Fredrik
Member
Lol sounds unbearable. You know, if DF did a faceoff between a NES game and Uncharted 3 I'm sure the NES game would win simply because of the framerate. :/
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Digital Foundry: Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Wii U/360/PS3 Face-Off
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
There are NES games with a locked framerate of 30fps?
It was recently put up on PSN.
Well, there goes that advantage!
Definitely not.
And, just like you apparently don't care about framerate, others couldn't give two shits about new features or modes. All I want in my fighting game is vs mode, online, and training mode. Everything else is irrelevant to me.
I really don't understand why people who don't care about the differences between multiple versions of games are posting in this thread.
Really? Remember to me the last launch Tekken title which not run at steady 60 fps on console because I'm confuse. The hardware of WiiU is just weird, even a beat em up now appears expensive O_O
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Definetly I'm baffled about the blur being worse.
Wii U GPU is more powerful...what happened?
Wii U GPU is more powerful...what happened?
cpu happened.
Frame rate and missing graphical effects only matter to tournament players?
The Wii U tends to die on alpha blending, presumably because they have to sort lots of polygons on the CPU.
Anything that can cause a large amount of alpha blending would thus become problematic.
It's been a while since I've done graphics programming, but given that fire and smoke effects do this, I imagine the blur might need alpha blending resolutions as well to look good.
Prime crotch
Banned
You should play bayonetta again to refresh yourself on the shitty framerate fluctuations the game had, in a particular level it almost drops to an halt.
But without a proper cpu, edram can't do everything.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Isn't alpha blending a GPU process? or could be that the actual implementation on current consoles relies on the CPU? Sorry, I'm not a very tech guy.
I thought the geometry in Tag 2 was mostly based on solid geometry.
The horse is just laughing at the bad motion blur, obviously. It's a dudehorse.
AstroNut325
Member
Agreed. But for a game to have missing visual features/fidelity compared to 6/7 year hardware is tough to swallow.
It is, but when it's order dependent, you have to sort the polygons from back to front to determine what order to blend them in (and which need to actually be blended), which is usually done on the CPU.
Now, order independent transparency would mean this wasn't a problem, but I've yet to see anyone implement this or even a GPU based polygon sort on the Wii U, so I'm not sure how feasible it is.
Transparency has actually been a large problem for games for quite some time, which is why you never see see-through glass houses in video games for example.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
This is not some 'snow processing' hw feature - whether the machine can do this or that effect in a given context depends entirely on the context.
OP says the Wii U version maintains 720p resolution longer. If they had just matched the resolution decrease evident in the 360/PS3 versions when there are 4 characters on screen then it's likely they could've maintained 60fps locked.
They knowingly went for image quality over performance, and that seemed like an even trade to them knowing this wouldn't be a tournament system. So I'm not saying it doesn't matter, I'm saying they gave them a clearer picture over perfect fps and that works fine here.
I too agree and think that some people seem to miss that this is the point of Digital Foundry threads, to discuss the differences between versions however small they may be.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Ok, thanks for the explanation.
Yep.
Aren't we talking about the snow on the ground, which looks to be geometry?
In the video, there's snow missing from the air.
Edit: It's around 2:45 in video at the DF link.
Gotcha, I was just looking at the screenshots where the covered ground is more evident.
I would think stuff like controller preference, which version you can play with more of your friends, etc. would make more of a difference for a rational consumer than whether one version drops 2 or 3 frames once every blue moon.
plagiarize
Banned
it should be possible. didn't we see an order dependent transparency demo on the 5870 series? the mecha demo AMD put out did this. I'm not sure that such things are possible on the Wii U's GPU, but they should be based on what I've read. Of course, that doesn't mean that it'd yield superior results, or be easy to implement though.
we're all different. I don't play fighting games online, for example. I love the inference that I'm irrational because I may care more about how a game performs than how many people play it online.
In which sucks because the classic controller and pro controller is much better than any other controller out there for fighting games. (IMO). The dpad and shoulder buttons are more precise and responsive. (This is Tekken, there are more pad players than stick players).
Assuming you meant order independent, AMD did in fact have a DX11 implementation demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zANEUhyT2y8
And here is the presentation on their implementation: https://graphics.stanford.edu/wikis...AttachFile&do=get&target=CS448s-10-11-oit.pdf
Why do you care how different consumers choose which version to buy?
What if I have sticks for every console I own and friends to play on each? Then what? What if I only play locally?
Why are you so judgmental over how others choose to spend their money?
Before or after the patch?
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I was the referring to the ground snow as shown on the screenshots. Whether is 'last gen' effect or not is irrelevant - it's an effect that can or cannot be done in a given context. Tekken devs decided they could not afford it in the WiiU port, ergo it's missing.
Thank you. I think it's normal to want to expect newer hardware to excel over consoles from a previous generation's hardware from 2006 when they're running the same game.
plagiarize
Banned
The AMD demo seems to be ordering the transparencies properly. I'm not really sure why that'd be called order independent, but clearly it is. So, yeah, my mistake.
To be fair, difference between multiple versions don't end with technical aspects, which is the case here.
JordanN
Banned
Assuming you're actually serious (hell, why wouldn't you be?):
But yeah, keep judging the Wii U's hardware off unoptimized launch ports.
Unoptimized based on what? Use this effect in a different scenario not means it could be handled everytime.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
It's called 'order independent' because the translucency depth sorting is done by the GPU, and does not depend on the order in which the drawcalls get issued.
eighty(one)
Member
It was also missing geese, in one of the above comparison shots.
So...it's like the 3DS SSFIV (which I own), where things are sacrificed from the background to maintain reasonable performance?
I expected better than WiiU to underperform against current 6/7 yr old hardware. The additional Nintendo themed things do seem nice, though - making it the dominant version based on content.
XBox360 launched in 2005
Fredrik
Member
I'm sure there are some but I think most games are 60fps.
To back you up, I certainly don't. My 360 is an old model, no warranty...no way am I buying games for that thing if I can help it. Plus I don't want to pay for Live. So to me unless the game is Orange Box or Skyrim scale differences I'll just get the games on PS3. I mean for me personally I can't even tell the difference just looking at the games myself. I'm sure if I played one game, turned it off and put the other version in I wouldn't have a clue about any differences - again unless it was REALLY bad on one system.
I don't need to check digital foundry for that, most reviews sites or GAF will tell you if there is a major difference.
Windom Earle
Member
Assuming you're actually serious (hell, why wouldn't you be?):
But yeah, keep judging the Wii U's hardware off unoptimized launch ports.
It's certainly more reasonable than judging it off tech demos... And who knows on what hardware revision that ran.
WiiU has problems with transparencies, just like the PS3.