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[googleplex]

About that. It's real simple. I'm not buying it unless it's PC compatible. I'm not having more then one VR head set in the house.

Then you don't buy it because it doesn't make sense to you. That fine. But it doesn't make any more sense for sony to chace after the few thousand PC gamers they wont make a dime from software sakes and not the 30+ million PS4 owners in 2016.

The "Morpheus better come to PC" thing is basically a troll at this point and serves no purpose other then to derail the topic.

 

[Joey Ravn]

Are people still going on about PC compatibility? There is zero reason or benefit for Sony to have Morpheus work on PC.

Just stop guys.

Morpheus only on PS4 = Only people with PS4s can buy it.
Morpheus on both platforms = Both people with PS4 and/or PC can buy it.

It seems to me that Sony would be effectively doubling the potential userbase of its product. And it would be a great incentive for people who have both PC and PS4, since they could use one VR solution for both platforms. But if you say that there's "zero benefit" for Sony to release Morpheus for PC, then you're probably right.

 

[cyberheater]

Then you don't buy it because it doesn't make sense to you. That fine. But it doesn't make any more sense for sony to chace after the few thousand PC gamers they wont make a dime from software sakes and not the 30+ million PS4 owners in 2016.

Even it it's not PC compatible out of the box. I'm pretty sure it will be hacked for PC use pretty quickly so I think I'll do just fine thank you.

 

[martino]

Yup I share these concerns. More reason for them to make it PC compatible because there will be no lack of support there.

Sony should be trying to get these in as many hands as possible right now by making it the choice that works on the most platforms. There's no way the Steam and Oculus will ever work with Playstation.

Then when all these people have it regardless of what they bought it for, PC or PS4, and the PS5 comes out, these can act as a reason people pick up the PS5 if VR does turn out to be successful.

My thinking (if VR truly is more than a adding gimmick for a short move revival trend which i'm not confident it is for now)

 

[googleplex]

Even it it's not PC compatible out of the box. I'm pretty sure it will be hacked for PC use pretty quickly so I think I'll do just fine thank you.

Good luck with that one.

I just wish people would stop shittng up Morpheus threads with the PC compatibility nonsense. Its glorified port begging.

 

[mrklaw]

Im not convinced on Sony's support. Stuff like London Heist have the potential to be amazing.

Same with that Sorcery demo Sony showed with move..
http://youtu.be/llAI7lNd6OQ

So what was the final game like? literally an extended demo. Every move exclusive game Sony threw out had the same budget as some of those carnival shovelware games on Wii. If sony wants morpheus to succeed they don't have to throw AAA money at it, but at least give us one A games.

major differences this time

1) this isn't Sony launching a simple accessory.mthey will have invested way more in getting morpheus to market than they did with move. They said themselves that the LED on the DS4 and the specs of the PS camera were partly based on knowing morpheus was coming, so that investment reaches through to their core PS4 product too. This is a big deal to them.

2) the planets are aligning. With oculus and now valve getting involved, sony isn't needing to carry the world on its shoulders - there will be huge amounts of column inches reporting on VR and that will benefit Sony way more than with move.

3) indies. Linked to (2) but IMO indies wil really drive things rapidly on PC, and the vast majority of those will want to be on PS4 as well for a larger addressable market. On PS3 that would have been difficult/impossible, but he publishing environment for indies on PS4 means that is relatively easy.

I don't have any doubt that PS4 will get 90%+ of the commercial PC VR experiences. You'll miss all the quirky demos and more adult content though.

 

[AngryMoth]

Interesting that they seem very far along in hardware development but feels like they will probably end up launching last. I wonder if it's because they want to wait for some substantial software.

Also all this talk about motion controllers is cool and makes for a good demo but realisticly I don't see it as very viable for consumer experiences simply due to cost. The headset is already gonna carry a hefty price tag, sticking another $100 or whatever on top of that for a pair of move or vive controllers is too much to ask imo. Developers are gonna have to figure out how to do VR right with the tradtional controllers we already have, to begin with at least.

