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[sleepykyo]

If the characters were completed, they could have just, ya know, kept them in the original roster.




Why exactly are we giving Ninja Theory and Capcom the benefit of the doubt? People keep talking about the DLC model, and I'm sure it's accurate for some companies, but Capcom has a reputation otherwise... see SFxT above.

Actually it isn't giving Capcom the benefit of the doubt. Which one seems more in line with the cynical view?

-Capcom always goes extra mile and this would have been free?
-Capcom never goes the extra mile unless they can charge for it?

In both cases the dlc wouldn't have existed unless Capcom could charge for it.

 

[Dahbomb]

Capcom gonna Capcom. So is this going to be free if ordered from Amazon as I'm buying my GF a copy there and she'd be pretty upset if it wasn't?

No it's only free with Gamestop. You should cancel your preorder from Amazon and preorder from Gamestop if you want Vergil for free.

 

[robotzombie]

No it's only free with Gamestop. You should cancel your preorder from Amazon and preorder from Gamestop if you want Vergil for free.

The best choice would probably be to preorder from newegg with one of their many 15 dollars off coupons and then just buy the DLC, you'd still be saving some money

 

[GuardianE]

Actually it isn't giving Capcom the benefit of the doubt. Which one seems more in line with the cynical view?

-Capcom always goes extra mile and this would have been free?
-Capcom never goes the extra mile unless they can charge for it?

In both cases the dlc wouldn't have existed unless Capcom could charge for it.

I'm actually saying that the "benefit of the doubt" is Capcom actually applying the assembly line logic of DLC planning, allotting a team to DLC and actually working on it mostly while the main game was completed. Thus, Vergil wouldn't have been made without the existence of DLC.

In my mind, it's equally possible that Capcom had it fully completed before release and decided to remove it in order to have it listed as DLC. Vergil was already in the game. Done. And then sliced out. So, he could have been in the game, but DLC ensured his removal. It's the same deal with SFxT.

 

[robotzombie]

I'm actually saying that the "benefit of the doubt" is Capcom actually applying the assembly line logic of DLC planning, allotting a team to DLC and actually working on it mostly while the main game was completed. Thus, Vergil wouldn't have been made without the existence of DLC.

In my mind, it's equally possible that Capcom had it fully completed before release and decided to remove it in order to have it listed as DLC. Vergil was already in the game. Done. And then sliced out. So, he could have been in the game, but DLC ensured his removal. It's the same deal with SFxT.

You have no comprehension whatsoever of how a business actually works. No company, even a bad one, would work in this fashion. Everything is planned out and budgeted beforehand, it has to be. And then it either goes along as planned (which is never) or gets messier from there. But no company would ever start a project without already planning on where all the income is expected to come from and having reasons why they are spending each dollar they spend

 

[GuardianE]

You have no comprehension whatsoever of how a business actually works. No company, even a bad one, would work in this fashion. Everything is planned out and budgeted beforehand, it has to be. And then it either goes along as planned (which is never) or gets messier from there. But no company would ever start a project without already planning on where all the income is expected to come from and having reasons why they are spending each dollar they spend

You're assuming that Capcom makes good business decisions. Capcom is run by fucking morons. Nothing they do surprises me anymore. I'm using SFxT as an example because Capcom pretty much admitted that they didn't know what they were doing with gems and DLC. They were almost making it up as they went along with an enormous disconnect between the development staff, the publisher, the different satellite offices... and in the end, it was a complete disaster because of how transparent their money grab was.

Anyway, you're saying we would never have had Vergil without DLC. That's not how it should be, and with a lot of developers/publishers, that's not how it is. You've just adjusted yourself into thinking it's okay, rationalized it internally. That's fine. I have a lower tolerance for bullshit.

 

[Nyoro SF]

You have no comprehension whatsoever of how a business actually works. No company, even a bad one, would work in this fashion. Everything is planned out and budgeted beforehand, it has to be. And then it either goes along as planned (which is never) or gets messier from there. But no company would ever start a project without already planning on where all the income is expected to come from and having reasons why they are spending each dollar they spend

Huh? Why is cutting out completed content to charge for it later a bad business practice? It's dishonest but it rakes in huge profit.

 

[Weltall Zero]

DMC1 didn't even have aerial combos.... DmC is taking more from DMC3 than any other game especially now that we have playable Vergil.

Aerial combos aren't exactly the most important of DMC3's innovations. But OK, I'll correct my statement; it seems to play exactly the same as a 11-year-old PS2 game, with exactly one innovation from the several that a 7-year-old PS2 game introduced.

