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[ryushe]

You know what's funny, as I was playing through Sunset Overdrive, I thought to myself that Sonic would fit that kind of open world, trick based type of game and immediately got excited at the thought of Insomniac developing a new Sonic game.

 

[JCX]

InFamous SS' Neon power reminded me of what fun an open world sonic game could be.

 

[muteki]

If you want to have 3d and the speed of the originals and it not be on rails/narrow path/pipe, it then becomes a graphical problem first and a a level design problem second. The graphics would have to be simplified to a point that no marketing team would sign off on it, and level design is not one of sonic team's strong points.

 

[Sciz]

I'mma need an reference for this argument.

Hazard design is nearly impossible at boost speeds, for one.

 

[cacildo]

YES

just make a big open world, so sonic can run a lot

And just put the same style of lame missions open world games are used to: go from point A to point B, go there, fight this guy, go back

Add Donkey Kong 64 level of collectibles

And there you have it: probably the best 3d sonic ever, and nobody had to even think too much

 

[Teletraan1]

IReally? By your logic Nintendo should have stuck Mario to kart racers too, because Nintendo had to re-work nearly everything about Mario to make it work in 3D: movement speed, moveset, intertia. Mario gained punches and kicks (because landing jumps in 3D was much harder), gained an easily replenishable health bar (because moving in 3D was harder and the two-hit big/small mechanic was too unforgiving), lost the fire flower (because shooting things in 3D was harder), lost the invisible blocks, the level design was radically different. It took Nintendo 9 years to figure out how to implement some of the classic Mario elements in 3D (like the red mushroom health system and getting rid of the karate moves), and it came at the cost of making the games "less" 3D.

Mario gameplay is not a short sighted gimmick to show that your CPU is better than the competitor. The original Sonic games were based on speed and the levels only worked when they had a good flow to them and as I said they often relied on sections where you were auto zipping around tubes and loops for some kind of a wow factor. While Mario had some troubles adapting everything from 2D to 3D properly they eventually got there because everything is more relatable from 2D to 3D, Sonic has been a complete wash in its transition to 3D because the original conceit of the gameplay was shallow at best. The only good Sonic games since the sega CD have been the Kart games. The rest have been absolute trash.

 

[thewhitehawk]

I think a Sonic game could definitely work in a more open level design but it would be much more expensive to design because by the nature of his character, he can run very fast and traverse large distances in a short period of time, meaning that the levels would need to be very big to take advantage of his speed and momentum.

In my opinion, the direction they took with Sonic Lost World was really good and if the game had put a bit more care into the level design of the later stages and made more of them like the initial ones it would have been a much better received game. But the decision to have Sonic be placed on "rails" like axis' during his runs allowed them to capture some of the things that made Sonic great in the classic games without sacrificing part of what people enjoy in the 3D ones.

What I'd like to see them do in the next game would be to take Lost World's mechanics, refine the gameplay a bit, make better levels and remove the gimmicky powerups. I know all of those are unlikely, but if I had any say in the matter, that's the direction I would take.

It's funny that with Sonic Xtreme, Sega was onto a formula that while awkward to think of/look at, even now, they accidentally discovered the type of design that would work best for the franchise in 3D.

 

[Maedhros]

No.

It wouldn't work.

People wanting to play the Sonic Boom opening are kidding themselves. Sorry guys, but it wouldn't work. It would be a walking/running simulator. A bad one even.

 

[Arc Christelle]

I think a Sonic game could definitely work in a more open level design but it would be much more expensive to design because by the nature of his character, he can run very fast and traverse large distances in a short period of time, meaning that the levels would need to be very big to take advantage of his speed and momentum.

In my opinion, the direction they took with Sonic Lost World was really good and if the game had put a bit more care into the level design of the later stages and made more of them like the initial ones it would have been a much better received game. But the decision to have Sonic be placed on "rails" like axis' during his runs allowed them to capture some of the things that made Sonic great in the classic games without sacrificing part of what people enjoy in the 3D ones.

What I'd like to see them do in the next game would be to take Lost World's mechanics, refine the gameplay a bit, make better levels and remove the gimmicky powerups. I know all of those are unlikely, but if I had any say in the matter, that's the direction I would take.