 

[googleplex]

Also all this talk about motion controllers is cool and makes for a good demo but realisticly I don't see it as very viable for consumer experiences simply due to cost. The headset is already gonna carry a hefty price tag, sticking another $100 or whatever on top of that for a pair of move of vive controllers is too much to ask imo. Developers are gonna have to figure out how to do VR right with the tradtional controllers we a have, to begin with at least.

Fortunately, every PlayStation 4 comes with a 3D input device. The DS4.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

Was that a WipeOut track in the background of one of the shots of the Playroom bots?

Surely a VR port of WipeOut HD wouldn't be too hard to achieve on PS4. Bundle it with the headset as a free download.

That and No Man's Sky and I'll be sorted.

 

[DavidDesu]

Was that a WipeOut track in the background of one of the shots of the Playroom bots?

Surely a VR port of WipeOut HD wouldn't be too hard to achieve on PS4. Bundle it with the headset as a free download.

That and No Man's Sky and I'll be sorted.

Did you see the video where the DS4 literally turned into a plane and you controlled the flight by simply holding the DS4 and titling it to move like a plane..? I can imagine this would be a great, immersive way of piloting a ship in Wipeout. The graphics of something like Wipeout which was 60fps on PS3 should be achievable at the full 120fps that Morpheus can deliver, and the experience would be bloody crazy. Imagine being IN Zone Mode. Jesus.

Oh and if No Man's Sky DOESN'T get a VR mode it'll be more disappointing than the combined times everyone has been hyped for The Last Guardian and then been let down.

 

[Loofy]

Then you don't buy it because it doesn't make sense to you. That fine. But it doesn't make any more sense for sony to chace after the few thousand PC gamers they wont make a dime from software sakes and not the 30+ million PS4 owners in 2016.

The "Morpheus better come to PC" thing is basically a troll at this point and serves no purpose other then to derail the topic.

Depends on how sony markets this thing.
They can market it as a big screen 3D display that you can connect to your blu ray player, cable box, game systems etc. Or they could market it as a PS4 accessory.

 

[Kayant]

major differences this time

1) this isn't Sony launching a simple accessory.mthey will have invested way more in getting morpheus to market than they did with move. They said themselves that the LED on the DS4 and the specs of the PS camera were partly based on knowing morpheus was coming, so that investment reaches through to their core PS4 product too. This is a big deal to them.

2) the planets are aligning. With oculus and now valve getting involved, sony isn't needing to carry the world on its shoulders - there will be huge amounts of column inches reporting on VR and that will benefit Sony way more than with move.

3) indies. Linked to (2) but IMO indies wil really drive things rapidly on PC, and the vast majority of those will want to be on PS4 as well for a larger addressable market. On PS3 that would have been difficult/impossible, but he publishing environment for indies on PS4 means that is relatively easy.

I don't have any doubt that PS4 will get 90%+ of the commercial PC VR experiences. You'll miss all the quirky demos and more adult content though.

Added to that some of the feedback from devs in terms of porting it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=953536
https://twitter.com/MixedBagGames/status/544961058289778688

@Loofy

Thanks for the video. I don't really like motion stuff but that is amazing definitely will check that out when I get a PS3.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

The graphics of something like Wipeout which was 60fps on PS3 should be achievable at the full 120fps that Morpheus can deliver, and the experience would be bloody crazy. Imagine being IN Zone Mode. Jesus.

That's what I was thinking: didn't WipeOut HD lock the framerate and then modify the resolution on fly? It already has a 3d mode (I know it's not the same as VR, but some of the rendering work is probably reusable).

I love the idea of zone VR (especially with a custom soundtrack), but I'm not sure if the higher speeds would result in motion sickness or worse (they had to tone the effects down to pass the epilepsy tests, didn't they?).