The hdd space excuse is the worst rebuttal for keeping it on disc, as you will be installing it ALL onto the hdd anyway on 360.

That might matter to anyone who's buying it for the 360, I guess. Well, to be fair I won't be buying it for the PS3 either, so I guess that's moot...

Still, wait a sec, is it mandatory to install the game on 360 or something?

Finally, why does anyone give a damn whether or not the content is on disc, downloadable, unlock, already completed or whatever? Shouldn't we have developed better metrics to determine if a game is good bang-for-buck or a ripoff, than the release date and logistics of extra content? Like, I don't know, if the game feels complete without it?

 

[robotzombie]

You're assuming that Capcom makes good business decisions. Capcom is run by fucking morons. Nothing they do surprises me anymore. I'm using SFxT as an example because Capcom pretty much admitted that they didn't know what they were doing with gems and DLC. They were almost making it up as they went along... and in the end, it was a complete disaster because of how transparent their money grab was.

Anyway, you're saying we would never have had Vergil without DLC. That's not how it should be, and with a lot of developers/publishers, that's not how it is. You've just adjusted yourself into thinking it's okay, rationalized it internally. That's fine. I have a lower tolerance for bullshit.

It's extremely childish to make the claim that because you think Capcom is shitty and makes bad decisions that somehow despite being a multi-million dollar corporation with investors, CEOs, VPs and business managers, they just decide to let people run rampant spending money making games and then just cut them up later into bits and pieces. It's completely illogical. Businesses like Capcom just don't work that way, no matter how dumb you think they are. And for the record, I think Capcom has been making terrible decisions for years, forcing them to lose all of their talented developers, so I'm not saying things just to defend them. Hell I'm not even defending them, I'm saying they are a crappy corporation that works like any other.

If you have such a low tolerance for bullshit, you should probably try to avoid spouting it.

 

[Elginer]

No it's only free with Gamestop. You should cancel your preorder from Amazon and preorder from Gamestop if you want Vergil for free.

Thanks. Already have my copy paid off at GameStop but had some credit at Amazon and was gonna order her a copy there. That's some crappy business moves by Capcom. :/

 

[Dahbomb]

Aerial combos aren't exactly the most important of DMC3's innovations. But OK, I'll correct my statement; it seems to play exactly the same as a 11-year-old PS2 game, with exactly one innovation from the several that a 7-year-old PS2 game introduced.

Stuff that DmC incorporated from DMC3 which DMC1 didn't have:

*DmC has on the fly weapon swaps. Different inputs but similar application
*More moves for firearms outside of just shooting and charge shooting (Rainstorm, Fireworks etc)
*More mobility options outside of rolling and jumping (Air dashing, teleports)
*Enemy step can cancel air attacks (one of the major differences between DMC1 and DMC3)
*Stinger can be cancelled to Million Stab
*Style ranking system goes up to SSS and decays if you repeat moves. A progress bar is also displayed
*Similar checkpoint system from DMC3SE
*Gauntlet weapons now have a rising uppercut move (Magma Drive in DMC1 had no rising option)
*Multiple characters each with own playstyle/weapons


Probably a lot more stuff that I am missing. I think you need to go back to DMC1 and DMC3 to see how basic DMC1 was in terms of combat options. It prided in its enemy design and trained you to learn enemy patterns where as DMC3 trained you to learn real combos and push the combat system for maximum style efficiency. Style efficiency was irrelevant in DMC1 because as long as you don't get hit you will have a high style rank.

Some standard DmC combos

 

[NoirVisage]

Tameem really knows how to throw oil on a fire, he's a PR nightmare, big eyeball on huge sword and all. -__-

really?

I mean... really? I changed the avatar not 20 minutes ago and you use the avatar card?

Really?

my conspiracy theorem is fast acting, you're obviously a Team Ninja plant, and no rational explanation to the contrary will change my mind *__*

It's extremely childish to make the claim that because you think Capcom is shitty and makes bad decisions that somehow despite being a multi-million dollar corporation with investors, CEOs, VPs and business managers, they just decide to let people run rampant spending money making games and then just cut them up later into bits and pieces. It's completely illogical. Businesses like Capcom just don't work that way, no matter how dumb you think they are. And for the record, I think Capcom has been making terrible decisions for years, forcing them to lose all of their talented developers, so I'm not saying things just to defend them. Hell I'm not even defending them, I'm saying they are a crappy corporation that works like any other.

If you have such a low tolerance for bullshit, you should probably try to avoid spouting it.

you're missing the forest for the trees, but whatev's.