It's funny that with Sonic Xtreme, Sega was onto a formula that while awkward to think of/look at, even now, they accidentally discovered the type of design that would work best for the franchise in 3D.

I never understood why some people thought that Sonic Xtreme's concept works.

Willing to listen though.

@Sciz, I didn't. understand what you meant either.

 

[Arc Christelle]

No.

It wouldn't work.

People wanting to play the Sonic Boom opening are kidding themselves. Sorry guys, but it wouldn't work. It would be a walking/running simulator. A bad one even.

I wouldn't say this either although there is some truth to the statement but I assume the biggest flaw of this desire, is that you will have to design it to be fun to play, not just nice to look at, and that would be complex as fuck to design.

 

[thewhitehawk]

I never understood why some people thought that Sonic Xtreme's concept works.

Willing to listen though.

In Sonic Xtreme Sonic's movement was based around two axis, and Sonic moved basically like a "Tower" on chess. This allows level designers to put most of the same challenging sections they did on the 2D games without compromising on the difficulty of the level designs.

When a 3D Sonic game is made where he has full 3D movement capability the designers have to compromise the level design and make everything easier with larger platforms, less platforming gaps, targeting reticules, etc, instead of basing the design and gameplay off of what made the original Sonic games good in the first place, which was the rewarding momentum-based platforming.

Sonic Lost World borrowed the concept of Sonic Xtreme, minus the fisheye lens, and as a result it allowed the designers to make levels with differing levels of difficulty and traversal paths and a much better control of Sonic despite his ability to still reach very high speeds.

It lowered the difficulty to control Sonic properly while maintaining the very high ceiling of skill the 3D Sonic games had due to how unwieldy he could be at high speeds and how some of the levels were designed.

Unfortunately, like with most Sonic games, it seems Sega can't take a step forward without taking a few steps back and Sonic Lost World is filled with parts of games from previous 3D Sonic games that do very little to build upon the formula.

While there are levels that fully embrace the new type of design, there are 2D sections that play worse than 2D Sonic games because Sonic still has his aiming attack, which was meant to facilitate 3D combat, and he lacks the momentum buildup in ramps that he had in the first 3 games and the expansion.

It also maintains some of the powerups from Sonic Colors which were at best just gimmicky. In my opinion Sega should make powerups that are more similar to the ones in Sonic 3 like the Bubble Shield and the Flame Shield and iterate upon them with clever obstacles.

When Sonic Lost World embraces its new mechanic it becomes an experience almost as engrossing as Super Mario Galaxy, but when it doesn't, it just feels like a slightly more refined version of the, mostly, mediocre 3D Sonic games of the past.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

Mario now Sonics better than Sonic. Come on Sega,

Sonic developers could learn a lot from Mario 3D World.

That's pretty much what I first thought when I was playing those kinds of stages in 3D Mario.
They may not be as fast as unleashed/colors/Generations, but as another poster has already stated, Sonic doesn't NEED to go really fast. It's a platforming game, make a platformer first.

The sense of speed in those three Mario levels that I linked to is great (imo), and many of the platforming/movement-based obstacles are adequately designed to accommodate a fast moving 3D character. If EAD Tokyo wanted to, they could take all three of the concepts in those videos and basically make a whole game out of them; they're very, very well-designed mechanics and level designs.

 

[The Boat]

I haven't seen a single Sonic game where "open" lead to good levels. In Sonic CD and the recent Sonics, they just put way too many alternate paths with no distinguing characteristic or subtle hint which makes exploring levels fully nothing more than the act of trying to memorize everything/reading a guide.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I just want to be able to PLAY this. Is that too much to ask goddamnit?

Imagine these fields below are your playground. Mother of God, Sonic would be saved.

Gimmie.

Go anywhere. Tricks build momentum. Chain Parkour moves to reach untold speeds.

Ignore this silly pseudo Sonic Xtreme pipe levels nonsense. The real stage is below all that in the background. Imaging if you could go anywhere on that background.

THIS.

