bitbydeath
Member
You think shadows and ambient inclusion, the two things most PC gamers turn off first due to their insignificance is important.
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Digital Foundry: Could PlayStation 5 Pro Handle Path-Traced Games?
- Thread starter ChiefDada
- Start date
bitbydeath
Member
I didn’t say it was new, Helldivers displays it best was the argument, and if that means removing uninteresting additions like ray tracing then we should have more of the former. The former being, as someone else put it, bells and whistles.
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JimboJones
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That’s total bullshit lmao.
Schmendrick
Member
That is too stupid to even comment on.....
bitbydeath
Member
Even back in the 90’s that was the case, google it.
Ambient Occlusion: The stupidest graphical technique of all time
Ambient Occlusion is a technique that basically adds shadows to certain parts of the environment. However, the result is barely noticable in most cases, and completely unconvincing and unnatural looking in others. Lets look at some comparison screens. When you have to break out the red ink...
Who else thinks turning off ambient occlusion makes the game better :: BATTLETECH Discussions générales
So I read turning off ambient occlusion would help speed up the game. Not only did it do that, it IMHO makes the mechs look way better! That wierd outline shine thing is gone, they look crisp and cleaner now.
I hope people realize that Ambient Occlusion is bad
I'm referring to the graphics option, on by default, that blurs the outlines of objects and floods the background with diffuse lighting. Unfortunately, it is on by default, an even more unfortunately, it is common in modern games. People don't think twice about it, probably they don't even think ...
forums.homecomingservers.com
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Schmendrick
Member
Yeah, that's about where you stopped following the tech it seems....
bitbydeath
Member
The links I provided go up til this year.
Schmendrick
Member
Yeah congrats on googling a few threads somewhere (and even in those the OP is being ridiculed) and claiming a few dozen posts are representative for all pc gamers. If you don't understand yourself just how stupid that is....
Now go in the graphics threads here and repeat your bullshit claims.... Not representative either, but maybe it gives you a bit of perspective.
We went from "Helldivers tech is soooo impressive" to "Who needs bells and whistles".
Your goalpost moving and inability to differentiate between design and tech is dumbfounding....
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
And all of the responses in these threads shit on the OP for being incorrect. And one of these threads is from a freakin' decade ago.Even back in the 90’s that was the case, google it.
Ambient Occlusion: The stupidest graphical technique of all time
Ambient Occlusion is a technique that basically adds shadows to certain parts of the environment. However, the result is barely noticable in most cases, and completely unconvincing and unnatural looking in others. Lets look at some comparison screens. When you have to break out the red ink...www.neogaf.com
Who else thinks turning off ambient occlusion makes the game better :: BATTLETECH Discussions générales
So I read turning off ambient occlusion would help speed up the game. Not only did it do that, it IMHO makes the mechs look way better! That wierd outline shine thing is gone, they look crisp and cleaner now.steamcommunity.com
I hope people realize that Ambient Occlusion is bad
I'm referring to the graphics option, on by default, that blurs the outlines of objects and floods the background with diffuse lighting. Unfortunately, it is on by default, an even more unfortunately, it is common in modern games. People don't think twice about it, probably they don't even think ...forums.homecomingservers.com
Please, stop embarrassing yourself.
You typed a lot of stupid shit but AO and shadows being useless might just be at the top of the pile.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
You realize you are making the argument for ray tracing? Ambient occlusion is pretty much standard now but once came with a massive performance hit that people didn't think was worth it.Even back in the 90’s that was the case, google it.
Ambient Occlusion: The stupidest graphical technique of all time
Ambient Occlusion is a technique that basically adds shadows to certain parts of the environment. However, the result is barely noticable in most cases, and completely unconvincing and unnatural looking in others. Lets look at some comparison screens. When you have to break out the red ink...
Who else thinks turning off ambient occlusion makes the game better :: BATTLETECH Discussions générales
So I read turning off ambient occlusion would help speed up the game. Not only did it do that, it IMHO makes the mechs look way better! That wierd outline shine thing is gone, they look crisp and cleaner now.
I hope people realize that Ambient Occlusion is bad
I'm referring to the graphics option, on by default, that blurs the outlines of objects and floods the background with diffuse lighting. Unfortunately, it is on by default, an even more unfortunately, it is common in modern games. People don't think twice about it, probably they don't even think ...forums.homecomingservers.com
Anyone can see that AO is better here.
As for the nuke thing - there are no games with path tracing that have nukes so no-one can show how much better a nuke would look with pathtracing on but anyone can see that this
while looking cool also looks kinda wrong with the 3 guys looking like stickers.