 

[robotzombie]

Tameem really knows how to throw oil on a fire, he's a PR nightmare, big eyeball on huge sword and all. -__-



my conspiracy theorem is fast acting, you're obviously a Team Ninja plant, and no rational explanation to the contrary will change my mind *__*



you're missing the forest for the trees, but whatev's.

Sorry but no. I'm reponding to someone making direct accusations about the "trees", and explaining why that person is incorrect, but whatev's.

 

[[ITA]Wolfgang]

That's what they would like you to think.

The creation of a 3D model character and animating their moves actually doesn't take that much time, especially if you use other skeletons as a base.

It's pretty much a free cash-in on fans of the series. GL

It's not "just" a new character with its animations and complex moveset balancement.

There are also new scenarios, new enemies, for "hours of new gameplay", independently of the character.

 

[Sub_Level]

I hope Ninja Theory is wise enough to give you extra style points for waiting for Vergil to sheath his sword.

And Vergil had better fucking comb his hair back Wesker style too. DMC4 had so many sexy looking moves it was ridiculous.

 

[GuardianE]

It's extremely childish to make the claim that because you think Capcom is shitty and makes bad decisions that somehow despite being a multi-million dollar corporation with investors, CEOs, VPs and business managers, they just decide to let people run rampant spending money making games and then just cut them up later into bits and pieces. It's completely illogical. Businesses like Capcom just don't work that way, no matter how dumb you think they are. And for the record, I think Capcom has been making terrible decisions for years, forcing them to lose all of their talented developers, so I'm not saying things just to defend them. Hell I'm not even defending them, I'm saying they are a crappy corporation that works like any other.

If you have such a low tolerance for bullshit, you should probably try to avoid spouting it.

I'm not willing to concede that Capcom isn't a lost lamb when it comes to development and planning, and you simply cannot prove otherwise. Your points are conjecture, just like mine are, except I have examples.

You do know that Lost Planet and Dead Rising were originally rejected concepts, right? Inafune decided to keep spending dollars secretly on the projects. Eventually, the project was pretty much almost completed, so the games were released. Whoops. Looks like at least one individual was allowed to "run rampant" with money. Sure, this is an extreme circumstance, but it only serves to illustrate the severe disconnect between the different departments of the company. It is less than ideally managed. At the time of release for those two titles, DLC was a fledgling concept, but I guarantee that if it were today they would have chopped up those games for DLC purposes.

So, no. I don't agree with you. Capcom is not just like "any other" corporation. Corporations run differently. Especially in the case of Capcom, there's a huge problem of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

 

[NoirVisage]

Sorry but no. I'm reponding to someone making direct accusations about the "trees", and explaining why that person is incorrect, but whatev's.

and your response misses the point entirely.

 

[robotzombie]

and your response misses the point entirely.

No, your randomly injected cliched statement did.

 

[Dahbomb]

Probably old news but I noticed that in the HUD on the top left Dante's eyes glow a different color depending upon your current form (red for demon, blue for angel etc).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpFQ2bfrQNA&feature=g-vrec

 

[Sora_N]

I remember when you didn't have to pay to unlock stuff like this.

 

[Data West]

I remember when you didn't have to pay to unlock stuff like this.

really? i don't.

 

[rvy]

Probably old news but I noticed that in the HUD on the top left Dante's eyes glow a different color depending upon your current form (red for demon, blue for angel etc).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpFQ2bfrQNA&feature=g-vrec

And what's your opinion on it?

 

[GuardianE]

really? i don't.

Hm? You mean added free for Greatest Hits versions of the game?

 

[Dahbomb]

And what's your opinion on it?

It's cool I guess?

 

[jett]

Hm? You mean added free for Greatest Hits versions of the game?

 

[Hellion]

I remember when he was an unlockable.

Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[QisTopTier]

Hm? You mean added free for Greatest Hits versions of the game?

 

[-tetsuo-]

Hm? You mean added free for Greatest Hits versions of the game?

I'm not sure that is what free is.

 

[ezekial45]

Hm? You mean added free for Greatest Hits versions of the game?

Dude. Come on, man.

 

[Acquiescence]

really? i don't.

I recall someone saying that this game sold below expectations. It's no fucking wonder with a front cover like that! Why didn't they have him stick a finger in his mouth while winking knowingly to make it look even more homoerotic.

 

[Dahbomb]

I recall someone saying that this game sold below expectations. It's no fucking wonder with a front cover like that! Why didn't they have him stick a finger in his mouth while winking knowingly to make it look even more homoerotic.

I feel like I am in 2005-2006 all over again. Also the SE had better covers in PAL and Japan.