Thats why its a damn shame when you see fan-made projects.. Sega! copy this format a little and expand!

http://youtu.be/jimWGmp7XTU

 

[RobFox64tm]

Sonic needs to do all these things to get back to his former glory:

-Go back to the original Sonic design (from Generations)
-Keep Sonic out of the real world and in the imaginative environments like those from the Genesis days.
-Keep the bad guys as simple badniks with cute animals inside (these last two points are some of the things Lost World did right).
-Gameplay should be strictly on a 2D plane, with some dynamic camera angles thrown in when appropriate.
-The story shouldn't be any more complicated than Sonic saving his animal buddies from Robotniks evil plans.
-The soundtrack should consist of mostly instrumental pieces and vocals should be kept to a very minimum.
-The focus should be on speedrunning the levels, but those who chose to take it slower should be rewarded for doing so.
-DON'T RELEASE THE GAME UNTIL IT IS READY!

So, basically, Sonic needs to go back to his 2D roots, while using new technology to add to the experience. The DKC Returns games are a good place to get inspiration, as they demonstrate best how to make old new again, while maintaining the quality and charm from the original source material.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Sonic needs to do all these things to get back to his former glory:

-Go back to the original Sonic design (from Generations)
-Keep Sonic out of the real world and in the imaginative environments like those from the Genesis days.
-Keep the bad guys as simple badniks with cute animals inside (these last two points are some of the things Lost World did right).
-Gameplay should be strictly on a 2D plane, with some dynamic camera angles thrown in when appropriate.
-The story shouldn't be any more complicated than Sonic saving his animal buddies from Robotniks evil plans.
-The soundtrack should consist of mostly instrumental pieces and vocals should be kept to a very minimum.
-The focus should be on speedrunning the levels, but those who chose to take it slower should be rewarded for doing so.
-DON'T RELEASE THE GAME UNTIL IT IS READY!

So, basically, Sonic needs to go back to his 2D roots, while using new technology to add to the experience. The DKC Returns games are a good place to get inspiration, as they demonstrate best how to make old new again, while maintaining the quality and charm from the original source material.

Sonic has always been in the real world though

 

[RobFox64tm]

Sonic has always been in the real world though

Have you ever played a Sonic game pre Adventure? Even if on paper he was in the "real world," that's not what you had seen in the games. A lot of thought went into the looks of those levels, and they had a creative visual style that, quite frankly, was unmatched at the time. Sonic running through city streets and generic canyons is not how it was meant to be.

 

[jimi_dini]

http://youtu.be/dte7KJ_F5b8

Well that's better than Sonic 2006.

 

[Arc Christelle]

If Sonic was open world, how would the adventure be presented? How will objectives be cleared?

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

No, Sonic could be better if they found some competent developers who knew what the Hell they were doing and actually gave them a budget and time to work with.

 

[weekev]

I wish Sega would collaborate with Nintendo EAD and do a sequel to Lost World but do it properly.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Have you ever played a Sonic game pre Adventure? Even if on paper he was in the "real world," that's not what you had seen in the games. A lot of thought went into the looks of those levels, and they had a creative visual style that, quite frankly, was unmatched at the time. Sonic running through city streets and generic canyons is not how it was meant to be.

Have you?? I have been playing sonic since sonic the hedgehog on genesis... He always was in the real world. The transition to 3D changed art somewhat but the game and setting remains the same. The backgrounds of older sonic games give it away. In city levels you will see sky scrapers and tall buildings, city lights.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I think they need to be a bit more tight-knit, like 3D World.

Lost World is pretty fun, but the best stages are the ones that are easier to tell where you're going, and a bit shorter. Some of the longer, more open ones just get confusing, and likewise, in Generations, I like the more straightforward earlier levels compared to mazes like Planet Wisp. Even in Classic Sonic, looking back I like Sonic 2's more linear levels, as opposed to some of the levels in Sonic 3 which are just confusing to navigate for me.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I actually think an open free running based Sonic game could be really awesome if done right. Run around an open environment, explore, build momentum and do tricks to gain and keep speed while doing platforming challenges. There's a lot of potential for a Sonic game like that, but it would need to be done right and we all know what happens when Sonic Team try experimenting with new gameplay.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Have you ever played a Sonic game pre Adventure? Even if on paper he was in the "real world," that's not what you had seen in the games. A lot of thought went into the looks of those levels, and they had a creative visual style that, quite frankly, was unmatched at the time. Sonic running through city streets and generic canyons is not how it was meant to be.