 

[googleplex]

The graphics of something like Wipeout which was 60fps on PS3 should be achievable at the full 120fps that Morpheus can deliver, and the experience would be bloody crazy. Imagine being IN Zone Mode. Jesus.
.

Every Copy of WipeOut VR comes with its own Barf Bag lol.

And I'd play it until my eye balls melted.

 

[Neuromancer]

Great article.

I seem to recall a developer saying somewhere that one solution to the locomotion issue is to use your hands to sort of pull yourself through the world. I'm not sure how feasible that really is though.

I agree that the 'peripheral begging' is getting out of control. Every Morpheus thread, it seems, gets jammed up with it. I fully expect Morpheus to be incompatible with PC and I'm fine with that. I'll probably end up getting either an Oculus or a HTC, whatever's better (or first).

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

Great for tracking, but on the developer side, there's still way too many problems in terms of designing a good and worthwhile experience based on standing up and walking around in a home situation.

My humble solution to this was inspired by the way Vive warns you before you walk into one of your walls. The idea is that you no longer need to design real-world solutions to these problems - just virtual ones. Thus instead of an omnidirectional treadmill, you place a virtual ring aound the player's feet, such that taking steps into any zone of that ring causes the player character to move in that direction.

Can't say how it would work in practice, nor whether the idea has already been tried and dismissed ... I could imagine inputting a series of inputs may lead to the virtual circle moving steadily closer your phyiscal walls. However in the modern spirit of VR research I give free permission to base a traversal solution on the above!

 

[serversurfer]

I seem to recall a developer saying somewhere that one solution to the locomotion issue is to use your hands to sort of pull yourself through the world. I'm not sure how feasible that really is though.

It's called ratcheting, and it actually works quite well, as do flight and teleportation.

People need to stop thinking like people. The fact that we're really there doesn't mean we can't be gods.

 

[Fafalada]

90hz headsets will be running at 90fps, though. There will be no cheating

Let's clarify some misconceptions here.
There's always going to be "cheating" - the reprojection corrects for ~10.5ms at 90fps, or 33% of latency you'd have otherwise. All demos on Oculus use time-warp (and presumably so do other HMDs), because otherwise, none of them would be close to that magic 20ms barrier @90hz or lower.

My point was, though, that even at a native framerate (90, or even 120) you're probably going to be using time warping.

See above - but yes, in a nutshell.
The number in ms, is lower at 120fps - but you're still looking at a significant reduction regardless.
This should also answer people suggesting ghosting is somehow related to time-warp (it's not). That being said - these low-persistence displays DO still exhibit ghosting (at least the one(s) I tested to date), with or without Time-warping.

Indeed, because 45fps is probably too low a threshold to use it like this.It's either 45fps or 90fps, and one is probably a bit too low.

That's just being silly.
With async time-warping your render-updates aren't required to be v-synced below screen-framerate. 73fps will reproject to 90 just as nice as 45 - the difference is you will be correcting for a smaller time-delta in ms, meaning potentially less artifacts to deal with.

I'll also note here that we're still in very early days of exploring possibilities. For instance, on modern GPUs render-pipeline where you go single-buffered/chasing VSync is actually viable(on fixed hw, I doubt this will ever work on PC), which would allow us to hit 20ms treshold on 60fps, without time-warping.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

The fact that we're really there doesn't mean we can't be gods.

What a wonderful sentiment!

VR to transform human consciousness ...

I can dig it. In the short term though, people will still want to be people.


...


We're definitely going to be rigging these things up to consumer drones in short order. I can imagine consumer level drone submarines cropping up in countries like Australia where there's anything to see.

And then space ...

 

[gofreak]

That's just being silly.
With async time-warping your render-updates aren't required to be v-synced below screen-framerate. 73fps will reproject to 90 just as nice as 45 - the difference is you will be correcting for a smaller time-delta in ms, meaning potentially less artifacts to deal with.