In any case the whole DMC3 -> DMC3SE is a slippery slope. Back in the PS2 era a lot of games of this caliber got the Greatest Hits tag. There were a few games that actually added some stuff to the greatest hits version without increasing cost (GH games were all $20 in USA, DMC3SE was no exception). The standouts included VF4:E and Midnight Club 3: Dub edition. There were no online updates, DLC or stuff like that... the only way to support your game past the initial release was through disc based expansion or best case scenario you added content in the GH version.

It was either we got Vergil, better checkpoint system, Bloody Palace and Turbo mode... or we didn't. There was no alternative to it back then.

 

[QisTopTier]

Dante looks like he needs some sleep here. That or lay off the drugs... OH HEY!

 

[GuardianE]

Eh, all I know is that for newcomers, the content was free and at a bargain price. I didn't pick up DMC3 right away because of the disappointment that was DMC2. I ended up borrowing DMC3 from a friend a number of months down the line, played a few levels, fell in love, then went out to purchase the game Special Edition. It was $20 for the full game with all the bonus content. It effectively replaced all retail copies of DMC3. I couldn't find the original DMC3 anywhere locally, even if I wanted to (I actually did. I went ahead and purchased a sealed copy for my collection).

It was free for me, and anyone who picked up the game during that time. It was also content developed well after the initial release.

 

[sleepykyo]

Eh, all I know is that for newcomers, the content was free and at a bargain price. I didn't pick up DMC3 right away because of the disappointment that was DMC2. I ended up borrowing DMC3 from a friend a number of months down the line, played a few levels, fell in love, then went out to purchase the game Special Edition. It was $20 for the full game with all the bonus content. It effectively replaced retail copies of DMC3.

That is a lot spin.

 

[IC_Champion]

After repurchasing the special edition of the game, maybe.

You're right on that one.

 

[GuardianE]

That is a lot spin.

Take it how you will.

Even if you want to compare the Special Edition to a Ninja Gaiden Black re-release (which it wasn't because Ninja Gaiden Black was full price or $40, don't remember which), it's a very different scenario to pre-release developed DLC.

 

[Dahbomb]

I still have the OG DMC3 copy. I don't have a PS2 but I still have that legendary game.

That was pretty much the last time until the Dark/Demon Souls we got a soul crushingly difficult game. That feel when you first beat Cerberus, A&R and Vergil 3 for the first time in Vanilla DMC3... unparalleled. Also back then Youtube game videos weren't that common and a lot of people didn't have video cards so you couldn't see boss takedown strats especially like week 1 of the game. I had to tackle A&R over 15 times then I went on message forums and spread the strategy to beat them.

 

[QisTopTier]

I still have the OG DMC3 copy. I don't have a PS2 but I still have that legendary game.

That was pretty much the last time until the Dark/Demon Souls we got a soul crushingly difficult game. That feel when you first beat Cerberus, A&R and Vergil 3 for the first time... unparalleled. Also back then Youtube game videos weren't that common and a lot of people didn't have video cards so you couldn't see boss takedown strats especially like week 1 of the game. I had to tackle A&R over 15 times then I went on message forums and spread the strategy to beat them.

I got mine too I actually don't have the special edition so I dont know shit about virgil's gameplay really. Didn't want to buy the same game twice back in the day as my budget was horrible.

 

[Acquiescence]

Dante looks like he needs some sleep here. That or lay off the drugs... OH HEY!

Sleep-deprived or not, that is an awesome image whereas the other two are woeful. It's funny how Japan always get the best cover art for their games.

 

[GuardianE]

I still have the OG DMC3 copy. I don't have a PS2 but I still have that legendary game.

That was pretty much the last time until the Dark/Demon Souls we got a soul crushingly difficult game. That feel when you first beat Cerberus, A&R and Vergil 3 for the first time in Vanilla DMC3... unparalleled. Also back then Youtube game videos weren't that common and a lot of people didn't have video cards so you couldn't see boss takedown strats especially like week 1 of the game. I had to tackle A&R over 15 times then I went on message forums and spread the strategy to beat them.

It was a beautiful time, man. Like I said, I played it at a friend's apartment. He showed it to me because he was having trouble fighting Agni and Rudra. We looked up some strategies on GameFAQs, and I beat the bossfight a little later.

He let me borrow the game for a bit and the rest is history.

The Special Edition didn't have the same difficulty levels as the OG copy, and so I started my game on Hard. And because I was such a fan of the original difficulty settings, I went ahead and bought a sealed copy online.

 

[Dahbomb]

I got mine too I actually don't have the special edition so I dont know shit about virgil's gameplay really. Didn't want to buy the same game twice back in the day as my budget was horrible.