Just look at this creative totally not generic city.

And if you ask me, Colors matched, if not exceeded the creativity in art direction and design from the original games.

Arguably, art direction has remained one of Sonic Team's most consistent qualities, next to music.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Arguably, art direction has remained one of Sonic Team's most consistent qualities, next to music.

Nah man it went straight to garbage after the Genesis days. Worst part about new Sonic Team with all this rad and tude.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

If Sonic was open world, how would the adventure be presented? How will objectives be cleared?

Simple. Have various collectibles to find in each open stage. Explore the stage and do various chellenges to gain access to some sort of collectible. When you collect enough it opens up a door in the level leading to a boss fight or special stage. Beat that to progress to the next open stage.

 

[RobFox64tm]

Have you?? I have been playing sonic since sonic the hedgehog on genesis... He always was in the real world. The transition to 3D changed art somewhat but the game and setting remains the same. The backgrounds of older sonic games give it away. In city levels you will see sky scrapers and tall buildings, city lights.

Yes, because I see a lot of orange checkered sedimentation and angular Palm trees out there in the real world. Having some cities is fine, but in the Genesis days they were much less the focus than they are in modern Sonic games. The Sonic Colors example above is more in line with what Sega should be doing more of, actually. Lost World was also a step in the right direction, although I feel the style borrowed far too much from Mario Galaxy in that case. This seems to be less of a problem now than it was in the early to mid 2000s, but the Sonic series has much bigger issues to deal with anyway.

 

[thiagosimoes]

I loved Sonic Jam on Saturn. They nailed an 3D open environment with lots of tasks within for the time. Probably the best example of Sonic working in 3d out there.

http://youtu.be/hs-iBAeNZKk

I came here to say that. I wish a full game could have come out of that.

 

[RobFox64tm]

Just look at this creative totally not generic city.

And if you ask me, Colors matched, if not exceeded the creativity in art direction and design from the original games.



Arguably, art direction has remained one of Sonic Team's most consistent qualities, next to music.

The creativity in that stage came from what was happening in the foreground; hardly a generic city stage like those found in SA2 and/or 2006. Sonic's world has always had cities, but they were surrounded by a much more interesting, broader world.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Simple. Have various collectibles to find in each open stage. Explore the stage and do various chellenges to gain access to some sort of collectible. When you collect enough it opens up a door in the level leading to a boss fight or special stage. Beat that to progress to the next open stage.

What kind of challenges? How will these collectables be fun to collect? Is this the only way areas will be accessed? What makes this different from any generic platformer?

The creativity in that stage came from what was happening in the foreground; hardly a generic city stage like those found in SA2 and/or 2006. Sonic's world has always had cities, but they were surrounded by a much more interesting, broader world.

Subjectivity at its finest.

In Sonic Xtreme Sonic's movement was based around two axis, and Sonic moved basically like a "Tower" on chess. This allows level designers to put most of the same challenging sections they did on the 2D games without compromising on the difficulty of the level designs.

When a 3D Sonic game is made where he has full 3D movement capability the designers have to compromise the level design and make everything easier with larger platforms, less platforming gaps, targeting reticules, etc, instead of basing the design and gameplay off of what made the original Sonic games good in the first place, which was the rewarding momentum-based platforming.

Sonic Lost World borrowed the concept of Sonic Xtreme, minus the fisheye lens, and as a result it allowed the designers to make levels with differing levels of difficulty and traversal paths and a much better control of Sonic despite his ability to still reach very high speeds.

It lowered the difficulty to control Sonic properly while maintaining the very high ceiling of skill the 3D Sonic games had due to how unwieldy he could be at high speeds and how some of the levels were designed.

Unfortunately, like with most Sonic games, it seems Sega can't take a step forward without taking a few steps back and Sonic Lost World is filled with parts of games from previous 3D Sonic games that do very little to build upon the formula.

While there are levels that fully embrace the new type of design, there are 2D sections that play worse than 2D Sonic games because Sonic still has his aiming attack, which was meant to facilitate 3D combat, and he lacks the momentum buildup in ramps that he had in the first 3 games and the expansion.