Did Helldivers make the right choice not to do path tracing - sure. But raster is reaching its limit - the crysis mod video shows how we have barely progressed if at all.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The one from this year is just people laughing at the OP for possibly being an AI and for making shitty nonsensical threads (is it highpoly, seems like a highpoly thread)
MisterXDTV
Member
The fact that they are now pushing for Path Tracing on PS5 Pro is a way to make the console look weak...
RTX 5090 vs PS5 Pro comparisons are coming!
LOL
RTX 5090 vs PS5 Pro comparisons are coming!
LOL
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They are not pushing anything. They were asked a question on their podcast which they answered.
JimboJones
Member
I think this is often the perception that some people take , like they are just appearing and handing down the 10 commandments of what the PS5pro can and won't be able to do
.Often people clip or take a sound bite and run with it.
When it's literally just an educated guess with the available information at hand or similar hardware, often they say they don't know.
There could be some acceleration going on but we have to wait to see but going with what information we have it seems very unlikely that the vast majority of games will not be using path tracing.
Pedro Motta
Member
Also Digital Foundry....
Kenpachii
Member
I think u probably are v-ram limited then, cyberpunk eats v-ram at higher resolutions with pathtracing.
Magic Carpet
Member
I think your probly right, CP77 does fill up my 12GB of VRAM.
DrDamn
Member
So back in 2020 DF went to MS and saw a demo of XSX hardware running a version of Minecraft which was path traced. Are they now suggesting PS5 Pro couldn't do this? Or maybe ...
www.eurogamer.net
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
PaintTinJr
Member
It is interesting that the 8bit Integer 300TOPS/s to 67 TFLOPS/s (FP16) when halved gets the derived theoretical 33.5TFLOPS/s number of the 30 WGPs as Dual issue at (FP32) at the GPU clock, showing that the AI acceleration is on the WGPs. with "Custom machine learning architecture" referring to modifying RDNA to be versatile to do accelerated AI with INT8 and FP, in addition to accelerating traditional raster and compute.Old Digital Foundry would of looked at the leak from Tom Henderson and break it down point by point to gauge performance.
Now Digital Foundry trying their best to downplay the PS5 Pro capabilities.
The "In addition: 30WGPs running specialized BVH8 traversal shaders ...", presumably meaning they run in parallel to the raster/compute/AI, as in "in addition", which supports an old argument for PS5 intersection engines being non-blocking unlike the Xbox series which blocks on texture samplers if using BVH, as this "in addition" comment supports Cerny's quote in the Road to PS5 about intersections running in parallel to shaders.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
My 6900xt can run path traced Quake 2 pretty decent. It is not gonna be running Cyberpunk path tracing or even ultra ray tracing.So back in 2020 DF went to MS and saw a demo of XSX hardware running a version of Minecraft which was path traced. Are they now suggesting PS5 Pro couldn't do this? Or maybe ...
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
MikeM
Member
Thats native though. See my previous post in here using my 7900xt with PT.
Looking at this, lol no
MikeM
Member
To add to this, the 7700xt at 1440p gets 22.8 fps per techpowerup at 1440p with normal RT. 7900xt gets 33.5fps in the same test. A 6700xt gets 15.5fps.
Now, DF did a video which included a PS5 running in RT mode at 27fps in Cyberpunk versus a 6700 non-xt which was running console settings getting 18fps. Seems PS may have a better RT pipeline so if RT was actually improved, the reality of a 60fps RT mode or higher may be possible so long as the rest of the console doesn’t bottleneck and assuming the 2x-4x RT increase is true.
Video for reference is called “The PS5 in PC Form?” on YT- 8:32 mark.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Looking at this, lol no
There's zero reason for a console equipped with hardware ML upscaling to run 1440p native when attempting path tracing. No need for ultra settings either.
DrDamn
Member
Oh yeah there are definitely levels of complexity here, and even with a decent boost from PS5->PS5 Pro in RT I don't think it will be running Cyberpunk. My point was actually more about DF and their relationship with the platform holders. They lap up the demo MS show them with platitudes, but are dismissive of what a PS5 Pro with RT capabilities exceeding that could do. MS never released an RT update for Minecraft on XSX. Which does raise a couple of awkward questions, none of which DF will address obviously.
mayham2199
Member
haha perfect answer.
zeroluck
Member
Path tracing isn't worth it for anything below a 1440p internal rendering resolution, image quality compromise is too big. 4080 is the minimum baseline required for ~30 fps.