A lot of interesting mechanics were introduced with Vergil's game play. He could swap seamlessly among 3 weapons because one button swapped forward and the other swapped backwards (it felt really off when you first played around with it but once you put more time in it clicked). He had the different types of teleports and basically if you were good with teleports you never needed to roll. The Judgment Cut moves had interesting properties... along with being a 3 fold tracking move it had "armor breaking" properties on DT'd enemies making Vergil very effective in DMD mode. Vergil could hold his stances to gain DT ... very powerful for DT run and after which they incorporated timers in DMC4 so that you couldn't scam the mechanics like that. If you allowed Vergil to follow through on his long ass recovery on his Yamato moves you were rewarded with more style points when he completely sheathed his swords. His Spiral Swords formations were also fun but used up DT so you had to manage your meter properly. Being able to shoot swords whenever was broke though.

The best part about Vergil was his Nelo Angelo secret costume which remapped his movelist in DT mode to match moves he did in DMC1. It was 200% broken and fucking awesome. I was woeful when they didn't put the Nelo Angelo costume as Vergil's alt DT in UMVC3.

We looked up some strategies on GameFAQs, and I beat the bossfight a little later.

Those strategies were stolen from IGN. Real talk. Although in the end us guys at IGN ended up stealing more tech from Gamefaqs. A lot of people had made it further in the game and they were the ones who discovered the power of Royal Guard first especially against Vergil. I was a wuss back then and used Trickster against Vergil, didn't have the reflexes to dodge his moves in time.

 

[IC_Champion]

I gotta admit, it's smart on Capcom's part. Play as Virgil free, you have to buy the main game. Don't like the main game? Pay 7.99 for it (DLC).

Capcom are one of the few JP Devs, if not the only one, staying afloat using this practice. Unfortunately, it's not going to stop.

 

[Dahbomb]

This is officially the 3rd time that Capcom has "milked" the Vergil fanbase.

DMC3 -> DMC3SE

MVC3 -> UMVC3

DmC -> DmC DLC

I bet we are going to be playing DMC9 in the distant future and still have to pay extra for Vergil.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

I gotta admit, it's smart on Capcom's part. Play as Virgil free, you have to buy the main game. Don't like the main game? Pay 7.99 for it (DLC).

Capcom are one of the few JP Devs, if not the only one, staying afloat using this practice. Unfortunately, it's not going to stop.

It does seem like a bit catch-22...development cost has killed a lot of studios this generation.

 

[IC_Champion]

It does seem like a bit catch-22...development cost has killed a lot of studios this generation.

Exactly.

 

[Acrylic7]

lol
I wish people stopped supporting company's like this.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

This is officially the 3rd time that Capcom has "milked" the Vergil fanbase.

DMC3 -> DMC3SE

MVC3 -> UMVC3

DmC -> DmC DLC

I bet we are going to be playing DMC9 in the distant future and still have to pay extra for Vergil.

I don't get why anyone would even give a crap about this Vergil when he isn't even the same fucking character.

 

[Gbraga]

I don't get why anyone would even give a crap about this Vergil when he isn't even the same fucking character.

Because his gameplay looks good. If it was just a skin for Dante I think most people wouldn't care.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't get why anyone would even give a crap about this Vergil when he isn't even the same fucking character.

Well for one the game play is looking solid and interesting. If they manage to give Vergil more weapons than just the Yamato this new Vergil might trump DMC3 Vergil in terms of options.

Secondly this is a portion of the DMC canon which actually has not been explored before. Playing Vergil while he is in hell is something that I always wanted to do ever since the secret ending of DMC3. He probably won't get to fight Mundus at the end of this DLC (or maybe he will) but maybe he gets to find Nelo Angelo (or not, we'll see).

The environments also look nice and is what I expect from end stage DMC games (freakish, hellish stage designs). We also don't know how Vergil's character will pan out in this game, maybe he gets fleshed out as a solid, bad ass villain.

It looks like a very solid DLC and of course it would be godly if this was available from the start but standalone it's a nice addition to the game. Best of all, it doesn't seem like you are retreading the same stages like you did in DMC3SE.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

lol
I wish people stopped supporting company's like this.

You mean companies that release DLC? Damn, you must have a lot of game companies on your blacklist.

You got companies with 60 + dollar season passes for their games.. Online multiplayer unlock codes and weapon packs. Or separated off content that is part of an overly priced "collector's edition" - just because it's not called DLC makes it ok? And don't kid yourself - the DLC you see being released for games within the first few months of release were probably being worked and maybe even completed before the packaged games release. Capcom unfortunately is the only one that is dumb enough to actually 'announce' DLC before the game's release. But it's really all the same shit.