It also maintains some of the powerups from Sonic Colors which were at best just gimmicky. In my opinion Sega should make powerups that are more similar to the ones in Sonic 3 like the Bubble Shield and the Flame Shield and iterate upon them with clever obstacles.

When Sonic Lost World embraces its new mechanic it becomes an experience almost as engrossing as Super Mario Galaxy, but when it doesn't, it just feels like a slightly more refined version of the, mostly, mediocre 3D Sonic games of the past.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying the way to make a 3D Sonic game is basically backtrack to 2D with an optional 3rd axis?

 

[hodgy100]

I'm not sure how an open open world sonic game would really work. I get the feeling you would end up with large empty areas where there is very little gameplay that actually takes place.and to introduce fun gameplay you need to place lots of motif's which then has the problem of cluttering the game world making it difficult to traverse. I could see an "open world" done as a series of paths connecting together small hubs like a node network. But I feel that a truely open world would be wag too dull as a sonic game. Due to how sparse the world would have to be.

The series has and needs to continue to focus on tightly designed obstacle courses akin to those in generations. While the levels are linear. You still have options and multiple paths. Sky sanctuary and seaside hill is the epitome of 3d sonic level design. And they are really fun repayable levels.

 

[Arc Christelle]

I'm not sure how an open open world sonic game would really work. I get the feeling you would end up with large empty areas where there is very little gameplay that actually takes place.and to introduce fun gameplay you need to place lots of motif's which then has the problem of cluttering the game world making it difficult to traverse. I could see an "open world" done as a series of paths connecting together small hubs like a node network. But I feel that a truely open world would be wag too dull as a sonic game. Due to how sparse the world would have to be.

The series has and needs to continue to focus on tightly designed obstacle courses akin to those in generations. While the levels are linear. You still have options and multiple paths. Sky sanctuary and seaside hill is the epitome of 3d sonic level design. And they are really fun repayable levels.

I'm telling you now, a series of routes and alternative paths connected to various hubs is damn near the only way to make this fun and deliver an experience that only Sonic can. But, I really want to hear everyone's idea on how to make it because of two things.

1. I want them to realize its not the great idea they believe it to be.
2. Spoiler

   I want someone to prove me wrong.

 

[hodgy100]

I'm telling you now, a series of routes and alternative paths connected to various hubs is damn near the only way to make this fun and deliver an experience that only Sonic can. But, I really want to hear everyone's idea on how to make it because of two things.

1. I want them to realize its not the great idea they believe it to be.
2. Spoiler

   I want someone to prove me wrong.

If someone can prove us wrong then thats great. Thing is as your speed increases your effective fov decreases as the game world and objects at the sides of your view become impossible to keep track of which means that a sonic game with open level design will have to be either slower or have less obsticles. Making it slower strips away sonics uniqueness and making the open world less dense also makes it boring. :/

 

[Timeaisis]

http://youtu.be/dte7KJ_F5b8

Oh, cool, some new Sonic Boom DLC.

 

[Arc Christelle]

If someone can prove us wrong then thats great. Thing is as your speed increases your effective fov decreases as the game world and objects at the sides of your view become impossible to keep track of which means that a sonic game with open level design will have to be either slower or have less obsticles. Making it slower strips away sonics uniqueness and making the open world less dense also makes it boring. :/

I totally agree. One of Sonic's strength's is that adrenaline rush that's hard to find anywhere outside of a P* game.

Which brings up another issue I have with some of the arguments here: The infamous "Sonic was never about speed." argument. If we were to slow him down, and make every stage damn near Marble Garden Zone, will people really enjoy that? Is that really a good game? A good Sonic game? The addiction of perfection and mastery is one of the best elements of Sonic, open world ruins that. Although it's possible to have both, with the aforementioned concept we had, by ranking the track they complete.

Even looking at the Sonic World from Sonic Jam, I feel mixed, although I definitely can tell that it was the foundation for Sonic Adventure, it's the prime example why backtracking to that would be unnecessary, we've already surpassed it.

http://youtu.be/dte7KJ_F5b8

I think most people should see this as a fine example of something to avoid creating.