Anchovie123
Member
I dont think Cyberpunk should be used as a bench as that game is weirdly NVIDIA slanted. Alan Wake 2 is probably more accurate.
A 1080p>4k(PSSR) 30fps PT mode would probably be possible on Pro
A 1080p>4k(PSSR) 30fps PT mode would probably be possible on Pro
zeroluck
Member
Alan wake 2 path tracing is just PR, it is lite ray tracing.I dont think Cyberpunk should be used as a bench as that game is weirdly NVIDIA slanted. Alan Wake 2 is probably more accurate.
A 1080p>4k(PSSR) 30fps PT mode would probably be possible on Pro
Bojji
Member
Yeah it's not comparable to CP. Entire lighting system is different in CP, here it's not that much difference, biggest differences are reflections but they could just offer that as RT reflections without PT (and why they don't?).
zeroluck
Member
The game does offer options to toggle some RT off, when you can toggle each individual RT effects it is not path tracing.
Kenpachii
Member
Well u guys are also linking benches of no dlss or framegen. While pathtracing with a 4070 u get 17 fps at 1440p. U get with dlss quality at 1080p with framegen 80-100 fps,
That's the thing with the PRO also, if they can get a stable solution with AI framegen going at a locked framerate + DLSS alternative then 720 render to 1440p at 30fps could be doable. There is a good chance path tracing is on the menu.
That's the thing with the PRO also, if they can get a stable solution with AI framegen going at a locked framerate + DLSS alternative then 720 render to 1440p at 30fps could be doable. There is a good chance path tracing is on the menu.
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ultrazilla
Gold Member
Man screw all the "ray tracing, path tracing" bullshit and give us a proper 4k resolution at 60fps as a *base* performance metric.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Hello, what can l do for you?Did someone say BLAST PROCESSING?!
JimboJones
Member
Please blast some path tracing into every PS5 game.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Well yeah my 3060 could do it in Cyberpunk at 3 fps...
Gamerguy84
Member
Been watching DF for 2.5 gens now pick their wording carefully. Always making sure to slam PS and cast negative doubt and give major uplift to their competition.
Miss lens of truth.
Miss lens of truth.
bitbydeath
Member
There’s also a lot of people agreeing with them and if you google it you will find there is 100’s if not 1000’s more.
Bells and whistles is the Helldivers tech, which is much more impressive than putting all your resources into the likes of ray tracing.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
about as well as it can do 8k
bitbydeath
Member
Did you see the gif after as well?You realize you are making the argument for ray tracing? Ambient occlusion is pretty much standard now but once came with a massive performance hit that people didn't think was worth it.
Anyone can see that AO is better here.
As for the nuke thing - there are no games with path tracing that have nukes so no-one can show how much better a nuke would look with pathtracing on but anyone can see that this
while looking cool also looks kinda wrong with the 3 guys looking like stickers.
Did Helldivers make the right choice not to do path tracing - sure. But raster is reaching its limit - the crysis mod video shows how we have barely progressed if at all.
That’s a still shot of an enormous explosion, watch the gif to see how it translates in real-time, and that Crysis video is horribly outdated on all fronts, there was nothing impressive about it at all.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
bitbydeath
Member
Yeah, I didn’t read them all but if you go into google you will see it is frequently complained about as one of the most useless features, and if you know other PC gamers you would have likely heard it from them too.
What feature do you typically turn off first on PC? What is worst for you?
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Bojji
Member
Little brother already did it, and at 60fps no less.
And yet we also have 720p games, 36x difference in resolution...
Hrk69
Member
Most developers still need to update their games.
Games aren't magically going to run/play better.
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Physiognomonics
Member
The "it won't double framerate to PS5 games" didn't work so they are trying another hit piece, this time "The PS5 Pro won't do what a 4090 barely does so it will be a failure".
On the other hand were they negative about the fact that their loved Hellblade 2 will only be 30fps on their monster? Did they remind their readers that all Sony exclusive games (and the best looking console games out there, open-world at that) are running at 60fps? Of course they didn't. They wrote one damage control sentence in their last propaganda piece about that game.
On the other hand were they negative about the fact that their loved Hellblade 2 will only be 30fps on their monster? Did they remind their readers that all Sony exclusive games (and the best looking console games out there, open-world at that) are running at 60fps? Of course they didn't. They wrote one damage control sentence in their last propaganda piece about that game.
While they already written novels about those "30fps games that won't run at 60fps on PS5 Pro".
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You got a bunch of PC gamers here telling you the opposite.
bitbydeath
Member
There’s PC gamers, and then there’s those who keep on or close to the latest hardware that don’t need to turn things off.