Well, I wondered about this too because Oculus, for example, recommend leaning on ATW to compensate for relatively temporary dips in framerate (e.g. maybe down to 80 from 90). However - perhaps in cases of more sustained variability in framerate - it kind of sounds like they would recommend instead locking down to half-rate:

Additionally, the frame rate ratio between the game rendering and device refresh rate affects the perceived quality of the motion judder. In our experience, ATW should run at a fixed fraction of the game frame rate. For example, at 90Hz refresh rate, we should either hit 90Hz or fall down to the half-rate of 45Hz with ATW. This will result in image doubling, but the relative positions of the double images on the retina will be stable. Rendering at an intermediate rate, such as 65Hz, will result in a constantly changing number and position of the images on the retina, which is a worse artifact.

So that was what was informing my thought - that if you are going to lean on ATW for more than just dip smoothing, it should be at a ratio like this (?) In a similar vein, in Sony's GDC talk, they seemed to suggest the options for rendering were 60, 120, or a mix of 60 and 120 depending on varying scene complexity. They didn't seem to suggest, for example, that 75 or 90 could be a good target or some other intermediate between 60 and 120, even if it reduced the warp distance - since other, bigger artifacts may come into play as above?

 

[mrklaw]

It's called ratcheting, and it actually works quite well, as do flight and teleportation.

People need to stop thinking like people. The fact that we're really there doesn't mean we can't be gods.

I guess you need some physical connection with the movement to help avoid feeling strange. So walking in the spot might work. I wonder if you could use foot pedals too, like the rudder pedals you can get with HOTAS setups

 

[serversurfer]

I guess you need some physical connection with the movement to help avoid feeling strange. So walking in the spot might work. I wonder if you could use foot pedals too, like the rudder pedals you can get with HOTAS setups

That's the key, per Marks. He said they set up a rig where the camera was controlled with a Move wand rather than the headset. He said people could violently shake the wand around without getting sick because the camera movement was still being controlled directly by them; it wasn't abstracted in any way. Ratcheting is similarly comfortable because you just grab a chunk of air and pull yourself towards it. With a bit of practice, I bet you could even grab some air at the far end of the hall, or the far end of town.

He says teleportation works well too, and people can even handle flipping 180° to face the opposite direction at the tap of a button.

 

[ZehDon]

Great interview. Interesting that the issue of movement still hasn't been solved completely yet, considering how important its going to be. "Myst in VR" might work for a launch title, but eventually we're going to want to take a walk.

For those who have tried VR, how bad does it feel when moving around with a keyboard?

It'll be big if they PC enable it...

Not going to happen. If the hardware product is de-coupled from their software, the hardware would need to be priced to ensure that its a self-sustaining business. As in, the Morpheus retail unit would need to be pretty expensive, because Sony can't bank on it moving software units, because those units don't work on a PC. Keeping Morpheus PS4-exclusive makes it cheaper, and drives consumer adoption.

 

[mrklaw]

Great interview. Interesting that the issue of movement still hasn't been solved completely yet, considering how important its going to be. "Myst in VR" might work for a launch title, but eventually we're going to want to take a walk.

For those who have tried VR, how bad does it feel when moving around with a keyboard?


Not going to happen. If the hardware product is de-coupled from their software, the hardware would need to be priced to ensure that its a self-sustaining business. As in, the Morpheus retail unit would need to be pretty expensive, because Sony can't bank on it moving software units, because those units don't work on a PC. Keeping Morpheus PS4-exclusive makes it cheaper, and drives consumer adoption.

I've only used DK1, but almost anything other than walking forwards in a straight line was uncomfortable (this was using a wireless 360 pad). Strafing was really horrible.

 

[newjeruse]

Doubtful anything like that would happen for Xbox One.

Microsoft has a completely different, Augmented Reality system in development, (HoloLens) that's intended to become a product within the lifetime of Windows 10. They didn't mention consoles though.

