
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
That 1 to 1 comparison nonsense always comes when there are no objective arguments left.....as if specific scenes in different games were comparable.
Last edited:
bitbydeath
Member
Last edited:
The Fuzz damn you!
Gold Member
Pro tip: if the headline is a question, the answer is always “no”.
If it were “yes,” they would lead with the sensational claim rather than the sensational question.
If it were “yes,” they would lead with the sensational claim rather than the sensational question.
Schmendrick
Member
That crysis mod from 15 years ago was already doing it better.
That 99.99999% of games simply don`t have nukes on their screens at any time is not a testament to Helldivers technical prowess.
Once again you are unable to understand the difference between design and tech....or you literally have magoo eyesight....
Last edited:
bitbydeath
Member
Schmendrick
Member
Dunning Kruger par excellence...
Educate yourself about shadow systems and ambient occlusion... It really isn't that complicated....
Bojji
Member
You can see it is using physics.
Nukes are nothing new in games.
KZ2 (terrible video quality)
MWR (looks amazing)
Invincible (spoilers)