 

[Yoshi]

On the contrary, it would ruin Sonic. Sonic needs high speed and twitch reactions, that absolutely does not mesh well with open levels. If you want somewhat open levels in a Sonic game, play Sonic Boom on Wii U. You will hate the game though.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I like the Goron mechanic in Majora's mask, I want a Sonic who is quick and nimble, then have a run button and then a shoulder button press to go into ball mode which can go super fast. There can be a speed meter you fill up with rings

 

[brett2]

They need to go back to the drawing board with his 3D movement. I think there needs to be a sense of momentum and actual physics to his character, which a more open world (full of hills and valleys, ditches, and ravines) might take advantage of. Because right now, what they've got is not really working.

You nailed it. People always like to say Sonic = speed but really the classic Sonic games were a breakthrough because of momentum and physics. Jumping down a halfpipe and having your momentum take you down a winding hill was the game changer from Mario and Mega Man, not just pure speed.

 

[ugh_the_boot]

Used to love the sonic games but really think they should've killed the character after the megadrive versions.

So no.

 

[Freshmaker]

I recently saw the restored beta version of Windy Hill from Sonic Adventure 1, and noticed how much less "rollercoaster" like it was compared to the final, and what I generally associate with 3D Sonic stages.

There are also the various fan made 3D Sonic engines that attempt to return physics to the series and feature more open test levels with various ramps and pipes scattered around.

Would you prefer if 3D Sonic switched from a "rollercoaster" to a "skatepark"?

(Obviously besides the level design, removal of boost, less boost pads, and real physics would be included as well)

The way Sonic's typically designed, two main paths with an emphasis on completing the levels as quickly as possible after you learn the layouts, I have a hard time seeign how an open world Sonic would be better.

Really, Nights was probably the best 3d Sonic game we got. (Even though you're flying instead of running.) It retains all the primary elements of the 2d Sonics without getting bogged down with extra characters, shifting level focus, forcing you into endless runner mode etc.

 

[Arc Christelle]

I like the Goron mechanic in Majora's mask, I want a Sonic who is quick and nimble, then have a run button and then a shoulder button press to go into ball mode which can go super fast. There can be a speed meter you fill up with rings

Spoiler

Lost World

You nailed it. People always like to say Sonic = speed but really the classic Sonic games were a breakthrough because of momentum and physics. Jumping down a halfpipe and having your momentum take you down a winding hill was the game changer from Mario and Mega Man, not just pure speed.

Made sense for its time and the combination of design and the fact that it was 2D. It's really not the same in 3D, physics and momentum matters but not in the same way.

Used to love the sonic games but really think they should've killed the character after the megadrive versions.

So no.

I think in every Sonic Thread there should be a wall of shame in the OP with posts like this.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Remember how Mario Sunshine had those challenge levels. .. did any of the 3d Sonic games try that, with him balled up. .. like Monkey Ball?

 

[thewhitehawk]

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying the way to make a 3D Sonic game is basically backtrack to 2D with an optional 3rd axis?

I'm not saying it's the only way, but it's the best way we currently know of that allows the game to preserve the most aspects that we appreciated from the classic games and honestly I'm a bit skeptical there will be a better way to make a Sonic game in the short-run unless we gain new input methods which facilitate accurate 3D control in fast environments without limiting gameplay options.

Full 3D movement is something that lends itself well to the 3D Mario Games, Banjo Kazooie and other similar games, but in the case of Sonic it just lends itself very poorly to fast-paced momentum-based platforming because we simply don't have accurate enough controls and game cameras tend to exhibit erratic behaviour that can greatly worsen the experience in fast-paced 3D games. Just think of Ninja Gaiden's camera, DMC... or just compare Sonic Adventure to Sonic Generations. It's a technical issue we have improved but not perfected yet.

The fastest parts of Sonic 3D games are either on literal rails or invisible ones and they are the only parts which include some of the things we consider staples of the Sonic franchise, like loops and winds. While you can argue that in 2D Sonic games it wasn't very different when you were going through fast sections, in those you knew that at any point you had control of the character, just not his momentum, and in 3D Sonic games you have neither, the game removes that control and it becomes visually impressive but completely detached experience.

With a more limited movement axis (but still giving players to fully move in any direction if they so wish) you can create much more complex 3D environments that can be traversed at high speeds and in more diverse manners while leaving the camera in a predictable position and allowing players to enjoy themselves rather than working against them. Right now, in my opinion, and for 3D Sonic games, I think it is by far the best solution.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Remember how Mario Sunshine had those challenge levels. .. did any of the 3d Sonic games try that, with him balled up. .. like Monkey Ball?

