THE WHEELS OF JUSTICE WORK SLOWLY...AND SO DO I!
*lightning*
Batman doesn't really work as he is now anyway. He indirectly killed many people just by letting the joker live, let alone every other villain.
To be fair, that describes many rich white guys.Then what drives him?
Hey I am rich white guy using the least efficient way I have at my disposal to change shit.
Hah! Daredevil didn't see that comingThat would have meant more if Daredevil's own father wasn't killed by the mob.
Not much more to the topic than that. In order for Batman to work as a character, do his parents need to be killed? Does he really need that function of his origin story, if any origin story at all? Can a Batman exist in a new universe with little/no back story as to why he's Batman and work?
I've been thinking about that recently and, well... I just feel like it's an unnecessary component at this point. BvS for example ham fisted it into the story, and look what it got us: Martha and a dumb weird scene where Batman ascends a well being picked up by bats.
There's a lot more to Batman that is almost never explored. It's weird that, in what has been a decade-plus of some of the best Batman comics ever written (Morrison run, Snyder run), in other media we're still getting warmed-over takes on the Miller books.
If I see a string of pearls snapping in slow motion one more goddamn time...
Yes you can, shut upYou mean you can't change the world with a flashlight that has a fan function?
I mean, if we're being honest, Thomas Wayne becoming Batman makes more sense. In that regard, I think the Flashpoint story makes more sense. He's a guy who's tried all other avenues out in the open, loses his son, then goes vigilante.
Yes. However, it doesn't need to be brought up in every Batman story ever told, and it doesn't need to be presented as the only relatable humanizing aspect of Bruce's character in how he identifies with others.
Wasn't there an alternate universe where Bruce Wayne is the one shot in the alley and his mom becomes the Joker?
This isn't a constant at all though right?Does the Joker need to be thrown in a pool of Chemicals as backstory too?
Yes you can, shut up
Yes, it's essential. It's what has made him fight crime indefinitely. Nothing else than his parents' death would make him "snap" like that and become Batman.
Well they still got mugged and Bruce still "learned what death was".
Tortured loner who has like six kids and a huge supporting cast.People say this, but honestly Batman doesn't "snap." Dude is (despite what the memes say) lawful good. A methodical genius bent on always doing what is right and following a strict code. To me, his behavior is actually at odds with his origin.
Batman could be motivated by the same stuff that motivates Tony Stark and I think it'd play just fine.
Or is the idea that his parents' is death necessary to justify his grim/dark persona as a tortured loner?
Tortured loner who has like six kids and a huge supporting cast.
I think some sort of (childhood) trauma is important to the character and themes of the story. Like you said, Bruce doesn't snap. That's the point. You can suffer traumatic events and have them fuel you to do good. (As opposed to his villains who experience trauma and then harm others.)
Know who has the best origin? Mr. Terrfic
He got tired of being good at everything, and decided to take on crime fighting. His superpower is pretty much white privilege
You could make it work without his parents dying. I've always viewed their murder as being an extremely traumatic experience that opened his eyes to how broken Gotham is. Even if they're just shot and hospitalized, that could be a wakeup call to a young Bruce. Throw in a little family obligation in there too. That the Wayne family has always been a force for change in Gotham and Batman is Bruce's attempt at keeping that legacy going.
Yeah that part was physically impossible.
zzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzSince Batman is not real, his origin story can be whatever anyone wants. So yes, they can live.
Since Batman is not real, his origin story can be whatever anyone wants. So yes, they can live.
So...iron man?Then what drives him?
Hey I am rich white guy using the least efficient way I have at my disposal to change shit.
People say this, but honestly Batman doesn't "snap." Dude is (despite what the memes say) lawful good. A methodical genius bent on always doing what is right and following a strict code. To me, his behavior is actually at odds with his origin. He is NOT driven by vengeance. He is NOT driven by mental instability. He is a goody goody with a ninja suit.
Batman could be motivated by the same stuff that motivates Tony Stark and I think it'd play just fine. Or he could be a cop working around a corrupt system and leading a double life. Or he could be a guy who sold his soul to save his parents and now seeks to redeem himself. Or he could be the ghost of a dead hero. He could be anything. He is a cypher. It's not like he is a three dimensional character in most portrayals really.
Or is the idea that his parents' is death necessary to justify his grim/dark persona as a tortured loner?
So...iron man?
There should be a vigilante superhero in comics who roughs up thugs a little, ties up their legs, and leaves them with a pen and job application form. Oh, and who kills everyone he sees a second time.
He'd be more effective than Batman.
I think the disconnect with batman is not that he's a vigilante, but that he is a billionaire, he could use his money to improve conditions in gotham and he could be more effective that way, but no, he dresses as a bat and punches criminals and mentally ill people.
Your suggestion is basically a soft version of the punisher.
They should make more comics about of Flashpoint Batman. That was a really interesting story, but even the focus comic on him didn't really go deep into it.
Penguin is his Alfred, Martha is the Joker and Cat Woman is Oracle. And the Joker has her own Harley Quin type side kick, but an entirely different person. There's a lot of interesting alternate reality stories there they could write. I wanted to see where the rest of Batman's foes ended up (although I guess we do get some of that, since Clayface is a pirate).
Question is about his motivation, not his opponents.Trauma is the key, having his parents murdered in front of him traumatized him, you don't need to kill his parents, but you'd need another source of trauma.
Technically speaking, Iron man is more effective than batman, batman's rogues are usually low lives, mobsters, murderers and such, yeah he has a few metahuman rogues, but batman's main thing is regular crime and organized crime.
Iron man's enemies usually are guys with super powers or tech that can only be beaten by stark tech,
My problem with the backstory is that it doesn't make any sense.
Like, he sees his parents get shot and killed in an alley and bats were involved. He then proceeds to do nothing of any real note for most of his childhood, before pitzing around for a couple years. Then he comes back and he's Batman now.
Is he a tortured soul? Sometimes, but not really. Is he a loner? Not really, he's got the bat family and rarely gives off the vibe that he's actively pushing people away outside of the batman persona. Is he psycho or a broken man? No, he borders on Superman levels of moral fortitude and mental discipline and functions pretty well in society. His backstory "works" because it has elements that you can bluntly tie to Batman (the persona), but it doesn't logically make sense in terms of how he became who he is nor does it accurately describe the vast majority of his portrayals. It's a tragic past that doesn't actually make sense even by (modern) comic book standards, but we buy it because it's tragic.
It's not even that hard to fix his origin story. Make it so that instead of fucking around after their deaths, he gets involved and pushes further with the community outreach/philanthropy because he now knows the importance of his parents work. Have some other smaller traumas that actually relate to and lead up to him creating the persona of Batman, then pull a Mat Murdoc and have something make him realize that his philanthropy work can't fix all Gotham's problems etc... Keep the whole fear of bats thing, but he got over it early on (because he might as well be over it as he is currently), and uses it as a driving motivator for his , it's relationship to his parents death being emblematic of why he can't give up on Gotham a.k.a why he made the persona based around bats.
Boom, him becoming batman has a logical through line and he's not just fucking around for 15-20 years. Bruce Wayne not being a psycho in most iterations makes sense with the character because you have a non-crazy route to get there, but you still have room for it if the writer wants mentally unhinged Batman.