HoloLens isn't expected to be ready earlier than 2018 and by then, the next generation Xbox should probably at least be on the horizon. And Microsoft had job listings last year for their next Xbox. But whether or not HoloLens is intended for PCs, a future Xbox, or both, wasn't made clear.

I'm familiar with Hololens, but even as you state, that's not a console initiative. The gap between PS4 and XB1 is vast. If VR takes off as expected, Microsoft can't afford to be the only option where it's not available. I doubt turning around a new console is their answer either.

What would be the biggest obstacles towards them partnering with Valve/HTC to bringing the Vive to XB1?

 

[serversurfer]

In addition to inhuman locomotion, we can have inhuman perception. Instead of simply looking out through the front of your visor, imagine flipping a switch and looking out through the barrel of your Sharp Shooter instead. Not only can you use it to peek around corners, lining up a shot is as simple as pointing your Gewehrselbst at the target. Now imagine your face is perched on the tip of the gun, but you can still look around freely by turning your head. Now your rifle is a fully articulated periscope, suitable for peeking under doors or out from a storm drain. Now lets add in Detective Vision from Arkham Asylum and some Spidey Sense powered by a ring of rumble motors in the headband.

There is no spoon.

 

[ralexand]

Doubtful anything like that would happen for Xbox One.

Microsoft has a completely different, Augmented Reality system in development, (HoloLens) that's intended to become a product within the lifetime of Windows 10. They didn't mention consoles though.

HoloLens isn't expected to be ready earlier than 2018 and by then, the next generation Xbox should probably at least be on the horizon. And Microsoft had job listings last year for their next Xbox. But whether or not HoloLens is intended for PCs, a future Xbox, or both, wasn't made clear.

So much fud and misinformation in one post. 2018 is laughable. Why would they be talking about developing for it at build in April if they were targeting 2018. This is their vr solution and they are betting on it being more compelling than simple vr. All their first party studios are working on Xbox one games for it. This was mentioned during their gdc presentations.

 

[3rdamention]

Great article.

I seem to recall a developer saying somewhere that one solution to the locomotion issue is to use your hands to sort of pull yourself through the world. I'm not sure how feasible that really is though.

I agree that the 'peripheral begging' is getting out of control. Every Morpheus thread, it seems, gets jammed up with it. I fully expect Morpheus to be incompatible with PC and I'm fine with that. I'll probably end up getting either an Oculus or a HTC, whatever's better (or first).

I still think you could use a Navi Controller in one hand and a Move in the other. Every game doesn't need to have BOTH hands in the virtual world with 2 Move Controllers. I mean, you could have one hand that controls a gun or weapon with a move controller, and your other hand (in the game world) is just an animation when reloading or something.

This setup wouldn't work in every game, but if its some type of heavy action game, it should work. There could also be some cool implementations with the Move Sharpshooter gun accessory, which you snap the navigation controller into, but those are very hard to find now. I would assume Sony could come up with something new.


Or, Maybe if the game uses both Move Controllers, you could hold down a Move Button or a Trigger on one controller to move forward, hold the same button on the other controller to move backwards, and hold both buttons while leaning left or right to strafe left or right.

 

[Liabe Brave]

1080p in VR with a 100degree FoV will be more like 480p or so in terms of an equivalent living room TV resolution. Maybe even slightly less.

You can't say that as a certainty, it depends on the screen size and sitting distance people already use. The bigger the screen and the closer they are, the less reduction in density Morpheus will be.

VR has the resolution spread ALL around your vision. Its a huge FoV.

Neither of these sentences is true about any of the current headsets. And since you also mentioned Morpheus' 100-degree FOV, I'm not sure how you think this is consistent. Are you under the impression that the image fills your visual field, but is only rendered at 100 degrees? That's not the case. The lit pixels only occupy 100 degrees of your vision (up to 110 on Vive). You can see off the sides.