....Do you really want that? Sounds like filler.

I'm not saying it's the only way, but it's the best way we currently know of that allows the game to preserve the most aspects that we appreciated from the classic games and honestly I'm a bit skeptical there will be a better way to make a Sonic game in the short-run unless we gain new input methods which facilitate accurate 3D control in fast environments without limiting gameplay options.

Full 3D movement is something that lends itself well to the 3D Mario Games, Banjo Kazooie and other similar games, but in the case of Sonic it just lends itself very poorly to fast-paced momentum-based platforming because we simply don't have accurate enough controls and game cameras tend to exhibit erratic behaviour that can greatly worsen the experience in fast-paced 3D games. Just think of Ninja Gaiden's camera, DMC... or just compare Sonic Adventure to Sonic Generations. It's a technical issue we have improved but not perfected yet.

The fastest parts of Sonic 3D games are either on literal rails or invisible ones and they are the only parts which include some of the things we consider staples of the Sonic franchise, like loops and winds. While you can argue that in 2D Sonic games it wasn't very different when you were going through fast sections, in those you knew that at any point you had control of the character, just not his momentum, and in 3D Sonic games you have neither, the game removes that control and it becomes visually impressive but completely detached experience.

With a more limited movement axis (but still giving players to fully move in any direction if they so wish) you can create much more complex 3D environments that can be traversed at high speeds and in more diverse manners while leaving the camera in a predictable position and allowing players to enjoy themselves rather than working against them. Right now, in my opinion, and for 3D Sonic games, I think it is by far the best solution.

Hey can you give me a reference of that? Like a game that does that so I can picture it?

And anyone mind critiquing this video? Basically I want people to look at the video and tell me what they feel is flawed about the Unleashed Daytime style. The runs are done without boosting by the way.

Perhaps some of you would like a Sonic game like this?

 

[Zekes!]

I was thinking they spend too much time worrying about stages. problem has always revolved with how Sonic moves in a 3D environment. They need to go back and make those physics fun in a 3D world and then build the worlds around his moveset.

There's just something "off" about his movement, and it started with Adventure. When you go really fast and try to turn, he jutters a bit, gets really fidgety and usually abruptly stops or gets stuck on something in the level.

So it's the character, not the stages that have been the problem. Even in Generations (the best sonic game since 3 and knuckles) he still feels off in 3D. his jumping is floaty. you'll go from sonic speed to Mario sunshine speed just by jumping.

Yeah, I think they need to go to the Super Mario 64 route and just focus on making Sonic fun to control, then build the game around that.

Maybe slow him down a touch as well.

 

[Pizza]

Sunset Overdrive looked like it had speed, grinding on rails, cool combat, and open world down to a fun-looking formula, so an open world sonic like that could be rad!


Just keep it nowhere near Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic Lost World levels of terrible, please. Both of those had so much promise! Even shadow with guns

Spoiler

especially shadow with guns

 

[Elija2]

Jet Set Radio Future comes really close to how I think a 3D Sonic game should feel. The controls in JSRF lend themselves to fast-paced platforming better than any 3D Sonic game. The only problem is that the game itself doesn't focus as much on challenging platforming as it should have. Just watch these videos to get a good idea.

SEGA should have given 3D Sonic to Smilebit instead of killing them off.

 

[Freshmaker]

Simple. Have various collectibles to find in each open stage. Explore the stage and do various chellenges to gain access to some sort of collectible. When you collect enough it opens up a door in the level leading to a boss fight or special stage. Beat that to progress to the next open stage.

So like the boring Knuckles levels in Sonic Adventure?

 

[Arc Christelle]

Jet Set Radio Future comes really close to how I think a 3D Sonic game should feel. The controls in JSRF lend themselves to fast-paced platforming better than any 3D Sonic game. The only problem is that the game itself doesn't focus as much on challenging platforming as it should have. Just watch these videos to get a good idea.

SEGA should have given 3D Sonic to Smilebit instead of killing them off.

Cool runs, all that grinding reminded me of Sonic Heroes.